I don't remember ever seeing this question posted a lot when Bill Clinton was our "Commander and Cheese".

My cousin's husband is a retired Army Major, served in Vietnam, Panama, and Kuwait.  He says overnight the military under Clinton changed and become all PC among other things, he talked me out of going in.

We're past that now.  But Hillary is running in 4 years.  What then?  How can anyone salute that bitch?

I know this isn't quite on topic, but maybe someone knows the answer.  This thread made me remember about it.  Is there any way to unregister for selective service?  I registered when 18 as normal, but a year later was hospitalized with a seizure, and diagnosed with epilepsy.  I've never had another seizure(been 6 years), but can no longer become a pilot (was in ground pilot classes at the time), had drivers license suspended for 90 days, and was told I can never serve in the military, as well as other things.

So anyway, I was wondering if it is possible to deactivate my registration so I never get hassled if a draft or something similar is ever put in effect.

Frankly I believe I could serve with no problems if called, not on medication, and haven't had another seizure, but they say I can't fly, so my feelings are "screw them".

Unfortunately I wasn't doing any drugs in college, or else I would have had no penalties for having a seizure, and would not have been dianosed as epeleptic.  

Lesson for anyone having seizures that has not seen a doctor yet, GET SOME NARCOTICS, they will test for them, and then blame everything on the drugs.  You will keep all your priviledges, flying, military, license, etc..

[pissed]

So when these 18 year olds are out in the field learning weapon skills, 95% will never use, Who will be learning to be our doctors, lawers, business men?  It kinds makes me laugh.  I never served a day in the military, but I'll bet I have done more for my country than half of you that have served.  Being in the military doesn't make you any better of an American as the guy sweeping a floor at Home Depot.  What really makes a person a true American is your actions in life.  I personally decided to educate myself and persue a job that would secure my future.  Does that make me a bad person?  Should have I been forced to go serve?  If so, Maybe when your done serving, we should teach a few jarheads some math and computer skills so they can BETTER our society.

I have great respect for inlisted Americans.  And they should have great respect for us who don't serve.

PS-Last I knew, 50% of the military is there due to a lack of opportunity in their lives...

Amen, Gunfighter.

Not meaning to disparage the military, but military service is generally pretty easy compared to the "civilian sector."  I say this because I have done both.

I can't believe that some yahoo who enlists to be an MP is a better American than, for example, my kid's pediatrician who never served in the military but did spend 7 grueling years of his life in medical school and residency.

And being single and being in the military is riduculously easy.  In fact, it's an excellent adventure if you get with the rght unit.

Gunfighter, your reply is full of holes.  Where to start?  How about the possibility that some of those 18 year-olds will be learning actual civillian job skills.  My brother-in-law is currently the maintenance foreman for a large institution with the Bureau of Prisons.  He's not a college graduate, just learned a few things in the Navy.  He earns an above average income, will retire well, and is probably glad he chose the path he did.  Who will be attending civillian schools?  The 20 year-olds.  This country would probably survive a year without the addition of thousands of lawyers.  Check your local yellow pages.  There is no shortage in my area.  It might even make the skilled civillian professional more valuable to his employer, justifying a higher wage, end result:  more taxes paid to the gov't, used to support a larger millitary.

By your own admission, you have never served, but have advanced this country further and sacrificed more than 50% of those who have.  With this attitude, I really have to question how you could have such "great respect" for these lesser beings.

Lastly, the millitary is a real opportunity in many ways, not a last-ditch effort when there are none.

Mandatory service? Are we in Nazi Germany?
To do this would you make the United States a Communist country or would you simply change the defenition of Republic to mean the same of Communism?

Mandatory service? Are we in Nazi Germany?
To do this would you make the United States a Communist country or would you simply change the defenition of Republic to mean the same of Communism?

[url]www.sustainable.tv[/url]

Forced Patriotism is the first step towards a dictatorship. This is a paraphrase of a quote that I saw.  I cannot remember the author but I thought it would be appropriate for this thread.  I have a great deal of respect for the military in general but people need to realize that we are not China. Our country is not run by the military.  Mandatory military service would not enhance the military and would have limited benefits for the people required. We do not exist to serve the military.  We all should serve or help our country in some way but each should serve as his abilities and skills merit.  Some of the people on this thread are probably against the new requirements in some schools that force kids to volunteer in selected programs in order to graduate.  This is not that much different.

