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Posted: 7/17/2002 12:28:29 PM EDT
My wife (33 years old) wants to join the Navy.Can you give me some PROS and CONS why should she, or should she not, join?How's Navy's attitude with women and do they keep their promises?Thanks guys (or gals). [flag]
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 12:42:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2002 12:43:24 PM EDT by ChrisLe]
Active Duty or Reserve? What does she do for a living now? What prompted her to join the Navy at that age? What is she hoping to get and/or experience in the Navy? Give us some more info and we'll be able to offer some advice.....
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 12:51:17 PM EDT
ChriLe basically covered all the question needs asking. Also what does she want to do in the Navy? Does she have a degree to possibly go for officers program.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 12:56:41 PM EDT
BTW Reserves will probably the way to go starting out. If she does have a degree, I would highly suggest looking into the Officers program. Better pay and better experience. Look great on resume.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 12:59:57 PM EDT
And no they don't keep promises. Only what is in writing when you sign the dotted line do they have to do. And I thought the cut off for officer was 27 or 28. But that may only count for ecp programs.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 1:05:53 PM EDT
The other folks asked all the right questions. Like any other big corporation the Navy deals with men and women equally. Is there some friction; yes, but there is in any company as well. I've been on active duty for the last 20 years. We are much smarter, and more in tune with the civilian sector then ever before. Look at the reserves closely as they are 20% of the force structure, and fully integrated into the fleet.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 1:21:42 PM EDT
GET IT WRITING!
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 1:36:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2002 1:43:05 PM EDT by Dolomite]
Not to appear nosey or anything, but I for one am quite curious what reasons she gives for wanting to join. What about you? Do you want her to go off to boot camp, followed by "A" school, followed by a 2-3 year stretch at one of the many garden-spot sea ports around the world? Ya know, being a military spouse ain't no picnic. Despite all the military bullshit you'll both be going through, Uncle Sugar really puts you on the hind teet. Also, during my six years in the suck, I saw a lot of marriages and otherwise steady relationships - how do I put this gingerly… denigrate into violent flying shit storms which without exception explode into nightmarish orgies of hate taking everyone within their personal perimeter down with them. So keep an eye out on that front. I'm sure you'll be fine though - good luck!
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 2:17:46 PM EDT
She doesn't have a degree, and for now she works in a restaurant as a waitress.She is a HS graduate and hopes to get a better job (or training) with some benefits and future.Her score, I think ,was around 35 and the recruiter keeps calling with "We got a job for you".Last one was "chef" read COOK but she didn't go for it.She wants to train for a job and stay with the Navy until retirement.Well,what do you say? [flag]
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 2:21:06 PM EDT
Let me see if I've got this straight: She got a 35 on her ASVAB? One more thing: Do you know how you can tell when your recruiter is lying? He opens his mouth.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 2:26:16 PM EDT
Yeah,if I remember right, the score was 35 and they said that was pretty good.And also the age limit for active duty is 34.Thanks. [flag]
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 2:32:27 PM EDT
Whats the age limit for service?I assumed it was 30.Are the different branches different on age ?
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 2:32:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bornfree: Yeah,if I remember right, the score was 35 and they said that was pretty good.And also the age limit for active duty is 34.Thanks. [flag]
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Was it the ASVAB(several hours)or the pre-ASVAB (45mins)?
