Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 9/6/2002 10:24:34 PM EDT
Have any of you heard about this one?? A teacher used this word in class and now people are in an uproar!!! "Nig-ard (nig'erd) [b]n[/b][prob
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:25:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:31:06 PM EDT
Was she african? Why was she and her son offended?Didn't they have the words meaning explained to them? Or maybe that doesn't matter.Are they the sorta people who just decide they're offended whether its justified of not?
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:33:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Here we go again. LOL
View Quote
CRAP I should have run a search first. That thread was locked too. ooopsie. Well try not to get raunchy here guys, maybe we can figure this out instead of pissing off the mods. But just in case ... IBTL!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:41:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By byron2112: Was she african? Why was she and her son offended?Didn't they have the words meaning explained to them? Or maybe that doesn't matter.Are they the sorta people who just decide they're offended whether its justified of not?
View Quote
Yes she is an African American and Yes they did get the proper meaning of the word explained to them... ...HOWEVER Her words were something like this "I dont care what the word means, All I know is that it offended me and that is all that matters" OK... ummmm the word "Potato" offends me and I will sue ANY OF YOU that use it.
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:43:09 PM EDT
I was going to buy some NIW mags, but I niggardly saved a few bucks and bought 50% mags. TS [X]
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:45:50 PM EDT
Of course if you mean miserly or being a miser,somebody could take offense with that,as it could be taken as being frugal. And that is the F-word. When we went to a garage sale my 78 year old mother saw the price on a specific item wanted to Jew him down,I had to tell her nix on that we would have to barter with him or horse trade him into submission. So there it is just a choice of words that mean just the same,but are more PC. I would Think the big N-word would be none employed,but not so! So anyway there are many ways to say the same thing,and not to be offensive to anyone. Shall we try? Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:52:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bobbyjack: So anyway there are many ways to say the same thing,and not to be offensive to anyone. Shall we try? Bob [:D]
View Quote
No.
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:54:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:56:29 PM EDT
MadMatt....DITTO. TS [X]
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:59:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bobbyjack: I would Think the big N-word would be none employed,but not so! So anyway there are many ways to say the same thing,and not to be offensive to anyone. Shall we try? Bob [:D]
View Quote
PC is what is getting our country into a bigger mess than we need to be. If the teacher used a word that was a LEGITAMITE word and the meaning of it is NO WAY related to what she is interpereting, why the hell does she have to write an apology letter?? The teacher didn't do anything wrong. What is sad is that what we think and what we say are two different things. When people look at me and say "He is 'husky' or 'slightly obese' or 'calorically enhanced'" I say bullshit! they are thinking "Holy crap he is a fat ass" I am tired of the PC BS that is a "PLAGUE" of our lifetime. Say what you are thinking and if someone doesnt like what you say, They have to deal with it! George Carlin did a great piece whereas he described the mental affects of war on a human. Where he said in WW2 they called it "Shell Shock" up to the Vietnam War where they made the condition more PC "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" Bet if they kept the term SHELL SHOCK the vietnam vets would have gotten the treatment they deserved. DID I GO OFF ON A TANGENT HERE???
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 10:59:46 PM EDT
To bad she couldn't have made her point with "Cracker" "Honky" "Whitey" or any other socially acceptable word
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:04:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TigerStripe: MadMatt....DITTO. TS [X]
View Quote
Well then may I suggest the movie ,. Brother where art thou! Got some really good special interest groups in it! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:06:54 PM EDT
This type of shit doesn't suprise me. I've seen it over and over again. Slowly, through the years, it's made me callus and deaf to almost all minority complaints.
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:13:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2002 11:15:14 PM EDT by DrFrige]
Oh yeah next time you get to watch Chris Rock and his stand up routine, Picture a white guy like Andrew Dice Clay up there and instead of the derogotory anti-white jokes, replace words "whitey" or "cracker" with any rascist slur that offends people of the African American persuasion. He would be forced to apologize and ousted from showbiz forever. Edited to say: BTW I am not a racist, just an observationist.
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:17:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By headspace: To bad she couldn't have made her point with "Cracker" "Honky" "Whitey" or any other socially acceptable word
View Quote
The term "cracker" is offensive. They should be called salted crispy bread wafers.
