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Posted: 4/5/2001 12:40:25 AM EDT
[#1]
i have been in the south china sea area( 3 cruises 2 west pacs and an i.o. the water is warm and usually flat.. fly it or ditch it...pat
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Posted: 4/5/2001 5:04:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Ever think, that the lack of balls of the new military has anything to do with it?
These new recruits even at West Point cannot even run in boots, they can hold up a time out card in training if they feel pressured, please, the KLINTUN ERA has brough forth an army of one, a gay brigade, and giving medals to cowards ref: those punks that were captured in the early days in Kosavo, purple hearts for getting beat up, please, cowards everywhere! I remember the days when you would get an ass kicking from the DI for screwing up, would you then be qualified for a purple heart? HELL NO, but when you award cowardace, you must expect others to follow by example! The recent issue of Military Magazine points out that the Green Beret and the Seals cannot and will not ever again meet their recruiting quotas, a reflection of the sad state of the youth of the America of today! TIME OUT CARD FOR ANYONE? The ROC-APES know this, in fact the whole world knows it now, Americans will not fight, for they have nothing to fight for anymore, not even for their personally owned arms! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 5:32:13 AM EDT
[#3]
ANDREUSAN,
Thank you, a$$hole, for insulting anyone in my generation who has or would be willing to serve in the military. Whatever direction the military has taken i.e. time out cards, etc. has been the result of [i]the few[/i] as opposed to the many. Instead of acknowledge that the military is a direction reflection of society's views you chose to spout off about the "lack of balls" and other such derogatory generalities. Have you hit a nerve? Heck yes. [-!-] |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 6:12:03 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: If anyone ordered him to land on CHICOM soil they should be cashiered out of the service. Ditching at sea is hazzardous but not as you would led us to believe. Yeah, I'm sure you've done it lots of times, Hero. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 6:17:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By Miss Magnum: ANDREUSAN, Thank you, a$$hole, for insulting anyone in my generation who has or would be willing to serve in the military. Whatever direction the military has taken i.e. time out cards, etc. has been the result of [i]the few[/] as opposed to the many. Instead of acknowledge that the military is a direction reflection of society's views you chose to spout off about the "lack of balls" and other such derogatory generalities. Have you hit a nerve? Heck yes. [-!-] Too bad the truth hurts you, and frankly I do not give a damn what you think missey whatever! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 6:28:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Let's see.. we've got ageism and now sexism illustrated by your posts. Any other ignorant statements you'd like to make?
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Posted: 4/5/2001 6:43:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By Miss Magnum: Let's see.. we've got ageism and now sexism illustrated by your posts. Any other ignorant statements you'd like to make? Judging from your "ism" attitude you forget your most cherished one "communism"! It is that being "RED IS BETTER THAN DEAD", is your realm! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 6:44:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By Miss Magnum: Let's see.. we've got ageism and now sexism illustrated by your posts. Any other ignorant statements you'd like to make? Judging from your "ism" attitude you forget your most cherished one "communism"! It is that "BEING RED IS BETTER THAN DEAD", is your realm! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 6:54:28 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm amazed at the crap being tossed around by the never-been-there, never-done-that, but I watched it on TV once crew.
Flying big aircraft isn't always like what you see on TV. People die in ditchings. Airplanes break up in ditchings. The wings are made to fly through air, not hit water. Norm |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 7:07:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Openly flying over international waters monitoring CHICOM military voice, fax, data, radar, microwave transmissions; pinpointing, probing, ploting air defense, missle batteries,and a myriad of outher unknown duties. Spy, surveil, eavesdrop, recon all conjur images of trying to find secrets that someone else does'nt want you know. Whatsupwithyourhead? Well big whoop-dee-doo! If they didn't want us to know things, don't you think they would encrypt their communications? poor innocent Soviets or Chinese aren't doing the same thing to us, right? Get real, people. What, How do you think we got to be the world superpower that we are and maintain that position? By sitting on our hands whilst awaiting our poor wittle ol' potential foes to catch up to us? Crap, how naive can some of you be? Boomer, Is anybody home? Of course the chicom encode. The equipment on the plane and on their link ups DECODE! Thats one of the major problems, they got the hardware. Very soon they will be at par with the US. " Now we have to start all over from scratch." Pentagon Offical |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 7:23:54 AM EDT
[#11]
I would like to know how many people condemning the pilot have even served in the military or have been in such a crisis if they have served. Particularly, andreusan and hangfire. Have either one of you served? Have you been in combat? Not slamming you, just asking where you get your perspective.
