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Posted: 8/5/2002 9:07:43 AM EDT
[b]Navy attempts to diversify elite force[/b] CORONADO, California (AP) --The Navy SEAL unit is one of the most elite in the U.S. military, but one of its toughest battles has come on the home front: attracting more minorities. However, the special warfare branch -- historically one of the military's whitest segments -- has started succeeding in the past three years with a campaign that sends recruiters to predominantly black schools. Since 1997, the share of minorities among the 1,600 enlisted SEALs has risen from just 9 percent to 13 percent, and from 6 percent to nearly 10 percent for the 600 SEAL officers, according to figures compiled by the RAND Institute and Naval Special Warfare Command. Last month, the SEALs' recruiting effort was honored by the NAACP for its success in increasing diversity as well as changing mindsets within the tight-knit organization. The top SEAL, Rear Adm. Eric Olson, said the biggest barrier to attracting minorities is perception, not qualification. Minority applicants have graduated from the punishing six-month screening process -- which eliminates seven out of every 10 who attempt it -- at the same rate as whites, he said. "The problem has been getting them to show up in numbers," said Olson. Many minorities either never considered the SEALs, he said, or believed they had no chance of being accepted. "The sense that we are an elite force prevented some who had the ability, the potential, to serve as SEALs from starting that journey." Practical diversity A 1999 RAND study, commissioned by Congress, found that blacks were underrepresented in the SEALs and other military special operations units, and it noted that the Sea-Air-Land force was widely perceived as a "white" organization. Olson, who assumed command of Naval Special Warfare in Coronado that same year, said he believes diversity is both "simply right" and practical for a force that routinely operates around the globe, often in secret. "The more diverse we are, the more we are in some way like the people in the places we go, the more quickly and successfully we can do what we went there to do," Olson said. In 1999, 18 minorities signed up for SEAL training, and seven graduated. In February, there were 57 minority candidates, with 18 graduating. The SEALs' share of minorities still lags the Navy's, where minorities are 17 percent of the 400,000 sailors and 20 percent of its 76,000 officers, but that could change over time, as more minorities complete the 21/2 years of training to become a full-fledged SEAL team member. As with other front-line combat positions, women are barred from special forces. As of 1999, 61 percent of possible positions in the Army were open to women, 91 percent in the Navy, 62 percent in the Marines and 99 percent in the Air Force. The major fields closed to women include infantry, armor, special forces/SEAL and submarine warfare.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 9:08:50 AM EDT
Recruiting, mentoring The SEALS went outside the ranks to find a leader for its diversity effort -- Dr. Warren Lockette, the force's 47-year-old civilian medical officer. Lockette, who is black and led integration efforts at two Michigan medical schools, has sent white SEAL operators to recruit at predominantly black high schools, hoping that both the recruiter and his audience learn from the experience, and he set up mentoring for minority SEALs. As a member of the selection board for SEAL officers, he also has challenged candidates to bring something unique to the organization, be it fluency in the Indonesian language or a graduate degree in oceanology. "What I want people to do is not feel they have limitations," said Lockette. He met one of his recruits, Richard Witt, when the Hispanic graduate student was at the University of Michigan researching the physical stresses on SEAL trainees. Now a junior-grade lieutenant, Witt has talked up the SEALs to Navy ROTC students at colleges and high schools. "The word is getting out, and now there is a system in place that continues to help others in the future as well," Witt said via e-mail from an undisclosed location overseas, where he is on an anti-terrorism mission. "I am an example of this system." [url]http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/05/navy.seal.minorities.ap/index.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 9:14:53 AM EDT
[i]"What I want people to do is not feel they have limitations," said Lockette.[/i] Sounds more like he wants [i]his people[/i] rather than [i]people[/i] to not feel as though they have limitations...BTW everyone has limitations...nothing to be ashamed of simple one of the laws of nature...and the decisison of the Almighty... He led the charge to get more minorities or more blacks into med schools? seems to me he ought to be more concerned with simply making sure the "best and the brightest" people get into med school or the SEALs..less concerned with promoting what he considers "his own kind" vs the good of the service...PC madness...will destroy the country..but who cares as long as our agendas get realized...screw quality...