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:27:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Originally Posted By bobbyjack: I would Think the big N-word would be none employed,but not so! So anyway there are many ways to say the same thing,and not to be offensive to anyone. Shall we try? Bob [:D]
View Quote
PC is what is getting our country into a bigger mess than we need to be. If the teacher used a word that was a LEGITAMITE word and the meaning of it is NO WAY related to what she is interpereting, why the hell does she have to write an apology letter?? The teacher didn't do anything wrong. What is sad is that what we think and what we say are two different things. When people look at me and say "He is 'husky' or 'slightly obese' or 'calorically enhanced'" I say bullshit! they are thinking "Holy crap he is a fat ass" I am tired of the PC BS that is a "PLAGUE" of our lifetime. Say what you are thinking and if someone doesnt like what you say, They have to deal with it! George Carlin did a great piece whereas he described the mental affects of war on a human. Where he said in WW2 they called it "Shell Shock" up to the Vietnam War where they made the condition more PC "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" Bet if they kept the term SHELL SHOCK the vietnam vets would have gotten the treatment they deserved. DID I GO OFF ON A TANGENT HERE???
View Quote
DEfridge wouldn't you rather hear that you were verticaly challenged than short,big boned as opossed to obese? Recieding hair-line as bald,average as opossed to ugly? Looks are definatly in the eye of the beholder,but do you have to say the more you see me the more you will like me? PC only means that you have matured beyond the age of a small child(whom is forgiven for saying whatever comes into their young mind with-out conecting their mouths to their minds). So no you are responsible for what you say and the dammage done! Around your friends you can be PIC ,but around others it is good to remember the golden rule! God is watching us from a distance(doesn't mean he's not watching). So PC is Okay,just doing the right thing doesn't need any higher power other than that that just flows within you! And I hope you are out of class now,got your PHD and are teaching others by now! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:32:45 PM EDT
IBTL Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:39:46 PM EDT
Bobby, you are missing the point. Of course no one should go out of their way to offend another, but this is a word that is not offensive. What your grams did was use and ethnic slur. Niggardly has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. If someone is offended by it, it is because they are stupid. Stupidity should not be rewarded or encouraged. If we start holding people to account for others feelings, there can be no justice. How do I know what may offend. The teacher did exactly what she was supposed to do and got punished for it. No justice. Everything in this country is pandering to the lowest common denominator. Hell, lets pass more gun control because that makes everyone FEEL better. Damn.
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:48:21 PM EDT
DrFrige, POTATO!
Link Posted: 9/6/2002 11:49:16 PM EDT
Wasn't there a case a few years ago that went like this? Professor (or biologist, or some other sciencey-type) outlined the result of his research into comparing athletic ability between the various subraces of H. Sapiens. Research showed that the Negroes had a greater tendency toward athletic performance, and actually required LESS conditioning and training than other races (caucasians and asians, mainly.) For actually finding out that Blacks have an ADVANTAGE, he was censured, forced to apologise, and threatened with revocation of tenure. Explain to me the source of the insult here - if someone told me I had a racial advantage, I'd be pleased! As long as jackasses like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson continue to set the Blacks as something different from everyone else and continue their attempt at "Black supremacy," we will never see racial equality on a scale greater than small communities... FFZ
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:03:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:10:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ratters: Bobby, you are missing the point. Of course no one should go out of their way to offend another, but this is a word that is not offensive. What your grams did was use and ethnic slur. Niggardly has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. If someone is offended by it, it is because they are stupid. Stupidity should not be rewarded or encouraged. If we start holding people to account for others feelings, there can be no justice. How do I know what may offend. The teacher did exactly what she was supposed to do and got punished for it. No justice. Everything in this country is pandering to the lowest common denominator. Hell, lets pass more gun control because that makes everyone FEEL better. Damn.
