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Posted: 7/27/2002 10:38:46 AM EDT
[b]Fort Bragg killings raise alarm about stress No connection established to assailants' Afghanistan duty July 27, 2002 Army Sgt. William Wright is charged with first degree murder in the death of his wife, Jennifer Gail Wright, one of four Fort Bragg military wives killed by their husbands in the past six weeks. The killings of four military wives in the past six weeks -- allegedly by their husbands who are based at Fort Bragg, North Carolina -- have led commanders to take a new look at whether combat deployments may be causing undue stress. Officials acknowledge that three of the men had recently served in Afghanistan, and at least one of them had been brought home early to deal with unspecified family problems. no established any connection between their service in Afghanistan and the incidents. Two of the women were fatally shot, one was strangled, and one was stabbed to death. All four killings took place off the base. Soldiers accused of killing their wives at Ft. Bragg, N.C. has the Army looking into stress counseling One military official who had previously served at Fort Bragg pointed out that Special Operations soldiers may be reluctant to seek help. A preliminary autopsy report released on Monday indicates that Andrea Lynn Zeigler-Floyd, 29, was shot by her husband at Fort Bragg. Sgt. 1st Class Brandon Floyd, then turned the gun on himself. On June 11, Sgt. 1st Class Rigoberto Nieves, 32, and his wife, Teresa, were found shot to death at their residence in a suspected murder-suicide. He was deployed to Afghanistan in early January and returned in mid-March. On June 29, Jennifer Wright, the wife of Master Sgt. William Wright, 36, was found strangled. Wright was charged with first degree murder. He was deployed to Afghanistan in mid-March and returned in mid-May. On July 9, Marilyn Griffin, wife of Sgt. Cedric Griffin, 28, was stabbed to death. Griffin is charged with first degree murder. He had not been deployed to Afghanistan. On July 19, Sgt. 1st Class Brandon S. Floyd, 30, and his wife, Andrea, were shot at their home in an apparent murder-suicide. He was deployed to Afghanistan in November and returned in January.[/b] Do you think the wives were bitching around on their husbands, or was the stress of Military Service the problem?
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 10:59:51 AM EDT
Initial indications are that financial problems and/or marital infidelity by the wives during the husband's deployments may have been an issue in some if not all of these cases. OTOH, the media overlooked the Major who was killed this week, and thus far, it looks like his wife may be the leading suspect. They also missed the fact that one of the spouses was killed last month, and the body was just found this week, so these are not simultaneous incidents. Always some excitement here in Fatalville, just seems like there has been a recent rash of it. Ft Bragg and Pope AFB have roughly 50,000 service members and their families assigned, plus the non-military Fayetteville residents, so this is not exactly a small community of soldiers. This town and the base probably average a murder or three a month, but it is unusual to have so many similar ones so close together. Our deepest sorrow and our prayers go out to the deceased and their families regardless of the reasons.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 11:24:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SF: Initial indications are that financial problems and/or marital infidelity by the wives during the husband's deployments may have been an issue in some if not all of these cases. OTOH, the media overlooked the Major who was killed this week, and thus far, it looks like his wife may be the leading suspect. They also missed the fact that one of the spouses was killed last month, and the body was just found this week, so these are not simultaneous incidents. Always some excitement here in Fatalville, just seems like there has been a recent rash of it. Ft Bragg and Pope AFB have roughly 50,000 service members and their families assigned, plus the non-military Fayetteville residents, so this is not exactly a small community of soldiers. This town and the base probably average a murder or three a month, but it is unusual to have so many similar ones so close together. Our deepest sorrow and our prayers go out to the deceased and their families regardless of the reasons.
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Point well taken. Sorrows and prayers as well.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 11:28:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 11:31:32 AM EDT
[USA]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 12:31:49 PM EDT
Pretty sad news. but, typical govn'... find a solution before the cause [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:55:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 7:04:26 PM EDT by Kingme]
One item not mentioned is the immunization shots given to service men prior to deployment. Remember Columbine, et al? It's been shown that all these students were on some sort of drugs prior to commiting their acts. I wonder if it will be discovered that the immunizations shots given or even drugs given to calm soldiers down prior to deployment wiil have caused the irrational behavior. I don't know if they were given drugs but read my post on "How Many Are Suffering Stress Because of Homeland Security" [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id =135156&page=1[/url]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:01:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:20:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By heliflyer: Do you think the wives were bitching around on their husbands
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Yep. Thought so as soon as I heard this.[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=135546[/url] This problem is especially prevalent in the Navy. The other branches at least allow the families to be together most of the time, especially in the states. The vast majority of Navy personnel are away from home normally, not just on deployment. I guess it's better to say that normal Navy duty IS deployment, whereas the other branches have a more normal life, if any military life can be normal. I saw a lot of Navy wives playing around when I was in my homeport.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:25:04 PM EDT
I'm sure these were the same type of "marital" incidents that happened at my base during the gulf war. The divorce rate sky rocketed. Thank god nobody was killed at my base. I do remember the severed head incident in Germany though.....