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 9:36:52 AM EDT
Same old bullshit.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 9:47:03 AM EDT
Hmmm.... I was stationed in Coronado for a bit and I thought the SEAL were as diverse the the reg fleet Navy in proportionate to their size. I did not see a problem at all. Although most of the SEAL officer were white, the enlisted ranks included Chinese, Blacks, yes even Filipino(I am specially proud of em for this, being Filipino myself) With that said. I hope they are not lowering the qualifying standards just to meet this "diversity" crap.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 9:47:48 AM EDT
affirmative action invades the warrior community. its all im going to say because if i say more, ill be fuckin banned from here.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 9:59:47 AM EDT
I've never seen a any negroes surfing, either. And i'm out in the water every other day.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:18:05 AM EDT
White man can't jump. Black man can't swim. Didn't anyone watch any of the "Survivor" series? There wasn't a single black man on that show who didn't sink like a rock in the water. Remember Gervase? Sean? Any time they had to swim they flailed around like a fish out of...[:D]
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:18:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:22:13 AM EDT
With the SEALs operating in in a diverse territory, you need a diverse group. If the perception has been that the SEALs, as an example, as a "whites only" group, then that perception needs to be changed. Please note that I said the perception, not the rules and qualifications. Anyone, regardless of race, who can pass the course should be allowed to serve. Period.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:27:26 AM EDT
Encouraging people of different ethnicities = OK. Changing the high standards for SEAL by one millimeter = Not OK. The article doesn't mention anything about changing standards, so its fine by me. The more people who attempt to become SEALs, the more SEALs there will be. And so long as the standards stay as high as they are currently, that only means that the US can become stronger. It's only when standards are changed that weakeness is allowed in.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:28:24 AM EDT
PC bullshit at it's finest!
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:34:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: White man can't jump. Black man can't swim. Didn't anyone watch any of the "Survivor" series? There wasn't a single black man on that show who didn't sink like a rock in the water. Remember Gervase? Sean? Any time they had to swim they flailed around like a fish out of...[:D]
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YES !!!! you are correct sir !!! [:D] how many olympic swimmers are black ?? It's sooooo damn simple !!! You set the standards where they need to be to have the best unit possible and anyone who meets those standards gets in. DUH !!!!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:59:33 AM EDT
I saw a story the other day about the 2000 census. Apparently, enough caucasian people are black. Similarly, reporting numbers for asian hispanics are down.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 2:12:44 PM EDT
This should be the number one priority in the military. Getting the job done is not enough, it's who does it that counts. [;)]
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 2:25:06 PM EDT
I don't have any problem with minorities in the SEALs or any other branch as long as they meet the same qualifications as everyone else. What I don't like is the liberal idea that any organization is bad if it does not have the same race ratio as the population as a whole.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 2:29:58 PM EDT
lol
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 2:36:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 2:37:28 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
What is the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus doing to "reach out" to whites so that caucasians are more properly represented (proportional to the whole population) in their organizations - especially in the higher levels of their organizations??
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 3:09:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: What is the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus doing to "reach out" to whites so that caucasians are more properly represented (proportional to the whole population) in their organizations - especially in the higher levels of their organizations??
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That's kind of like asking "why aren't there any negros in the KKK?"
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 3:21:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By agtm:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: What is the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus doing to "reach out" to whites so that caucasians are more properly represented (proportional to the whole population) in their organizations - especially in the higher levels of their organizations??
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That's kind of like asking "why aren't there any negros in the KKK?"
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I didn't realize the KKK was a "non-profit" organization or got tens of millions of dollars of Federal Funding each year.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 3:24:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 3:24:49 PM EDT by agtm]
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By agtm:
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: What is the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus doing to "reach out" to whites so that caucasians are more properly represented (proportional to the whole population) in their organizations - especially in the higher levels of their organizations??
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That's kind of like asking "why aren't there any negros in the KKK?"
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I didn't realize the KKK was a "non-profit" organization or got tens of millions of dollars of Federal Funding each year.