View Quote
The word that we are not saying came from the spannish or mexican,myian lauguage meaning BLACK, you can be as candid as you like! I know what I feel about all of this,and will gladly speak my mind about this(but not in the house of the Avilas) I got E-Mail saying I accused another of sounding like KKK, well was not entirely my goal,but if the shoe fits! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:29:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2002 12:34:43 AM EDT by duncan]
As an employment law attorney who practices a lot of labor law, I can tell you they should fire her for poor judgment. While those types of words may be acceptable at the college level in sociology, politics, history and the like, those words are not suitable for discussion before that time. That school teacher is not fit to teach at a public school were a diversity exists in the school, on the Board, and in the community. Here's an idea. If your mother or father is a school teacher, ask them what they think about the whole sitaution. And give them the entire run down. I think they will be shocked that a teacher would say that even in the most clinical intellectual way. Those kids just weren't ready. Most boards would have term'd her right away. Can she be trusted to teach minority students? Don't think so! She is lucky. An apology is nothing. But please don't think her "slip" can be minimalized. While the majority of America has degraded themselves, right and wrong are clearly defined in my world.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:31:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bobbyjack: The word that we are not saying came from the spannish or mexican,myian lauguage meaning BLACK, you can be as candid as you like! quote] Once again, that word has to do with the color of someone's skin. Niggardly has no such association. I know what you are saying, and I agree to a point, but the teacher did nothing offensive but teach vocabulary. Duncan, please read my previous post. The teacher did nothing wrong. Because the word is misinterpreted does not make her wrong. It is not an offesive word. Because people are stupid and take offense to it out of ignorance does not mean she should be punished and the ignorance rewarded. I am a teacher of an extremely diverse population, and when they misunderstand something, it is my job to bring them to understanding, not to encourage further misunderstanding. That is what critical thinking is.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:35:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By duncan: As an employment law attorney who practices a lot of labor law, I can tell you they should fire her for poor judgment. She is not fit to teach at a public school were a diversity exists in the school, on the Board, and in the community. Most boards would have term'd her right away. Can she be trusted to teach minority students? She is lucky. An apology is nothing. But please don't think her "slip" can be minimalized. While the majority of America has degraded themselves, right and wrong are clearly defined in my world.
View Quote
Dude, I hope you are joking. Or at least you started the first post with "I don't know much about this story". That should be a clue. [;)]
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:35:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2002 12:37:40 AM EDT by BenDover]
Leaving the political correctness argument aside for a moment, I have a maxim, "You're never gonna get rid of the ignorant." How many people do you think actually agree with this woman once they are taught the proper usage and history of the word? How many BLACKS think this is stupid? Care to guess? The REAL problem is the SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION. These people are supposed to be representating acadamic standards and knowledge. These are supposed to be EDUCATED people. I'm not trying to initiate an uninformed assault on them now with my questions. I really would be interested in learning why they made the decision. Did they just decide that it wasn't worth trying to teach people the difference? Maybe cut their losses and run? Did they not give a crap? Did they decide that hanging the teacher out to dry publicly was less risk than mustering a costly fight? Or worse yet, are the administrators in agreement with this woman? This is where the MEDIA works it's trickery. Remember something. The media lives for side show freaks. This is where you can see their agenda - to create a fire where there's a spark. It sells advertising. You wouldn't have even paid attention to this "news" event if you didn't weren't already sucked in by their psychological spin. Nuclear explosions come from such fiendish, manipulative withhold of the truth. Now, take political correctness. (BTW [b]bobbyjack[/b]: interesting comments) If you passed this ignorant woman in the shopping mall, chances are the majority of the members of this site (educated, articulate, logical) would likely not engage in a shouting match with her. It's a waste of time. You will grit your teeth under your breath and walk on bye. There is always gonna be ignorant ones everywhere and even in the "intelligent and educated crowd". So I won't be surprised when a few will pipe up here. But for the majority of us, is this political correctness on our part? No, it's social graciousness. We have more self respect than to engage in a verbal conflict with an obviously uneducated, ignorant stranger. I believe there is a lot of emotional reaction to the concept of political correctness. People have reviled the very notion, and they well should. Being consumed with the laziness of convenience, our society has developed a love affair with popular hatred. The mediochre (or shall I say apathetic) masses will react on their reflex of defensive anger. It's easier than taking the time to learn all the facts. Let's all just rant and drive our SUVs like killing machines. We're just a bunch of pissed off people on this planet. As a result, I have witnessed people's self-respect being compromised more and more. People lash out in a bursting fracture of emotion. Dignity has gone the way of the wind. Alas, I fear dignity and self-respect will befall the same fates as the word 'niggardly' and the concept of rational thought. Common courtesies will be consumed. Anything which separates us from that of wild beasts will be devoured by the voracious and growing appetite of reactionary hatred. For whatever their reasons, many individuals are going to be nothing greater than ignorant. The scary part is that enough of them have figured out just how many of us despise their ignorance. They are on the defensive attack with their lashing out. Someone will take this thread down (10:1 odds here will happen) by name calling or other ignorant thought process like bigotry or egocentrism.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:36:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:39:31 AM EDT
Using words the kids or their parents aren't ready for is dangerous for a teacher's career. And this kind of situation has ended in the teacher's termination in many school districts. Look at your collective bargaining agreement and review the harassment and classroom conduct policies. I'm sure your union steward or representative would prefer you not press the issue. Intellecutally correct or not. You could still lose your job and be right!
