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Posted: 8/22/2002 9:04:43 AM EDT
Topic on suicide over on the FAL files brought this up. Do you believe that clinical depression is a disease, or that it even really exists? Do you believe that its the basis of a fucked up childhood, or a chemical imbalance? If you do believe in it, do you believe that suicide is natural selection for those with depression, and by committing suicide are therefore weeding out the weak links, hopefully before they can pass the faulty/flawed genes along?
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:07:00 AM EDT
Chemical imbalance.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:09:08 AM EDT
This topic is depressing.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:11:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:11:39 AM EDT
No...All the racial threads are depressing.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:12:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: Topic on suicide over on the FAL files brought this up. Do you believe that clinical depression is a disease, or that it even really exists?
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Yes, I don't know why they use the term "clinical, but I believe some people are depressed constantly.
Do you believe that its the basis of a fucked up childhood, or a chemical imbalance?
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Not real sure on this one. I feel like it could be either. I lived with a girl for three years once who had been molested by a relative for 8 years straight during her childhood. The family swept it under the rug so to speak and not another word was ever said. She has some major issues to this day because of it.
If you do believe in it, do you believe that suicide is natural selection for those with depression, and by committing suicide are therefore weeding out the weak links, hopefully before they can pass the faulty/flawed genes along?
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No, I don't think it's a natural selection thing. I think they may believe it's just the only solution to stop the hurt. Just my $.02 ... and 400th post [:D]
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:12:32 AM EDT
No, depression doesn't exist. Things are just terrible every where. There's no hope. Why bother trying. It's useless. We're all doomed. There's only one solution... [size=5]BANG![/size=5] And have a wonderful day [:D]
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:16:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: Yes, I believe in clinical depression. No, I don't know what causes it. Yes, I have personal experience with it.
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High levels of stress over prolonged periods of time is 'probably' the cause most often.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:17:58 AM EDT
Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:18:36 AM EDT
I think it exists. It comes from being unemployed since May.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:19:16 AM EDT
Do I believe in depression? Yes. Disease? Bad childhood? Chemical imbalance? Not really that educated on the subject, but it is treatable with drug therapy and/or counseling. Suicide is not natural selection (except in a really cynical view). I've seen many depressed/suicidal people in my job. A lot are very f***ed up, bad childhoods, drug/alcohol abuse, rape/molestation in their past, suicide attempts, etc. Depression can be a temporary/natural reaction to events. A very good friend of mine drowned in a tragic accident a few years back. I was very depressed, it was so bad that I saw a doctor for it ( I usually don't go to the doctor unless I'm bleeding to death). The treatment worked, I learned to deal with my grief, the depression subsided. Draw your own conclusions.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:20:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Are you a natural idiot or have you had advanced training ??
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:25:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Are you a natural idiot or have you had advanced training ??
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I speak of the truth that God has revealed to us in His word. No, I was not born with it. Are insults the only way you know how to communicate?
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:27:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:28:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Are you a natural idiot or have you had advanced training ??
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ROFLMAO! Now-Now...Don't you remember the code about personal attacks in the "racial Wars" threads....
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:30:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Always room for another whack job around here I see.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:31:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Are you a natural idiot or have you had advanced training ??
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I speak of the truth that God has revealed to us in His word. No, I was not born with it. Are insults the only way you know how to communicate?
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I have to agree with 5subslr5 on this one....you got troubles.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:31:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Are you a natural idiot or have you had advanced training ??
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I speak of the truth that God has revealed to us in His word. No, I was not born with it. Are insults the only way you know how to communicate?
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Naww, you sell me short. (That's different from short-selling) I can communicate with 'finger' signals too.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:32:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Oh, okay. Thanks for those words of wisdom.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:37:17 AM EDT
One must read it and discover for one's self. No amount of arguing from me is going to change anyone's heart.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:37:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By deadeye47:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Are you a natural idiot or have you had advanced training ??
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ROFLMAO! Now-Now...Don't you remember the code about personal attacks in the "racial Wars" threads....
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No personal attack - part of an on-going scientific study !
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:41:50 AM EDT
Could everyone please move to the back of the thread while the hijacking is in progress... ...Thank you for your cooperation [:D]
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 9:58:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By out-a-ammo: Could everyone please move to the back of the thread while the hijacking is in progress... ...Thank you for your cooperation [:D]
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BRUAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA "all your [b]threads[b]belong to us??" Oh and "TheRicker"....just wait the Rikwriter gets here....he is going to be upset.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:16:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:19:23 AM EDT
originally posted by the ricker: I speak of the truth that God has revealed to us in His word
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Where in the Bible is this "revealed"?
