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Posted: 8/29/2002 3:26:35 PM EDT
It's 2005. Before the presidential election, there are a rash of high profile shootings, including the killing of a famous celebrity and school kids. George W. Bush has lost the presidential race to a extremely liberal opponent. The new president makes a speech to the country announcing that with the support of congress, and whatever it takes, all guns will be banned. A few months after the announcement, the ban actually goes through. The ATF is now charged with confiscation of all guns and begins the obtaining of gun transfer records from FFLs, pulling their licenses and shutting them down. Many state governments start pulling their citizen's conceal carry permits. There is a new tax passed to fund the confiscation and compensation program. You now have 1 month to voluntarily hand over your guns to an ATF drop off location. You'll be compensated for what the government decides your guns are worth. The media reports that polls of the general public show full support of the new gun ban. What would you do? USPC40 [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/line.gif[/img] [url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url] [url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:28:48 PM EDT
That's for me to know and them to find out.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:29:27 PM EDT
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Max%5FPower%2Fgun%2Ejpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:32:58 PM EDT
Can you say, "Vote from the rooftops"? I would have previously sold mine to persons unknown to me with no record of sales. Sorry, guys. Can't help you. Go get a warrant. BTW, If you bury firearms, they will need to be pretty deep or masked by something else as NASA has radar that can penetrate several meters deep. I forsee much civil unrest and "open season and no bag limit" on any agent used to confiscate firearms.....
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:33:12 PM EDT
What guns,,,I have no guns...I was out fishing*, with my guns*, and the boat sank......what you say? officer,really,...you never went fishing with gunz?.... you gotta lure the fishes to the surface with the lures first then SHOOT THEM!
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:35:40 PM EDT
Only one reply makes sence, turn them in, if you can not enjoy them, or use them in a legal way what is the sence of having them buried in a vault where they can do you no good, hurts to say this but they will have won at that point.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:39:26 PM EDT
... I supposed if if was law I'd have to hand them over. ... I wouldn'y want any trouble. [/bullshit]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:39:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:45:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 3:47:14 PM EDT by bountyhunter]
Ok guy comes in your house with a hard on and naked, tells you I am going to butt f*** your wife , you shoot him(he deserved it) and spend 15 f****** years in prison for illegial possesion of a GUN, makes sence or not ???
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:48:51 PM EDT
I'd spend 15 years in prison to protect my family, without a second thought.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:54:53 PM EDT
I’m starting to worry that this could happen even with GW in office. I am coming to the realization that the Left and the Right aren’t all that different, if you grease the palms of both parties anything can happen. These are fragile days folks,make sure you plan for the future![(:)][(:)][(:)][(:)][(:)]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:55:42 PM EDT
[b]"NULL" is the ONLY correct answer in a public forum.[/b]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:56:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 3:57:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Max_Power: I'd spend 15 years in prison to protect my family, without a second thought.
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Most would, me included, but it can be done with a host of other things that keep your butt out of the slammer, and I remind you the federal system has no parole, 15 years means 15 years.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:01:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Only one reply makes sence, turn them in, if you can not enjoy them, or use them in a legal way what is the sence of having them buried in a vault where they can do you no good, hurts to say this but they will have won at that point.
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Lay down and die is your answer? You French?
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:03:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 4:05:22 PM EDT by bountyhunter]
Originally Posted By Maynard:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Only one reply makes sence, turn them in, if you can not enjoy them, or use them in a legal way what is the sence of having them buried in a vault where they can do you no good, hurts to say this but they will have won at that point.
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Any idea who said this? "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"
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Don't get me wrong I would fight to the bitter end on this , it might mean giving up my family and children, but the fact is if it came to this it would be bad, very bad, this may be the only thing that prevents it from happening in the first place, but facts are facts if they made guns illegal do you think it would have a penalty less than that for possession of a machine gun ??? Look what happened to the Aussies on auto gun control, they all rolled over and served them up !
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:04:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Ok guy comes in your house with a hard on and naked, tells you I am going to butt f*** your wife , you shoot him(he deserved it) and spend 15 f****** years in prison for illegial possesion of a GUN, makes sence or not ???
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.....what the hell the wife needs a change of pace,just tip her well!