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:40:47 AM EDT
Ben- Well said. Especially for so late at night. [:)]
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:42:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By duncan: Using words the kids or their parents aren't ready for is dangerous for a teacher's career. And this kind of situation has ended in the teacher's termination in many school districts. Look at your collective bargaining agreement and review the harassment and classroom conduct policies. I'm sure your union steward or representative would prefer you not press the issue. Intellecutally correct or not. You could still lose your job and be right!
View Quote
Hence the problem. [:)]
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:43:42 AM EDT
Erm Duncan, You must suck as a lawyer. Go study up on the Etymology of the word 'Niggardly'. It is Old English. Probably of Scandinavian (aka Viking) origin. It means stingy. niggard - 14c., nygard, from Old Norse hnøggr "stingy" The word has jackshiznit to do with race, ignorant people, even lawyers, notwithstanding. If we are to the point as a society where the hearer can assign whatever the frick meanign they want to to a word and get upset about it we are in sad shape.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:44:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:45:20 AM EDT
While the roots of niggardly maybe be innocous, if you were black, you'd be offended. And if you don't think it's offensive, I dare you to go to the black side of town, find a bunch of black guys on the basketball court, and use that word. You will quickly understand perception. Or why don't you go to church and shout out that word. I'm sure your pastor would love it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:47:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:48:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2002 12:52:25 AM EDT by BenDover]
duncan, are you telling us that our courts are ordering and enforcing ignorance? Such a "new" concept. [making another cheese cracker] I am shocked by this revelation. With THIS word, you can only be offended if you are truly ignorant. Until it's removed from every known dictionary or it's definition changed, it has nothing to do with an offensiveness. In no way does it assign identity. It's not even a noun.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:49:54 AM EDT
silence, I'm not going to stoop to the floor on that comment. I've won cases very much like this. I've represented two school districts in Ohio and Washington where we terminated teachers for fitness issues. It's a matter of perception and bad taste.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:52:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:53:58 AM EDT
hmm? 'cases very much like this' You mean you have won cases against people who used the word niggardly? Are you saying you are an expert on perception and bad taste?
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:54:32 AM EDT
I think the difficulty is that as a lawyer, Duncan, you are describing a problem with our society. We are just saying that it [i]is[/i] a problem. Pragmatics vs. philosophy.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:56:08 AM EDT
silence? I don't care if you won or not. You ARGUED that someone's perception overrides an absolute fact. "I feel that the definition to the word niggardly isn't what is printed in the dictionary and accepted as standard." Of course you were being paid to do it in contradction to all logical thought. Lawyer jokes anyone? Come on. It's ignorant. It's void of anything rational, logical, or factual. I hope the opposition wins on appeal. :P
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:58:03 AM EDT
I have. How can you be a public servant and use a word that is racically charged? You may not agree. But 95 percent of the blacks would be offended. And if you could offend so many, it's at least unwise. I liken this to a teacher in one of my cases, conducting out of curriculm sexual education a grade out of schedule. Do you want your kids learning about penises (sp?), vaginas, and intercourse then? Fact of life, intellectually correct. But socially inappropriate. Many lawful words can get you into serious professional and social trouble.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 12:59:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By duncan: silence, I'm not going to stoop to the floor on that comment. I've won cases very much like this. I've represented two school districts in Ohio and Washington where we terminated teachers for fitness issues. It's a matter of perception and bad taste.