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Posted: 4/5/2001 7:33:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Anderusan, get your info straight before you go bashing poeple. The "time out" cards you speak of were a ONE TIME experiment at Ft. Jackson, that is not current practice, nor has it been. People who go around basing thier thoughts on urban legends they don't check out don't lend much credibilty to anything they say.
Before you say I don't know what I am talking about, I am sitting on Ft Jackson right now and discussed this matter with a Drill SGT in the NCO club for a pretty good while last night. I don't think you can get your info any straighter from the horses mouth. I love Military Magazine and am a subscriber, but they don't do nearly as much fact-checking as they should. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 7:34:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Boomer, Is anybody home? Of course the chicom encode. The equipment on the plane and on their link ups DECODE! Thats one of the major problems, they got the hardware. Very soon they will be at par with the US. " Now we have to start all over from scratch." Pentagon Offical To be honest, I was beginning to wonder the same about you. So tell me, if I ripped the hard drive out of my computer and threw it into the middle of the ocean and then blew up the rest of my computer with a small explosive device, how much sense could you make of the circuit board fragments or what information could you gather from the other remains? And regardless of what you or I think, it has already been established that the crew of the plane was in contact with their superiors and were thus only doing as they were instructed/ordered/commanded/what you want to call it. My guess is that you have never served in the armed forces thereby and have little or no understanding of exactly how important following orders is. Being ordered to land your semi-sophisticated but crippled aircraft in a foreign nation that we are not at war with hardly qualifies as an unlawful order. I'm sure you would rather the crew disobey a lawful, direct order and ditch at sea just to show you what big balls they had only to go down in a court martial later on for having done so. And God forbid had anyone been killed as a consequence of disobeying a lawful, direct order. I'm confident that individuals a lot more qualified than you or I called this shot. I have no reason to second guess them and have yet to see you provide any creditable reason for doing so, either. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 7:36:53 AM EDT
[#14]
"Judging from your "ism" attitude you forget your most cherished one "communism"! It is that "BEING RED IS BETTER THAN DEAD", is your realm!"... quoted by ANDREUSAN
I see you are a fan of the slippery slope theory. I say you are exhibiting ageism and you conclude that I must be a proponent of communism. Yeah.. THAT makes perfect sense. ::dripping sarcasm:: |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 7:42:10 AM EDT
[#15]
Andreusan and Hangfire,
If either of you two patriots and heroes can tell us about when you were actually in a situation similar to the one with this aircraft, and how you handled it to a better outcome than this crew did, I'd be obliged for you to speak up about it now. If you haven't been in a situation like that, please tell me on what basis I should accept your criticisms of what the crew did as valid. Both of you are classic lead-from-the-rear internet blowhards. FOAD. cordially, Golgo-13 p.s. Although I am not part of Miss Magnum's generation, I agree that insulting generalizations are inaccurate and out of place. I'd rather have her backing me up in a serious situation than either of you. She's never made the kind of idiotic, jingoistic, hoopie-militianut posts that you two puke onto this board with saddening regularity. G13 |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 7:42:40 AM EDT
[#16]
Miss Magnum, I don't know if the raw recruits themselves are any less qualified or competent these days, but wouldn't you agree that less rigorous training and standards is going to turn out a less capable soldier?
