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Posted: 8/16/2002 9:26:40 PM EDT
Today at about 3:00 pm. I was driving home on I94 and merging on to hwy 16 near Waukesha Wi. I drive a brand new GMC crew cab dually. The reason I mention that is because as I turned on to 16, I felt a rumble and heard a noise that even rocked that big rig! I thought that I was losing the rear end. The next thing I know, two F16s took a hard right-hand turn in front of me! I swear to GOD that they weren't more than a couple hundred feet off of the ground! I pulled over to watch as they circled a small aircraft and the local airport about three times and they were gone. Five minutes later, a buddy of mine called me and said that he saw the same thing in Germantown(about 15 miles away)! I called the Airport to ask what the fu** was going on, and the lady said that they were just doing some maneuvers and that the news didn't mention it because they felt that it would cause panic! Did anyone in Wisconsin or anywhere else see something like this recently? I just want to believe that I am not the only grown man that shit his pants today!
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:30:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:41:15 PM EDT
I see it all the time,but I do live next to Tampa,some times I think 1/2 the Air Force is over my house! Anyway,what you want to look for is what goodies the fighter has on,that will give you an idea of what he is set out to do or to be ready to do. I have not known then to play to much with a heavy load if they don't really need too,I bet it's alot like taking your truck out on a race track with the bed full of rocks. Sounds to me like they was just F*ing around[:D]
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:44:05 PM EDT
As far as I could tell, the plane wasn't doing any thing goofy. The plane wasn't heading in the direction that my buddy saw them circling! It sounds like they were looking at few different planes. I reallt didn't like being almost directly under the action at the time because I had my 4 month old daughter with me! I must say it was a pretty wild sight!
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:52:47 PM EDT
I have lived in this area for 18 years. I have never seen more than little white lines in the distant sky. This is a suburb of Milwaukee and a very residential area. It just didn't seem right!
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:55:32 PM EDT
You Know, I live in Enid Oklahome and last week I walked out of my Apt plex when suddenly two CH-53's with all the Pave stuff blew past me about two hundred feet off the ground going like they were being chased by the devil. It was wierd, we never see those here.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 10:03:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 10:10:49 PM EDT
I remember right after Sept.11 there was some weirdo on a flight heading for O'Hare and 2 F-16's took off from Madison. On there way to intercept the Airliner the F-16's had the afterburners on over the City of Janesville.There were reports from all over the city wanting to know what the load explosions were. We're talking about a city of 60,000. The sonic booms put a lot of people on the ground that day.......LOUD.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 10:54:10 PM EDT
They are probably from Madison's Truax (sp?) Field that used to have A-10s. I remember a couple years ago I was on a lake in central WI and they flew verrry low over me while I was in the boat while waiting to perform at an airshow in Madison. They did this several times,and because I was one of only a couple boats on the lake, they kept sneaking up on me![:D] They came from different areas each time and I didn't see or hear them until they were right on me.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 11:54:29 PM EDT
There used to be a Naval Radar Bomb Scoring Unit out of the Pacific Northwest not too long ago. It used an AN/TPQ-43 bomb tracking radar / computer / video camera. It was used by Navy and Air Force aircraft to practice simulated bombing attacks on a good sized metropolitan area. There was a map of the area with all of the landmarks / buildings / terrain features marked. The data was in the computer, the pilots would be briefed on what the target was, the commuter knew the altitude, airspeed, wind direction / temp / humidity / and the type of bomb being dropped. The aircrew had to figure out when and where to release the bomb to score a hit. Targets included city hall, power generating facilities, the gas works, fuel depots, the local law enforcement buildings, churches, schools, the local airport, the Air Force Base, bridges, even the local nudist colony. If the local population had known this I am sure the shit would have hit the fan!
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Move out to the country. I have seen U-2s, B-1s, C-130s (at VERY low altitude) and many UH60s and AH64s. And I wasn't a military brat. I wonder how many landmarks (houses, powerplants, dams, etc) got "blown up" on those training flights.