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:38:03 PM EDT
What woman would be stupid enough to cheat on an SF soldier, with extensive training in armed and unarmed CQC and desensitization to death, while he is on a combat tour? Never mind....apparently a bunch of them.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:45:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:49:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheKill: What woman would be stupid enough to cheat on an SF soldier, with extensive training in armed and unarmed CQC and desensitization to death, while he is on a combat tour? Never mind....apparently a bunch of them.
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A cheating spouse, male or female, never considers the consequences of their actions.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:51:28 PM EDT
It is definitely a tragedy when someone is killed but I'll tell you what. Infidelity.... while their husbands are at war fighting for their families and every other American. Its no excuse but jeez have some decency and respect for the men who put their lives on the line when no one else will. Infidelity is uncalled for at any time but when your husband is fighting for you. This makes me sick
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:58:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 8:07:27 PM EDT by Kingme]
This cheating stuff is conjecture at this point in time. Things don't add up: all within the last 6 weeks, all at Fort Bragg!!!
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 8:09:40 PM EDT
If you had served, it wouldn't be conjecture to you. I know what I have seen. When I got called back to the Army for Desert Storm after ETSing 4 months prior I went to see some of the wives of my friends who were already over there from Ft. Stewart. ALL of them with one exception were feet towards the ceiling. One of the many reasons I will never marry. Women are as trustworthy as a Corvair in Death Valley at high noon in July.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:12:09 PM EDT
And for this reason, I did not condone marriages among my command. I am not going to deny that there are cases where it would have worked, but I would not take that chance. I didn't want a man in the field wondering what his wife was up to "back home." I did not discourage affairs de couer among the men - but I did keep an eye on the "seriousness" of the affair. If it looked like it was heading toward marriage or something similarly serious, I would sit the man down and ask where he wanted to go for his next duty station. Failing that, transfer to another command was an option as well - in the event a man enjoyed his duty station. It seemed to work. There is something beneficial to a man's psyche in combat where the are no outside distractions. We had enough to deal with. "Marriage is a young man's disaster and an old man's comfort." Robert Anson Heinlein, "Starship Troopers" FFZ
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 1:41:54 PM EDT
I knew several guys in the military who would tell you point blank that when they got home they knew what to expect. For things to be just like it was when they left for deployment or training....cold beer in the fridge and his wife freshly fucked.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 1:50:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2002 1:50:31 PM EDT by Benjamin0001]
Unfortunately the cheatin wives stories are true. And I suspect that in the case of Bragg it is true as well. A man has been away fightin around the world and when he gets home his wife is gone from him emotionally right when he needs her most.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 2:01:00 PM EDT
I've seen alot of the married lives destroyed by some young and not-so-young "wives" for their indiscretion. More so the young ones, newly married and all, they just can't handle being alone (sometimes with a child) while the husband is out in the field or on deployment for more than 2 weeks. Then there are the idiots who "help" by hanging out at the NCO club (or Enlisted and O clubs) to prey on the wifes who make a bee line there when the unit is deployed... seen it too many times. There is (was?) a unit's wifes support group, but I don't know if it helped or not. But to return home from a hot area, needing to 'regroup' only to find someone has been cheatin on ya?.. that is way too much. Some women just don't get it. [:(]
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 2:31:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2002 2:32:52 PM EDT by Miss_Magnum]
All this talk of the wives cheating and noone mentions the husband's indiscretions... hmmm. I was in the Navy. I was also married to a Coastie. I know both sides of that coin. What happens on deployment, stays on deployment.... it's understood. As for being a military spouse? It's not exactly a picnic. I've never cheated, nor would I consider cheating, but it was very strange to have your spouse be gone 270 days a year and then come home and wonder why you two aren't "close." And the SF guys? Around here we have more SEALs than seals... and they are always partying it up at the beach. And they meet and date and marry girls [i]who are partying with them at the beach.[/i] You can see the infidelity coming like the proverbial indelible ink writing on the wall. [rolleyes] The SEALs that I've known are always the the Alpha males on the scene...and they attract and marry women who are drawn to that. Unfortunately, a lot of these same women look for who's the next Alpha man in line when their man is deployed. In some cases, it's payback for what their man is doing away at "training camp." Not saying it's right. Just saying that both sides are playing the same nasty game.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 3:12:07 PM EDT
Of course, you guys make it seem like the men are innocent in regards to infidelity. I am sure the SF guys probably didn't cheat on their wives in Afghanistan, but how many times do you see the men hooking up with someone on deployments, or going to the bar and going home with some woman and you know they are married. Not excusing it, but I have seen a lot of soliders cheat on their wives.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 3:49:28 PM EDT
Sorry man, I guess I just can't see it. I have spent time, 200 plus days a year, on the road away from home (not in the military) and it just doesn't compute to me.