No to Mandotory Service - Keep Military lean, mean and fit that way.. otherwise we will need to issue "blow pipes" to arm everyone!

Yeh.. To "chain gang" to change our Prison system, meaning less pot holes on roads, no toll, clean roadways, clean and pretty America and less Taxes to pay .. more ammo to buy from less taxes and more fun for everyone!

and .. Allow America to protect itself my arming the citizens .. Allowing M16s to own by every "good citizen" would not be a bad idea!

I say no to National Service. I'm an Army Reservist, and the thing I enjoy most about this organization is everyone is committed to it, and everyone wants to be there. When I tell someone to do something, or I am asked to do something, it gets done -  with no bitiching or complaining. Try leading a group of soldiers that don't want to be there. It's a waste of time and money.  

When I was in University, there was a group of German students in my class from an exchange program. They said that National Service was manditory in Germany, but if you didn't want to join the Armed Forces, you could work a year in the Social Services Sector, i.e., soup kitchens, health care, Social Work etc. This way, the people who are not interested in military training could provide a National Service, rather than causing havoc with the Armed Forces. If National Service has to be, then this is the way to go.

[heavy]

Signals

I had a good friend from Finland.  He had to do two years active duty in his country.  All males did once they hit the age of 18.

Of course this was in the mid to late 80's and things could have changed.

I think two years mandatory would be ideal.

It might cut back on some of the wimp-assed kids this generation has raised and in the long run just may improve the economic, scholastic and crime situations in our country by giving a much more disciplined and better trained base to work from.  It would have sure been good for me.  Crap, I could have been close to retirement age by now!

Sure, some folks would whine but that would be far better than the troubles those same folks might wind up causing if left to their own devices.

Just my 02 but hey, then again, I am a hard-ass!


Col. X

I am pretty much with Heinlein.  But, shorter terms.  Make them go through basic training, and keep an inactive reserve status for 3 years.  I think this should be optional, but if you don't do it, you don't vote, you don't run for public office.  

James

I can't believe anyone on this board would vote for mandatory service. The right not to serve is a Constitionally protected right.
People say "I want the government to take your families guns away" and you cry.
You then turn around and say "I want the government to force your family to join the military".
Your gun rights are in jeapordy because people are using the unrighteous unconstitutional strength of our government to force their will upon you. The same way anyone who votes for mandatory service is using it. Anyone who votes their will to be enforced by the government over another has absolutely no moral right to argue against gun control. YOU ARE THE CAUSE WE ARE LOSING OUR GUNS. Are you people serious or are you just trying to inflame me?
The benefits from it are irrelivant.
I'm going to go meditate now before I blow a gasket.

Amen, Gus.  However, I'm facing 9 years total for medical school and residency, and I say......BRING IT ON.

I still don't buy the fact that two years of required military service are going to "fix" our societal problems.  I really don't think that any DI, no matter how tough, can undo 18 years of bad habits and lack of discipline that screw up parents allow.  To me, it looks like many of you believe that the military could take the place of good parenting and good old fashioned home discipline.  It won't happen.  They have tried for years in public schools to "make up for bad parents", and it hasn't worked there.  What would make the military any different?

Any of you who think that "freedom" to choose, didn`t live through vietnam days and the good ole draft!!! any of you who don`t think that military service "can`t take the place of good old fashioned parenting" (which IS correct) have`nt worked with shock inmates, young kids gone astray by the "lack of good old fashioned parenting" many, many of them well off financially and position in life....UNCLE SAM does "what the hell he wants" and if we go to war with china, MOST of you (doctors/lawyers/gaspumpers) ARE going to be usmc/us army!!! that is, unless you exercize your RIGHTS, and pull a billy bob clinton.........[rocket]

First, let me get it out the way:
US Army, 11B1P, 1/52nd inf

Now, how can any of you put on that uniform, look at yourselves in the mirror, and say that "yeah, I think forcing all of our young people into military service would be a neat idea".