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:23:18 AM EDT
I believe it is a condition, NOT a disease. The condition is exacerbated by environmental stimuli, resuulting in all the outward manifestations. I also believe that all the antidepressants in the world won't make you happy. They just help you stop feeling sad. Feeling happy is up to you. I'm speaking from experience, although I've not taken antidepressants myself.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:23:40 AM EDT
I lost a friend to manic depression. I feel that there are a couple forms, tho. There ARE those who just need to 'get over it' and get on with their lives, but there are also those who suffer from an actual physiological disease. An emotion is a response to an event, which stimulates chemical/hormonal responses in the brain. Sometimes the chemical/hormonal response happens without an event to bring it about... Imagine your wife and kids being killed in a wreck, losing your job, having a housefire... the worst possible situation, and imagine how depressed you'd feel. Now imagine feeling like that for NO REASON WHATSOEVER. That's what my buddy felt.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:29:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2002 10:31:30 AM EDT by JU88]
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:35:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2002 10:37:25 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Very sorry to hear that [b]Matthew_Q[/b]. Yes, depression is a very REAL disease with consequences that can be just as severe as cancer or heart disease. And like those diseases, the causes are multifactorial. It afflicts at least 10% of the US adult population. Genetics, environment and lifestyle can all contribute to depression in varing degrees. Sadly, too many macho "tough guys" who think people should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps do more even harm to depressed family members (usually women). The worst part is that it's a "shunned" disease, like syphillis. And the feeling of being an outcast or not taken seriously even by a single important person in one's life can be the straw that breaks the camel's back in a clinically depressed/suicidal person. It's a horrible disease to have to deal with. One in which there's, all to often, very little support for the person.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:51:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 10:56:39 AM EDT
Clinical Depression and Manic Depression are mental disorders. They are not the same thing as feeling depressed or sad. Feeling depressed or sad are common emotions that everyone feels from time to time, and is quite normal. They are temporary conditions. Clinical Depression or Manic Depression are illnesses. A person suffering from these illnesses is not just a little sad, they are very sick. Sick to a point that they cannot carry on normal daily activities. The disease is so painful for the person that if untreated can and frequently does lead to suicide. The disease seldom responds to prayer, sleep, time off, people telling the sufferer to just cheer up, huggs, lots of love, or anything else you might dream up. The disease does respond to medication and long term therapy. If someone in your family suffers from one of these problems get help, both for them and for you. And ask for others to pray for you and support you while you deal with a loved one who is going through the hell of Clinical Depression or Manic Depression. Especially if your spouse or child has Mannic Depression. In the mannic swing they can keep going for days without sleep and cause you seemingly endless grief. It can get so bad that you might think about suicide or harming the sufferer.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:05:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: If you do believe in it, do you believe that suicide is natural selection for those with depression, and by committing suicide are therefore weeding out the weak links, hopefully before they can pass the faulty/flawed genes along?
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If you honestly believe this, then the same reasoning should apply to all medical conditions and behaviors that kill...i.e, cancer, obesity, stupidity, etc. Are you related to TheRicker by any chance? You both appear to need some counseling.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:09:56 AM EDT
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=139024&w=myTopicPop[/url] Here is some information about local perceptions and attitudes.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:11:07 AM EDT
Spent 12 years working in the mental health field and can attest that depression is real. Look, there are some life events that are depressing; loss of a loved one, whether by death or separation (divorce), loss of career, housing or whatever. Most everyone who goes thru these losses will be at least somewhat depressed for a certain period. As best we can figure it out, these events trigger a change in brain chemistry that causes the feelings to erupt. Call this Type 1 depression, if you will. Then there's clinical depression, characterised by these sad feelings being, or becoming, a "way of life". The feelings are there independently of what actual events are occuring. This is usually the type where medication is prescribed. Manic depression is a variant of this type, where the brain chemistry cycles back and forth. Call this Type 2 depression. For those with a Type 1 depression, and a strongly rooted religious belief system, prayer is often very helpful. It may well assist the individual in finding a sense of peace, and thus help the brain get back to a chemically balanced state. For Type 2 sufferers, prayer isn't going to help a whole lot. Medicine is usually the only answer, and not always even then. We still don't know everything about the human brain and how it works. Hopefully someday we will. Those of us who have never suffered from clinical depression will never fully understand what it feels like, but I've seen too many people who suffer from it not to be convinced that it exists.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:14:34 AM EDT
I grew up watching my mother and my grandmother both deal with manic\clinical depression and anxiety problems. These illnesses are VERY real and affect whole families. The idea that sin is the culprit behind psycological illness is the most fucking rediculous thing I've ever read in my life. Both of these women have ordained ministers for husbands and have led religious and spiritual lives. Are you the kind of person that wouldnt take his children to a medical doctor because God will look after them? This kind of dismissal of all logic and scientific study scares the bejeezus out of me and it's insulting to the people that are barely hanging on every day of there lives. --ZERO
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:21:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:25:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JU88:
Originally Posted By SgtKiwi:
originally posted by the ricker: I speak of the truth that God has revealed to us in His word
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Where in the Bible is this "revealed"?
