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Posted: 8/2/2002 7:17:46 AM EDT
Yesterday's news from California about the abducted teenage girls, coupled with the fact that I have a 12 year old daughter, caused me to do some serious thinking. Thank God the two girls are still alive, but they were both raped, and will probably have some really tough emotional problems to deal with. What if the two boys had been armed and trained in the use of their weapons? Looking back on my dating career, from age 16 until I got married at 21, I never took a girl on a date without my trusty .357 Mag in the glove compartment of my vehicle. And yes, I went out almost every weekend. The vehicles were registered to my Daddy, as was the revolver that he gave me for my 16th birthday. Daddy told me that the gun was not to be talked about or pulled on anyone unless I intended to use it to kill someone or something in self defense or in defense of my passenger. I'll leave it for you to decide if I was "professionally" trained or not. Daddy was a master sergeant/DI in the US Army for 8 years, was an expert with rifle and pistol. He started working with me at age 10. He did not turn me loose with the .357 until we went shooting and I demonstrated proper loading/unloading, safe handling etc. I was able to shoot a six round group at 25 yards that was one large ragged hole. My dates were well protected, and the only thing I ever shot was the occaisional water moccasin while fishing. Enough about me, getting back to the topic, I've decided that when the inevitable occurs in a few years and my daughter's interests shift from riding horses and doing stuff with Daddy to dating boys, there are going to be some requirements that must be met. Any young man that wants to take her out is going to have to be packing more iron on his hip or in his glove compartment than he has hanging from his ears, nose, eyebrows, tongue, etc. He will need to make at least one trip with me to the backyard range to prove his proficiency with his weapon, and to see what the old man is capable of doing to him should he fail to protect my baby or keep her out parking past 2am. [;)] What do ya'll think????
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 7:23:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 7:27:09 AM EDT
You're right jetcsa! It's up to each and everyone of us to not only protect our loved ones but to also train them and their friends to defend themselves. "The Great Equalizer" is only a tool for us to use in that defense. I only wish we could make the masses understand this. There will always be psychos to deal with so we simply need an army of upstanding, responsible gun owners to stand prepared to deal with it. Take care of that girl! I have a 9 year old son and another one on the way in February so, like you, I'm feeling a serious burden to protect them and my wife. BBURN
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 7:34:19 AM EDT
My daughter is 3, but I've been thinking about this also. I don't know if I want her boyfriend/date packing, but I know that I want her to be able to pack and know how to handle herself and a weapon (and my son as well, he's 1yo). I really need to get out of Illinois. This world is so screwed up, but the only thing we can do is prepare them as best we can. You can never anticipate every circumstance, but too many parents do not prepare their kids for the dangers and perils that are very real in the world.
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 7:41:23 AM EDT
I am lucky, my daughter is 25 and her defense is up to her and her X Marine husband. Unfortunately she is anti-gun and he is a wuss but they are of age and on their own. I chose the best solution. I refuse to live in any city or a state like PRK etc. where this type thing is common. If you do, and care about your children, MOVE.
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 7:41:32 AM EDT
Thank you for the ideas.
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 7:43:05 AM EDT
Sounds like a plan; good luck implementing it. I don't think it would work out in most areas. Your daughter might be limited dating to LEOs. I assume you intend to teach your daughter to shoot. A couple would have a better chance if they both pulled down at the same time. [:)] When my daughter had her first "serious" relationship (21 or so) and started talking about gettting married, I gave the young man a pistol and taught him how to use it (he was a college student and it was a Beretta 92). She didn't marry that guy (but the community gained a responsible gun owner)so now I have to go through this whole process again. KIDS!
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 7:49:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vector_Joe: My daughter is 3, but I've been thinking about this also. I don't know if I want her boyfriend/date packing.....
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So, the boyfriend/date is not allowed to protect himself because he's dating your daughter? Sheesh.
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:03:18 AM EDT
Well, I think you're mostly right, but a little off-target. My daughter is 17 and I've apparently been considering some of the same issues that you've been thinking about. Your notion that your daughter will need to be protected by some other person (their date in this case) is a little off the mark, IMO. Specifically, you ought to train her (or have her trained) well so that she depends solely on her own resources (e.g. firearms) for her protection. Statistically, I think your or my daughter would be more likely to be a victim of "date rape" than something like what happened in CA. My daughter turns 18 in about 10 months and I'm planning on getting her a Sig-Sauer 232. Prior to that I'm taking pains to show her every incidence of kidnapping/rape that shows-up in the media. It's my intent to shred every bit of that "It can never happen to me" mindset that many women seem especially susceptible to. (No offense intended to you ladies...just my observation.) Additionally, I want her to take a class or two that will help her know when lethal force is Ok (legalities) and how to set her "perimeters". BTW, before the whole dating thing was an issue for our daughter, my wife and I pretty much layed-down the rule that there would be no one-on-one dates until she was 16. Additionally, we have to personally know the guy she's going to go out with...or at least his parents. Although this was not received well, it has turned out extremely well...even my daughter will (very) begrudgingly admit that! Good luck with those chillens! Kevin
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:24:55 AM EDT
oslow, Done deal on teaching the daughter to shoot. She got a .243 single shot to deer hunt with for her last birthday. She does still need some practice with pistols and rifles. She does OK, but its not as natural for her as it is with my 8 year old, who just purchased with his money(I signed for it and keep it locked up unless I'm with him) a pre-ban E.A. AR15. He knows the difference in a pre/post ban and that he could not use Daddy's tops if he bought a post. We go to friendly gunshops and gunshows. Under my supervision, he will ask to handle various weapons. He will look the weapon over before he touches it, decide how to clear it, then pick it up and do so with it pointed in a safe direction. If he cannot decide how to check/clear a gun he will have the dealer hand it to me so I can do so. I feel very blessed/lucky to have a wife and two kids who enjoy guns and shooting. LarryG, Vector_Joe may change his tune when that daughter hits her teens and starts filling out her t-shirt and he sees a few more news stories like the one from yesterday.[;)]
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:28:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jetcsa: Any young man that wants to take her out is going to have to be packing more iron on his hip or in his glove compartment than he has hanging from his ears, nose, eyebrows, tongue, etc.
