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Posted: 9/5/2002 12:32:54 PM EDT
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62152,00.html[/url] Second pic, the guy on the right. Is that an M4 variant? The handguard looks awfully thin though? And how short is that barrel? It almost looks like a paintball gun, lol. Also - Delta or Secret Service?
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 12:41:06 PM EDT
It appears to be an M4 variant with a 10.5 or 11 inch barrel. It has a RAS by Knights' for handguards and an AIMPOINT scope.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 1:10:55 PM EDT
It's definitely Delta. A Secret Service guy would be wearing a tie and have on sun glasses, not to mentioned starched, white boxer shorts.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 1:21:01 PM EDT
Notice even in a very dangerous situation, the operator has his "Finger off of the Trigger". He must have took an NRA Firearms safety class eh...... I believe that is an M4 variant with a 10.5 inch barrell. Most likely Delta, Dont think the haircut and facial hair falls into military regs. Besides to really confirm we would need to see his Oakly sunglasses!
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 2:07:09 PM EDT
Marvl is right on, if it was a secret service (SS) guy, he wouldn't have a weapon, he'd just be ready to bite an ear off . . . then scribble some racial slurs on a nearby wall . . . [devil]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 2:11:49 PM EDT
There are better pics under the "Uppers, barrels, etc." section.. Not Delta.. SEALs.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 2:14:34 PM EDT
M4? Look at the butt stock, or lack there of.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 2:15:56 PM EDT
What do they mean "running for cover"? That guy is scanning for targets!
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 2:20:01 PM EDT
Not an M4, cause the whole point of an M4 is the 14.5 inch barrel with the grenade launcher cut-out. Looks likely to be a Colt M733 Commando with KAC RAS and a Red Dot.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 2:37:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 2:39:00 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
I'm thinking some kinda of HK thinga ma giggy. Take the photo and enhance it. There is no butt stock/buffer tube. After I enhanced it it looks like a pistol cal, short, maybe 10 or 20 round magazine. Retractable butt stock. Deffinately not a M-16 based weapon.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 2:41:07 PM EDT
hopefully it is NOT a 5.56 with that short of a barrel. unless you use rounds optimizedfor short barrels, the round will not fragment, pissing away all of the usefullness of the round. just ask a delta somali vet.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 2:49:13 PM EDT
Comment on the operator, not the weapon: I'd guess Delta as well, not SEALs. After just finishing "Inside Delta Force" this is exactly the kind of job Delta has been tasked to do in the past and they know exactly how to do it. In all the written-by-a-former-SEAL books I've read, I dont remember too many stories of diplomatic protection or bodyguarding by the SEALs. I could also be completely wrong... My (somewhat "informed") armchair opinion. --ZERO
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:04:09 PM EDT
Those are M4A1 lowers with 10.5" flattop uppers, cut carry handle for rear sight, Aimpoint dot sight, "Enhanced cheek weld" stock (collapsed), and KAC RIS... And I should qualify and say that like Mr. Zero, I'm just offering an armchair opinion and not trying to sound like a know-it-all.. :)
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:05:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:25:40 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: I'm thinking some kinda of HK thinga ma giggy. Take the photo and enhance it. There is no butt stock/buffer tube. After I enhanced it it looks like a pistol cal, short, maybe 10 or 20 round magazine. Retractable butt stock. Deffinately not a M-16 based weapon.
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[left][img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253312.topix_afghanistan_karzai_knd106.jpg[/img][/left] [right][img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031243332.topix_afghanistan_karzai_assasination_attempt_knd104.jpg[/img][/right] Sorry but that is no HK there. Its the same guy from a better angle. For one thing that is clearly a AR front sight and front gas block-why would a HK anything have a AR type gas block? Why would a pistol cal anything have a gas block? And it is blurry but it does look like a 30rnd AR mag sticking out of it too.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:10:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:14:46 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By serpico40: hopefully it is NOT a 5.56 with that short of a barrel. unless you use rounds optimizedfor short barrels, the round will not fragment, pissing away all of the usefullness of the round. just ask a delta somali vet.
