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Posted: 8/18/2002 7:17:51 AM EDT
[url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/735166/posts[/url]
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:24:17 AM EDT
Good man! Ports of entry are where inspections should take place.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:32:27 AM EDT
It's only a matter of time before they can do this at will. After all, they can wright you a ticket for parking in a handicap slot, with out the owner of the propertys permission.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:36:18 AM EDT
Ports of entry only, heh? As someone who lived three years in El Paso ('98-'00), let me tell you - it's just not possible. The traffic flow across the border is too intense. The feds have essentially given up on the City and have set up additional Border Patrol Checkpoints on the Major Highways leading out. I know there was one well south of Albuquerque and one well west of Van Horne, TX. I used to enjoy messing with those guys and, when they asked me question like, "Where are you going" I would respond, "No hablo Ingles"[:)]. I had the advantage in that my Irish-Swedish Ass could never be mistaken for Mexican. I was always much more respectful when I had guns / ammo in the car or was with Hispanic friends. I guess people that don't like having their VINs checked are like people that get upset when a cashier asks for ID when you use a credit card. I for one appreciate both situations. I like to think there might be some chance of a stolen car getting recovered. How long can it really take? Not sure how big the problem is with commercial rigs though.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:44:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White: Ports of entry only, heh? As someone who lived three years in El Paso ('98-'00), let me tell you - it's just not possible. The traffic flow across the border is too intense. The feds have essentially given up on the City and have set up additional Border Patrol Checkpoints on the Major Highways leading out. I know there was one well south of Albuquerque and one well west of Van Horne, TX. I used to enjoy messing with those guys and, when they asked me question like, "Where are you going" I would respond, "No hablo Ingles"[:)]. I had the advantage in that my Irish-Swedish Ass could never be mistaken for Mexican. I was always much more respectful when I had guns / ammo in the car or was with Hispanic friends. I guess people that don't like having their VINs checked are like people that get upset when a cashier asks for ID when you use a credit card. I for one appreciate both situations. I like to think there might be some chance of a stolen car getting recovered. How long can it really take? Not sure how big the problem is with commercial rigs though.
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And I can't wait for random house searches either, then they can recover some of that stolen merchandise.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:56:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:57:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er: After all, they can wright you a ticket for parking in a handicap slot, with out the owner of the propertys permission.
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That's a problem for you???????? I think they should be able to [b]TOW[/b] from handicapped parking without the property owner's permission.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:59:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By ar10er: After all, they can wright you a ticket for parking in a handicap slot, with out the owner of the propertys permission.
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That's a problem for you???????? I think they should be able to [b]TOW[/b] from handicapped parking without the property owner's permission.
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Why?
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:02:55 AM EDT
Yeah. what mbsk01 said. DOT inspections make me [puke]
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:06:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er: And I can't wait for random house searches either, then they can recover some of that stolen merchandise.[rolleyes]
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How do you equate searching private homes with onobtrusive vehicle checks on vehicles using PUBLIC roads? As for handicapped parking spaces, the law requires them - the law isn't much good if it cannot be enforced! Adam
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:12:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By ar10er: And I can't wait for random house searches either, then they can recover some of that stolen merchandise.[rolleyes]
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How do you equate searching private homes with onobtrusive vehicle checks on vehicles using PUBLIC roads? As for handicapped parking spaces, the law requires them - the law isn't much good if it cannot be enforced! Adam
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The last time I checked, vehicles were private property.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:16:06 AM EDT
"Unhappy truckers told KRQE News 13 they planned to use their CB radios to tell other truckers on the road not to stop in Albuquerque." Gee, I wonder why they were asked to leave. Sort of like the current situation at airports... At what point did gov't decide that they had the right and the authority to stop people for their numerous busybody checks? If they can't handle it at the port of entry, fix the situation there. Nothing like roving bands of gov't agents - state, local, federal - stopping citizens at random. Where has this happened before...
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:34:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er: The last time I checked, vehicles were private property.
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If they were randomly checking trunks without PC, you and I would be in agreement. In fact, I would be screaming as loud as anybody that such searches are unconstitutional. All I am saying is that it doen not personally bother me that they are checking VINs. In fact, I am glad they are - auto theft is a serious problem in that area. Incidentally, I am extremely bothered buy the news I keep hearing that we are holding US citizens on some Navy base with no charges or judicial oversight. If the case is so special - couldn't they at least run it by the supreme court in private and have some checks and balances here?? I am a staunch supporter of all 10 of the bill of rights - I just interpret the 4th different from you in this case. Incidentally, I agree that the truck stop owner has ever right to chase the cops off his property - especially since it was clear they were hurting his business.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:45:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By ar10er: The last time I checked, vehicles were private property.
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If they were randomly checking trunks without PC, you and I would be in agreement. In fact, I would be screaming as loud as anybody that such searches are unconstitutional. All I am saying is that it doen not personally bother me that they are checking VINs. In fact, I am glad they are - auto theft is a serious problem in that area. Incidentally, I am extremely bothered buy the news I keep hearing that we are holding US citizens on some Navy base with no charges or judicial oversight. If the case is so special - couldn't they at least run it by the supreme court in private and have some checks and balances here?? I am a staunch supporter of all 10 of the bill of rights - I just interpret the 4th different from you in this case. Incidentally, I agree that the truck stop owner has ever right to chase the cops off his property - especially since it was clear they were hurting his business.
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Ok
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 10:10:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White: Ports of entry only, heh? As someone who lived three years in El Paso ('98-'00), let me tell you - it's just not possible. The traffic flow across the border is too intense. The feds have essentially given up on the City and have set up additional Border Patrol Checkpoints on the Major Highways leading out. I know there was one well south of Albuquerque and one well west of Van Horne, TX.