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:06:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:08:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:12:07 PM EDT
Most will talk the walk, but they won't walk the walk, if it happens they will bitch, whine, cry, then go down and turn them in, it is human nature, I have seen it again and again, and there will be no sympathy for the "terrorist thugs that keep there guns" it will be media and gov. manipulated to insure that.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:13:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 4:20:22 PM EDT by bountyhunter]
Originally Posted By Maynard:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter:
Originally Posted By Maynard:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Only one reply makes sence, turn them in, if you can not enjoy them, or use them in a legal way what is the sence of having them buried in a vault where they can do you no good, hurts to say this but they will have won at that point.
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Any idea who said this? "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"
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Don't get me wrong I would fight to the bitter end on this , it might mean giving up my family and children, but the fact is if it came to this it would be bad, very bad, this may be the only thing that prevents it from happening in the first place, but facts are facts if they made guns illegal do you think it would have a penalty less than that for possession of a machine gun ??? Look what happened to the Aussies on auto gun control, they all rolled over and served them up !
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You didn't answer the question. Do you have any idea who said that?
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Lincoln EDIT TO ADD that was then and this is now it would cut no ice in the possible scenario.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:18:27 PM EDT
I would be just like Patrick Henry, the author of that speech about liberty or death. The lives of too many Americans yet unborn, who will never know freedom the way is was known by us, is sufficient enough of a factor to do whatever it takes to prevent the banning and confiscation of weapons from the citizenry! Y'all remember the Church at Mt Carmel! Well, imagine if you will, 100,000 Mt Carmels. And that would just be the first day in the story of the recreation of America. Eric The(BetterHurryAlong,BeforeIGetTooOldAndFeebl­eToDoAnythingButReloadMyChildren'sMagazines!)­Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:21:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Maynard:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Only one reply makes sence, turn them in, if you can not enjoy them, or use them in a legal way what is the sence of having them buried in a vault where they can do you no good, hurts to say this but they will have won at that point.
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Any idea who said this? "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"
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The same man who spoke your signature line. In the next paragraph. Patrick Henry [url] http://www.webleyweb.com/klh/pathenry.html [/url]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:21:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:25:15 PM EDT
Walking the walk in a very public forum about numerous potential felonies would seem very stupid. Advertising your plan of action is not that way an "insurgent" would work. You would indeed see many incidents of civil unrest and shootings of agencies charged with carrying out a law like this. If you think a few farmers with bolt action rifles cannot make a difference, you need to read more history. Turning my guns in? If it happens, come try to find me. If you're part of the problem, I'll find you first. You'll hear the smack, then the report. Technology can be defeated, ask the Vietnamese, Afgans vs Soviets, British vs Zulu.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:26:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 4:33:08 PM EDT by bountyhunter]
Originally Posted By Maddock:
Originally Posted By Maynard:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Only one reply makes sence, turn them in, if you can not enjoy them, or use them in a legal way what is the sence of having them buried in a vault where they can do you no good, hurts to say this but they will have won at that point.
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Any idea who said this? "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"
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The same man who spoke your signature line. In the next paragraph. Patrick Henry [url] http://www.webleyweb.com/klh/pathenry.html [/url]
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And Sir, that is why I am here taking the heat, to educate myself in such things, and for this I do not rebuke you instead I thank you. So I will let my erroneous answer remain to in effect show that I have indeed learned a thing.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:31:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:36:29 PM EDT
Any idea who said this? "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"[/quote] I believe it was Patrick Henry.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:38:12 PM EDT
Ok, I am hearing you but, there was no computers,SSN, federal police,high tech military, back then and it contributed to the fathers being able to accomplish what they did, it is a new era, with things that they never even dreamed of, that would lead to the demise of anyone attempting such a feat today.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:42:26 PM EDT
Take your answer to this question from one who has lived through the time of state terror! In [u][b]Gulag[/b][/u], Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote: [b]And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, [u]people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand[/u]?[/b] [b]The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt![/b] Now, that is something for all of us to contemplate! They may issue their edicts, they may change our laws, they may even amend the Constitution, but none of those documents give us the Right to Keep and Bear Arms! [b]The Lord Himself does![/b] Eric The(Militant)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:43:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 4:46:51 PM EDT by Eagle_19er]
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Ok, I am hearing you but, there was no computers,SSN, federal police,high tech military, back then and it contributed to the fathers being able to accomplish what they did, it is a new era, with things that they never even dreamed of, that would lead to the demise of anyone attempting such a feat today.