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Link Posted: 8/17/2002 12:05:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 12:19:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2002 12:21:00 AM EDT by Redmanfms]
The Deer Valley, VA used to have Navy A6s doing low altitude runs at high speed all the time. Here in a Waynesboro we have about a dozen or so Blackhawks fly over in formation with Apaches in escort down low, real fast about once a month. The Navy jackasses did this crap before 9/11 routinely and it was kind of fun to watch their antics because they did it broad daylight, but the Army started flying just after 9/11, at night. What really sucks is that they always fly over at about 02:30 and wake everybody in the town up, they fly so low that they even set off car alarms. I'm sure that if civilians did the same kind of shit to military posts, people would get shot. I don't think the military would react too keenly if we "civilians" started taking "simulated" target practice on their personnel and vehicles.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 12:25:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 4:20:40 AM EDT
About 20 years ago I lived in a little town called Paint Lick Ky. Saw B52's all the time.Always kind of low and on the same flight path. Loved it! Thought it was cool as hell.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 4:25:48 AM EDT
As a person who pilots his own small plane, I want to tell you there is nothing "safe" about being approached by these kind of fast movers. The jet wash screw the air up for half an hour after they have been there and they can kill you by passing to close. What I want to know is, why doesn't Posse Commitatus apply to the Air Force?
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 4:34:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2002 4:36:00 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
They have F-16's based in Madison, the one thing I don't like is they replaced A-10's. They fly about all the time. The pilots need to keep their hours up so keep thier certifictions and skills. They were probably just doing an excercise flying to certain navigation points. It is the sound of freedom.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 5:20:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By newblkrifle: I reallt didn't like being almost directly under the action at the time because I had my 4 month old daughter with me! I must say it was a pretty wild sight!
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Now imagine them loaded with ordinance coming after [b]your[/b] ass. Life as a Taliban (and soon to be [b]Iraqi[/b] soldier.) You're right though, it's an awesome sight.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 5:33:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Redmanfms: I don't think the military would react too keenly if we "civilians" started taking "simulated" target practice on their personnel and vehicles.
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Yeah. At my old church building, we were right in the glide path of Carswell AFB. Sometimes we would get F/A-18 and F-16 and F-15 s so low you could see the rivets. And see the junk in the wheel wells. Wow.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:07:48 AM EDT
"Jet noise, the sound of freedom..." It always has amazed and pissed me off when people go out of their way to complain about low level military flights. The military [b]needs[/b] to practice plying like this. You don't want some guy flying several million dollars worth of hardware going to war and actually flying low level with only one or two actual low level flights a year. They take great pains to plan these low level routes in areas as uninhabited as possible, but you cannot always put em where people are not (and if you did tree huggers bitch it scares the animals anyway). Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:14:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:16:31 AM EDT
Volk Field and the Hardwood MOA is right close to there. I've dropped concrete from an F-16 there. There is nothing unusual about what they're doing.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:20:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Originally Posted By hielo: As a person who pilots his own small plane, I want to tell you there is nothing "safe" about being approached by these kind of fast movers. The jet wash screw the air up for half an hour after they have been there and they can kill you by passing to close. What I want to know is, why doesn't Posse Commitatus apply to the Air Force?
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Are you serious about the jet wash screwing up the air for a half hour? Damn I thought it was just a few seconds.
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Very serious, the air is sometimes like hitting a brick wall. Whats with using the military (in this case Air Force) as a domestic police agency? That doesn't sit well with me.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:21:50 AM EDT
In '73 I was working for my dad in the Nebr. countryside and heard a loud noise coming up on us. I looked up and right overhead was a low and slow B52. Damn that rocked. There were a couple of aviation transponders in the area and we used to get military planes flying over all the time. It wasn't too unusual to watch B52's refuel, maybe even half the time you saw a B52 there was a tanker nearby. Growing up there were plenty of sonic booms and after reading about SR71 practice missions I'm sure most of the booms were from SR71's using the same transponders for navigation. I have seen a couple of B1's since moving to Colo. And one night I heard a god-awful roar, stepped outside to look, thinking "wouldn't it be cool if it was something in afterburn!!" Hell if it wasn't. An F16 streaked overhead with a rippling white flame streaking out it's tailpipe. It was subsonic, but what an awesome sight and sound.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:27:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: Whats with using the military (in this case Air Force) as a domestic police agency? That doesn't sit well with me.