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Posted: 4/5/2001 8:11:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Hangfire, save all that crap about the "Crown Jules" and that obsolete plane for someone else to swallow. phrase not I. Dont start taking what i said out of context as i was refering to the distigished flying cross and not the navy cross for saving his crew under deress and vary dangerous circumstances. "...will awarded a the 'FLIGHT CROSS' for his action." You imprecise little whelp; you were out of context using the phrase 'FLIGHT CROSS'! You then have the termity to accuse me of taking you out of context because you are so stupid as to not be able to say what you mean and mean what you say. Remember this is a general discussion board so show a little respect as i spent eight years in the fleet If your posts and your convoluted logic are indicitive of your service in the fleet I thank God they got rid of you before you did anymore damage. After 8 years of service you call the DFC the 'FLIGHT CROSS' makes you sound like a R.E.M.F. if i ever heard one. Go write some more Tom Clancy books Jr.. "Good to go"? HELL NO |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 8:17:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Hangfire, I ask again, have you ever been in the military and have you ever been in a combat or crisis situation while in? You are very insulting to people and I would like to know from what perspective you garner your responses.
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Posted: 4/5/2001 8:36:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: If anyone ordered him to land on CHICOM soil they should be cashiered out of the service. Ditching at sea is hazzardous but not as you would led us to believe. Yeah, I'm sure you've done it lots of times, Hero. Don't be condesending HiPower. If you can't argue the merits, don't argue and don't pout. I have never ditched at sea but I was on the USS Darby in the mid-atlantic when we got smacked by a Hurricane for 3 days. Waves higher than the mast, bow plowing so deep that the bridge glass was blown in and the shuddering and groaning of the ship..... Never the less as we discuss the incident here it is be dicussed by our military and civilian leaders and I am quite sure as they argue the pros and cons they are NOT calling their opponets HERO or any of the outher invectives used by some people in this dicussion. GROW UP! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 8:51:27 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Andreusan and Hangfire, If either of you two patriots and heroes can tell us about when you were actually in a situation similar to the one with this aircraft, and how you handled it to a better outcome than this crew did, I'd be obliged for you to speak up about it now. If you haven't been in a situation like that, please tell me on what basis I should accept your criticisms of what the crew did as valid. Both of you are classic lead-from-the-rear internet blowhards. FOAD. cordially, Golgo-13 p.s. Although I am not part of Miss Magnum's generation, I agree that insulting generalizations are inaccurate and out of place. I'd rather have her backing me up in a serious situation than either of you. She's never made the kind of idiotic, jingoistic, hoopie-militianut posts that you two puke onto this board with saddening regularity. G13 like you? I don't recall MSMAGNUM calling for your help so whats up? Are you saying YOU HAVE NEVER " MADE A IDIOTIC, JINGOISTIC, HOOPIE??- MILITANUT POST" Are you saying that a person can't debate their convictions? I just went over the three pages of replys to the topic and not a word have you written about the topic. No you ignore the topic and prefer to backstab, blindside, etc. two members discussing the topic. WHATSUPWITHTHAT? |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 9:05:48 AM EDT
[#21]
I don't have an opinion on what the crew of that aircraft did, Hangfire, because I'm not qualified to have one. Neither are you. I am, however, a member of this board (have been one longer than you, in fact) and I do have an opinion on you. Since I have been here to witness your witless drivel right from your first post, I am qualified to have that opinion. I've also known Miss Magnum through this board for a good while and I have found that I agree with her far more often than not. She didn't ask for my help, nor does she need it when dealing with the likes of you. Mainly, I think your "patriotic" posturings serve no purpose but to help you feel tuff and increase the noise-to-signal ratio here.
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Posted: 4/5/2001 9:12:26 AM EDT
[#22]
I, earned the right, 66 to 95 and have the right to say, "they are effen cowards!"
