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Posted: 7/31/2002 8:29:27 AM EDT
If the government were to pass a .50 BMG ban tommorrow should LE agencies be exempted? Do they have uses for .50s? CRC
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:31:58 AM EDT
They have as much use for one as I do. If the ban is passed I will do all in my power to buy one.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:32:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:38:32 AM EDT
NO
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:42:48 AM EDT
If they ban all firearms tomorrow, the LEO's should not be exempt from that either. If they ban them then they all disappear off the streets, we're all safe and ... We wouldn't even need LEO's then.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:31:45 AM EDT
Why don't we just ban criminals? That way we wouldn't need LEOs and any gun could be legal. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:51:21 AM EDT
Considering that LEO's are civillian (A fact which many of them seem to be unaware of) they should be subject to every civillian law. Granting them special exemptions from civil law distances them even further.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:59:09 AM EDT
Whoa, hold up, before you go thinking about exemptions for LEO's on a weapons ban, why don't we cover whether or not the ban should go into effect?? Whether or not the exempt LEO's, it won't matter, because as far as I know nobody is using .50's for LE work. Something about politics, cost, deployment issues. I'd hate to see the news when a LE sniper takes a 50 yd shot with a .50 cal, the round going through the suspect and continues for 500 yds knocking through a few walls and killing another person.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:02:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: or not the ban should go into effect?? Whether or not the exempt LEO's, it won't matter, because as far as I know nobody is using .50's for LE work.
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Kalifornia (specifically, LA) has a 6-wheeled APC with a fully functional M60 (that they've [i]used[/i]) on it. What makes you think they wouldn't like the opportunity to amass a few more "toys" for their JBTs? Those MFs would get an M1A2, if they could find the funding. [;)]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:02:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:02:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: Whether or not the exempt LEO's, it won't matter, because as far as I know nobody is using .50's for LE work.
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LOL! The news just did a little piece on Miami-Dade PD, (About a week ago) where they showed one of their officers firing a taxpayer .50 BMG. "They also have weapons like this .50 BMG rifle, used to take out large vehicles..." My county is getting one too. Apparently their full-auto G3 isn't enough for them to punch through an engine block.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:05:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 11:06:30 AM EDT by McUZI]
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: Whoa, hold up, before you go thinking about exemptions for LEO's on a weapons ban, why don't we cover whether or not the ban should go into effect??
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Dude, no one wants a .50 ban. But there is a time when one has to realize what is coming. If you fall off a cliff and are racing toward the asphalt, you may as well start thinking about the impact, because it's going to happen whether you want it to or not. You can flap your arms all you want... But it's coming.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:09:19 AM EDT
If I cannot own something it should not be allowed for leo's. The law's as they are now are nothing more than a joke. I am a former leo and have watched the change, the us against them abyss just keep's getting wider. The last year I was in [94] they discussed a survey during in service training. It was all on respect, and yes the garbage collector was rated higher. It would not surprise me if the survey was done again that leo's have an even lower rating than they did back then.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:10:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Pangea: They have as much use for one as I do. If the ban is passed I will do all in my power to buy one.
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[beer] agreed.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:15:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: or not the ban should go into effect?? Whether or not the exempt LEO's, it won't matter, because as far as I know nobody is using .50's for LE work.
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Kalifornia (specifically, LA) has a 6-wheeled APC with a fully functional M60 (that they've [i]used[/i]) on it. What makes you think they wouldn't like the opportunity to amass a few more "toys" for their JBTs? Those MFs would get an M1A2, if they could find the funding. [;)]
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Got a cite on that? I know the LASO (?) has the wheels, but have never heard they used an M60.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:18:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 11:38:11 AM EDT by McUZI]
I want to know who are the retards who actually voted that LEO's be exempted... Jesus. Whoever voted that way should be promptly shot.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:23:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: Kalifornia (specifically, LA) has a 6-wheeled APC with a fully functional M60 (that they've [i]used[/i]) on it. What makes you think they wouldn't like the opportunity to amass a few more "toys" for their JBTs? Those MFs would get an M1A2, if they could find the funding. [;)]
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Might have something to do with that little N. Hollywood bank robbery/shoot-out, or the high speed chase about 6-12 months before that that went about 100 miles and involved some BG's armed with auto rifles. Something like 20+ cops cars disabled due to MG fire, not to mention a couple of serious injuries and a lot of minor injuries. Part of the armored car idea, it that it probably is invulnerable to the weapons most BG's would have and can be used for rescues in the "kill zone". Or forcible entries. Also if you are in a portable bunker you don't neccesarily have to return fire. Taking all that into consideration, I think part of it is psychological, in other words the copls hope that if they dpeloy the armored/armed car, any BG that assesses the tactical situation will feel like he is facing the Borg. Resistance is futile, and hopefully give up before the shoot out breaks out. LE agencies have a duty both to the community and the officers to be prepared for what could happen. They can't say, well if this kind of a thing happens, we just send in officers and hope that the BG doesn't kill too many before he runs out of ammo. Or have a situation where a barricaded subject, in the middle of the city, is in a situation that they are a threat, but the police can't send cops in without getting several of them killed. What if the FBI had just driven an armored car up to Randy Weavers house and got on the loud speaker and asked him to come out? Wouldn't that have been better than all that crap both sides were doing to each other in the woods?