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Intercepts are "domestic police" actions? Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:33:51 AM EDT
Intercepts??? From the story 2 F-16's buzzed and airfield. How is that anything other than them flying about? Talk about jumping to conclusions. I see them all the time, have for years, although I liked it better when they had A-10's. They fly, because they have planes, fuel, and pilots. When you mix those 3 things flying happens.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:45:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: As a person who pilots his own small plane, I want to tell you there is nothing "safe" about being approached by these kind of fast movers.
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Passing close sounds like an intercept or practice intercept to me. [url]http://www.faa.gov/AVR/afs/news/Current_Issue/nsaip.htm[/url] Besides, MOAs are clearly marked on sectionals. 3-4-5. Military Operations Areas a. MOA's consist of airspace of defined vertical and lateral limits established for the purpose of separating certain military training activities from IFR traffic. Whenever a MOA is being used, nonparticipating IFR traffic may be cleared through a MOA if IFR separation can be provided by ATC. Otherwise, ATC will reroute or restrict nonparticipating IFR traffic. b. Most training activities necessitate acrobatic or abrupt flight maneuvers. Military pilots conducting flight in Department of Defense aircraft within a designated and active MOA are exempted from the provisions of 14 CFR Section 91.303(c) and (d) which prohibit acrobatic flight within Federal airways and Class B, Class C, Class D, and Class E surface areas. c. Pilots operating under VFR should exercise extreme caution while flying within a MOA when military activity is being conducted. The activity status (active/inactive) of MOA's may change frequently. Therefore, pilots should contact any FSS within 100 miles of the area to obtain accurate real-time information concerning the MOA hours of operation. Prior to entering an active MOA, pilots should contact the controlling agency for traffic advisories. d. MOA's are depicted on sectional, VFR Terminal Area, and Enroute Low Altitude charts. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:52:17 AM EDT
Sounds like the F-16s were doing a section (two-plane) low level on a MTR (military training route). This type of mission profile is done between 200 and 1000 ft off the ground at speeds in excess of 300 kts. The aircraft simulate attacking targets of opportunity or predesignated locations along the route. The routes are all preestablished and charted with the FAA and must be scheduled ahead of time.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:55:47 AM EDT
What is the acronym for when a military plane is snet out to escort or shoot down a jumbo jet full of people?
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:58:12 AM EDT
Aviator, excuse me for sticking with the story that was originally posted, and not with the "airing of the grievences".
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:59:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: What is the acronym for when a military plane is snet out to escort or shoot down a jumbo jet full of people?
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What does that have to do with the story that was posted?
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:11:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Originally Posted By hielo: What is the acronym for when a military plane is snet out to escort or shoot down a jumbo jet full of people?
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What does that have to do with the story that was posted?
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As with many intelligent conversations, sometimes they go off on tangents, this, has done that. In reality, there isn't much to say to the guy who posts "wow, just saw some airplanes flyby, it was cool". But his post does allow discussions of topics which are generated by his post. Cool, huh?
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:21:05 AM EDT
Well, look at the bright side. At least it wasn't Mig-29s buzzing your area. [shock]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 12:19:04 PM EDT
I know the feeling. You should take your vacation here in Ft. Walton bch. Florida...Eglin AFB, 33rd TFS Fighting Nomads. Everyday, a new "show", especially now since we're at war. The nighttime "show" consists of Hurlburt field's C-130's and A-10's expending ordnance. The sounds of freedom indeed! [50] Bring a case of depends if the noise gets to ya.[shock] [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 5:14:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: What is the acronym for when a military plane is snet out to escort or shoot down a jumbo jet full of people?