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Apparently those reports were not entirely accurate... [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=139293[/url]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:11:16 PM EDT
Hey there's a prisoner. Thought he got shot dead. Pan left <<<<---- [img]http://www.foxnews.com/images/65066/7_22_090502_karzai_bodyguards.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:13:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:16:09 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
ArmdLbrl Go to the photo in the story and pull it into your computer, enlarge and brighten. You'll see what I'm talking about. If I could post a pic I would.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:14:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: I'm thinking some kinda of HK thinga ma giggy. Take the photo and enhance it. There is no butt stock/buffer tube. After I enhanced it it looks like a pistol cal, short, maybe 10 or 20 round magazine. Retractable butt stock. Deffinately not a M-16 based weapon.
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[url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253312.topix_afghanistan_karzai_knd106.jpg[/url] Sorry but that is no HK there. Its the same guy from a better angle. For one thing that is clearly a AR front sight and front gas block-why would a HK anything have a AR type gas block? Why would a pistol cal anything have a gas block? And it is blurry but it does look like a 30rnd AR mag sticking out of it too.
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Got anymore pics????
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:16:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MinuteMan3: Notice even in a very dangerous situation, the operator has his "Finger off of the Trigger". He must have took an NRA Firearms safety class eh...... I believe that is an M4 variant with a 10.5 inch barrell. Most likely Delta, Dont think the haircut and facial hair falls into military regs. Besides to really confirm we would need to see his Oakly sunglasses!
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Looks like this guy has Oakley's! [img]http://www.foxnews.com/images/65066/7_21_090502_karzai3.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:16:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller:
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: I'm thinking some kinda of HK thinga ma giggy. Take the photo and enhance it. There is no butt stock/buffer tube. After I enhanced it it looks like a pistol cal, short, maybe 10 or 20 round magazine. Retractable butt stock. Deffinately not a M-16 based weapon.
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[url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253312.topix_afghanistan_karzai_knd106.jpg[/url] Sorry but that is no HK there. Its the same guy from a better angle. For one thing that is clearly a AR front sight and front gas block-why would a HK anything have a AR type gas block? Why would a pistol cal anything have a gas block? And it is blurry but it does look like a 30rnd AR mag sticking out of it too.
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Got anymore pics????
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[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=139293[/url]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:20:04 PM EDT
Who would have thought this would be the scene for an assassination attempt? [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253312.topix_afghanistan_karzai_knd106.jpg[/img] The serenity of a sunflower blowing gently in the wind, when all of a sudden the crackle of small arms fire rings out! Do I get the job at the LA TIMES or what?
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:20:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller:
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: I'm thinking some kinda of HK thinga ma giggy. Take the photo and enhance it. There is no butt stock/buffer tube. After I enhanced it it looks like a pistol cal, short, maybe 10 or 20 round magazine. Retractable butt stock. Deffinately not a M-16 based weapon.
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[url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253312.topix_afghanistan_karzai_knd106.jpg[/url] Sorry but that is no HK there. Its the same guy from a better angle. For one thing that is clearly a AR front sight and front gas block-why would a HK anything have a AR type gas block? Why would a pistol cal anything have a gas block? And it is blurry but it does look like a 30rnd AR mag sticking out of it too.
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Got anymore pics????
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[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=139293[/url]
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Thanks Armd!
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:26:28 PM EDT
The weapon features an upper built for Crane NSW by a vendor. The upper has its own NSN number. The receiver is M4 spec, with M4 feed ramps and a flat top, but it is not a Colt. The barrel is from Diemaco (Canadian) and is hammer forged, chrome-lined and reportedly 10 inches. The rear back up iron sight is a standard detachable carrying handle, cut and nicely finished by the vendor. The rail system is a RIS from KAC without the rail covers and the Aimpoint mount is a KAC straight mount. The stock is the SOCOM M4 stock. JAW
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:31:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:32:22 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
What do you think this MG is? It looks like a 1919 but of course it ain't. Probably a 7.62x51 something. Would an M2 be too big for a copter? [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253062.attacks_military_xms104.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:32:17 PM EDT
does anyone know why both my Adobe PhotoDelux and my MGI PhotoSuit BOTH refuse to open the copies of the pictures I downloaded from Yahoo's news photo wire? I downloaded them to try and edit them to see the rifles better but neither editor will open them now. They are supposed to be just normal JPEG format pics. Do the wire services use somekind of encryption or something?