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Yep, when a friend and I drove non-stop to Vegas with most of our trip along I-10, we ran into one of them somewhere outside of El Paso. I look hispanic and was driving while the car's owner was catching a nap in the passenger seat. When we got to the checkpoint, they saw me and said "Pull over for inspection," and then my friend popped up, who was white and they said "Oh, move along..." [;D] Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 10:29:46 AM EDT
One more note: the VIN of your car is (A) in 'plain view' (it's that number you see if you look at the bottom corner of your drivers-side windshield), and (B) on your registration. It's public information, and checking it is no different from checking ID to write a check (or cross the border to MX or CA), or a cop asking you for 'license & registration' when you get pulled over. They aren't searching vehicles, this activity doesn't require a warrant (and hasn't, even pre-9/11) any more than a cop needs a warrant to look through the window of your publicly-parked car (IIRC). I hope they catch some car/truck thieves...
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 2:07:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By ar10er: After all, they can wright you a ticket for parking in a handicap slot, with out the owner of the propertys permission.
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That's a problem for you???????? I think they should be able to [b]TOW[/b] from handicapped parking without the property owner's permission.
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Why?
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Maybe you should try transfering from a car to a wheelchair while parked in a normal parking spot with another vehicle parked immediately next to yours before asking such a question. God forbid you have a van with a ramp that needs to be extended to the side. While I would never have parked in spots reserved for the disabled, I wasn't very sensitive to the needs of the disabled before a relative was paralyzed in an ATV accident last year. Now I would call the police, report violators, and insist that they be cited. I agree with Larry, violator's vehicles should towed and impounded. There is no excuse or reason for able bodied people to park in spaces reserved for those with disabilities.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 2:58:17 PM EDT
Although on Privatly owned property Offstreet parking facility (parking lot) is generally subject to the same vehicle code provisions as any public street or highway.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:34:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By ar10er:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By ar10er: After all, they can wright you a ticket for parking in a handicap slot, with out the owner of the propertys permission.
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That's a problem for you???????? I think they should be able to [b]TOW[/b] from handicapped parking without the property owner's permission.
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Boomer and LARRYG thanks, as a person is a wheelchair it is appriciated when someone notices the difficulties associated with being in a wheelchair. I wish they would also ticket people who are in a wheelchair that park in handicap spots but never get out of there vehicle, just so someone with them can get closer. Why?
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Maybe you should try transfering from a car to a wheelchair while parked in a normal parking spot with another vehicle parked immediately next to yours before asking such a question. God forbid you have a van with a ramp that needs to be extended to the side. While I would never have parked in spots reserved for the disabled, I wasn't very sensitive to the needs of the disabled before a relative was paralyzed in an ATV accident last year. Now I would call the police, report violators, and insist that they be cited. I agree with Larry, violator's vehicles should towed and impounded. There is no excuse or reason for able bodied people to park in spaces reserved for those with disabilities.
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Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:41:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 8:46:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Is it still the case that police do not have the authority to cite for a collision that occurred on private property?
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It is here in Michigan.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 9:21:29 PM EDT
There is a great place to go shooting not too far from that truck stop. I always stop in to buy a soda when out shooting bunnies on that side of town.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 11:25:50 PM EDT
As part of the Homeland Defense efforts, I demand that the BATF have the authority to check the serial numbers of any and all firearms and background checks of those in possession of said firearms who are entering or leaving gun shows or shooting ranges being held on public property.
Link Posted: 8/19/2002 1:34:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2002 3:07:20 PM EDT by Stealth]
Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, [b]and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized[/b]. --------------------------- Interpret it as you will. edited to remove my 2AM ranting [:D]
Link Posted: 8/19/2002 2:02:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stealth: Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, [b]and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized[/b]. --------------------------- Interpret it as you will.
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Yes, except that search warrants aren't required for plain view, or open view. VIN checkes often fall under one of those 2. Several keys are, did the officer have to move anything, the item itself, or something near the item in order to see a VIN. If the answer is YES it is a search, if the answer is NO it isn't. Where was the object that was being viewed? If it is in an enclosed garage, then you need a warrant to get into the garage. However if you park your car on a public street, the key being PUBLIC, since you have no expectation of privacy, your VIN could be checked, again as long a the officer doesn't have to phsyically move anything in order to do so, or intrude into private areas of the vehicle. As for the "Flying J" if they are a business, they by nature are opened to the PUBLIC. To demand that officers leave a PUBLIC enterprise, on private property, is unlikely to be affirmed by a Court. Unless the officer(s) did something that would cause tha "Flying J" to ask them to leave, like any other member of the public. I wonder if they didn't pick a truck stop to do this at, because the vehicles were stopped anyway and it would be LESS disruptive than a mandatory stop at a weigh station. As far as traffic rules in WI Public roads, roads in state/muni-parks all driving rules are enforceable. Private property open to the public, ie shopping mall, apt. parking lot, there are limited rules that can be enforced, DUI, H+R, Reckless Driving, Handicap Parking Violation, driving over a fire hose, to name MOST of them. Basically it is the one that protect life and property. Private property that is not open to the public, ie your 500 acre farm, private race track(race area), No traffic rules are enforceable. But criminal law is ie Homicide by DUI, Great Bodily Harm By DUI. Reckless driving is a criminal violation seperate from the motor vehicle code violation of reckless driving. This one is not a citation, and can't be used against a person's driving record, or to suspend a DL. Basically you have to do something very reckless, and injure or come unbelievable close to injuring someone.
Link Posted: 8/25/2002 8:48:21 PM EDT
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