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 3:29:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2002 3:30:48 PM EDT by Bornfree]
It was the second one that took several hours,not the pretest. [flag]
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 4:25:33 PM EDT
Why does she want this again? Pros and cons huh? OK... IF you guys get the rating (job) in writing, she might get what she wants. Recruit training isn't very hard, especially for the girls but it is a shock for the uninitiated. This will be a MAJOR life style change for BOTH of you. You won't see a lot of each other for months on end during her career. You will have to learn to cope alone. If you have children, that can be difficult. After her recruit training at Great Lakes, IL(Chicago area), and apprentice training at a school somewhere, she will be ordered to a permanent duty station. Depending on her job, this could be anywhere from a shore station in Millington TN to a destroyer in Japan. You may or may not be able to accompany her, depending on your job, your financial situation AND whether or not the service will "sponsor" you. The rules have loosened up since I retired from the Navy...but you ought to check anyway. If she goes to a ship, she could spend a significant time away from her homeport. On my last ship, between July 1985 and September 1987, we were away from our home port 75% of the time. That was a destroyer. Carriers can be even worse. Shipboard life can be physically and mentally challenging. It used to be anyway...not sure about today's Navy. For all I know they have day care on board now! The training that the Navy provides can be very beneficial to her later in life. It certainly helped me. The services all offer the GI Bill in one form or another. Not sure what it is called now...I think the "Montgomery GI Bill". She may have to contribute some of her pay as a good faith investment. She should take it. Dolomite makes some good points. Familiy life in the Navy can be rather stressful and difficult. My wife and I weathered a 28 year career. She was a single parent for much of that time, raising the kids while I played Navy, driving destroyers around. Her job was really MUCH harder than mine. She did it ALL while I was gone...and after I returned, she jealously guarded her new found independence, responsiblities, and authority. The first time I tried to invoke my husbandly/fatherly authority and throw my weight around immediatly after returning from a deployment, Missus LWilde made it quite clear to all hands just who the HELL was in charge...and that if I didn't like the way things were being run, I could just take my biz somewhere else! I paid attention. In fact, she still pretty much runs things...like doing the bills and such...which is just fine for me. I get enough $$$ for guns & ammo, beer, and gas for my truck...so I'm happy. Bottom line, if you can both hack it...it can be a great career. I had a bunch of fun...and so did the wife. We met people during our career that we have remained friends with all these years, and so did our kids! My daughter just went to the wedding of one of her childhood friends. Think about it carefully. [soapbox]
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 5:21:39 PM EDT
Like any other big corporation the Navy deals with men and women equally.
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What's your definition of "equally?" There's a set of rules for the Navy and a separate set that're used for females. Spent plenty of time on sea duty to see that.
We are much smarter, and more in tune with the civilian sector then ever before.
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Again, define what "in tune with the civilian sector" means to you. It's been my experience that even career sailor spend maybe less than fifty percent of their time performing in their actual rating. I used to hear career people bitch on a frequent basis that there weren't any jobs available in the civilian sector. Come to find out everybody expects to be paid at the journeyman level right off the bat when they're really only at the apprentice skill level. And yes, that applies to the career guys, too.
Is there some friction; yes, but there is in any company as well.
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Again, an unrealistic analogy. The type of sexual politics that're tolerated in the Navy will get your ass fired in the civilian sector. The Navy has not found an acceptable way to integrate females into sea duty billets and they just do not belong. You're welcome to flame away, but the truth hurts. The Navy today is just piss-poor compared to, say ten years ago.
After her recruit training at Great Lakes, IL(Chicago area), and apprentice training at a school somewhere, she will be ordered to a permanent duty station.
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Uh, no. If her enlistment contract guarantees an "A" school, she will attend "A" school. If her enlistment contract has her as an undesignated seaman/fireman/airman, she will attend apprenticeship training unless an "A" school is assigned in boot camp.
the recruiter keeps calling with "We got a job for you".Last one was "chef" read COOK but she didn't go for it.