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 5:16:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: I was in the Navy. I was also married to a Coastie. I know both sides of that coin. What happens on deployment, stays on deployment.... it's understood.
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I always had a problem with this when I was in. You are either faithful to your spouse or you are not. I could never codone the attitude that the rules were different when on deployment. Especially when when the squids got home and expected their wives to have been faithful too. Too many constantly shifting "rules" to have to keep up with. Regarding your Coastie husband...Did he really need to be over six feet tall so he could walk home if the boat sank? [:D]
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 5:54:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FatMan:
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: I was in the Navy. I was also married to a Coastie. I know both sides of that coin. What happens on deployment, stays on deployment.... it's understood.
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You guys are assuming that these guys in question were automatically guilty of cheating on their wives, or have been, while their wives where cheating on them. I don't buy into 'what happens on deployment, stays on deployment'. I was in the Navy. She didn't cheat on me and I didn't cheat on her. I know this for a fact. I saw many others on both sides do it, and we both swore not to. Besides, I knew her for a long time before we got married. I always had a problem with this when I was in. You are either faithful to your spouse or you are not. I could never codone the attitude that the rules were different when on deployment. Especially when when the squids got home and expected their wives to have been faithful too. Too many constantly shifting "rules" to have to keep up with. Regarding your Coastie husband...Did he really need to be over six feet tall so he could walk home if the boat sank? [:D]
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Link Posted: 7/29/2002 7:42:07 AM EDT
I'll probably get flamed, but what the hell. Granted we know nothing/little about the specifics of what these couples were going through (cheating/tensions), theres no way anything excuses them for [b]killing[/b] their wives. What about personal responsibility? Why can't we hold the individuals accountable for their actions? What about the hundreds of thousands of US military veterans of ww1/ww2/vietnam/etc and millions of other people all around the world who have high stress jobs who somehow find/found a way not to [b]shoot[/b] themselves or their spouses?? Ususally among lefties theres a tendancy to blame everything else but the individual. - lets say a ghetto kid robs a 7/11. The leftist would say its the violent environment/rap lyrics/guns to blame. 'Poor kid - he never had a chance.' The right wing response is the opposite - environment/rap lyrics/guns didn't shoot that 7/11 clerk, the kid did, the kid knew what he was doing and commited that crime, so lock his ass up. So as conservative as I know this forum is (not 100% i know, but far more conservative than liberal), why be so quick to blame these soldiers actions as the result of stress, outside factors, injections, or to even blame their cheating wives? So a wife cheats - thats justification to turn her head into swiss cheese? Divorce her 2 timing ass, take her to court, but damn don't shoot her in the head! Its the suicides that complicate matters. If these guys had only shot themselves, not others, it would be easy to be more sympathetic. You make a conscious decision to end your life, but when you kill your spouse that is murder.
Do you think the wives were bitching around on their husbands, or was the stress of Military Service the problem?
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Neither - the husbands are responsible for their actions. JMHO...
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 7:56:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By TheKill: What woman would be stupid enough to cheat on an SF soldier, with extensive training in armed and unarmed CQC and desensitization to death, while he is on a combat tour? Never mind....apparently a bunch of them.
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A cheating spouse, male or female, never considers the consequences of their actions.