View Quote
Respond to me and BenDover then. The blacks know the truth. Why do they insist on clinging to an erroneous perception?
View Quote
Generalizing all blacks in this situation is wrong. Nor do "they" cling to an erroneous perception. Ignorance knows no color. Knowledge is equally colorblind.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:00:59 AM EDT
don't stop now bendover. You've shown you can argue. Let's talk ethics then. From a stakeholder theory, should she have used the word?
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:01:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:02:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By duncan: don't stop now bendover. You've shown you can argue. Let's talk ethics then. From a stakeholder theory, should she have used the word?
View Quote
Better mad with the rest of the world than wise alone. So say politicians. If all are so, one is no worse off than the rest, whereas solitary wisdom passes for folly. So important is it to sail with the stream. The greatest wisdom often consists of ignorance, or the pretense of it. One has to live with others, and others are mostly ignorant. 'To live entirely alone one must be very like a god or quite like a wild beast,' But I would turn the aphorism by saying: Better be wise with the many than a fool all alone. There be some too who seek to be original by chasing chimeras. - Balthasar Gracian
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:03:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2002 1:21:04 AM EDT by TigerStripe]
Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Originally Posted By TigerStripe: MadMatt....DITTO. TS [X]
View Quote
Well then may I suggest the movie ,. Brother where art thou! Got some really good special interest groups in it!Bob[:D]
View Quote
You say I thought you were saying I was KKK, what other "special interest" groups are in the movie??? Bob: The word that we are not saying came from the spannish or mexican,myian lauguage meaning BLACK, you can be as candid as you like! Bob [:D]
View Quote
The language to which you refer is Spanish. The word is negro, meaning black. Southerners got lazy with the pronunciation and it ended up nigger. There is no such thing as Mexican language. There is Mayan with over a dozen dialects. [X] TS [X]
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:04:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2002 1:22:41 AM EDT by BenDover]
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: The blacks in question know the truth. Why do they (the blacks in question) insist on clinging to an erroneous perception?
View Quote
"They" are ignorant on the inside before they gradually turn black as you move out from the center. If anyone comes up with a true understanding of what motivates ignorance, they will become richer than Bill Gates selling the cure. EDITED TO CLARIFY: a person's ignorance is associated with their identity/soul/being on the inside. It makes no difference what color the "being" is wrapped in. White, black, yellow, green. Ignorance isn't a racial issue.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:16:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2002 1:17:40 AM EDT by BenDover]
duncan, don't assume my Gracian quote indicates my agreement with this. It IS reality in this day and age, but it's wrong. I will never compromise my principles in such a fashion. That's why we do have a 1st Amendment. Court decisions should be based on FACTS. The FACTS are, you cannot even contextually USE the word niggardly to depict a racial slur. If someone's emotions are negatively impacted through their own ignorance to the English language, that is their own fault. Ignorance is no excuse from the law (or fact). Arguing this in a court based on the tangent of perception is unethically manipulating the system to achieve personal gain. You create ill-gotten gains against reason.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:39:46 AM EDT
I think that at least some of the disagreement here might be settled if we knew the context in which the word was used, which apparently, we don't. Unless I missed it somewhere. For example, if this was a group of first graders who had, up until then, been exposed to nothing more complex than "Jonny has a blue ball" (and I guess that makes two of us) and the teacher suddenly inserts "Sally is niggardly because she won't share", then I feel the case could be made strongly that that was inappropriate. However, if this was a group of tenth graders who had, as a part of their daily lessons, or ordinarily had, new words introduced to them for the purpose of edification, then I think it could be easily defended. To clarify my own position, I understand and generally agree with the argument that this is the meaning of the word and it is not racially derogatory, end of story. However, in the light of all things being contextual (especially in a courtroom) I feel that Duncan has some valid points which deserve at least consideration if not agreement. But as far as the mother's apparent argument for the defence of her position...she should hire Duncan. Her lack of eloquence is staggering.
Link Posted: 9/7/2002 1:47:16 AM EDT
Gracian??? Good Lord man, three dictionaries (including an online one) and I can't find it. Meaning? BTW..I'm a tenth grader who needs to be edified daily.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top