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Most definately!!!![soapbox]
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:31:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2002 8:32:48 AM EDT by Vector_Joe]
Larry, I didn't say that he couldn't. I'm just saying that you know teenage girls... they aren't always the best judge of character. I just don't want some guy able to do bad things to her because he has a gun. It really depends on the guy. Hopefully we are teaching her how to judge character, etc. But teenage girls........... Basically I'm saying the same thing as Spudgunner.
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:33:22 AM EDT
I'm going to protect her. I'm going on all her dates with her till she's married. And I won't let her get married till I know the hubby is a qualified concealed guy. No Prob.... [pistol] Crash
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:34:07 AM EDT
Kevin, We're on the same page with the daughter's self defense issue and me knowing her dates. I was only half kidding about taking the potential date shooting. I've found that going shooting with someone is a pretty good way to get to know them better. I agree that date rape is probably the biggest threat, but I think a straight razor will probably be a better choice than a .357 to prevent this[:D] John
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:36:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2002 8:39:48 AM EDT by Vector_Joe]
jetsca: [b]LarryG, Vector_Joe may change his tune when that daughter hits her teens and starts filling out her t-shirt and he sees a few more news stories like the one from yesterday. [/b] I don't really understand why you said this? What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter about the guys training/packing. I want my daughter to do that [b] herself [/b]. And be able to take care of any business whether she is alone or not. I figure that when it is time, I'll get her a compact or baby glock or maybe give her my sig 225. But I think when she is old enough, she can carry a one handed opening blade/knife everywhere.
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:47:00 AM EDT
Vector_Joe, Just sorta a poor attemt a dry wit. I really hadn't even thought much about my little girl dating or guys looking at her until the above mentioned thing happened. All of a sudden she is blossoming into a beautiful blue-eyed, blond haired, curvaceous young lady. See my previous post on the blade thing. Looks like I finally found a topic that all of us can agree on. We all love our little girls and want them to be able to take care of themselves and be taken care of, not taken advantage of. John
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:49:34 AM EDT
Arm your daughter, not the would be assailant. Aren't most rapes date rape? Better yet, get her pepper spray, since most girls aren't very responsible with purses and such and there's a big chance she'll lose it at a party or something. How about a chastity belt, where the belt is actually, linked SS109 with a SAW strapped to her leg? [:)]
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 8:50:50 AM EDT
those events got me and the guys talkin at work. thats not likley to happen in iowa, as the rapist runs a decent chance of innturupting a 6'1 260lb corn fed steer and getting a mud hole stompeed in him, that being fallowed up with a 12 guage thank you .
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 9:10:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 9:18:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jetcsa: Looking back on my dating career, from age 16 until I got married at 21, I never took a girl on a date without my trusty .357 Mag in the glove compartment of my vehicle.
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You ANIMAL you! [;)]
Any young man that wants to take her out is going to have to be packing more iron on his hip or in his glove compartment than he has hanging from his ears, nose, eyebrows, tongue, etc. He will need to make at least one trip with me to the backyard range to prove his proficiency with his weapon, and to see what the old man is capable of doing to him should he fail to protect my baby or keep her out parking past 2am. [;)] What do ya'll think????
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Sounds like a damn good plan to me, although if the little bastard has ANY iron hanging off his body besides a sidearm, he won't be seeing my little girl.... Honestly, though. I don't know what the hell we're going to do. My oldest just turned two, so I have at least 13 more years of slouching toward Gomorah before I start sweating bullets about dates. All I worry about now are terrorists and sickos. (Maybe that's redundant...)