For those of you who, believe red, is better than dead, you will get exactly what you deserve! Read some of General George Pattons now famous speaches, to understand what an effen coward is, and read what his solution was to cowards! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 9:19:21 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Andreusan and Hangfire, If either of you two patriots and heroes can tell us about when you were actually in a situation similar to the one with this aircraft, and how you handled it to a better outcome than this crew did, I'd be obliged for you to speak up about it now. If you haven't been in a situation like that, please tell me on what basis I should accept your criticisms of what the crew did as valid. Both of you are classic lead-from-the-rear internet blowhards. FOAD. cordially, Golgo-13 p.s. Although I am not part of Miss Magnum's generation, I agree that insulting generalizations are inaccurate and out of place. I'd rather have her backing me up in a serious situation than either of you. She's never made the kind of idiotic, jingoistic, hoopie-militianut posts that you two puke onto this board with saddening regularity. G13 Boy, you really are another sick puppy, not standing for freedom of speech, you commie asstard! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 9:26:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By LARRY G: I would like to know how many people condemning the pilot have even served in the military or have been in such a crisis if they have served. Particularly, andreusan and hangfire. Have either one of you served? Have you been in combat? Not slamming you, just asking where you get your perspective. My perspective has developed over a period of 57 years. My Father was in the AAC and the USAF' retireing in 1964 and going to work on the BMWES and later DCA. I have worked at BMEWS, Navy Annex, Pentagon, NRC, FAA, and LBNSY. I have had extensive social contacts with political and military personal through my work, marrage, siblings, relatives, friends and politics. I trust no one and I question everyone. Now that I have complied with your request, I make the same request of you! Got to go walk the dog. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 9:26:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Before you say I don't know what I am talking about, I am sitting on Ft Jackson right now and discussed this matter with a Drill SGT in the NCO club for a pretty good while last night. I don't think you can get your info any straighter from the horses mouth. I love Military Magazine and am a subscriber, but they don't do nearly as much fact-checking as they should. Is it me? Is not Ft. Jackson in South Carolina, you claim to be in NC, what gives? |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 10:16:11 AM EDT
[#26]
One thing that should be kept in mind during this debate is that the crew most likely followed whatever orders were in place and whatever their training told them to do.
It may be that they were able to destroy enough of the equipment and data to make landing in China a justifiable contingency plan. If China did get damaging technology from the aircraft, then the blame should rest squarely on the leadership and not on the crew. (Assuming they did not violate orders. If they did, I'm sure we will find out about it eventually.) I say this because the crew would have had a contingency plan. They would have had to be fools to undertake such a flight without a plan about what to do if something goes wrong. Most likely the airfield they landed on was a known emergency airfield. The questions that come up in my mind are: Was the plan good enough? (Meaning did information get into the hands of the Chinese) If it wasn't good enough why not? Unfortunately, we will never be sure of the answer to the first question because it would remain classified. If some information did get into the hands of the Chinese, I blame the training and orders in place. They could have had another plan. I'll go a step farther and say that if they needed a better plan and didn't have one, then it's because we have been lulled into not recognizing the Chinese as a threat. I mean, the president went there and he came back, right. They are our most favored trading "partner". Why not drop in on them? The best thing that can come out of this is that we will now recognize China as the belligerent, lying, enemies they are. We ought to sell arms to Taiwan, but not any that would be effective against us. We ought to trade with China, but only low-tech stuff and we should call them our "tolerated" trading partner. God help them if they try to put the crew in jail. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 10:31:33 AM EDT
[#27]
I blame the Demorats, they turned their heads and said no significant spying was going on. It is simple why this is happening, they now have what we have. Our congress-rats allowed our most serious weapons plans to be stolen for the almighty dollar, now we have lost our prestiege and Super Power intimination. Now we should make the congress-rats that have destroyed our prestige pay for what they have done, by trying them for treason, and if found guilty, hang one congress-rat from each light post on Pennsylvania Ave.
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Posted: 4/5/2001 10:38:48 AM EDT
[#28]
Couple of things here...
1. I believe that the Chinese forced the plane to land on Chinese soil, either by firing or threatening to fire on them. Luzon is not much further from the site of the incident than Hainan. Also Vietnam was not far away, only 150 miles or so from the accident site to DaNang/Marble Mtn. 2. Spying is not a bad thing. It is actually good if the US and China and Russia have a good idea of each other's capabilities. It actually makes things more stable, not less stable. If Hitler had better intel he would have never invaded the USSR. GunLvr |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 11:03:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Couple of things here... Knowing what we have and having plans to what we have are two significant differences. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 11:15:16 AM EDT
[#30]
"Boy, you really are another sick puppy, not standing for freedom of speech, you commie asstard!"