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So take down the infrastructure. I believe there are plenty of people who believe freedom is a gift bought at the ultimate price. Some of those people are my friends... Edited to add: Infrastructure can always be rebuilt, once people become disillusioned with the government for not being able to keep the lights on and the water running, we might just get a couple million converts willing to listen to our side of the story
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:46:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:50:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 4:56:58 PM EDT by bountyhunter]
I don't do this often, but I will in this case and it is said with no small measure of what it means, I have seen the light, right is right, so I thank all for the conversion, to be right is all there is to be .Edit cause of speed replies
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:51:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 5:03:07 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:52:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Ok, I am hearing you but, there was no computers,SSN, federal police,high tech military, back then and it contributed to the fathers being able to accomplish what they did, it is a new era, with things that they never even dreamed of, that would lead to the demise of anyone attempting such a feat today.
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Tyranny is tyranny, [b]bountyhunter[/b], and our Founding Fathers understood that the King's men had all the cards in those days as well. If the [b]Leviathan[/b] is counting on 100% efficiency in rounding up weapons, etc., it will be sadly disappointed. And whatever it fails to collect will be used time and time again to whittle down the forces of terror. You assume that 100% of federal officers will comply, that 100% of state and local officers will comply, and that 100% of the military will likewise comply with their orders. So how many of the 'law enforcement' forces will be kept busy just watching the other members of their own organizations? Hell, Son, the military will be locking up the weapons at night in barracks across this country simply because they know that they cannot possibly control the reactions of freedom loving American citizens in the ranks! And all those computers you say they have at their fingertips? Hacked to the point of uselessness! High-tech weapons? As easy to deal with as a single soldier with a high powered rifle and a few minutes' work and correct shot placement! It is so 'do-able', it's a sheer marvel that it hasn't already occurred! [:D] Eric The(Sinister)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:56:24 PM EDT
I would imagine that quite a few gun manufacturers might have something to say between now and that type of ban. Would anyone (other than you guys) vote for me (for President) if I ran on the following platform? 1) Make NFA laws much easier ...I believe in having NFA stuff regulated, but it would be the as easy as buying a handgun is now. 2) Repeal 1968 GCA 3) Repeal 1986 4) Repeal 1994 5) M16 in every house (every house w/o a criminal presence)...$300 deposit on rifle. 6) Closed borders as far as immigration goes. 7) Flat 8% Fed tax. 9) No new laws on past issues, enforce the ones we have. 10) Irreversible Posse Comitattus. 11) Reduce all government pay...from $26,000/yr on the low end and $65,000/yr on the high end. I could go on and on...
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:58:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 5:04:48 PM EDT by QuietShootr]
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Only one reply makes sence, turn them in, if you can not enjoy them, or use them in a legal way what is the sence of having them buried in a vault where they can do you no good, hurts to say this but they will have won at that point.
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Edited to add: [%(]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 4:59:24 PM EDT
DA, there are so many guns out there that I have heard the anti's say that is why gun control is impossible at this date in time, they may be right.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:04:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: You assume that 100% of federal officers will comply, that 100% of state and local officers will comply, and that 100% of the military will likewise comply with their orders. Eric The(Sinister)Hun[>]:)]
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Who would be the confiscating force? The local law enforcement, military, UN, or some new 3-letter organization? Would you resist to the point of shooting/killing a fellow American that came to your door for your guns? Would some of them wink and say, “no guns here” and move to the next house? I don’t know the answers. But it is chilling to be confronted at your own front door with that decision.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:05:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: Only one reply makes sence, turn them in, if you can not enjoy them, or use them in a legal way what is the sence of having them buried in a vault where they can do you no good, hurts to say this but they will have won at that point.
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Pussy.