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:32:25 PM EDT
So there you have it boy's and girl's. Damn.. I love this place! [:D]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:32:43 PM EDT
[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/images/09/05/top.sf.soldier.karzai.ap.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:34:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:35:52 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: does anyone know why both my Adobe PhotoDelux and my MGI PhotoSuit BOTH refuse to open the copies of the pictures I downloaded from Yahoo's news photo wire? I downloaded them to try and edit them to see the rifles better but neither editor will open them now. They are supposed to be just normal JPEG format pics. Do the wire services use somekind of encryption or something?
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My guess. They might have extra characters after the .jpg suffix. Just remove them and it should open. Take a look at the whole filename in explorer. Or just add .jpg to the suffix. It works.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:35:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:50:20 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
Originally Posted By JAW: The weapon features an upper built for Crane NSW by a vendor. The upper has its own NSN number. The receiver is M4 spec, with M4 feed ramps and a flat top, but it is not a Colt. The barrel is from Diemaco (Canadian) and is hammer forged, chrome-lined and reportedly 10 inches. The rear back up iron sight is a standard detachable carrying handle, cut and nicely finished by the vendor. The rail system is a RIS from KAC without the rail covers and the Aimpoint mount is a KAC straight mount. The stock is the SOCOM M4 stock. JAW
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Again, look at the pic in the article and in seadwellers 1st post. There is no rear stock...or even short buffer tube. Edited to add Somebody that can post a pic email me your address and I'll send you what I'm looking at.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:36:44 PM EDT
When called upon to fight, the HH-60H stands ready. The HH-60H armament consists of 2 M-60D/M-240 machine guns or two GAU-17A miniguns. It is capable of carrying M60 or M240 machine guns and 4 Hellfire missiles. With its weapon system growth package, it can pack a GCAL-50 machine gun, 2.75" rockets, Stinger, Maverick or Hellfire missiles.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:37:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:38:30 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
Armd- This is the filename of the helo as I see it in explorer: capt.1031253062.attacks_military_xms104 Guess you do have to add the .jpg suffix.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:40:26 PM EDT
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031243332.topix_afghanistan_karzai_assasination_attempt_knd104.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:41:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: What do you think this MG is? It looks like a 1919 but of course it ain't. Probably a 7.62x51 something. Would an M2 be too big for a copter? [url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253062.attacks_military_xms104.jpg[/url]
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No that is a .50 cal. XM218 is the model number IIRC. I don't know why the different number, it certainly appears from the outside to be nothing more than a new production copy of the flexable aircraft mount version of the M2 Browning used on Army and Navy aircraft and the turrets of PT boats in World War II.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:41:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: What do you think this MG is? It looks like a 1919 but of course it ain't. Probably a 7.62x51 something. Would an M2 be too big for a copter? [url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253062.attacks_military_xms104.jpg[/url]
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The 'Pave Hawk' can be fitted with two .50's, one in each door. [50]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:42:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: What do you think this MG is? It looks like a 1919 but of course it ain't. Probably a 7.62x51 something. Would an M2 be too big for a copter? [url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253062.attacks_military_xms104.jpg[/url]
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No that is a .50 cal. XM218 is the model number IIRC. I don't know why the different number, it certainly appears from the outside to be nothing more than a new production copy of the flexable aircraft mount version of the M2 Browning used on Army and Navy aircraft and the turrets of PT boats in World War II.
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Did you figure out the 128bit encoded capt. pics?