No, Herr Uberschwantz, I am neither a communist nor in favor of squelching anybody's freedom of speech; including yours, although you put it to such dismally poor use. Why is it, btw, that slack-jawed mouth-breathing internet hoopies nearly always fall back on calling people who disagree with them "commies?" Since you apparently were around in the sixties, you may recall that such charmers as Spiro Agnew made generalizations about the young people then just like the one you made about Miss Magnum's generation. I guess that puts you in appropriate company. I think it was Mark Twain who said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Twain was right about so many things that, since I 1st read that to this day, whenever some flag-waver starts blah-blahing about his love of this country, I immediately distrust him. True patriotism is a quiet, steady emotion in my experience. A commitment, if you will. You're all fire, blood, and glory here on the web. Go out and start walking what you talk and then get back to me. Maybe you're the "John Connor" that The Resistance(tm) has been looking for all this time. I really don't think so, but maybe. You and Hangfire could stage a commando raid and sieze that plane back from the Chinese, since you are so worried about it, for starters. You could event take it upon yourself to summarily execute the crew for failing to kill themselves like good patriots would have done, as an example of the kind of America you stand for. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 11:27:48 AM EDT
[#31]
Should have ditched, he is an sob for not doing his duty, shoulda killed the crew in the process, chicoms will be able to read our diaries with the secret decoder ring on board, blah blah blah!
How many armchair qb's do we have out there anyways. Just shut up-that is right-shut your freakin' pie holes.You have not the foggiest clue as to what the mission was, what orders they had, what their sop's tell them to do in order to avoid compromise, etc.... How about showing a little %&!$#@# patriotism and respect for the wonderful men and women who put their collective asses on the line for your sorry asses everyday so that you can b*tch about everything under the sun that offends your delicate, quasi-patriotic sensitvities. HERE IS A FREAKING IDEA FOR ALL OF YOU THAT WOULD LIKE TO CALL IN THE PLAYS FROM THE SIDE LINES AND CRITIQUE AND CRITICIZE EVERYTHING THAT THE REAL PATRIOTS ARE DOING: 1) SHUT THE HELL UP! 2) GO GET A YELLOW RIBBON AND PUT IT UP ON THE TREES OUTSIDE YOUR HOUSE, AND YOUR NEIGHBORS HOUSE, ETC...WHEN YOU RUN OUT OF YELLOW RIBBON, GO BUY SOME MORE AND PROCEED TO PUT IT ACROSS YOUR STUPID MOUTH SO AS TO KEEP ALL THE CRAP THAT YOU ARE FULL OF FROM SPILLING OUT. 3)INSTEAD OF WRITING SOME STUPID, ANTI-PATRIOTIC POST ON THIS WEB SITE--->WRITE THE POTUS, YOUR SENATORS, YOUR CONGRESSIONAL REPS AND DEMAND IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS THE UNCONDITIONAL RELEASE OF BOTH OUR CREW AND PLANE ASAP! 4)IF YOU CAN'T BRING YOURSELF TO DO ANY OF THESE HIGHLY PATRIOTIC AND AMERICAN THINGS THAN JUST SHUT THE HELL UP AND GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE REAL AMERICANS WHO ACTUALLY GIVE A DAMN! Thank you for all your support Rant mode standby woody US ARMY, Active duty (95-99) |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 12:19:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By Norm G: I'm amazed at the crap being tossed around by the never-been-there, never-done-that, but I watched it on TV once crew. Flying big aircraft isn't always like what you see on TV. People die in ditchings. Airplanes break up in ditchings. The wings are made to fly through air, not hit water. Norm I am not a TV punk coward, and, "no shit people do die", but the question is will they die with honor? |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 12:28:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I am not a TV punk coward, and, "no shit people do die", but the question is will they die with honor? Amazing that you supposedly served for 29 years and survived with killing yourself for honor, as you apparently expected the crew of this aircraft to do. So where's [b]your[/b] sense of honor, or was the only way for you to honorably die for your country to have impaled yourself on a pen at your desk? |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 12:50:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: I am not a TV punk coward, and, "no shit people do die", but the question is will they die with honor? Amazing that you supposedly served for 29 years and survived with killing yourself for honor, as you apparently expected the crew of this aircraft to do. So where's [b]your[/b] sense of honor, or was the only way for you to honorably die for your country to have impaled yourself on a pen at your desk? No it was the letter opener, then the damn fan, then I slashed my wrists with an electric shaver, then I looked down the barrel of a 40mm and pulled the trigger to see if it was empty, then was run over by a 2.5 ton loaded with shit, then, I enhaled for Bill and that finally did it, I am now talking to you, YOU IDIOT, from the grave! