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Posted: 7/6/2002 2:35:24 PM EDT
From todays New York Times at [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/06/national/06SHOO.html?pagewanted=print&position=top[/url] Registration required, but is free.
When Mr. Hadayet started shooting, an El Al security guard grabbed his arm and began to wrestle with him. Almost immediately, Haim Sapir, the airline's head of security, stepped out from behind the counter and shot Mr. Hadayet, who continued shooting and lashing out with the knife. Mr. Sapir took a few steps closer to Mr. Hadayet and shot again, Mr. McLaughlin said. Still, Mr. Hadayet struggled. The two security guards and a third man — a trauma surgeon from Beaumont, Tex., named David Parkus — struggled with Mr. Hadayet, who had fallen to the ground but continued to shoot and lash out. Mr. Sapir was shot once and stabbed several times in the fight, Mr. McLaughlin said, and the other security guard suffered minor stab wounds. Finally, the life ebbed from Mr. Hadayet, who died on the floor. F.B.I. agents said that the clip in his gun was empty and that they believed he had fired all 10 rounds.
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Something a bit more effective would have been useful here. Either that, or work on their marksmanship. This guy kept fighting till he passed out from loss of blood...
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 2:41:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 2:44:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 2:52:38 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Point taken Troy, still, why do I have this feeling that Mr. Safirs handgun was only a .380- or less? And yes I am looking through the wire reports to see if I can find out what he was using for sure, but no luck yet...
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 2:49:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:08:57 PM EDT
.45.........
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:38:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: .45.........
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Yep,, the silvertips work fine.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:47:52 PM EDT
Did the security officer only shoot 2 times compared to 10 from the suspect?? It only recounts 2 shots by the security officer. Of course we know how accurate that might be. We covered this, regardless of caliber, or weapon type, once you are threatened with unlawful deadly force, and you decide that shooiting at the suspect is tactical viable, shoot until they suspect stops being a threat. If that means 1 shot, or 9, shoot until they stop. I wonder if the security officer that was shooting wasn't trying to shoot while the othe security officer and the Dr. were struggling with the suspect, trying to keep him from effectively using his weapons, while inadvertantly obscuring the suspect from the security officer that was in a postion to shoot at the suspect.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:17:20 PM EDT
I remember a video we watched in college, I think it was one of the "Street Stoppers" series, but the video had actual footage of a clerk being shot 6 times during a robbery (some directly into the heart) and surving long enough after the robbers left to call 911 for herself. Jake
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:00:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Finally, the life ebbed from Mr. Hadayet, who died on the floor. F.B.I. agents said that the clip in his gun was empty and that they believed he had fired all 10 rounds.
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I have never seen a clip in a handgun. If an FBI guy really called it a clip, then he is a real dumbass.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:02:24 PM EDT
There have been many documented shooting incidents where fatally wounded subjects have returned controlled fire and then promptly expired. In other incidents subjects have been incapacitated and killed with one-shot flesh wounds. Several years ago in a firefight with two police officers a subject was shot through the heart with a 12ga shotgun slug. He was able to return fire for approximately one minute killing one of the PO's. The El Al security personnel and the trauma surgeon should be commended for their actions. They ended the attack successfully without any further injury to anyone.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:08:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rkbar15: There have been many documented shooting incidents where fatally wounded subjects have returned controlled fire and then promptly expired. In other incidents subjects have been incapacitated and killed with one-shot flesh wounds. Several years ago in a firefight with two police officers a subject was shot through the heart with a 12ga shotgun slug. He was able to return fire for approximately one minute killing one of the PO's. The El Al security personnel and the trauma surgeon should be commended for their actions. They ended the attack successfully without any further injury to anyone.
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Can you say, "FBI", "Miami", "two dead agents".
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:12:00 PM EDT
LARRYG: "I have never seen a clip in a handgun. If an FBI guy really called it a clip, then he is a real dumbass. " The only handguns to use a 'clip' being C96 Mauser Broomhandle's, 1912 Steyr's & a few other outdated turn of the century designs...+ the Grendel pocket pistol.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:16:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 6:17:30 PM EDT by Corey]
So the BG had one of those PC 10 round magazines in his 9mm? Guess they do a lot to prevent crime, huh? [rolleyes] IMHO the security guard's weapon did more to prevent (further) crime than any gun-grabber's ban. But I'm preaching to the choir.... [:(] EDITED for typo.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:17:36 PM EDT
ArmdLbrl, it's possible that with all the people in the airport, and this idiot moving around, and all the people moving also, a clear shot couldn't be taken. Unless that is, if one just ran up and shot the moron at point blank. It would be great if the media would get ONE story staight, but with them reporting hair clips in guns, I don't think it's possible. ha ha
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:34:21 PM EDT
Take a look at [url=communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/11april86.html]the FBI Miami Firefight[/url] if you want to see the classic case study exploding the myth of the one shot stop. Platt and Matix were military veterans, and didn't buy into the notion that if you're shot, you're done. You shoot until the threat is down and no longer a threat. Not that it's going to come as a surprise to anyone, but I'm sure the only reason that the bad guy at LAX got off all ten shots while the El Al security guy got off only two was that the bad guy didn't care who he hurt -the more, the better in his f'd up view- and the El Al guy did. Bravo Zulu, El Al guy!
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 10:37:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 10:39:22 PM EDT
10mm Glock! 45-70 Revolver!!
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 10:51:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: .45.........
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Yep !
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 10:54:06 PM EDT
What would St. Gabriel Possenti have to say about this?
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 5:45:06 AM EDT
The armed El Al security agent did a good job.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 5:50:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: I have never seen a clip in a handgun. If an FBI guy really called it a clip, then he is a real dumbass.
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[img]http://www.iar-arms.com/images3/c96-10.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 6:13:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 7:24:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 12:07:21 PM EDT
His wounds were fatal, center of the chest. But even though his heart was pierced, experts have stated in interviews that a perpetrator can still move around for about 20 seconds before his blood supply to his brain runs out. Which sounds like exactly what happened. The bystandard that grabbed his legs while he was on the ground being subdued by El Al security noticed that he got a couple stabs in and then all of a sudden just went limp.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 12:25:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Corey: So the BG had one of those PC 10 round magazines in his 9mm? Guess they do a lot to prevent crime, huh? [rolleyes] IMHO the security guard's weapon did more to prevent (further) crime than any gun-grabber's ban. But I'm preaching to the choir.... [:(] EDITED for typo.
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I think the FBI stated the shooter used his Glock .45 but I could be wrong, anybody with clarification?
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 12:34:13 PM EDT
Local paper stated that it was a Glock 21 (45ACP) and a 9mm that the attacker had.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 5:23:05 PM EDT
i believe the guard got off only 2 shots because of the other guard struggling with the attacker made it hard to get more clean shots. Trust me , they dont fuck around, if he was able to he would have emptied a mag into that sucker. I believe they use a Sig p-226 9mm
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