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W.A.R.I.S.H.E.L.L Try not to cry about it to long.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 7:54:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2002 7:55:34 PM EDT by Corey]
I live within a few miles of the airport here in Madison, which also shares turf with Truax Field -- probably where these F16's came from. They routinely do touch and goes and their circular route brings them directly over my house as they swing in to land. I love seeing them fly over at about 500 feet with their gear down and vapor coming off their wings. A certain area of Madison (ahem, the Eastside) is pretty proud of our F16's, and the local pilots who fly them. There's even a picture in a local bar of an F16 painted green and gold flying over the capitol. I've seen numerous F16 fly overs, some supersonic and some just loafing around at about 200' off the deck. They all impress me. Even the ones over my backyard. Today, while windsurfing (an INCREDIBLE DAY) I saw a huge military transport talking off through my sail -- as I was kicking along at 30-35 mph. I love living near an airport, especially a military based one. [:D]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:50:45 PM EDT
The Air National Guard fly's 16's out of our local airport. I get the distinct pleasure of seeing them at least a couple of times a week...I think it's great. I just never get tired of aircraft, espescially military aircraft. The only problem is that I've damn near gotten into a bunch of car accidents because I'm trying to watch the airplanes! When they take off to the south they usually break into sharp turns right before or right over my place...damn that's cool. I would sacrifice appendages to be able to fly one of those. Mike
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:02:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2002 10:04:49 PM EDT by toaster]
Originally Posted By DakotaKid: I would sacrifice appendages to be able to fly one of those. Mike
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I'm with ya. I'd give my left nut to sit behind the stick of an F16. -T.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:27:12 PM EDT
Rooster, I remember that. They came down to chicago...and probably got here 8 minutes after they were at you guys in janesville. I was looking up when they flew over and they were HAULING ASS. Im just north of o'hare, so they were right at the "end" of their supersonic trip when it happened. Its weird. Seeing two planes flying like that, then a few seconds later hearing the boom. They must have been right around mach 2 at the time. My mom called me in panic wondering what that was and asked me to come home and teach her how to use my old shotgun, lmao. Also, the planes from this weekend, CHIGAGO air and water show. I'm going to be there tomorrow, I cant wait.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:33:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: What is the acronym for when a military plane is snet out to escort or shoot down a jumbo jet full of people?
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F.U.B.A.R.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:35:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: ... Whats with using the military (in this case Air Force) as a domestic police agency? That doesn't sit well with me.
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Careful what you wish for! [image]www.ar15.com/members/albums/199%2FMayberry%252001%2520jpg%2Ejpg[/image]
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 12:27:39 AM EDT
There has been much more F15 action in this area as well [since 9/11/01]. I grew up an Air Force brat watching the fighters take off all day long for the sheer enjoyment. Later I was in a Marine Corps helicopter squadron. I have no problem with military pilots training hard and fast anywhere they can get away with it. Our military personel training on U.S. soil doesn't bother me nearly as much as the politicians grabbing power, destroying the heart of the Constitution, and taking away liberties for the sake of 'saving' us. Don't worry about it... I shit my pants almost every time I pick up the paper and read what the 'good' president and attorney general has been doing to save us.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 1:45:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aviator: "Jet noise, the sound of freedom..." It always has amazed and pissed me off when people go out of their way to complain about low level military flights. The military [b]needs[/b] to practice plying like this. You don't want some guy flying several million dollars worth of hardware going to war and actually flying low level with only one or two actual low level flights a year. They take great pains to plan these low level routes in areas as uninhabited as possible, but you cannot always put em where people are not (and if you did tree huggers bitch it scares the animals anyway). Aviator [url]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/url]
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The United States military owns tens of millions of acres. Here's an idea, instead of flying over our houses, fly on your military reservations that we (the American people) interestingly aren't allowed near.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 7:47:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redmanfms: The United States military owns tens of millions of acres. Here's an idea, instead of flying over our houses, fly on your military reservations that we (the American people) interestingly aren't allowed near.