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That is a great question! I have suffered with classical depression as long as I can remember, what Did I do to deserve this punishment, oh enlighted one. My six year old son suffers with it as well, should I tell him that he hates himself because he is a loser and has been such a sinner that god now hates him to? That is what you are saying isn't it? I should tell him to pray harder and tithe more to feel better. Now please tell me what possible sin my son, who has never hurt anybody and lives to help others could have possibly commited to deserve such a punishment at the age of six!
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We are all sinners unless God has chosen us for redemption. Praying harder and giving all your money will not help if you are not first regenerated. We are born with sin. We don't have to commit sin (although we will). It's inherent within us until we are redeemed by the Spirit. [i]Romans 3:23[/i] For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. [i]Romans 6:23[/i] For the wages of sin is [b]death[/b], but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. [i]Romans 5:08[/i] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. [i]Romans 10:9-10[/i] ...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [i]Romans 10:13[/i] for whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. We deserve death (not merely depression) because we are sinners, but God has made a way for his children. His sacrifice (His sons death) paid for our sins (past, present, future) and makes us blameless in the eyes of God. How can we be truly depressed with this knowledge?
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:29:58 AM EDT
I've got a little black book with my poems in. Got a bag with a toothbrush and a comb in. When I'm a good dog, they sometimes throw me a bone in.... [whacko] name it
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:36:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:40:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Are you a natural idiot or have you had advanced training ??
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Aw 5subslr5, do you have the "fat gene"?
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 11:51:39 AM EDT
BTW, if someone is treated for clinical depression, but has never been diagnosed as being any kind of threat to anyone, including themselves, are their gun rights in any kind of danger?
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 12:00:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker:
Originally Posted By JU88:
Originally Posted By SgtKiwi:
originally posted by the ricker: I speak of the truth that God has revealed to us in His word
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Where in the Bible is this "revealed"?
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That is a great question! I have suffered with classical depression as long as I can remember, what Did I do to deserve this punishment, oh enlighted one. My six year old son suffers with it as well, should I tell him that he hates himself because he is a loser and has been such a sinner that god now hates him to? That is what you are saying isn't it? I should tell him to pray harder and tithe more to feel better. Now please tell me what possible sin my son, who has never hurt anybody and lives to help others could have possibly commited to deserve such a punishment at the age of six!
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We are all sinners unless God has chosen us for redemption. Praying harder and giving all your money will not help if you are not first regenerated. We are born with sin. We don't have to commit sin (although we will). It's inherent within us until we are redeemed by the Spirit. [i]Romans 3:23[/i] For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. [i]Romans 6:23[/i] For the wages of sin is [b]death[/b], but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. [i]Romans 5:08[/i] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. [i]Romans 10:9-10[/i] ...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [i]Romans 10:13[/i] for whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. We deserve death (not merely depression) because we are sinners, but God has made a way for his children. His sacrifice (His sons death) paid for our sins (past, present, future) and makes us blameless in the eyes of God. How can we be truly depressed with this knowledge?
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[size=4] Could it be,... SATAN?!!?[/size=4] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/DScott%2Fcl%2Ejpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 12:00:33 PM EDT
Well, as usual, a lot of stupid and/or uninformed responses to these questions. Depression is indeed a disease. It's as real as the flu or diabetes or cancer. In some people it can have situational (environmental) causes, and in such a case it is often easily remedied with drugs and/or a change in the situation. In others depression is largely the result of genetic factors, in the same way that diabetes is. In the latter case it is likely the person will require ongoing treatment with drugs, just as the diabetic requires insulin. There is also a spectrum of severity to depression. In severe cases a person may be unable to function, in others a person may appear completely normal. Also, do not confuse "sadness" with "depression". They are not the same thing. People who are sad tend to cry. People who are depressed probably seldom cry-- they often lack the energy, or are too busy dealing with panic attacks or other manifestations of their disease. Given that some, even many, of history's greatest men and women suffered from depression and other mental disorders, I would hesitate to call it a "natural selection process." Chances are, if all the people who ever suffered depression and other disorders were removed from human existence, we'd still be living in caves. Much of this I know from experience. The disease runs in my family. And I lost a dear brother to it. All of this makes me acutely aware of the topic, and explains my lack of patience with the ignorant attitudes and stigmas associated with it. Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 12:01:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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If you are serious this may be the dumbest thing I have read today. My brother "found" Jesus about 8 months before he placed a gun to his right temple and pulled the trigger. Other than his final act he was liviing a life free of sin no drinking, no cussing, no whoring around and was even attending a church. People that are severly depressed don't interpret things the way most people do. It affects both the way you see the world and the way you think. Every problem seems overwhelming, simply getting out of bed is a major issue.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 12:21:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2002 12:26:32 PM EDT by JU88]
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 1:21:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By satcong: I've got a little black book with my poems in. Got a bag with a toothbrush and a comb in. When I'm a good dog, they sometimes throw me a bone in.... [whacko] name it
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Pink Floyd The Wall Nobody Home
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 1:22:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SNorman:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TheRicker: Depression is the result of sin in our lives. Any attempt to pass it off as a medical condition is a vain attempt at venerating ourselves. Same way with the "fat gene", "homo gene", "rapist gene"...ad nauseum.
