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Posted: 8/16/2002 7:38:18 PM EDT
I got my CCW 8 years ago, during that class I saw individuals who should not OWN the weapons they were using much less carry them concealed! But yet they passed the course... They were totally clueless and dangerous.... I saw the same thing on my first 4 year renewal and the the same thing on my second 4 year renewal last week. I'm all in favor of anybody owning any firearm they want but.. All these people who obviously can't demonstrate even the simplest safe gun handling skills still seem to always pass athe CCW course. Has anyone else noticed this - or is it just me.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 7:44:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2002 7:47:49 PM EDT by deadeye47]
In my class half the people could NOT load their own magazines!!!![:E] Yup, it's pretty scary! One woman actually put several bullets in backwards![shock]
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 7:48:38 PM EDT
fuckin' dumbasses................
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 7:50:20 PM EDT
And now you begin to understand why the soccermoms are afraid of gun owners. Sometimes we [b]are[/b] our own worst enemies. Now do you guys understand why I don't go orbital over at DU? Not even a little bit? Because their side of the argument has some valid points. There are people out there who shouldn't own a gun. There are people out there who leave loaded guns where kids can find them. There are irresponsible a**holes who don't have a criminal record. I'm trying to convince them that those mentally challenged and/or morally bankrupt (but not criminal {yet}) people have a [i]constitutionally protected [b]RIGHT[/b][/i] to endanger themselves, their families, and their neighbors. That's a tough job.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 7:50:26 PM EDT
Atleast people are trying
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 8:40:06 PM EDT
You are right Kbaker! I'm sure women in particular want to "feel" safer carring a gun but the sad truth is other than going to pick one out and the CC class that will be the extent of their experience. The sales jerk who told her Yeah, this HK .45 will drop um cold is partly to blame. His sale of the HK far over shadowed the CharterArms or Taurus 38 snubby. Hard to put them in backwards in a wheelgun! Yup ,this is what gives the anti's the ammo!
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:18:56 PM EDT
We can not have it both ways... The Second Ammendment protect idiots too. [:D]
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:31:55 PM EDT
That's why more knowledgeable and experienced gun owners need to help those who lack the expertise, and not just sit back thinking "what a bunch of dumbasses", and waiting for someone else to do it. Makes no difference if you're in a CCW class, at the range, or out somewhere plinking. When we see someone doing something wrong we need to be proactive. Someone might even appreciate the effort.
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:45:00 PM EDT
The sales jerk who told her Yeah, this HK .45 will drop um cold is partly to blame. His sale of the HK far over shadowed the CharterArms or Taurus 38 snubby
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Not to jump off topic, but the correlation to blue hairs driving here in South Florida is the same - the used car guy could care less if Granny [i]can[/i] drive - as long as she's got that Florida Drivers License and insurance he'll sell her a car... ...OK, sorry about that.. you gotta live here to feel the pain :)
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:54:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By deadeye47: In my class half the people could NOT load their own magazines!!!![:E] Yup, it's pretty scary! One woman actually put several bullets in backwards![shock]
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Man, you and I must have attended the same course. In my class, the woman had no idea how to shoot or even load her gun. When she started loading the bullets in backwards the instructor immediately pulled her off the firing line and told her to come back when she had a better understanding of how her weapon worked and how to shoot as it was not his job to teach her these things. She then left in quite a huff. He also told anyone who failed to hit the target that he would fail them immediately. Fortunately no one did. I enjoyed my class, but my shooting was off that day. I ended up with a decent amount of groin/gut shots, though I had plenty of points to pass. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:57:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FirearmTom1: We can not have it both ways... The Second Ammendment protect idiots too. [:D]
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That's absolutely right. Freedom != security, and the two are not necessarily mutually inclusive. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:31:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FirearmTom1: We can not have it both ways... The Second Ammendment protect idiots too. [:D]
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I agree. But try to convince a soccermom of that. Tough job.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:42:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2002 10:44:19 AM EDT by Boomholzer]
There was only a few idiots in my class, the mandatory "stupid guy" who asked all the pointles questions over and over and had every point evade him was in the top 10% for accuracy during the shoot. Only one woman could not pass the range test. The instructor offereed her hands on lessons at a later date. Lots of problems with individuals with not enough experience with thier firearm to quickly clear a FTF. That was just the class I attended. The range I shoot at has CCW classes on a bi-weekly basis and they'll share the range with me (another range shooters) during the exercise. I probably watched about 20 groups of five come through there and by about 50% percentage could actually handle their weapon proficiently in all aspects. Unfortunately in our day and age; common sense is not a abundant resource. Individuals who display common sense are an endangered species. Edited to add that even though some of these indivuals make you nervious, CCW holders in TX have a very low occurance of accident, mishap or misjudgement with their weapon.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 10:46:17 AM EDT
Yes it is a farce, but it's pronounced: R-E-V-E-N-U-E.[:D]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 12:01:00 PM EDT
I usually see these combat handgun courses taught by some old retired Navy SEAL or someone in that order. These courses lasting only one afternoon costing a couple hundred dollars or more aren't worth the money for the little training and information you will recieve in one day especially when there are about 10 other "students" with you that day. One is basically paying this guy big money just because he used to be a SEAL some 30 years ago. I'd rather pay big money to a champion civilian IPSC shooter to give me tips on drawing my weapon and practicing tactical mag changes. [b]ArmaLiter[/b]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 1:21:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2002 1:24:08 PM EDT by JasonDemond]
When I did the shooting part of the course, I used my S&W 686 and white box Winchester .38 specials. There was one guy who brought a Ruger P89(9MM). He just couldn't understand why the .45's he had brought would not fit in his magazine.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 1:36:39 PM EDT
AMEN!