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Actually, the rating is "MS," mess management specialist. As an MS and being a female, there'd be a good chance for shore duty right off the bat.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 5:45:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 5:52:11 PM EDT
Hey Rebel and Lwilde where you at in VA. If you are still active duty then I know your in Hampton Roads! I did five years in the Navy and got out in 1998. I am now a Govt. Contractor for the AF. Bornfree, if you make a comfortable living and your wife is just bored with her job I would not recommend the Navy or any other branch of the service. If you are struggling to make ends meet then it may be a good choice. If I had to do things over again I would go AF and be a 3CO. They get awesome training and receive $60k to re-enlist! Then there is a nice cushy Govt. job waiting for them when they either retire or get out. Being in the Navy and riding ships is a very difficult life for both enlisted and officers. I have lived both lives. I was an enlisted guy for 5 years and then went to work for SPAWAR and they gave me a rank of LCDR to complete my work onboard ships. I lived in state rooms and ate in the wardroom. I personally am glad that I was enlisted and didn't have to put up with all the back stabbing and boot licking. So good luck with your choice and let me or us know if we can be of any assistance. P.S. Being an MS might be one of the worst jobs in the Navy! So have her look for something more technical (ET, EW, CT,IT,IS). C4
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 5:59:18 PM EDT
Okay, I will give you some free advice, take it or leave it. If she has the ability to learn, send her to any college, get her a degree. If she does not want to go to school, then she should look at starting a job in a company where she can advance up. All of these things are what they will try to sell you in a recruiters office. They will tell you that you can get these in the service. Don't believe it, ask them about the lastest push to reduce the Navy by 20,000 sailors by OCT 2003. The Navy will only keep its word when it benefits the Navy. You can go to school while you are in, but with the OP-Tempo that they are now at, there is no way that it will not be such a huge pain. Most people drop their classes because they can not make the required classroom time. Do Not Join The Navy!!! I say this, having spent my entire adult in the Navy, 20 years and still going. But looking back, I would not have done it. The people that are my age that did not join the service, are now on an average making 2-3 times the income that I am. In the 20 years, I have spent 11 of those deployed or TAD from my family. You nor I can ever get those years back. And those posters and TV ads, those are not the places she is going to see 99% of the time! Why do I still do it? Because I am now going to get paid for a year to sit on my butt. When I retire next year for good, my retirement check will be $1500 each month before taxes. Medical care is a joke while in and non existant when retired. This is not the rant of a disgruntled sailor. I have met alot of good people and done alot of things that meant something at the time. I'm just trying to give you some straight answers.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:14:04 PM EDT
Dolomite hit it on the head. During my 6 year stretch, I was single. BUT, I had the pleasure of watching marriages end, husbands and wives cheat, birthdays get missed, a friend of mine missed 3 years worth of anniversaries in a row... The Navy is not family oriented, even in the small community I came from. Air Force is a COUNTRY CLUB compared to the Navy! Oh yeah, although the duty rotation on a sub is more arduous, I had to spend 1 out of every 4 days ONBOARD the SUB!!! In port!!!! Conversations will go like this: you: "Oh, loving wife?" her: "Yes dear?" you: Lets go do something on Friday nite." her: "I'll be getting home late" you: "OK, how about Saturday?" Her: Can't do that either. I have duty starting at 0700" You: "How about sunday?" Her: "Sunday i smy only day off this weekend." You: "Monday?" Her: "We get underway on Monday. I'll be back on saturday, and I'll have duty on that SUNDAY, and have to be into work on monday morning..." Commence the arguement!!!! Hopefully this is just a phase. Little kids sometimes go through a "ninja" period. Maybe 34 yr old women go through a TOP GUN period? mug
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:14:35 PM EDT
Hmmm, so she wants to join the Navy at 33. Here is what she is in for: If she goes enlisted she will be at least 15 years out of touch with her peers as far as social setting and work setting go. She will probably have a supervisor who is 20 years old telling her to scrub shitters and swab the decks, and a division officer who is 24 telling her how to live her life. Since she has no degree she will most likely end up going in as an E1, perhaps an E2. As an E1 or an E2 being married she will get certain pay allowances. As far as jobs, well, to be honest a 35 score on the ASVB is pretty low. Here is the Navy page for the detailers, they list what jobs they have avalible under each career grouping. [url]http://www.bupers.navy.mil/pers40/textonly/Index.html[/url] Here are her PRT box scores, in order to stay in the Navy she will have to do this twice a year in addition to passing a height/weight standard or a body-fat standard. Listed are high and lowest passing scores, the lower your scores are the lower your evals are going to be. Females: Age 30-34 years Category Level Outstanding High Curlups 98 Pushups 44 1.5-mile run 10:46 500-yd swim 7:30 Category Level Satisfactory Medium Curlups 44 Pushups 13 1.5-mile run 16:15 500-yd swim 14:30 As an E1 - E4 she can count on the following sea/shore rotation if she went as an MS: Sea tour 54 months/Shore tour 24 months Not a lot of time spent at home. As far as pay, well... [url]http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/[/url] $1,105.50 a month for an E1 under 2 years. Add on an extra $429 to pay rent on that slum you will be living in. Base housing? You may as well forget that, here in the area I am at an E-nothing is on a 3 year housing waiting list. Of course if you became pregnant then AFTER the kid was born she could get into base housing, the sub-standard units only though. What she really needs to do is write out each and every reason why she wants to join the Navy and then let some of us who have "been there, done that" pick it apart for her.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:21:36 PM EDT
I don't know how other specialties were in the Navy, but I felt that my training in the Navy was one of the best experiences of my life. I trained as a Hospital Corpsman, got to spend 18 months in Alaska, was trained as an OR technition, recieved EMT 1 & 2 national certs as well as EVOC certification, ORT national certification all compliments of the Navy. My training provided me with training for a civilian job that allowed me to live on and pay cash for my bachelors degree. I spent 4.5 years in the Navy, 50% state side. However when in Alaska, it was considered an accompanied over seas tour and many people brought their families. I think if one is interested in the medical field, not sure what they might be interested in, the Navy is the way to go. You will learn a little about everything. 4 years was enough for me, a great adventure, I got out to persue my dream of becoming a nurse anesthetist, I believe my Navy experience helped me get there!