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:43:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:44:12 PM EDT by SeaDweller]
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: What do you think this MG is? It looks like a 1919 but of course it ain't. Probably a 7.62x51 something. Would an M2 be too big for a copter? [url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253062.attacks_military_xms104.jpg[/url]
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The 'Pave Hawk' can be fitted with two .50's, one in each door. [50]
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Cool, but what about a door mounted 20mm? In a helo.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:44:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JAW: The weapon features an upper built for Crane NSW by a vendor. The upper has its own NSN number. The receiver is M4 spec, with M4 feed ramps and a flat top, but it is not a Colt. The barrel is from Diemaco (Canadian) and is hammer forged, chrome-lined and reportedly 10 inches. The rear back up iron sight is a standard detachable carrying handle, cut and nicely finished by the vendor. The rail system is a RIS from KAC without the rail covers and the Aimpoint mount is a KAC straight mount. The stock is the SOCOM M4 stock. JAW
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Well, what are they feeding it? Most 5.56 loads are not supposed to be very effective fired from such short barrels. Or are they just using M193 and just not caring about how it works past 50m?
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:12:21 PM EDT
Oh shit do I feel stupid. Just got a pic redone that shows it's some kind of pad on the stock with a strap that made it look like, to me any who, that there was no butt stock. Sheesh what do I need glasses? Oh, I already have some I just can't find them cause I can't find my glasses.[:I]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:20:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: Oh shit do I feel stupid. Just got a pic redone that shows it's some kind of pad on the stock with a strap that made it look like, to me any who, that there was no butt stock. Sheesh what do I need glasses? Oh, I already have some I just can't find them cause I can't find my glasses.[:I]
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Ahh like a cheek rest? Or perhaps a spare mag holder? That explanes why the stock looked a little odd. I thought it might of been something like the MagPull telestock.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:34:17 PM EDT
Those guys are CIA SPEC OPS..
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:36:37 PM EDT
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253312.topix_afghanistan_karzai_knd106.jpg[/img] Definitely an M-16 family member! Eric The(Happy)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:41:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By coltshorty14: Those guys are CIA SPEC OPS..
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Possible, but not probable. It was publicly announced that US Special Forces would take over bodyguard duites for Karzai some months ago after the first attempt on his life. Everyone has assumed that ment Delta, though naturally the Army has never confirmed that they specificaly were getting the job.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:41:23 PM EDT
There are also reports of Americans from private security forces working over there as well, though I doubt they would be guarding Karzai. Undoubtably US GI there...
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:50:11 PM EDT
I think the big thirty round magazine thingy is a giveaway.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:58:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By captainpooby: I think the big thirty round magazine thingy is a giveaway.
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Well in all fairness, in the first pic posted, the fence was blocking the view of the mag.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 5:02:59 PM EDT
[b]Sea Dweller Wrote: Originally Posted By MinuteMan3: Notice even in a very dangerous situation, the operator has his "Finger off of the Trigger". He must have took an NRA Firearms safety class eh...... I believe that is an M4 variant with a 10.5 inch barrell. Most likely Delta, Dont think the haircut and facial hair falls into military regs. Besides to really confirm we would need to see his Oakly sunglasses! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looks like this guy has Oakley's![/b] Oh that is funny you caught it. You must have seen black hawk down too!
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 5:17:18 PM EDT
Counter Terrorism Ops don't have to stick to ball ammo. You'd be better off with a softpoint round comming out of the short barrel.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 5:17:32 PM EDT
CIA SPEC OPS are considered US special forces. I say this as CIA operators like those vests..
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 5:21:13 PM EDT
I could be wrong but the shirtless guy looks like he has a Beretta, not a Sig. I could be wrong though.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 5:27:19 PM EDT
I like the handle he is holding with the left hand.
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 5:29:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SeaDweller: What do you think this MG is? It looks like a 1919 but of course it ain't. Probably a 7.62x51 something. Would an M2 be too big for a copter? [url]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020905/capt.1031253062.attacks_military_xms104.jpg[/url]
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its an M2, definetly not too big for choppers. Trust me...
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