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 6:52:54 PM EDT
I renewed my Texas CHL today and for a four hour class that took almost 7 hours I'm beat. There were 19 people in the class and we spent more time doing the paperwork and fingerprinting than we did classwork and shooting. Shooting was the best part of the day. Got in a hurry and dropped one shot and shot a 249 out of a possible 250. You must shoot at least 175 to pass. All 19 passed but several were very close. There were four guys who had to [B]rent[/B]guns for the course. Why do you have a CHL and not have a gun??? Note to self...find a smaller class in 2006 next time.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 7:34:56 PM EDT
The original poster almost had a point but.......... When I got my CCW I did not have to touch a weapon. Two hour course and a 1/2hr. test. The answers were covered in the course and emphasized again prior to the test. Guess how many ND occurances or wrongful shootings or [b]any[/b] infractions have occurred in my county in the last twenty years attributed to a CCW holder. [b]ZERO[/b]. The yearly average # of holders in the county for that time is 250. One fourth of them are idiots. Safe idiots, it would seem. Those that feel the need get training. The rest either know what they are doing or leave their gun in the underwear drawer. Works for me. Costs me $10.00 a year to renew, and I have never had to prove squat, other than a cursory backround check. If you think only trained marksmen should carry, you are wrong. Any sort of "yes,but you should" is just the first meter of a ride down a very steep slippery slope.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 8:12:09 PM EDT
I think AR-10 has a good point. Most of these "idiots" you see at a class don't want to carry a gun all the time. They just want the permit. The gun goes right back into the sock drawer or up in the top of the closet. I guess they feel a little bit safer if they have a permit to cary a gun.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 8:59:18 PM EDT
We are missing the point here guys(in my way of thinking) as these people have the right to own these guns,then the money was well spent. That same little old man or lady would have bought that pistol,took it home and put one or more(hell maybe all the shells in backwards) then what good would it have been? Now I agree that when I took my class there were a lot of older,and younger people there that had no clue of which end of that pistol was the bussiness end. But before it was all over they had learned a little legal,and gun safety facts,as well as being able to hit a target at ten feet. I'm scared shitless at the thought of one of those Grey Panthers ,with a charged pistol aimed anywhere in the same general direction I might be standing. Id rather go up against John Dillenger with a sawed off than a scared GP with a loaded gun! So if it helps people to own,carry or shoot then it has been time and monnies well spent. Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:19:12 PM EDT
I've heard that in Florida all you have to do to pass is fire one round... I took the Hunter's Ed. course for my hunting lisence and that required me to fire something like 20 rounds or so through a Rifle and a Shotgun...and if you did anything unsafe you failed immediately. Instructor said he's faile dpeople for sweeping him with the shotgun...I don't want them in the woods when I'm out there.
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:38:07 PM EDT
Am I the only one who gets pissed at the fact you have to pay a state government a fee to do something the constitution says you can do for free?
Link Posted: 8/17/2002 9:50:02 PM EDT
Gopher It seems the constitution allows that anything not directly covered(I know the constitution says you have the right to own and bear arms) Will be covered by the state government. And as you know each state has its own laws pertaining to CCW. I don't know for a fact,but I think in Ari you can carry outside the clothes. Like Poncho Villa said wear your gun in plain sight to keep the honest men honest. So as long as your state says it is so,until you can fight it and win in a higher court so it will be. Bob [8D]
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