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I didn't realize the NAAPC was. Add another to my store of disgusting facts, thanks.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 3:26:16 PM EDT
Yeah, that's JUST what I want to see...Affirmative action. I have personnaly been affected by this. It does NOT pay to be a big, Christian white guy anymore.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 3:27:55 PM EDT
If they say that the Navy SEALs are too white, then I say the NBA is too black. Why's there all this affirmative action/lower standard crap in the Government and in industry these days but none in the NBA? Many minorities these days are totally spoiled and outrageous in their demands. The amount of minorities being racist against whites is just absolutely ridiculous. While obvious human garbage like Louis Farrakan spew their racist anti-caucasian rhetoric, a government worker gets fired for not hiring enough blacks for certain positions. There's a Black Entertainment Television. No One says it's racist. What if there's a White Entertainment Television? Minorities would jump all over it screaming racism and start whining and complaining to no end. There are all-black fraternities on college campuses, but no all-white fraternities at all because they'd be racist (Yes, even KA Order has blacks now). The amount of double standards these days is beyond belief. I think whites should protest the fact that blacks are over-represented in the NBA if minorities want to keep whining. There's a movie out there called "White Man Can't Jump." Ok, fine. That's fine because white people know better than to be ridiculously sensitive and can take a joke. What if they came out with a movie called, "Black Man can't ______"? I guarentee you that the whole NAACP and all the militant racist blacks would jump all over it screaming that it's racist. This PC crap these days is just unbelievable. White cop hits black thug on tv? Racist! Black cop hits white thug on tv? No one is even going to think that the cop was racist. I'm not saying that all minorities are like that but there certainly are lots out there. I've seen TONS of minorities take this attitude. Whenever something goes wrong or they don't get picked for something, they instantly play the racist card and think that there's discrimination. It is utter crap. As regarding the SEALs, it shouldn't matter whether the guy who tries out is white, black, hispanic, asian, native american, etc etc. The only thing that should matter is whether he can cut it in BUD/S or not.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 4:07:06 PM EDT
Lockette - "set up mentoring for minority SEALS." That's all I needed to hear. What I want to know is when those men are in combat and have to depend on each other, what's the guy going to do without his "mentor" helping him to make the standard. I do not believe that race, religon, or any other personel factor should make you less qualified for a position..... But I don't think it should make you MORE qualified either.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 4:10:00 PM EDT
The only way they are going to get more blacks into the SEELS (isn't that how the mall ninja spelled it?) is if they do away with the swimming part. Then they will just call them AL (Air, Land)! [:D] Why doesn't the Army do something about the Delta force? They are whitest of all the SF groups. Gotta be PC, even if it means getting folks killed... C4
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 4:15:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:38:57 PM EDT
The way I understand the story, the requirements are not being changed, they are just trying to recruit more minorities. I think its a good idea. I'm white, and I know better than to think I could operate undercover in China or Somalia. A white faces stands out in most of the world.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 6:03:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 6:05:02 PM EDT by 302HO]
Good grief!! What the hell is wrong with people? Blue, black, white, orange, green, purple, yellow, red................... Who gives a damn what race or religion is among the special ops community, ball teams, schools or whatever. Personally i think individuals who pick out what percentage of race is involved in groups as described in the above paragraph are racists. Call me a shitbird, but thats what i think. I mean.......who cares!??! Ya know.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 6:10:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 302HO: Good grief!! What the hell is wrong with people? Blue, black, white, orange, green, purple, yellow, red................... Who gives a damn what race or religion is among the special ops community, ball teams, schools or whatever. Personally i think individuals who pick out what percentage of race is involved in groups as described in the above paragraph are racists.
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Steve... it is absolutely critical that the percentage of seals that are black be 13% - the same as their proportion of the general population. If they are not then how will society function properly? An injustice, no?
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 7:04:23 PM EDT
It's a wonder that civlization hasn't collapsed because the national ratio of 5'2" Asian folk isn't represented in the NBA, or that NASCAR hasn't been reaching out to minorities. As in professional sports, it's about being able to do the job at hand. I think this whole "minority self-esteem" thing is getting out of control. With the current class fallout rates, they should spend their timer recruiting across the board.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 7:22:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Disgustipated: The way I understand the story, the requirements are not being changed, they are just trying to recruit more minorities.
