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Posted: 7/31/2002 7:13:28 PM EDT
Now this IS VERY scary! This bug even surpasses SmallPox IMO. [url]http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/story.html?in_review_id=655146&in_review_text_id=626056 [/url] I fththat idiot has this thing where he can spread it Katie bar the door, all hell will break loose. Cetainly hope that "A" the article is WRONG and "B" that if it proves true we nuke the bastard back to before time began! Ebola is one nasty bug! No treatment, no defense, no vaccine. Anybody that would release such an evil bug is clearly not human.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:56:53 PM EDT
Thats kinda scary.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:06:28 PM EDT
Damn... sort of like the Stand..
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:21:39 PM EDT
Sounds like some reporter has been reading too much Tom Clancy... On the other hand, if this is true....yikes! FOTBR
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 12:17:56 AM EDT
Well, Ebola has certain things going for it as a bioweapon. It produces frighteningly ugly effects. It kills very quickly. and because it kills very qickly it does not spread well by itself. Infected people don't get very far before becoming immoble Its only known method of propigation is through contact with the bodily fluids of infected people. However it could still be aresolized in a liquid. This wouldn't be very persistant-also a plus if you intend to reoccupy a area-but would suffice to infect most people who got the aresol on them.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 2:18:47 AM EDT
And this is firearms related how??
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 4:56:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Arock: And this is firearms related how??
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Indirectly ?? ---------------------------------------------- Most of the germ warfare products can be developed but adequate delivery systems remain elusive.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 5:07:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Arock: And this is firearms related how??
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Arock may be hinting that this topic belongs over in the General Discussion forum instead of the General Firearm Discussion. Been a while since I read Clancy's novel. Though I wouldn't put it past them.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 5:43:21 AM EDT
ooooooops!! Too many beers and I didn't pay attention to WHICH General Discussion I put this in. Sorry; moved it where it belongs!
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 5:52:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 6:14:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2002 6:16:10 AM EDT by liberty86]
Brought to you by the same "Intelligence" agencies that had us bombing aspirin factories (Sudan), A Chinese embassy, (Serbia), and Wedding parties, (Afghanistan)...... Let's get everybody "fired up", so we can attack Iraq.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 6:16:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 6:55:18 AM EDT
I guess it comes down to is this. Do we kiss Iraq's ass and roll over in appeasement or do we solve the problem? Appeasement failed in 1939, and numerous times since. On the otherhand, stomping the enemy into dust worked extremely well in 1945, the LAST WAR the US won! If Ebola or other nasty germ comes out of Iraq it will be on the two Bush's heads as they had and have the ability to prevent such a disaster. Better to obliterate Iraq than even take the chance those morons would release these bugs!!
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 7:04:21 AM EDT
Ebola scares the hell out of me, but it is difficult to weaponize. The problem is persistence. Viruses like Ebola are destroyed very quickly by UV radiation which quickly damages the RNA contained in the virus. (Ebola and similar virii do not have DNA, only RNA, they require the DNA of host species to reproduce). So, Ebola, Marburg and other Hemmorhagic fever viruses essentially require direct inhalation or ingestion of a liquid virus-laden media aerosolized in the air, and that within a relatively short time of release (at least in open air). A release in a dark environment such as a subway, might last longer. Most virii are also extremely vulnerable to oxidation effects...oxygen rich atmospheres destroy them quickly, and harsh chemicals kill them fast as well...bleach, ammonia, etc. High heat, etc. are pretty serious issues...so your delivbery system needs to keep the heat and potentially virus killing chemicals down. All this is to say that while Ebola and similar virii are nasty bugs capable of inflicting horrible casualties (Marburg has a roughly 50% mortality rate among those infected while various strains of Ebola have mortality rates between 60 and 95%) they are a serious PITA to weaponize effectively including delivery systems etc. They are far more effective as terrorist weapons than battlefield weapons. As far as treatments are concerned, survivor's blood has shown some utility in treatment by introducing immunogens and antibodies into the victim's bloodstream, but treatment really must begin relatively early to give the body a jump start on the virus. No one really knows where these virii come from. There is no known host reservoir in the wild. By contrast, smallpox, while only 30% fatal is highly debilitating and VERY, VERY contagious. Pretty much anyone who has significant contact with a victim will get smallpox and just a little less than a 3rd of those infected will die, many more will suffer permanent injuries and most survivors will suffer serious and permanent scarring. The big problem is that with a large percentage of the population infected, activity at all levels of society will slam on the brakes as the workforce is debillitated. The military, which is regularly vaccinated for smallpox, would probably be okay, but it's resources would be stretched thin coping with the epidemic and the attendant difficulties. CDC now has sufficient vaccine laid up to treat every American, but the vaccine has some nasty side effects in some people potentially crippling or even lethal side effects. Any nationa that uses bioweapons against another nation deserves to become a non-nation. I am not as willing as others to advocate a nuclear solution. Turning an entire country, 99.9999% of whose population would likewise be horrified at the use of biological weapons on other human beings, into a glass plated oil-field is not the act of a civilized nation. It is a supreme act of vengeance and I'm not certain we or anyone else is entitled to that level of vengeance. On the other hand, deposing and executing the entire government and military command structure of that country and replacing it with an occupation government and no native military would be entirely warranted.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 8:05:05 AM EDT
I am not as willing as others to advocate a nuclear solution. Turning an entire country, 99.9999% of whose population would likewise be horrified at the use of biological weapons on other human beings, into a glass plated oil-field is not the act of a civilized nation.
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The US had no problem doing just that in Japan for a lower death toll than 9/11! We have been friendly with the Japanese ever since. These moslem morons need to know by clear policy of the US that Hiroshima will look like a friendly gesture compared to what we will do to them should bugs or other NBC be used, again, against interests of the US. Sterilization of the area by nuke is the only way to kill this crap. The civilians should leave. If they don't - tough shit.
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 8:48:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 9:11:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2002 9:14:05 AM EDT by biggun1]
While I don't agree with Icemanat95's feelings on the situation, he is absolutely correct about the virus. The other thing to consider is this: Ebola,Marburg,etc. are not the biological weapons of choice for nations willing to use them. Primary bioweapons are normally chosen based upon ease of weaponization and how it incapacitates enemy personnel. The main goal of WMD is not to kill personnel, but to cripple the enemy forces. Ebola could very quickly wipe out an exposed battalion, and then the breakout is self-contained. If smallpox, or a biotoxin is used instead, you then infect and incapacitate the battalion as well as all medical and support personnel for an extended period of time. From a strategic standpoint, the less-lethal bioweapons are more effective for war while the bioweapons with a very high mortality rate are attractive to the terrorist crowd. Just my .02 edited because I forgot to run spellcheck
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 10:03:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Arock: And this is firearms related how??
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Hey, what kind of ammo would be best for an ebola carrier??? Thee. Now it's firearms related.[:D]
Link Posted: 8/1/2002 10:17:03 AM EDT
Icemanat95, good post....ALL of it.
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