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 1:15:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Before you say I don't know what I am talking about, I am sitting on Ft Jackson right now and discussed this matter with a Drill SGT in the NCO club for a pretty good while last night. I don't think you can get your info any straighter from the horses mouth. I love Military Magazine and am a subscriber, but they don't do nearly as much fact-checking as they should. Is it me? Is not Ft. Jackson in South Carolina, you claim to be in NC, what gives? Yeah, Garandman is rooted in the ground in NC and there is no way he could make it 130 miles down the road to Ft Jackson. You smoked him out, genius. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 2:01:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Before you say I don't know what I am talking about, I am sitting on Ft Jackson right now and discussed this matter with a Drill SGT in the NCO club for a pretty good while last night. I don't think you can get your info any straighter from the horses mouth. I love Military Magazine and am a subscriber, but they don't do nearly as much fact-checking as they should. Is it me? Is not Ft. Jackson in South Carolina, you claim to be in NC, what gives? I live in NC, am TDY at Ft. Jackson for a couple weeks. Surely someone with as many years service as you claim could figure that one out.... |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 2:14:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: I think it was Mark Twain who said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Twain was right about so many things that, since I 1st read that to this day, whenever some flag-waver starts blah-blahing about his love of this country, I immediately distrust him. True patriotism is a quiet, steady emotion in my experience. A commitment, if you will. Very well said. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 2:26:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: Quoted: I think it was Mark Twain who said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Twain was right about so many things that, since I 1st read that to this day, whenever some flag-waver starts blah-blahing about his love of this country, I immediately distrust him. True patriotism is a quiet, steady emotion in my experience. A commitment, if you will. Very well said. Is that like in, a commitment to tyranny? |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 2:29:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Should have ditched, he is an sob for not doing his duty, shoulda killed the crew in the process, chicoms will be able to read our diaries with the secret decoder ring on board, blah blah blah! How many armchair qb's do we have out there anyways. Just shut up-that is right-shut your freakin' pie holes.You have not the foggiest clue as to what the mission was, what orders they had, what their sop's tell them to do in order to avoid compromise, etc.... How about showing a little %&!$#@# patriotism and respect for the wonderful men and women who put their collective asses on the line for your sorry asses everyday so that you can b*tch about everything under the sun that offends your delicate, quasi-patriotic sensitvities. HERE IS A FREAKING IDEA FOR ALL OF YOU THAT WOULD LIKE TO CALL IN THE PLAYS FROM THE SIDE LINES AND CRITIQUE AND CRITICIZE EVERYTHING THAT THE REAL PATRIOTS ARE DOING: 1) SHUT THE HELL UP! 2) GO GET A YELLOW RIBBON AND PUT IT UP ON THE TREES OUTSIDE YOUR HOUSE, AND YOUR NEIGHBORS HOUSE, ETC...WHEN YOU RUN OUT OF YELLOW RIBBON, GO BUY SOME MORE AND PROCEED TO PUT IT ACROSS YOUR STUPID MOUTH SO AS TO KEEP ALL THE CRAP THAT YOU ARE FULL OF FROM SPILLING OUT. 3)INSTEAD OF WRITING SOME STUPID, ANTI-PATRIOTIC POST ON THIS WEB SITE--->WRITE THE POTUS, YOUR SENATORS, YOUR CONGRESSIONAL REPS AND DEMAND IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS THE UNCONDITIONAL RELEASE OF BOTH OUR CREW AND PLANE ASAP! 4)IF YOU CAN'T BRING YOURSELF TO DO ANY OF THESE HIGHLY PATRIOTIC AND AMERICAN THINGS THAN JUST SHUT THE HELL UP AND GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE REAL AMERICANS WHO ACTUALLY GIVE A DAMN! Thank you for all your support Rant mode standby woody US ARMY, Active duty (95-99) More whiners and wankers! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 2:33:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: More whiners and wankers! Even though it has come so late, we still appreciate the honest confession regarding HANGFIRE and yourself. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 3:42:32 PM EDT