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Are you a natural idiot or have you had advanced training ??
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Aw 5subslr5, do you have the "fat gene"?
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[b]No but I have suffered from hereditary clinical depression.[/b] In my case about 18 months of medication restored my chemical balance. However, three of my four brothers were similarly afflicted and all three have been on medication for some years now. [b]Gentle people, Untreated Clinical Depression is the number one cause of suicides in the United States.[/b] Depression is no laughing matter but its usually readily treatable. If you seem to be chronically depressed please seek medical help.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 1:28:51 PM EDT
Depression is real. It is also a perfectly normal state of being. Some people are just a depressed dour personality type, at that is the way they should be. Medicating them is no more the solution than sedating an extrovert. Some of you have had the "color" personality type training at work: "Depressed" people are Green/golds or Gold /greens and its normal.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 1:37:51 PM EDT
Legs, one thing you have to consider is culture. A lot of cultures, thats how they deal with problems. They get very emotional. Its kind of a conditioned response. So you have figure out if its depression or something else. Or both. But depression is real and life threatening. I have treated a lot of women and its amazing to see the difference after a few months of treatment. I also think women are smarter then us and get help sooner. Most of us will suffer unless we are bleeding to death.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 1:54:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: Do you believe that clinical depression is a disease, or that it even really exists? First of all, yes clinical depression DOES exsist, and if you've never had personal experience with it, then it may be hard for you to even understand. Most people use the word depression too freely, but yes clinical depression is a huge problem, and quite frankly I am sick and tired of the stigma that goes along with it. It is just like any other disease. It needs to be treated with medication, but only when there is a chemical imbalance. Anti-depressants are over perscribed. But, yes, I was diagnosed with clinical depression, and it is recurrent. It comes and goes. Medication helps. It took a long time to find the correct med, but it was worth the wait. Looking back now I can say that. Do you believe that its the basis of a fucked up childhood, or a chemical imbalance? There is a fine line between a "fucked up" childhood and chemical imbalance. I believe that one can lead to the other, but that is my own opinion. There is too much research out there, so if anyone was truly this interested to know, read up on it. If you do believe in it, do you believe that suicide is natural selection for those with depression, and by committing suicide are therefore weeding out the weak links, hopefully before they can pass the faulty/flawed genes along? I understand that you are only curious to know about clinical depression, but come on....this makes me so damn angry. "Weeding out weak links?" Damn....Depression IS NOT a weakness. Should we weed out everyone who gets the HIV virus as soon as they are diagnosed, or better yet a contagious cold or fever? Sorry, but that was low. I am very sensitive when it comes to this topic. Sorry, but that was just too low.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 1:57:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker:
Originally Posted By JU88:
Originally Posted By SgtKiwi:
originally posted by the ricker: I speak of the truth that God has revealed to us in His word
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Where in the Bible is this "revealed"?
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That is a great question! I have suffered with classical depression as long as I can remember, what Did I do to deserve this punishment, oh enlighted one. My six year old son suffers with it as well, should I tell him that he hates himself because he is a loser and has been such a sinner that god now hates him to? That is what you are saying isn't it? I should tell him to pray harder and tithe more to feel better. Now please tell me what possible sin my son, who has never hurt anybody and lives to help others could have possibly commited to deserve such a punishment at the age of six!
View Quote
We are all sinners unless God has chosen us for redemption. Praying harder and giving all your money will not help if you are not first regenerated. We are born with sin. We don't have to commit sin (although we will). It's inherent within us until we are redeemed by the Spirit. [i]Romans 3:23[/i] For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. [i]Romans 6:23[/i] For the wages of sin is [b]death[/b], but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. [i]Romans 5:08[/i] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. [i]Romans 10:9-10[/i] ...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. [i]Romans 10:13[/i] for whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. We deserve death (not merely depression) because we are sinners, but God has made a way for his children. His sacrifice (His sons death) paid for our sins (past, present, future) and makes us blameless in the eyes of God. How can we be truly depressed with this knowledge?
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AND this is what is wrong with this WORLD!
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