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Let's see, tens of millions of acres. Let's just call it 40 million acres for the sake of arguement. An acre is a square 209' x 209'. So a route five nautical miles wide would cover 4120 acres for every mile it flew. Call a standard low level eight turn points seperated by two minutes each, flown at 420 knots, and you've got a 98 mile route. 98 miles x 4120 acres per mile and you've got yourself a 400,000 acre route. So you are proposing all military low level flights in America be flown on about 100 routes? That would be two per state. Of course, that also assumes that all government land is owned in separate 5 by 100 mile strips. I don't think so.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 9:32:17 PM EDT
Are you one of the morons who bought a house that some dipshit developer built under the flight path at the approach / take-off end of an airport? Instead of begrudging the land that the US Military uses for training you should be screaming bloody murder over the land grabs of the eco-wacko-left-wing-liberal-commies like Bill Clinton. More "public" land has been locked out from that POS than is currently held by the US Military. "Redmanfms: The United States military owns tens of millions of acres. Here's an idea, instead of flying over our houses, fly on your military reservations that we (the American people) interestingly aren't allowed near."
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 9:44:36 PM EDT
If this topic started, and still is about WI F-16's, those planes probably came out of Madison. Where the Air National Guard is based, not to mention some Army National Guard rotary winged aircraft. I suppose we could only have military planes fly out of military bases, over military lands. But that would be terribly inconvinient for the "Citizen-Soldiers" that make up the Guard/Reserve. I think someone has some serious anger issues with the government. So what a military jet flew over me. Hey I pay taxes, I'd like to see some of what I pay for. It also must be cool for the pilots, ground crews relative's to see "their" planes going over........... Again my only complaint is they replaced the A-10's with F-16's a few years ago. A-10's rule.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 10:23:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redmanfms: The United States military owns tens of millions of acres. Here's an idea, instead of flying over our houses, fly on your military reservations that we (the American people) interestingly aren't allowed near.
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You find me land other than a few hundred acres in Iowa, Minnesota, or Wisconsin that the "military" owns and I'll kiss your ass. It would be lovely for us to have to fly to Nevada every weekend in Hueys to do low level training. Give me a break. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 10:32:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2002 10:35:43 PM EDT by DSA_Brat]
I have noticed in the last two weeks flights over my place have increased. Today I heard a new sound coming from one of them, it sounded like a muffled jet engine with a whistle. I don't mind, I run outside and try to take in the show. I love our military guys and gals and support them in all their endeavors. I wish they could land and come inside for coffee, they're always welcome here. What always fascinates me is how far ahead of the noise you must look to see them, they actually give me goose bumps when they fly by and that patriotic feeling that I love so much.
Link Posted: 8/18/2002 10:54:26 PM EDT
On the 'Air Force as Domestic Police' issue: There are no Air Force units in Wisconsin flying F-16s. Those were WI ANG aircraft (Based near Madison, at the WI ANG's sole fighter base), not USAF. Different set of rules (since they're not Federal (unless called up))... On the original topic: I've seen my share of military aircraft around Milwaukee. In addition to the KC-135's and C-130's based at Mitchell Field, the Army seems to love to use us for urban helo training excercises, so we get BlackHawks and derivatives zooming all around town, usually in the spring... However, the only time I've seen Wisconsin F-16's in flight was from another plane, specifically a KC-135. I was an AF cadet, this was an 'orientation flight', and they let us watch the planes tank up. As for figuring out the mission, the other poster was right about looking under the wings. If all they have hangin is fuel tanks, it's just a training flight (i.e. 'let's see how well you handle low-level/high-speed flight'). Anything green, or Mavericks (missiles with nose fins that extend almost to the tail, and smaller tail fins) = strike mission. And if you see long, thin missiles with small fins only, that's intercept. F-15's on the ground are easier, just count pilots (1 pilot = F-15C - intercept only, 2 pilots = F-15E - probably strike, but they can intercept if needed)...