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 6:42:25 PM EDT
What about Navy Reserves?
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 3:58:49 AM EDT
I need more inputs about the subject;what about women's life and how are them treated in the Navy?Thanks! [flag]
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 4:55:55 AM EDT
Females don't do anything they don't want to do in the Navy, they are often accorded special treatment and accomodations as compared to their male counterparts, they are often offered re-enlistment incentives not available to their male counterparts, and they are often placed into ratings and billets for which they are not qualified due to the Navy's zeal to make females equal to males. After having served on a shitty boat with females and putting up with all of the chickenshit attitudes and policies, I just don't have anything positive to say. If I had it to do over again, I'd have pursued submarines more vigorously. If your wife wants the most for the least, then think about the nasty guard. She'll still attend basic training, AIT, and receive drill pay. I don't know about the state where you live, but in a lot of places a tuition waiver is offered for nasty guardsmen attending state-supported schools. Something to think about.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 5:20:57 AM EDT
I just talked to my wife and there is a little change,if it makes any difference,her ASVAB score was 47 not 35.Let me know.Thanks.[flag]
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 6:32:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2002 6:37:02 AM EDT by redray]
Originally Posted By C4iGrant: Hey Rebel and Lwilde where you at in VA. If you are still active duty then I know your in Hampton Roads! [b]I did five years in the Navy and got out in 1998[/b]. I am now a Govt. Contractor for the AF. Bornfree, if you make a comfortable living and your wife is just bored with her job I would not recommend the Navy or any other branch of the service. If you are struggling to make ends meet then it may be a good choice. If I had to do things over again I would go AF and be a 3CO. They get awesome training and receive $60k to re-enlist! Then there is a nice cushy Govt. job waiting for them when they either retire or get out. Being in the Navy and riding ships is a very difficult life for both enlisted and officers. I have lived both lives. I was an enlisted guy for 5 years and then went to work for SPAWAR and they [b]gave me a rank of LCDR[/b] to complete my work onboard ships. I lived in state rooms and ate in the wardroom. I personally am glad that I was enlisted and didn't have to put up with all the back stabbing and boot licking. So good luck with your choice and let me or us know if we can be of any assistance. P.S. Being an MS might be one of the worst jobs in the Navy! So have her look for something more technical (ET, EW, CT,IT,IS). C4
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[b][red]you did FIVE years in the Navy, they [size=4]gave[/size=4] you the rank of LCDR (Lieutenant Commander for non-Navy readers) but you were glad you were enlisted? you are either very special, talented, a genius.....or just full of shit! care to explain yourself?[/red][/b] redray,SCWS,ESWS,(DV) i wish they just "gave" me everything i worked for in the NAVY ! my life would have been so much goddamned easier!
