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Posted: 4/2/2001 3:49:55 PM EDT
since the government pays our troops such shit pay. could they have said fuck it & landed in china to live another day. instead of diving into the ocean with a greater chance of dying
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 5:17:25 PM EDT
I read a similar post over at Bowers Subguns.com earlier tonight. I doubt that they took any $ to land it safely instead of crashing it into the ocean. If I were in that plane, I, for one, would damn sure rather land it than crash it. The point over at subguns.com was some one said they were "traitors". I doubt that. How could 24 people agree to the same thing (treason for payoff)? IMO, they were in trouble and had to land. Now the question comes up, "Why did they not destroy it"? I don't know that either, but also in my opinion, it should have been destroyed the minute it came to a halt on the ground, if at all possilbe. You former Military guys know about letting equipment like that getting into "enemy hands". Who knows why these things have turned out this way, after all, none of us were there. But let's keep the "treason" comments down until we find more out. colt
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 5:30:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2001 5:32:38 PM EDT by LARRYG]
To suggest treason is ludicrous. I believe NY Shooters point wasn't land it and get paid, he was just commenting that since they get paid so low, they weren't willing to die in a crash, given that we technically are not at war. I really don't think that was the fact either, it is just instinct to land if you can as opposed to crashing.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 5:30:31 PM EDT
i'll admit i haven't been glued to the boob tube keeping up on this, but do we know for sure that they didn't destroy or otherwise prevent some sensitive stuff from falling into the hands of the chinese? i don't think we're giving these guys enough credit. as if we're the only ones thinking of state secrets.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 6:33:10 PM EDT
This probably a pre-arranged payoff from Bill Clinton for all of those campaign donations he received from the Chinese.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 6:36:47 PM EDT
First of all they didnt take a vote....there is one commander aboard and it was his decision and his resonsibility and that is the AC the aircraft commander...to ditch at sea was to risk the lives of 43 aboard...he saved the lives of his crew whether or not he should have scuttled the aircraft to save the "secrets" is not an issue as we are not offically at war with china...in fact we are dependent upon them as is our consume economy...the are an unbelievable number of American companies and businessmen in china at this moment many many more Europeans...China is probably our biggest trading partner...cruise through Wallmart and start picking up items from every dept. and read the label....bacially we dont manufacture anything anymore we just sell chinese stuff to each other...to expect one small group of americans to die to preserve secrets that were openly traded by the very US businesses that made that equipment and who are probably over there right now selling them even deeper military secrets is ludicrous...let the politcians settle it this is just a little shoving match between Bejing and GW just to test his mettle... the liked Clinton better cause He and algore were so pliable but the will settle into an "arangement" with GW just like they did with Nixon and Reagan and Carter they just need to know where Gw is coming from and he is about to show them hang on and enjoy the show
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 7:51:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRY G: To suggest treason is ludicrous. I believe NY Shooters point wasn't land it and get paid, he was just commenting that since they get paid so low, they weren't willing to die in a crash, given that we technically are not at war. I really don't think that was the fact either, it is just instinct to land if you can as opposed to crashing.
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yes that was my point, thanks for explaining it better
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 7:56:55 PM EDT
believe it or not, last i heard, canada was our biggest trading partner. it may have changed, but i don't think so.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 8:16:31 PM EDT
I find the suggestions of treason and 'running for the money' to be extremely offensive. As a P-3 technician for 12 years and now a Techrep for 6+ I can assure you that a paycheck - or lack thereoff - is the last thing the crew thinks off when flying. I have over 200 hours flying in P-3s and have not found a more patriotic bunch of guys and gals anywhere else in the services. To suggest that american sailors would commit treason because their pay is too low shows a total lack of understanding of the current military mindset. There has been discussion among us P-3 operators and the general consensus is that there must be much more to the story than CNN reports. EP-3 ARIES birds don't make emergency landings in foreign nations unless they're on fire and plummeting to the ground. Personally I would rather swim to Taiwan than land in China. BTW - there is no selfdestruct, no explosives, no guns on the plane. Good luck trying to set it on fire, they are designed not to burn and the JP-8 fuel doesn't light with a match. Only thing you can do is to zeroize all codes, lube up the shredder and break out the fire axe. Then learn how to order flied lice in chinese. Fritz VP-94 Techrep
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 8:25:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fritz the Cat: I find the suggestions of treason and 'running for the money' to be extremely offensive. As a P-3 technician for 12 years and now a Techrep for 6+ I can assure you that a paycheck - or lack thereoff - is the last thing the crew thinks off when flying. I have over 200 hours flying in P-3s and have not found a more patriotic bunch of guys and gals anywhere else in the services. To suggest that american sailors would commit treason because their pay is too low shows a total lack of understanding of the current military mindset. There has been discussion among us P-3 operators and the general consensus is that there must be much more to the story than CNN reports. EP-3 ARIES birds don't make emergency landings in foreign nations unless they're on fire and plummeting to the ground. Personally I would rather swim to Taiwan than land in China. BTW - there is no selfdestruct, no explosives, no guns on the plane. Good luck trying to set it on fire, they are designed not to burn and the JP-8 fuel doesn't light with a match. Only thing you can do is to zeroize all codes, lube up the shredder and break out the fire axe. Then learn how to order flied lice in chinese. Fritz VP-94 Techrep
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i don't think anyone suggests treason or running for money? what many of us think is because they don't pay our troops enough of a salary that the crew said screw the plane & action hero tactics. lets land the plane safely & live another day. aplane can be replaced, 24 lives cannot!