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Forget the cheating spouses not thinking about the consequences. How about the other side? If you were a young buck and wanting some strange tail, wouldn't you tend to avoid the wife of a SF killing machine? The only way I cuold understand a regular guy getting involved with a Mrs. SF is if she 'neglected' to mention it! And another thing, these military spouses, male and female, knew what they were signing up for. At the very least they must realize that there was not a normal life in the future and should get ready for a military life!
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 9:58:49 AM EDT
Two quotes from this thread, admittedly taken out of context - “desensitization to death” “SF killing machine” Do you know what the army Special Forces do? They are trainers, motivators, and leaders. They study culture and language. They train others to fight for their freedom. The greater the social skills a SF soldier has, the better he can do his job. Hardly a job description for a killing machine, desensitized to death. In every one of these incidents one thing is true - a human life has been lost, and another ruined forever. I’ve seen this kind of shit up close. It changes you - you come face to face with the fact that someone you thought you knew and understood, can in only a few seconds of time do something so horrible that they are going to have to pay with their life. A few seconds of madness - that’s all it takes. Sad.
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 10:05:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2002 10:06:14 AM EDT by m60308nato]
NTXT I hit cancel damnit
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 10:16:20 PM EDT
This cheating syndrome is not just with armed forces people. I've gone on temporary assignments for my company from 2 weeks to 2 years. Once I went with a maried male friend of mine. We were only supposed to be gone for 3 to 6 months. We also were entitled to trips home every month. It ended up, for me, to be for 1 1/2 years. But for my buddy, he started experiencing marital problems at the 6 month mark. At nine months his wife was talking divorce. He had 3 kids. He left and went back home and saved his marriage. Please note there was no shooting here. Being away from your family has it's consequences. Not the way to go. And now we see how th military handles emotions. "Failing that (talking a military man out of marriage), transfer to another command was an option as well - in the event a man enjoyed his duty station." Oh super! That's a way to handle the emotional well being of our troops: allow them to get involved then pull the plug for an anti-climax hang up. That's anti-family isn't it?.
Link Posted: 7/29/2002 10:55:54 PM EDT
Never seen anyone kill over cheating in the 20+ years I have been in the Navy. I have seen one too many "West-Pac Widows" at the local clubs and in the base clubs when the units, squadron or ships deployed. I have had too many friends trash their marriages (men and women) over the latest cum-bucket or slut-puppy in the unit. To me there is something more going on there, if I were a betting man I would say they were probably suffering from some sort of PTSS. God help their poor souls.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 5:27:43 AM EDT
...I've been in and 'out' of Bragg my whole military life...I'd married 'young'(27) and one day coming back off a deployment I got the old "slide your ID card under the door" treatment...long, unannounced separations, and worry is a bitch on any marriage...coming home to a blown savings account etc pisses you off...I should have figured out that when all the Ex wanted for Christmas was General Power of Attorney...anywho, my 2 cents...
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 5:29:24 AM EDT
Also...as the saving goes..." I'll trust you with my life, but not my money or my wife." I didn't make that up, just heard it a long time ago.....
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 5:50:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By heliflyer: Sgt. 1st Class Rigoberto Nieves... ...was deployed to Afghanistan in early January and returned in mid-March. ...Master Sgt. William Wright, 36... ...was deployed to Afghanistan in mid-March and returned in mid-May. ...Sgt. Cedric Griffin, 28... ...had not been deployed to Afghanistan. ...Sgt. 1st Class Brandon S. Floyd... ...was deployed to Afghanistan in November and returned in January...
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We're talking from zero to three months away, not *years*... Definitely more going on here than just that, I'm sure.
Link Posted: 7/30/2002 3:58:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2002 4:02:33 PM EDT by Kingme]
I'm not sure where I'm going with this but I'll put it out... I saw a movie some time ago which starred Anthony Quinn. It was about trying to catch Anthony Quinn who played an Alaskan fugitive. During the movie a "civilized" man came to Quinn's family and lived in his Igloo a few days. For what ever reason, Quinn wanted to thank this man for some favor he did for Quinn. So he offered this man a night with Quinn's wife! The man objected. Said he couldn't do that and asked Quinn why he would offer such a thing. Quinn explained this way. He said to the man, "If I lend you my dog sled, it comes back broken. If I lend you my knife, it comes back dull. But if I lend you my wife, she comes back good as new." Now I have problems with that logic, but I think what I'm saying is that sex is not a good reason for killing. I think it also shows the degenerative nature of hollywood.
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