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:28:32 AM EDT
What a dumb ass thread. I want to start a thread in which the responses are just as predictable. I envision a poll as well. Here are some of the topics I'm considering. 1. Should I drown a sack full of kittens? 2. Is your mother a crack whore? 3. Would you buy caffeine free Mountain Dew? Any input is welcome.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:33:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 11:34:40 AM EDT by McUZI]
Originally Posted By Sukebe: What a dumb ass thread. I want to start a thread in which the responses are just as predictable.
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I totally disagree. The fact that there are now 8% of the people saying "YES" is interesting enough. (Which to me is unspeakably amazing that 8% of the people would help prop up the opressors like that. "WE CAN'T HAVE IT, BUT YOU SURE CAN! THANK YOU SIRE, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!) Now, if we could only get those people to fess up... Ain't gunna happen. You know... That whole "Blue Wall Of Silence" thing... [b]1. Should I drown a sack full of kittens?[/b] Of course. Only faggots like cats. [b]2. Is your mother a crack whore?[/b] No, but she did smoke a lot of weed when she was younger [b]3. Would you buy caffeine free Mountain Dew?[/b] Only white-trash drink Pepsi products.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:35:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 11:37:11 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:40:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:41:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: Goddamitt, I voted wrong [V] I voted yes....I meant no!!
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Damn Floridians.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:02:04 PM EDT
I think the 1st yes vote was mine. I clicked "NO", no showed as being clicked, and when the paged refreshed, it had 7% yes, up from 0%, and no change in "no." Sorry. -It won't let me edit my vote:-( I'm not even from Florida! -Justin
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:05:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:23:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 12:25:05 PM EDT by Johninaustin]
I find it asinine to debate a hypothetical provision of a non-existant bill. It's sort of like that classical argument, How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? As an aside, do people really drink Mountain Dew?
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:31:35 PM EDT
Why does LE need .50BMG - isn't the current "long-gunning" record for LEO engagements around 75 yards or so? Hell, you don't even zero a .50 for anything less than 500 yards! Moreover - disbling vehicles? What, can't they get KTW/AP anymore? Can't they get their hands on NATO Penetrators? Can't get .30 AP pills and load them - hell, even I can do that! If LEO doesn't need it, why should they be exempted? I have enormous respect for LE in general (and MOST LEOs - there are some dicks out there, but every unit has some,) and am trying for employment with SCCSD. BUT, given the usual engagements that LEOs face, there is some equipment they JUST DON'T NEED. FFZ "In the house of the rich man, there is nowhere to spit, but in his face."
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:35:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: Kalifornia (specifically, LA) has a 6-wheeled APC with a fully functional M60 (that they've [i]used[/i]) on it. What makes you think they wouldn't like the opportunity to amass a few more "toys" for their JBTs? Those MFs would get an M1A2, if they could find the funding. [;)]
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Might have something to do with that little N. Hollywood bank robbery/shoot-out, or the high speed chase about 6-12 months before that that went about 100 miles and involved some BG's armed with auto rifles. Something like 20+ cops cars disabled due to MG fire, not to mention a couple of serious injuries and a lot of minor injuries. Part of the armored car idea, it that it probably is invulnerable to the weapons most BG's would have and can be used for rescues in the "kill zone". Or forcible entries. Also if you are in a portable bunker you don't neccesarily have to return fire. Taking all that into consideration, I think part of it is psychological, in other words the copls hope that if they dpeloy the armored/armed car, any BG that assesses the tactical situation will feel like he is facing the Borg. Resistance is futile, and hopefully give up before the shoot out breaks out. LE agencies have a duty both to the community and the officers to be prepared for what could happen. They can't say, well if this kind of a thing happens, we just send in officers and hope that the BG doesn't kill too many before he runs out of ammo. Or have a situation where a barricaded subject, in the middle of the city, is in a situation that they are a threat, but the police can't send cops in without getting several of them killed. What if the FBI had just driven an armored car up to Randy Weavers house and got on the loud speaker and asked him to come out? Wouldn't that have been better than all that crap both sides were doing to each other in the woods?
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All very sound reasons. But, IIRC, they actually used the M60 some time ago and shot through the house and lit up an entire neighborhood. Sorry, but the unrestrained use of weaponry, and the para-military mindset that causes it should be left to our military forces. The LAPD was not outgunned because they lacked M60s and armored cars, but because they lacked simple semi-auto rifles that would have taken a half dozen shots at 100yds, and instead relied on shotguns and 9mms. But, even in admitting that there are times when more firepower is needed, restraint (particularly for agencies of the government who cannot/will not be held accountable) is key. As such, I should also be given the presumption (as a non-LEO) that I will exercise proper restraint. Anything less is "us" against "them."