Link Posted: 8/19/2002 5:05:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2002 5:06:54 AM EDT by Redmanfms]
Originally Posted By USNJoe: Are you one of the morons who bought a house that some dipshit developer built under the flight path at the approach / take-off end of an airport? Instead of begrudging the land that the US Military uses for training you should be screaming bloody murder over the land grabs of the eco-wacko-left-wing-liberal-commies like Bill Clinton. More "public" land has been locked out from that POS than is currently held by the US Military.
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Are you one of those assholes who thinks his cheap polyester uniform and below average educational and intelligence levels makes him lord of the fucking universe? Nope. I live in Waynesboro, VA. Look at it real closely on a map; you'll notice the only airport is municipal (no jets or military aircraft based there). I still have a large formation of Army choppers fly over my house once a month at o' dark thirty setting off car alarms. I wouldn't mind, and would probably like the free airshow if they did it during the damn day, but they don't, so yes, it pisses me off.
So you are proposing all military low level flights in America be flown on about 100 routes? That would be two per state. Of course, that also assumes that all government land is owned in separate 5 by 100 mile strips.
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Oh my GOD!!!!! Actually operating without pissing other people off!!! Using what you have!!! Horrors!! Since you yahoos already started this "you are just anti-military and don't know what you are talking about" crap I'll just appease the hurt pride of you dickless wonders who can't take criticism of how you operate by saying that I'm not anti-military and I appreciate the job that the non-dickhead members of the Armed Services are doing, but I firmly believe there is a time and place for everything, and low-level training over American towns in the middle of the night ain't one of the "right time, right place" situations.
I think someone has some serious anger issues with the government.
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Yeah, we've got land, but it ain't enough, so we're going to use yours too. Don't like that? We protect you, we know all, we know better than you, shut the fuck up and let us do our jobs. I really hate anybody/anything that has a "wht's mine is mine and what's yours is mine" mentality. Before you even post it, I know what's coming next. "I protect you (from what?) and I'll do the protecting as I see fit, and if you want to critisize pick up a rifle and stand a post." Sorry, this country isn't a military dictatorship, so if you don't like nasty little peons questioning your actions, get the fuck out.
Link Posted: 8/19/2002 5:18:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2002 5:19:38 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Your crystal ball is broke. Many planes fly over my house, I'm near an airport. If I can put up with the single engine, vanity flights, the big cargo jets, and the airline flights, I can certainly "put up with" F-16's, when it comes down to it they are just little planes, and have as much right to fly in the public airspace as any other plane. I remember seeing an F-14 flying low and slow, wing forward when I was a youth, 500 feet up right over my dad's car. The F-14 got going, it was cool to see those wings start going back. I'm sorry I have no special anger for any type of plane, unlike you. And before YOU post again remember if the standard is that military jets can only fly over military land, because they bug you. I suspect the next step will be from the anti's saying that the noise associated with gunfire must stay on the range, or private property of the person that was doing the shooting, because they are also being bugged............ [red]"I protect you (from what?) and I'll do the protecting as I see fit, and if you want to critisize pick up a rifle and stand a post."[/red] I spent 1.5 years in Germany, when there was still an East Germany and a West Germany, guarding some of America's Nuclear Weapons, very close to Czechoslovakia. Where did you/are you "standing a post"?
Link Posted: 8/19/2002 5:21:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By smarty_pants:
Originally Posted By hielo: What is the acronym for when a military plane is snet out to escort or shoot down a jumbo jet full of people?
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W.A.R.I.S.H.E.L.L Try not to cry about it to long.
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Ok, then please explain what has happened to the Posse Committatus?
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