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First: Why? We are NEVER going to be a nation that stops looking at a person's skin color (which was after all "The Dream" of Martin Luther King) until, well, we stop looking at a person's skin color. There ARE in fact "minorities" (I do hate that word) in the Spec-Ops. If the SEALS were ALL white I would say "hmm, something fishy MAY be going on here." which I would also say if the SEALS were all "minorities". So that being the case, why does anyone give a rats behind if it's one, two, or three, (whatever) percent under or over what a group of liberal Founding Father hating, America bashing marxist (the aforementioned NAACP) jackasses think? And Second: When they allowed women in they said "we are not going to change any standards to accomodate women." But guess what? After the women were in, the feminazis said "the standards discriminate against women because more women fail them than men." And just like that, they changed the standard to accomodate women. Outstanding.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 7:54:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 7:55:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 8:14:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: The sad thing is that some of the people reading this story really think that the SEAL teams are going to lower their scores or go easy on anybody for any reason. Those readers missed the part where miniorities fail at the same rate as white canidates. Nothing in there about why - swimming or jumping, just the same rate. I guess that's bullshit. Just like in the National Football League where the PC types have lowered the standards for the linebackers so that minorities can participate. To hell with gathing more people in the input stage to recruit the best and brightest. That sure sucks. I want recuitment to be narrow and limited. I don't see a real need to have the best working in the most elite special forces in the US Military. They do have to look like me though. I'm sure that the SEALS are going to lower their standards so that soon women and the wheelchair bound are accepted. [whacko]
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You're ignoring the track record of these PC liberal do-gooders when they get their meat-hooks on the military - i.e. women in the military. [%|] So when they exhaust these "recruiting drive" efforts to increase minority SEALS, do you REALLY think they'll just pack up and go home??? No f@cking way! This is the shot across the bow of the military elite. They fucked up the requirements for the regular grunts with their sh!tty, watered-down women's standards, this is just Act II of their efforts do destroy the entire Military. Remember, their King-In-Exile and his Empress-In-Waiting just "loathe the military".
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 8:39:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 8:45:22 PM EDT by bobbyjack]
Well it's just too broad a picture to color it black or white,I'm sure there are many philipinno,japanise,hawaian,coral reef free divers that can harvest pearls with-out the aid of scuba or other modern means of gear,that would be great SEALS. Should they wanted to,The appaches would also have made many a ranger think (damn do I have what it takes). But the golf world only had Che Chee Rodriqious Till The Tiger came about,and Tennis Has the Williams Sisters! But There are no really good competitive black swimmers,and in the seals it's all about top competition! So it's time for that barrior to be broken,So lets get to it ! Bob [:D] Edited to say Wouldn't Kevin Koshner(Gill ears) make a good SEAL?
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 8:42:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 8:44:42 PM EDT by Backstop]
Disgustipated has a valid point- caucasians stick out like sore thumbs in many places. But believe me when I say our military has folks who can blend in with the indigenous population. I find it unthinkable the the Spec Op community would lower their standards for the sake of diversity. I wish our government had the balls to tell those derriere fornicators like the NAACP to "shut the fvck up and go home!" I wonder when Jesse Jerkoff is gonna jump on this. Why the hell does he talk out the side of his mouth? Is that a Freudian Congenital Birth Defect? Know why SEALs are too white? They're frozen and bleached from all that salt water!![:D] Edited because I don't know how to make a big smile.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 9:57:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By Paul: I'm sure that the SEALS are going to lower their standards so that soon women and the wheelchair bound are accepted. [whacko]
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You're ignoring the track record of these PC liberal do-gooders when they get their meat-hooks on the military - i.e. women in the military. [%|] So when they exhaust these "recruiting drive" efforts to increase minority SEALS, do you REALLY think they'll just pack up and go home??? No f@cking way! This is the shot across the bow of the military elite. They fucked up the requirements for the regular grunts with their sh!tty, watered-down women's standards, this is just Act II of their efforts do destroy the entire Military.
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I just watched part of 'Basic Training' on the history channel. Men get 8 mins 30 secs to run a mile; women another two mins. Level playing field my ass!