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 8:51:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2001 9:38:49 PM EDT by Aggie1]
What are we worried about? Anything that could have been considered top secret was probably sold off to the Chinese by the previous administration a long time ago. The guys and gals on board that plane just did what anyone would do. Survive to fight another day. My .08--Adjusted for inflation. Aggie1 edited to remove sexism
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 9:24:37 PM EDT
I admit, I know nothing of these matters, but my guess is that if the commander's his intention were to scuttle the aircraft, it would be to first land the sucker and let the crew rush off the plane and then blow it up thereby saving at least 23 people. They reported back over the radio that the Chinese rushed in and stormed the plane and my guess is that they had troops runnin' along side the sucker as it was coming to a halt, so there may have been no time. Just a thought, but again, I know nothing.
Link Posted: 4/2/2001 9:36:53 PM EDT
The conspiracy nuts are loose tonite.... READ Fritzs LAST paragraph......NO charges, made NOT to burn..... THe Captain 'probably' made a decision in the interest of his crew...real time, make a decision.... and like has been said and resiad..there WAS probably nothing the Klintons DIDNT already give the commies..... Think they can get good flied lice....???? Over....
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 3:58:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dnra: I thought we were supposed to land to pick up the new black berets.They would'nt deliver them offshore so we had to pick them-up ,you know how bad the troops NEED those hats![pissed]
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LOL!!!! They could kiss that contract goodbye. At the very least, that's what should be done.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 4:36:19 AM EDT
Fritz was right on....they needed time to break out the fire axes and fire up the shredders so rather than ditch risk killin everyone on board and the commies still getting the secrets they bought some time and went to work...risking capture torture etc..pretty brave bunch of patriots especially in lieu of how people have been typicallly abandoned...POW-MIAs
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 4:46:43 AM EDT
China has replaced Japan as our largest trade deficit partner..in other words they give us goods we give them money http://www.wired.com/news/topstories/0,1287,577,00.html
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 4:48:43 AM EDT
I believe, being an active duty service member in the US Navy, that the Chinese "ordered" our aircraft to land after the collision, believing it was intentional. Our aircraft are very resilient, and can withstand much more damage than what was done to the EP-3, as evidenced by two F/A-18s that midaired (from my squadron) and both landed with SEVERE damage. I would say that the Chinese basically told them "land or we will put you down". That is very possible, especially when you consider that the universal language of aviation is English, and we "did" bomb their embassy in Kosovo...just my opinion..
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 6:46:06 AM EDT
ARlady..you correctly stated that Canada is the # 1 US trading partner China is #4 China however just passed Japan as the #1 trade deficit nation...as stated they supply us with goods we trade them money..not good for us in the long run Major US corperations now in China many more Euros...kinda bizarre doing business with a country whose vowed intent is our destruction and providing them with the means to do so...
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 6:48:25 AM EDT
AKAR guy I think it was pretty well demonstrated the Chinese were providing those who would harm our people with intel and it was originating out of the building that got bombed..just my .02
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 6:52:08 AM EDT
9divdoc: we think of the U.S. as a country. but the rich think of it a tool to get wealthy in business with. they don't believe in that USA PRIDE, to them it's "JUST SHOW ME THE MONEY"
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 6:59:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:25:16 AM EDT
NY shooter you hit it on the head....the internationalist/globalist dont consider national sovereignty even an issue..many have homes in several different countries and have dual citizenship...so who are they loyal to...like you said money (not even the us dollar necessarily)
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