[#41]
I have a simple question, not a flame to anyone;
Does anyone here have any idea how many US troops have died at the hands of Communist China? I just want to know, that is all. Feel free to estimate and factor in N. Korea, Vnam, and any other conflict in which CHICOM was involved. Thank you. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 4:48:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By Miss Magnum: ANDREUSAN, Thank you, a$$hole, for insulting anyone in my generation who has or would be willing to serve in the military. a$$hole is uncalled for and as it is the third word in your reply it diminishs the remainder of your post. It sets a belligerent tone that weakens any valid points you make. It would be more effective to use the A word at the end, you get your points accross in an atmosphere of cordial and thoughtful debate and then you deliver your coup d'gras. Whatever direction the military has taken i.e. time out cards, etc. has been the result of [i]the few[/i] as opposed to the many. Instead of acknowledge that the military is a direction reflection of society's views you chose to spout off about the "lack of balls" and other such derogatory generalities. Now this paragraph is illustrative of what happens when you write or speak in anger instead of relying on logic and reason. ...acknowledge that the military is a direction reflection... of society's...views... Uncontroled anger has mangled what could be a very good premise. Yes we know what you mean but it shows the careful reader/listener that emotion has the upper hand over logic and reason. I disagree with you here as the military has tried to hold the Duty Honor Country line but the Commie politicians have forced them to take people who are detremental to the force structure and weaken the ability to preform. You can't have The Few The Proud The Chosen while injecting the military with the dregs of commie social engineering. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 5:14:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Originally Posted By Miss Magnum: Let's see.. we've got ageism and now sexism illustrated by your posts. Any other ignorant statements you'd like to make? Judging from your "ism" attitude you forget your most cherished one "communism"! It is that being "RED IS BETTER THAN DEAD", is your realm! See what I mean about anger! You lost your mental compass and now your starting to marginalize the debate on the topic with more name calling I.E ...ISM...ISM. You like gulag13 are off topic! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 5:18:44 PM EDT
[#44]
[quote} ...acknowledge that the military is a direction reflection...
of society's...views... Uncontroled anger has mangled what could be a very good premise. Yes we know what you mean but it shows the careful reader/listener that emotion has the upper hand over logic and reason. I disagree with you here as the military has tried to hold the Duty Honor Country line but the Commie politicians have forced them to take people who are detremental to the force structure and weaken the ability to preform. You can't have The Few The Proud The Chosen while injecting the military with the dregs of commie social engineering. [/quote] AMEN AGAIN! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 5:34:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: More whiners and wankers! Even though it has come so late, we still appreciate the honest confession regarding HANGFIRE and yourself. HONEST CONFESSION? PLEASE, LET ME PUT MY CHEST WADERS ON! BEFORE YOU PASS JUDGEMENT ON ME FOR NOT LIKING WHAT I STATED, LOOK IN THE MIRRIOR, AND ASK YOURSELF WHY DO YOU HATE WHAT WAS SAID SO GREATLY, OR IS IT, THAT YOU HATE TRADITIONAL AMERICAN IDEALS AND VALUES? MY GUESS IS, YOU DO NOT KNOW, WHINER! |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 5:39:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Bottom line, is its done. We'll eventually get the crew back. Pilots should be court martialed. Facts will come out. Let them be tried by their peers. If, when all the facts are known, they did the right thing, acquit them, and give them a medal. If not, Leavenworth. As far as what we do with those slimy Commie bastards, well, they should be made to pay for this. Not apologized to. Nuked? Perhaps. That's a whole 'nother topic. But pay they should.