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 9:31:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 9:32:00 AM EDT
I concur with what others have said about making sure that daughters AND sons know how to protect themselves when they "leave the nest" even for a date. Of course "protecting yourself" starts with danger avoidance tactics such as; not hanging out in a car in a deserted part of town at 4:00 in the morning. My little girl is only 20 months old but we already play a game with a "nerf" dart gun. I shoot it at a target across the room and she runs over and brings it back and "reloads" the gun. My boy who is not quite 5yo already knows NOT to point his "Buzz Lightyear" pistol at any person. He can "point and shoot" the cartoons on TV and his toys but not at people or the cat. I have taken it away from him several times for allowing the "muzzle" to drift into the direction of someone sitting in the family room. The neat thing is he is really starting GET IT. He already is developing a habit of keeping the muzzle straight up or straight down.
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 9:38:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 9:45:00 AM EDT
Balzac72, LMAO on that chastity belt idea. Don't think I can afford a SAW, but maybe one of those Ares tops...workable substitute ya think? Oneshot, I'm truly saddened to hear about your brother. I've only got one brother, too. We are pretty close - I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine yor pain. Start training those kids now, and train them well. Even if they're too young to actually shoot, they're never too young to start training psychologically. One other point we can all keep in mind. Our kids are at much greater risk of injury and/or death from MVA's as a young driver or passenger of a young driver than they are from rape/murder/kidnapping, etc. We need to train them well in vehicle safety as well as gun/knife safety. And remember, they learn from the example we set as well as what we say. I always keep the safety of my kids at the top of my prayer list. I know some of you don't believe in God's protection or the efficacy of our prayers, but even if you don't believe, you'll have to admit it can't hurt a bit as long as we do our part in training and protecting them and don't let pray become a "magic shield". I've always had God's hand of protection in my life, but a couple of times the instrument of his protection happened to be the concealed handgun I was carrying.[O:)] John
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 9:49:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By oneshot1kill: My daughter is 13, and she already had a low life boy from the nieghborhood punch her in the face. This happened just a short while before the police arrested me for having my rifle in the trunk. .
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i admire you. if i had been in your shoes, between those 2, i would likley be in jail right now
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 10:04:19 AM EDT
My babygirl will be 14 next week. She loves the Ruger P95 her stepmom has, and enjoys shooting my V-10 .45. She and I are planning a jaunt to the range tomorrow morning to break in my AK47. It will be her first time shooting a non-rimfire rifle. She will leave to go home on Sunday with a few birthday presents, and still more knowledge of firearms. She is a great shot for someone who just really started shooting a year or so ago. As far as arming her, well, the state says not till they are 21. I don't want to risk a felony for her to carry early, but she is going to get a nice lockblade knife this weekend. Of course, she'll not be able to carry it to high school.....due to the metal detectors... She'll know how to use it, and God help anybody that ever lays an angry hand on my little girl......EVER! Not only will they have to deal with her early skills, but even if she hurts him, Daddy will visit.........
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 10:08:30 AM EDT
oldie but a goodie Ten Simple Rules for Dating My Daughter Rule One: If you pull into my driveway and honk, you'd better be delivering a package, because you're sure not picking anything up. Rule Two: You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter's body, I will remove them. Rule Three: I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don't take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose his compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your trousers securely in place to your waist. Rule Four: I'm sure you've been told that in today's world, sex without utilizing a "barrier method" of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I will kill you. Rule Five: It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is "early." Part two next
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 10:09:14 AM EDT
Rule Six: I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make you cry. Rule Seven: As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her makeup, a process that can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don't you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car? Rule Eight: The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter: Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool. Places where there are no parents, policemen, or nuns within eyesight. Places where there is darkness. Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness. Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka - zipped up to her throat. Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided; movies which features chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay. Old folks homes are better. Rule Nine: Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a potbellied, balding, middle-aged, dimwitted has-been. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing, merciless god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, you have one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, a shovel, and five acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me. Rule Ten: Be afraid. Be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car in the driveway for a chopper coming in over a rice paddy near Hanoi. When my Agent Orange starts acting up, the voices in my head frequently tell me to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway you should exit your car with both hands in plain sight. Speak the perimeter password, announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, then return to your car - there is no need for you to come inside. The camouflaged face at the window is mine.
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 11:26:21 AM EDT
Thanks Coz, I love those 10 simple rules. I've got 'em printed out and on my desk somewhere, but they are no longer on the website where I originaly found 'em, otherwise I would have beat you to the draw. I especially like the one about fastening the pants up with the electric nailer. I'm pretty sure that either of my air nailers would work just as well. I think about it every time I use one of 'em.[;)] John
Link Posted: 8/2/2002 11:44:58 AM EDT
One other point we can all keep in mind. Our kids are at much greater risk of injury and/or death from MVA's as a young driver or passenger of a young driver than they are from rape/murder/kidnapping, etc. We need to train them well in vehicle safety as well as gun/knife safety. And remember, they learn from the example we set as well as what we say. I always keep the safety of my kids at the top of my prayer list. I know some of you don't believe in God's protection or the efficacy of our prayers, but even if you don't believe, you'll have to admit it can't hurt a bit as long as we do our part in training and protecting them and don't let pray become a "magic shield". I've always had God's hand of protection in my life, but a couple of times the instrument of his protection happened to be the concealed handgun I was carrying.[O:)] John
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Right On!!
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