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:38:16 PM EDT
well, i guess hte seals need to just get more elite minorities. maybe they should put out adds for the equal oppertuinity elite special warfare unit. maybe we will get to see afirmitive action in the seals now. wouldnt that be grand.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 12:20:33 AM EDT
"mentoring for minority SEALs" Preferential treatment. No arguing this point - it is a fact. Just like the recycling of female students when I was in "A" school. If a male flunked a phase, he immediately went to the fleet as a non-designated seaman and began chipping paint. If a female flunked a training phase, she was cycled into a fresh class to give it another try.... Sad. It IS a slippery slope. FACT.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 7:21:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: White man can't jump. Black man can't swim. Didn't anyone watch any of the "Survivor" series? There wasn't a single black man on that show who didn't sink like a rock in the water. Remember Gervase? Sean? Any time they had to swim they flailed around like a fish out of...[:D]
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This is VERY TRUE...and is not prejudiced, racial, etc. Watch the Olympics and you will almost NEVER SEE any blacks competing in the swimming events except for MAYBE diving. The reason is they genetically have extremely dense muscle mass which is contrary to swimming sports. From what I've seen and read about SEAL swimming requirements, this is not a surprising issue. For those "minority blacks" that DO make it into the SEALS...more power to them! I bet they are some very motivated individuals (what SEAL isn't?).
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 10:22:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 10:24:03 AM EDT by uglygun]
I hardly doubt that a swimmer needs to be an olympic caliber swimmer inorder to stand a chance in the SEALs so drawing comparisons based upon how many blacks you see in the olympics isn't really quite fair. If foreign countries wanted to, they could get swimmers into the olympics but it would essentially be the same as the Jamacian bobsled team. Of my 25 years on this planet I've spent approximately 16 of them as a competitive swimmer(highschool champ in the pool, spent time with a college team, and have done ocean swims on Ca. coast) and I gotta say that it's rare to see decent competitive minority swimmers. There have been maybe 2-3 black swimmers that I have remembered over the years that have been worthy competition, this comes from traveling up and down the Ca. valley competing both in the pool and in the ocean. Think of all the black lifeguards you've ever seen on the beach, I bet that's a real short list. It's just the reality of the situation, a lot of blacks aren't water oriented people. There are certainly exceptions to the rule but for a large part it's a safe assumption to reach. Becoming a water oriented person doesn't happen over night either, if a person doesn't have an opportunity to be around water it's not likely they are going to become physically capable or mentally aware of things like rip tides, coastal flows, what it's like to swim 1-2 miles or much less 1k yards. I consider myself pretty knowledgable about the water as I've been around it my whole life, but to somebody who isn't even 1/4 as comfortable about the water the thought of going into the SEALs is gonna be the farthest thing from their mind. After all these years around water you'd think I'd be relatively used to the cold water, WRONG. I downright HATE cold water, take somebody who doesn't know what it's like to be so cold that they are beyond shaking(get out of the water and have to warm up to shake) and there is even more remote of a chance that they will want to stick around once they are exposed to it in BUD/s. I just find it funny that all these things just fly right over the heads of people who are concerned with the ethnic make up of the SEAL teams. Really, does it take a genious to figure those things out? Let's remove the race factor from this, of the people who make it through BUD/s how many of them come from areas like Mid-western farm towns where they've seen very little activity in the water or how many of them have come from huge cities like Chicago? Compare that to the numbers that have likely come from coastal areas or people who have a wide range of experience around water. All the power in the world though to those who have the mental and physical strength to tough it out whether it's on land or in the sea.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 10:29:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Belloc: First: Why? We are NEVER going to be a nation that stops looking at a person's skin color
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Sometimes it ain't smart to ignore the color of a persons skin. If the police decide to have a stakeout in Harlem you better pay attention to skin color if you want to succeed. As mentioned previously, a more diverse force will give the SEAL's more flexibility in some of their operations. It isn't about holding their hand and cutting them some slack that their paler classmates aren't getting, it's about seeking them out and encouraging them to give it a shot at the program in the first place. Nothing wrong with that. The military often recruits people with particular language skills. They don't do this so they can maintain the correct ratios of languages in the military- they do it because there is a need for those skills. Skin color isn't exactly a skill, but in the right circumstances it can be valuable asset.