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Friend, and we are cause your here on the forum, if you said that to my face I would have ripped your throat out and shown you what I grabbed before you hit the ground, now I know you think that is BS and that is ok,Just kidding (forum rules you know)
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:06:14 PM EDT
You can bet this subject will be saved on the ATF DATA Base for future reference!
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:09:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bountyhunter: DA, there are so many guns out there that I have heard the anti's say that is why gun control is impossible at this date in time, they may be right.
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[b]And thousands more being manufactured and imported each and every day !![/b]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:14:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MinuteMan3: You can bet this subject will be saved on the ATF DATA Base for future reference!
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And that ain't all bad, might prevent it from occuring in the first place.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:29:29 PM EDT
Post from Deliverator -
Who would be the confiscating force? The local law enforcement, military, UN, or some new 3-letter organization?
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Quite frankly, it would be in [u]our[/u] best interest that it not be locals, but some sort of foreigners. That way, when the shooting starts, and start it will, the public's sympathy will be easier to obtain if the bad guys are not Americans!
Would you resist to the point of shooting/killing a fellow American that came to your door for your guns? Would some of them wink and say, “no guns here” and move to the next house?
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If a man comes to [u]my[/u] door to ask for a surrender of [u]my[/u] weapons, that fellow is no more an American than King George III!
I don’t know the answers. But it is chilling to be confronted at your own front door with that decision.
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You will see the news, you will be able to gauge the depth of the public's revulsion at so heavy handed attempts to disarm law-abiding American citizens. If they [u]don't[/u] support our resistence to tyranny, what does that mean to you? It means nothing to me. Just more sheeple that I will have to worry about stepping on, that's all. Eric The(ChooseYouThisDayWhomYouWillServe,AsForMeA­ndMyHouseWeWillServeTheLord)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:44:48 PM EDT
On any fed thing they always involve the locals as it is protocol, so yes they would be involved even if only as a show of protocol. Your friends or family might be involved in this kind of thing. It is a SOP that they usually follow. Not to say that in the future this would change.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:47:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 5:57:34 PM EDT by ProfGAB101]
As someone who holds a Type 7 FFL and has a hobby of stamp collecting. (NFA series of 1934) I can assure you that they have my name. Should the time come when they decide to collect 4473's, my bound books, inventory, and personal collection, I will expect that they will be most diligent in their efforts. What would I do - I can't say, for I don't really know, not being actually forced to face that decision. Its easy to say how you feel [u]now[/u], but I would have to say that it would be determined more by the [i]righteousness[/i] of the law in question. The more [i]tyrannical[/i] the law, the less likely I would want to comply with it. - On the other hand if they were to have the required number of states approve a constitutional amendment to the effect that Firearms were no longer a right of citizens... I would feel as if the "moral highground" had been yanked out from under me. "Resistance is futile" - BORG party line ~ "Maybe so, But how many can I take with me?" Man is dangerous because he uses tools, logic & reason. If he is committed to hurting you, he will. Take his guns, he will pull a knife. Take his knife and he will grab a club. Take his club and he will find a rock. Take his rock and he will snap your neck, or strangle you and watch your life slip away thru his hands. Man is dangerous. [B]YOU CANNOT CONTROL VIOLENCE BY CONTROLLING THE WEAPONS, THAT IS FUTILE.[/B]
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 5:59:52 PM EDT
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your councel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams _____________________________________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." "The Constitution of most of our states, and of the United States, assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." "Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 6:15:06 PM EDT
I voted NULL :)
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 6:16:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2002 6:32:04 PM EDT by Derek45]
I think talk is cheap. ...and most people are sheep who would cave in. However. Let's say for example, there are 5 million gun owners. And only 0.1% fight back and kill one Federal agent as he knocks down the door. That's 5000 dead troops. What would the public and Washington think about that? They will continue to pick at our 2nd amendment rights little by little. If they tried an all-out ban/confiscation, it would result in Civil War. Have you ever wondered how many "off paper" guns exsist in this country? Have you ever wondered how long it would take to search every home in America? Even the Liberals don't want the Govt. banging down there doors.
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 10:24:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2002 10:32:49 PM EDT
When, not if, this happens, only 2 things are required: 1) Call the New Rochelle, NY Police Department. 2) Call the Houston, TX Police Department. They would immediately go into action and defend the Constitution.
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