What you are really saying "since the well being of society is more important than individual liberty, I think it would be allright to deprive our citizens of some of their freedom to do them some good and improve society as a whole".

Congratulations, liberal communist swine.

I know you guys mean well, but for God's sake, think before you take a stand on something.

Bill Wallace

Maybe you should "think" before you call anybody on this board LIBERAL COMMUNIST ANYTHING!!!!!!...gee, i think i heard something about Timothy Mcviegh bieng us army...was that a rumor?......[frag]

If it walks like a duck...

However, that was not meant as an accusation or insult.  It was meant to suggest that some people were unwittingly taking a CLEARLY socialist position on an issue.

Do not retreat into "you called me a what" nonsense to avoid the issue.

Bill Wallace

Retreat/avoid? where the hell are YOU coming from? i know, you`re one of those guys who has a job in state or federal management position......sorry boss, NOW i understand........[frag]

Look at your replies to my post.  Look carefully.  Now ask yourself:

"Do my replies actually have anything to do with the topic?"

Avoid?  You?  Nahhhh.......

There was a time when I was very much in favor of mandatory conscription...and there are times now when I see a little snot-nosed teenager cruising around with his rap music blaring in the BMW that mommy and daddy gave him that I still harbor the thought - BUT - the military (at least in our country) is not a surrogate parent and in most cases will not replace what some little turd didn't learn before age 5 (like the ability to know right from wrong, respect, etc.)
I joined the Army when I was 20 for a whole set of reasons, none of which had anything to do with having no direction or options.  I was a successful college student, and I simply felt something was lacking.  I felt the need to give something to my country.  I'm glad I did it, I value the experience, and I learned many things that still serve me well a couple of decades later.  But, during my tenure in Uncle Sam's Green Machine, and being in combat arms, I had ample opportunity to observe (and train) many of the 'cream of our nation's youth' who were basically just societal debris.  They floated into the Army because there wasn't anything else they could do at the time.  Some of these folks - a few - turned out to be excellent soldiers, but many more were never more when they checked out of the OD Hotel than they were when they came in - losers.  I remember thinking on more than one occasion, "And I am supposed to trust my LIFE to these jackasses?"  Mnadatory conscription would only increase that effect, if  not worsen it, since ostensibly even the losers I dealt with had volunteered and therefore [i]wanted to be there[/i].  If someone is there and they really don't want to be, I think it is a fallacy to believe they would somehow suddenly transform into something that they never were before.
IMHO, military service might be a worthy requirement for those who someday hope to seek public office (ESPECIALLY Commander in Chief!) or work for the government, but military service (or the lack thereof) should have nothing to do with the basic rights of US citizenship.

Too right.

If you're a loser when you enlist, you will be a loser when you are discharged.

Which is not to say that military service will not improve people, but you need good "raw material" to start with.

We had a better class of "societal debris" in the Marine Corps.  Especially in the infantry.  Say what you want, at least people enlist in the Marine Infantry for the right reasons.  (Adventure, action, challenge, to kick ass, etc.)

Mandatory military or civil service? HELL NO!
Why? Well since the military wouldn't let me serve due to medical reasons they'd have to stick me in some goddammed peace corp hauling corn to Ethiopians who haven't figured out how to properly govern and feed themselves in the past 3000 years. Screw that. Now if I could get into the military despite my asthma I'd be signing papers in the recruiting office this afternoon, tossing my cushy office job in no time flat!

Good to see all you 2nd ammendment right-cherishing patriots espousing slavery.  When someone has the right to tell me what to do, or send me into a life-threatening situation against my will, then I am his property.  I am not the government's property.  My children are not the government's property.  Call it conscription, call it mandatory service, call it what you wish...it is slavery.  Before all you patriots jump down my throat, I volunteered to serve; but that is an entirely different thing.  I chose to enter into a contract.