What if the FBI had just driven an armored car up to Randy Weavers house and got on the loud speaker and asked him to come out? Wouldn't that have been better than all that crap both sides were doing to each other in the woods?
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Hmmm. Waco, anyone?
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:49:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 12:50:47 PM EDT by DarkHelmet]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:52:14 PM EDT
[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0MABpDNAQApw3jUBxcoxJKvpHdGL63Ran6wIWU2z*Pcb9­7rWjHd2q3Yu12ih3x3M1f0bgb9CRty50AHAAOgAvAA/rooftops.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 12:57:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: What a dumb ass thread. I want to start a thread in which the responses are just as predictable. I envision a poll as well. Here are some of the topics I'm considering. 1. Should I drown a sack full of kittens? 2. Is your mother a crack whore? 3. Would you buy caffeine free Mountain Dew? Any input is welcome.
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Maybe calling this a dumbass thread was a little out of line. I don't want CRC to think I'm calling him a "dumbass" because I'm not. I just think it's one of those "preaching to the choir" type topics. After all, this is a pro firearms board and the vast majority of members are against any bans what so ever and against granting special firearms privileges to any class of citizen. Oh, and I forgot there are so many cat haters on this board. I may reconsider my poll topics. Just in case anyone thinks I'm an asshole LEO, I am. I am not however, in favor of a .50 BMG rifle ban. If you own one and feel the need to shoot at me with it, please try all other means to resolve our disagreement before you do. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 1:05:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 1:11:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By Sukebe: I am not however, in favor of a .50 BMG rifle ban. If you own one and feel the need to shoot at me with it, please try all other means to resolve our disagreement before you do. Thanks.
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Lest you, or anyone, misinterpret my comments, let me hasten to say I would expect to use it [b]beside[/b] you, not against you. Most of us realize the majority of LEO's are not JBT's working to take our firearms away. This does not lessen my loathing of the few JBT's. [:)]
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No misunderstanding on my part. I usually know where you stand BeeKeeper.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 2:10:49 PM EDT
1 more time... [soapbox] There should be no exceptions for anyone. If a citizen cannot own any caliber small arm, then no one in this country should be able to own any small arms. Since that right is recognized, not granted, by the BoR, everyone should be able to own as many small arms that they desire. Do not penalize the object, if laws are broken - murder, robbery - penalize the person committing the crime. Politicians should not have gov't issued bodyguards, be driven around in limos or have any perk that citizens do not enjoy. If they had to protect themselves, just like people involved in rental truck accidents, we would all be safer. They should also have to buy their own firearms and ammo and tolerate the affront of background checks, just like any other citizen. The class system in this country must be eliminated, and term limits must be put into place to get rid of the 'professional' politicians. Let them spend time finding a gun shop that has not been closed down or have to endure the personal indignity of buying a 10/22 or 100 pak of ammo from wally world. This should be required of anyone seeking elected office. [soapbox] Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 2:33:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 2:34:40 PM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: All very sound reasons. But, IIRC, they actually used the M60 some time ago and shot through the house and lit up an entire neighborhood. Sorry, but the unrestrained use of weaponry, and the para-military mindset that causes it should be left to our military forces. The LAPD was not outgunned because they lacked M60s and armored cars, but because they lacked simple semi-auto rifles that would have taken a half dozen shots at 100yds, and instead relied on shotguns and 9mms. But, even in admitting that there are times when more firepower is needed, restraint (particularly for agencies of the government who cannot/will not be held accountable) is key. As such, I should also be given the presumption (as a non-LEO) that I will exercise proper restraint. Anything less is "us" against "them."
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Umm I know that picture of the LASO armored car/M-60 were shown here discussing Beck killing Deputy K. It also appeared that the pictures were taken from some other scource, and weren't of that shoot out. No one, even here, claimed that they used the M-60 to hose down the place. Even though Beck was shooting at the medical helicopter and rescue personnel trying to aid Deputy K. Yes LE agencies need to be responsible, and accountable to the public. [red]Orig by OLY: What if the FBI had just driven an armored car up to Randy Weavers house and got on the loud speaker and asked him to come out? Wouldn't that have been better than all that crap both sides were doing to each other in the woods?[/red]
Hmmm. Waco, anyone?
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Back up, hold on, stop what you are doing [:)], please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say pull up and start knocking holes in walls or spaying in gas. I think that drive up and anounce, "c'mon out we have a warrant", would have been much better than the armed patrols, and counter patrols that were going on up there. What could have they done against an APC? I mean really. It could have sat out there like an 800 lb gorilla, until he came out. Or they just could have waited until he need propane of gas and came into town. Lots of people have felony warrants. In very few cases is there an active attempt to go find them.
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