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 6:46:59 AM EDT
I was just getting out as the Lincon was being refitted for mixed crew. But we always had the Gompers with us that had like 10 or 20 percent female crew. Depending on who you talked to it was a little different, but for the most part women needed a large male "friend" to make life easier on board, and the last cruise we took with them something like 80 percent CAME BACK pregnant. That is right I said came back not went to sea, but came back. I too in my 6 years saw my share of divorces and cheating husbands. And I was even lucky enough to have a ship go into dry dock for a year and ahalf. Other wise we were only in port 2 months out of the year.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 7:19:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redray:
Originally Posted By C4iGrant: If I had to do things over again I would go AF and be a 3CO. They get awesome training and receive $60k to re-enlist! Then there is a nice cushy Govt. job waiting for them when they either retire or get out. Being in the Navy and riding ships is a very difficult life for both enlisted and officers. I have lived both lives. I was an enlisted guy for 5 years and then went to work for SPAWAR and they [b]gave me a rank of LCDR[/b] to complete my work onboard ships. I lived in state rooms and ate in the wardroom. I personally am glad that I was enlisted and didn't have to put up with all the back stabbing and boot licking. So good luck with your choice and let me or us know if we can be of any assistance. P.S. Being an MS might be one of the worst jobs in the Navy! So have her look for something more technical (ET, EW, CT,IT,IS). C4
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[b][red]you did FIVE years in the Navy, they [size=4]gave[/size=4] you the rank of LCDR (Lieutenant Commander for non-Navy readers) but you were glad you were enlisted? you are either very special, talented, a genius.....or just full of shit! care to explain yourself?[/red][/b] redray,SCWS,ESWS,(DV) i wish they just "gave" me everything i worked for in the NAVY ! my life would have been so much goddamned easier!
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Yeah I'd like to know how this happens as well. I have heard of meritorious promotions but this is ridiculious. If you worked SPAWAR then you would be a line officer. The only way you can do enlisted to officer is either BOOST program, be Gunner(Warrant Officer), or LDO. LDO is not available for line officers. Even a jump from E-8 to O-4 is just out of this world. I personally went the LDO route to the Supply Corp. I would like to think I would know a lil bit about the officers rank.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 7:22:23 AM EDT
Tell her emphatically Don't do it! Others have said 6 months at sea. That's true on the E Coast but cruises are 9 months if she is based out of the W coast (San Diego, San Francisco). Cruises can also be extended if things are going on in the area. Ships are in deep water ports that are typically densely populated. This means high cost of living. You'll be alone because she'll be at sea or working all the time. Navy life is not 8-5. It's 12-12 7 days a week PLUS additional watches. E.g., working 6am-6pm, sleep 3 hours, then man a watch 9pm-midnight, then get up for regular work 6am-6pm; repeat. You can't even buy aspirin on the ship and you may be bunking with 155 of your best friends. If she goes into the Navy, you might as well get a divorce now. She could easily be away for a year. With no recreational outlet onboard ship or in remote areas, people get involved in affairs. If you have any sort of job, forget it. If you want to stay together, you will be following her all over the country. 6 months here, 30 days there, 1.5 years at another place. Or maybe she'll be assigned 6 months unaccompanied. If you're lucky, you would end up in such paradises as Beeville TX where you can't drink a soda with ice in it or it will taste like sulfur. Don't get me wrong. I think the Navy's great for young kids with no attachments that don't know what else to do. But if she is smart and willing to work hard, she can easily be successful in the business world where you can choose your own course instead of some nameless bureaucrat choosing it for you.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 7:26:20 AM EDT
You'll need a higher ASVAB score to get a slot into ET, EW, IT, or IS schools. And one thing they don't tell you is that if you fail out of your "A" school (and people do all the time), you'll get a slot at IBM. Not too shabby, eh? Until you find out that IBM really means [I]Instant Boatswains Mate[/I]! Instead of the real military, maybe your wife would benefit from a visit with the Air Force recruiter? [rolleyes] Another interesting story: My first duty station after "A" & C"" school was a comm station in Naples, Italy. I got there just after the tailwind of a rumor had wrecked havoc on the place. The rumor was that if a woman got pregnant, she'd have to be put back stateside. Rumor control was apparently a little slow in squashing this one, and by the time I got there 25% of Navy personnel were afflicted with pregnancy (half the command was women and half of them got themselves preggo). Needless to say, none of them went home or were discharged. It was bizarre seeing all those pregnant squids. I'll second (or third, or fourth) the notion that the only thing most women get out of the Navy is fat and laid.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 7:28:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 7:44:35 AM EDT