And just like that, they changed the standard to accomodate women.
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Not exactly true. In the Navy at least, the physical fitness standards for women have always been lower [:(!]
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 10:54:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By raven: As a member of the selection board for SEAL officers, he also has challenged candidates to bring something unique to the organization, be it fluency in the Indonesian language or a graduate degree in oceanology.
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I will sleep better tonight knowing that if I am chained to a radiator in some third world hell hole with an AK barrel stuck in my ear, the man who kicks in the door in an attempt to kill my captor, before I become strawberry jam, will have been chosen based on his knowledge of oceanology.
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Read it again. He ain't talking about oceanology instead of combat skills, he's talking about oceanology in addition to combat skills. It's not an issue of making a tradeoff. Why wouldn't you want them to have more knowledge and information when they come to get your ass off the radiator? Their degree might not matter at the instant they pull the trigger, but it might matter when they examine charts to estimate water currents and take the quickest, least fatiguing route to find you. It might be important when they evaluate likely areas that have been mined so they avoid those on the way out. It might make a difference between leaving on a fast rubber boat versus swimming because the tidal range was so severe it left your boat high and dry 300 yards away from the water at a time you need it most. And it could be worth while to evaluate insertion and extraction areas to make sure that the wave action ain't going to pound your rescuers to strawberry jam while you're upstairs getting buttf**ked by Abdul. Personally, if I was the one tied to the radiator I'd want someone with as much talent, skill, knowledge, and education as possible.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 1:22:06 PM EDT
Hows this for an odd point of view... Your tax dollars are being spent trying to find minorities worthy of being in the SEALS. The recruitment effort, which is definitely geared toward finding minorities, probably costs more than standard recruiting. Save the money, let the chips fall where they may.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 1:33:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DevilsAdvocate: The recruitment effort, which is definitely geared toward finding minorities, probably costs more than standard recruiting.
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How so? Does it cost more to visit a "black" or "hispanic" high school or college than it does to visit a "white" one?
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 7:06:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2002 7:58:01 AM EDT
I am a fairly competative person as well as being fairly well educated. I have competed in sports from football at several different levels to weightlighting, diving, racquetball, running and shooting events to mention a few. I have also had the good fortune to work with and train with Special Forces, SEALS, Delta, SWAT, SRT, PSD, Rangers, Pathfinders and I will gladly say that I don't give a rats ass what color, sex, religion or sexual orientation you are as long as you have met the same standards as each and every other member of the team then you are good enough to fight along side of me or come rescue my ass when the time come. BUT if for ANY reason you can't make the team standards the way they are without any help or special rules and you want to put yourself out their with me or some other team and risk their lives and mission because you felt left out or because some political shit for brains felt like there needed to be more "color" in the Spec Ops community and you are the one who bought in to it and took the handout of joining on lowered standards then don't be surprised when the shit hits the fan in more than one way when you join a team.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:52:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: So in order to retain high standards we shouldn't allow minorities into the SEAL teams.....
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Who said that , Paul? I can't find that post.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 12:06:16 PM EDT
I remember in USMC bootcamp that ALL of the black recruits (some 200 or so) failed the swim qual. ALL had to stay back for remedial swim. We "other" recruits weren't able to see what this remedial swim qual was. My guess is that they just waited until those who passed got back to the squad bays and then let the black guys go home late, so as to make it look like they did something special. I don't judge on color, I judge by character and merit. But it would be considered racist by the public for me to point out the fact that most blacks can't swim. Not all, just most.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 12:50:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2002 12:54:32 PM EDT by zonan]
Originally Posted By jsprag: As mentioned previously, a more diverse force will give the SEAL's more flexibility in some of their operations.
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People keep saying this. The only place that having a lot more blacks would help would be for a mission in Africa. By your argument, the best colored people for the job would be middle-asian, maybe arab, because they can look like the widest variety of races. Seen the pictures of SOF in afghan? The white guys can look pretty close to the indigenous population, with a deep tan and a beard (and smelly rags for clothing) you can't tell them apart. In this situation, like most in middle east/asian countries, a black person would actually stand out much more. I just don't see the merit of your argument, unless we decide to go back to somalia.
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