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Posted: 4/5/2001 5:42:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: "Boy, you really are another sick puppy, not standing for freedom of speech, you commie asstard!" No, Herr Uberschwantz, I am neither a communist nor in favor of squelching anybody's freedom of speech; including yours, although you put it to such dismally poor use. say you are not qualified to comment on the topic but your qualified to question if those that comment on the topic are qualified to make comment. DOES THE TERM MARGINALIZATION RING A BELL. That is right out of the Commie playbook. Attack the person, not what he says. Why is it, btw, that slack-jawed mouth-breathing internet hoopies nearly always fall back on calling people who disagree with them "commies?" Attack the person, not what he says. Since you apparently were around in the sixties, you may recall that such charmers as Spiro Agnew made generalizations about the young people then just like the one you made about Miss Magnum's generation. I guess that puts you in appropriate company. Yes he did, and the generation he condemed begat the generation in question. Even a crook like him knew what would happen if we took the the road to Sodom. I think it was Mark Twain who said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Twain was right about so many things that, since I 1st read that to this day, whenever some flag-waver starts blah-blahing about his love of this country, I immediately distrust him. True patriotism is a quiet, steady emotion in my experience. A commitment, if you will. You're all fire, blood, and glory here on the web. Go out and start walking what you talk and then get back to me. Maybe you're the "John Connor" that The Resistance(tm) has been looking for all this time. I really don't think so, but maybe. You and Hangfire could stage a commando raid and sieze that plane back from the Chinese, since you are so worried about it, for starters. You could event take it upon yourself to summarily execute the crew for failing to kill themselves like good patriots would have done, as an example of the kind of America you stand for. Man you are pissinn all over yourself with hate for two people that are exercising their 1st. ammendment rights. You have nothing to say on the topic but you throw your bile all over those that do. Are you trying to get this thread locked? Whats your game? |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 5:44:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Holy Smoke,
As a P-3 Sensor operatior with 1000 hours of flight time, I can tell you that NATOPS rules and regs are: Safety of the Crew. Period Parachuting and stringing 23 people out over 5 miles of Ocean is the last resort, Ditching is second to last. But a clean P-3 does not have a massive belly radome to really mess up your day like the EP-3. All Naval aircrew flying combat missions (which this was) must attend SERE school. Your secrets are safe. Don't know about it?, then find out. The Chinese have the same equipment as we do, albiet in a different configuration. But ESM is ESM and Laser COM intercept is the same as well. If your ass had been on that plane, would you want to be lugging dead bodies out of a sinking bird and trying to locate Life Raft #2, oh yeah, #2 wasn't launched because Sensor 3 died also. What a bunch of armchair quarterbacks. Sheesh. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 6:02:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: Quoted: I think it was Mark Twain who said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Twain was right about so many things that, since I 1st read that to this day, whenever some flag-waver starts blah-blahing about his love of this country, I immediately distrust him. True patriotism is a quiet, steady emotion in my experience. A commitment, if you will. Very well said. WELL SAID MY ASS! ...true pat-riot-ism is a quiet steady emotion in MY EXPERIENCE... Notice RIOT in patriotism. A Patriot is defined by the dictionary as one who loves his country and ZEALOUSLY supports its authority and its interests. It is not some fuzzy navel experience as alluded to by gulag13. |
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Posted: 4/5/2001 6:04:37 PM EDT
[#50]
I'll bet next time this happens (hopefully it does not) everyone from the president down will order them to parachute or ditch rather than land in China.
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