Redray, I apologize for the confusion. I stated that I did five years in the Navy as an enlisted guy and went to work for SPAWAR. I forgot to mention that I had gotten out after five years and was now a civilian contractor when I went to work for SPAWAR. I didn't word it correctly and am sorry for the confusion. That would have been one hell of a promotion E-5 to O-4! Did I make everything clearer? C4
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 10:44:55 AM EDT
The shit is getting deep on this one!! First off you need to ask that anyone replying to this state if they are currently on active duty Navy or not. There is a lot of "back when I was in" bullshit postings here. I am at Navy Recruiting District Seattle. 27yrs old,PO1(E-6), Went active duty '93 and have worked with all the various communities but SeaBee's. I for one was shit canned from recruiting for "having a piss poor attitude"...in other words I don’t give a rats ass if a person joins or not so long as I can see myself serving beside the people I put in. Apparently I as a member of the Navy am not the person who should determine a persons suitability to serve in MY NAVY. What I am getting at is this feel free to contact me and check what the recruiter is telling you. You are in a different district and I wont bullshit you. As for how are females treated. Well unlike civilians life the Navy has rules that put into place to protect our service members. You said she was a waitress. How many asshole customers a week do you think she has to deal with and what rules are in place to protect her? The Navy has a zero tolerance policy for sexual harassment. To be honest it is stacked in FAVOR of the females I have seen more than a few people fry for it. Gone are the days of "Fan room promotions"...that shit don’t fly these days. And just being accused is usually a black mark for a service member. 47 asvab is a big difference from 35. 31 is the minimum with a 1 point waiver available. 50 is considered upper mental group and the majority of our jobs fall into this. Each job has category score requirements and some physical requirements as well i.e. slight hearing loss will disqualify a person from Sonar tech but not from joining. You must also realize that females have less school openings than males. So she might qualify for the job she wants but we cant give her a school quota we do not have. To all those who say nothing is guaranteed FUCK OFF. This is not post Viet Nam. What is on Annex A of your contract is what you get unless YOU fuck up. NJP and academic failures are the main reasons people end up loosing their job. If for some reason your contract is broken you have the option of receiving an entry level separation. Anybody care to argue this feel free it happened to me. The job I joined for went bye bye while I was in school I was given the choice of picking a new job or going home...glad I stayed in. As for how this will impact your life and relationship. Its the military and it will be different from what you are use to. Bottom line is you need to understand the commitment she will be making. I have family members in the Air Force who joined for the "better quality of life" Staying an E-4 for 8 years and being told when and where you will be sent with 30 days to get there sounds like a butt fuck to me. We have 9 months to negotiate where we go...no you don’t always get what you want. But you still have choices. Yes there are deployments currently ships rotate 18-24 months. So every 18-24 months plan on a 6 month deployment. what job she’s in also changes things SeeBees are gone quit a bit from what I understand. There are just as many good marriages as bad just like civilian’s the difference being in the Navy we are family and everybody knows what’s going on with our shipmates. look at the stats we are a mirror of civilian society.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 10:45:50 AM EDT
A good option may be airman apprentice. With the Apprentice program you can get her homeport in writing before she leaves. Airman is the least likely to go to a ship as a female and she can choose what job she gets after she has worked in the various Rates. Bottom line she negotiates her job and any perks before enlisting so its there in ink before she makes the commitment to serve. The GI bill is now 23K and we have 100% TA while you are in. All ships offer courses underway and the flattops have civilian professors on board teaching classes. Nowadays if you didn’t go to school its because it was not your priority. Is it easy fuck no but what is. My father went to Med. school and had to work a full time and a part time job to do it...that sound easy? As for the matter of her age it’s all relative. Physically training may be more difficult. Older people tend to adapt better during boot camp than the kids. Older people realize it’s a game as opposed to the kids who take everything the CC says personally. Those guys work a script everybody is a shitbird till they say otherwise. Fact of the matter is a 35 year old Senator “out ranks” a 53 year old Admiral. Unless you work for yourself most people will at some point have a supervisor who is younger. I have had subordinates that were older than me. Some of them had issues with that fact. Funny thing was the ones that had a problem with me were the ones who thought that their age made them exempt from the duties that went their pay grade. Once again you can contact me for specific questions. Anybody care to make any corrections to what I have said go ahead but you better have a CRUITMAN with you...if you don’t know what that is don’t waste my fucking time. DC1