Mandatory service leads the nation to a dictatorship?  Hmm. Interesting, since this nation had the Selective Service draft until
fairly recent times. (late 70's) I don't recall
any big democracy threats due to someone being
drafted.  I served in the 60's - I registered
but enlisted before I was called.  Could the
draft be of great use? Maybe not, but I believe
it CAN be a valuble instrument in helping young
guys keep out of jail.  All of you guys on this
board who seem to dispise the idea of serving in the uniform - I am glad you weren't around on 12-7-1941.  As for the military, I never thought of it as "slavery." Maybe when I send my
1040 to IRS, I might bandy the word around.
"Communist Swine?" Where does that come from?
Because I make a statement about my belief, that
makes me a "Liberal Communist Swine?" I don't
make my views unwittingly, either.  John

So then let me get this straight...

You ARE in support of, as someone so eloquently put it, "slavery" in the name of national and social interest?

A lot of you flag wavers talk about how it would improve the society of this country and keep young people out of trouble.  That's real noble of you, trying to improve society at the cost of individual liberty. (socialist)

Of course this country needs soldiers, especially in time of war, and when this country needs something, what is a little thing like individual rights?  Who cares, right?  It's the good of society and the great United States of Amerika.  (socialist)

"I served, and so should everyone else".

("I don't have guns, so no one else should have them either".)

Selective service...sure, we have it, and we had a draft.  We also have the Brady Bill.  Does that make it right?

If we didn't have the draft in the 60s and 70s...oh no!  The communists would have taken over Vietnam!  What ever are we to do!  How can we sleep at night knowing that the Vietnamese are communists.  (remind me who cares?)

Listen...there is nothing wrong with puting the interests of your country above individual liberty.  There is nothing wrong with socialism.  Europe is a great place, a lot of us love to go there on vacation.  They do it all the time, and they are happy, productive, and cultured people.

But correct me if I'm wrong...we were supposed to have something a little different over on this side of the ocean.  

If you want to protect America by sacrificing the ideals upon which it was founded, you are not protecting America, you are protecting a piece of real estate north of Mexico.

Spare me replies of "how dare you call me a socialist, I have a medal of honor and killed 6000 communists for my country while you were still in diapers blah blah blah blah blah blah"

Like I said...if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, guess what?  It's a f*cking duck.

Bill Wallace

We don't despise the idea of military service, we just don't like the idea that we should have mandatory military service...as well as mandatory ass-kissing of veterans.

Like I said, most military service is relatively easy, especially during peacetime.  On the difficulty scale  I would rate it considerably below starting and running a business.  

There are other activities that will build character better than military service.  In fact, you can get into a lot of "non-character building situations" in the military.  Recall, if you will, the disgraceful collection of whorehouses and bars outside our former Phillipine bases.  Outside of most bases, for that matter.

Which is not to say that I didn't enjoy liberty in those kinds of places, but I'm not sanctimonious or self-righteous about it either.

I think you were called a "communist swine" because you advocate a practice which, on the face of it, is more in keeping with a totalitarian dictatorship than a free country.

Besides, if we can't get enough volunteers to fight a war, maybe we shouldn't be involved in the war in the first place.

"All of you guys on this
board who seem to dispise the idea of serving in the uniform - I am glad you weren't around on 12-7-1941."

I don't despise the idea of serving in a uniform.  I have served in a uniform, voluntarily.  What I despise is the idea of forcing someone to serve.

In 1941, our nation was sill young.  We had many things to hash out.  Blacks and women could not vote.  We had a draft.  Times were not perfect.

WWII was a noble cause.  My grandfather was a highly decorated veteran of that war.  Using the draft to provide fighting men for that war was wrong.  Maybe we would have lost without it, but the end should not justify the means.  Well, unless you're a democrat.

"As for the military, I never thought of it as "slavery"."

That's because you volunteered.  Jail wouldn't be jail if you chose to go there.  If you force someone into the military, you might as well throw them in jail.  You are confining them against their will, forcing them to labor against their will, and forcing them to don a uniform that they had no desire to wear.

What will that uniform mean then?  Might as well paint black stripes accross it.

Being a citizen of the United States means having the right to decide for yourself the course of your life.  If it doesn't, then it doesn't mean anything at all.

Bill Wallace