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 11:12:51 AM EDT
There is nothing better than to hear a Damage Control guy tell you like it is. I like DC's, they don't have time for BS! The Navy promised me a Cryptology job. I got a Cryptology job. The reason I chose the Navy is because they would guarentee me my rate, no other service would do that. Thanks again DC1 for the lecture, makes me miss the Navy! [beer] C4
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 11:38:48 AM EDT
The Navy is also the only service that fills jobs by service-wide tests. That means the "best" (by some standard) are promoted and sent to fill the openings. Good people LOVE this concept. I made E5 in under 2 years, as time-in-rate requirements were waived in my specialty. The downside is that we were so undermanned that we had a sea/shore rotation of 6-1, and we were frequently in two duty sections. Port and Starboard watches get pretty old.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 1:52:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eastsideDC1: A good option may be airman apprentice.
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WOW! You really [i]are[/i] a recruiter! Thank God your here so as there won't be any more bullshit spread about in a non-tidy fashion! My favorite recruiter line (after all the stories about 16 year old strippers in the PI with inch long nipples) goes something like this: Me: [b]"And how's the food when you're underway Petty Officer Biggut?"[/b] MM1 Biggut: [b]"Son, do you like thick steaks?"[/b]
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 2:10:52 PM EDT
"Join the Navy and see the world". Just remember, the world is 3/4 water.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 3:06:47 PM EDT
Correction Dolomite I WAS a recruiter. I am still at the command NRD Seattle. I know people think aprentice is a shit job which is mostly true for Seaman and Fireman. Airmen usally dont have it too bad. Something that is not public knowlege is for aprentice programs a homeport can be specified in the contract. You trade a school for the location. If you think about it where would she be stationed initally. Probably shore duty at an NAS. Is that 100% no but the location would be. Seaman and fireman is damn near a guaranteed billet on a ship female or not thats why I didnt suggest it.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 3:09:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 3:58:47 PM EDT
thedave1164 I just said what I know and have personally dealt wit as far as deployments go. As with all branches I suspect things are realitive to whats going on in the world. The fact of the matter is sad when it comes to sexual hasasment. The odd are stacked in favor of the females...one extreame to the other. Was the recruiter an NC those guys are masters of the dark side of the force. You should have let him write you up it would have to go through your command and if your LCPO had any sack he would have dressed him down for being a lying hunk of shit. Chances are nothing would have been done about it. I guess the problem I have with the subject is if so many people here have been witness to such acts of misconduct what did they do about it? If they turned and walked away then they are equally at fault.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 4:08:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 4:29:35 PM EDT
thedave You did not sound anti-Navy at all. 100% the more informed the better. What I usally see happen is not so much straight up lying that will get you in deep shit. What usally happens is avoiding full disclosure. The "ask me no questions I will tell you no lies" thing. The way I see it if I dont let someone know what they are getting into then that person will not be happy doing the job. I just created a problem for somebody in the Fleet. The result of honesty...got a job better than the one I was fired from. I feel for this guys situation. I dont thin 33 is to old as long as they are prepared for what is in store. SR-EW-MM? Is there a good story to go with that? Sounds like a good night in Melborne.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 6:54:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 7:06:42 PM EDT
DC1, you sound like a straight up dude, I just couldn't help but give a former recruiter some shit. And for the record, Bornfree's wife would be very wise to take DC1 up on his offer to contact him. 4 months in with 44 to go is NOT the time to find out that you and your chosen branch of service are incompatible. Military service [i]can[/i] impart the traits of discipline and personal responsibility unto an individual (note I said [i]can[/i], NOT [i]will[/i]). But they do it by giving you enough rope to hang yourself. To beat that same old drum: You'll get out of it what you put into it.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 11:09:09 PM EDT
Hehehe
Originally Posted By eastsideDC1: Airmen usally dont have it too bad.
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Link Posted: 7/19/2002 4:53:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By USNJoe: Hehehe
Originally Posted By eastsideDC1: Airmen usally dont have it too bad.
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Tell that to the grapes dragging a fuel hose on the flight deck or a brown shirt walking chocks, dragging chains!
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 10:20:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 11:12:01 AM EDT
You were an enlisted guy for 5 years. What rank did you leave with after 5 years? E-4? E-5? It's funny, according to the GS pay scale for you to be the equal of a LCDR ()-5 Navy) you would have to be a GS or GM 13 or 14. I have plenty of friends who are GS, GM, WS and WG workers. Unless you went to school and recieved a degree and had 10+ years experince working as a mid to upper level manager of some sort I doubt you started off at a GS 13 or 14 pay scale. BMG, the Navy has been out of the Bay area for over 10 years now. There are no deployable ships located between San Diego and Bremerton. DC1, you need to get the fuck off of land and get back onto a ship so you can kick the shit outta them recruits you put in so they will be ready to take your place when you make Chief! Of course I can tell you "no-shit storys" all day long. Where I work we had 4 guys who joined the Navy with guarenteed A schools along with Aircrew school and FRAMP training. HOWEVER, after they graduated THE NEEDS OF THE NAVY sent them to a sea going non-aircrew billet for the minimum sea rotation of their rate. All of them had less time on their enlistment left after boot camp, A school, aircrew school and FRAMP for the platform there WERE to go to plus the FRAMP school (Core) for the platform we operate and all 4 left the Navy. None of them could get out of their contracts. In my last command I had to deal with the remains of the last big push of GEN-DETS. You want to talk about a group of people who were bent over and ass reamed with no lube? These people were suppposed to be given the choice of what rate they wanted to strike for (if they did not already have one) when they completed their GEN-DET duty. Go figure, only one of the 12 I had working for me actually recieved the orders she wanted. Out of those 12 9 got out at their 2 year mark and only 1 got what they wanted. A "no shit" story, when I came in I was 21. After a year I was promoted to E-2. We had a group of guys report in, one guy was 35 years old! A 35 year old E-1!! This guy was a major pain in the ass to everyone around him for the very fact that he thought he should be in charge of everyone who was younger than him. He is going to transfer to the Fleet Reserve this year now as an E-5. It's not the fact that he is an E-5, it't the fact that he is going to the Fleet Reserve as a 55 year old! Women in the Navy? I was in a Squadron that had the first female Commanding Officer. She put up with a lot of shit (and so did the squadron as a whole) when she took over. I'll always remember the look on that Air Force Major's face when we landed and he walked up to her EA-7L and asked her where the Commanding Officer of the squadron was and she tore him a new asshole. He was complaining about her first name being typed wrong, that there was no woman who was in charge of a Navy squadron...
Originally Posted By C4iGrant: I am now a Govt. Contractor for the AF. I was an enlisted guy for 5 years and then went to work for SPAWAR and they [b]gave me a rank of LCDR[/b] to complete my work onboard ships. C4
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Link Posted: 7/19/2002 12:13:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C4iGrant: Redray, I apologize for the confusion. I stated that I did five years in the Navy as an enlisted guy and went to work for SPAWAR. I forgot to mention that I had gotten out after five years and was now a civilian contractor when I went to work for SPAWAR. I didn't word it correctly and am sorry for the confusion. That would have been one hell of a promotion E-5 to O-4! Did I make everything clearer? C4
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[red]NO, actually you keep digging a deeper hole from where i stand. where does the rank of LCDR come into play here? if youre going to explain something, give us details. otherwise enough with the grandstanding bullshit.[/red] bornfree, might be a better idea to get training from a state or federal program and have the missus find a job in the civilian sector. that, in my opinion, would be the way to go. there was another member here (i forget her name) who had a child (no hubby) that wanted to sign up in the Navy as well. people did respond to her (me included) and we gave her a very honest picture of how her life was going to be. needless to say, she dropped that idea real quick. the military welcomes all BUT it is not for everyone (male or female).
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