Bump.

I'm 99.9% sure I was very close to being a victim of either a street robbery or random act of racial violence today.

It freaked me out pretty badly. I will not be running without a sidearm again.

CSB and all that... I'm getting drunk and ordering one of those stupid fanny pack holsters right now.

TLDR: Don't go anywhere unarmed right now.

You aren’t wrong... I just pulled up to a gas station & there was a shady looking guy just standing out there, wearing a toboggan & not doing anything...

A toboggan in this heat & humidity... I had enough gas to just say “not today” & went home. I win 100% of fights I don’t have.

And yes, there was more suspicious vibes to him.

OST.

Hey man, can you give details? Signs you missed, tactics, etc?

This thread is about to become a lot more relevant for some folks.

Basically I was actively followed for about a mile by two 15-20 aged males in a residential area. I attempted to evade and ended up shaking them but it went on for a long time. There was no random coincidence in the interaction.

They were shit at tradecraft too...  

In 10 years of living in this neighborhood I've never had anything remotely worrisome happen. Didn't bother alerting the authorities, they could have been LDS missionaries trying to let me know about the good word.

.... or it could have been what I'm sure it was.

Heard today from an acquaintance that she had an African American family (male, female, young kid) yelling racial obscenities at her when she was out running over the weekend.

Stay frosty. The media is actively trying to fuel this type of shit.

Glad you didn’t get into altercation.
Avoided trouble is the best kind

Bump

Bump.. and a re-post:



ETA: recommend the full version:

Bump, so we can have two epic BurnedOutLEO threads on page 1.

bump

I had a street robbery attempted on me last year when I was overseas. My family on one side is Italian and many including my parents live there, so I usually go there at least once a year to visit. To save money I fly into Milan and take whatever inexpensive trenitalia tickets I can get, in this case a “freccia” or high speed train to Bologna, catching a local to our home about an hour further south. I got in early Sunday afternoon and had about 2.5 hours to kill before my train, so I decided to take a walk from the station.

Bologna is a touristy town like a lot of cities in Emiglia Romagna and Tuscany. The station is on the edge of the city but still has some nice sites nearby. By Italian standards it is not a bad neighborhood at all but as usual the gypsy types who go after tourists generally run near stations in most European cities. This being a Sunday almost all the shops were shut and the streets were fairly quiet. I stayed on main roads thinking I’d stop at the piazza with the World War II memorial and then walk back through the park.

I do not dress “American” when I go to Europe but carrying a backpack made me stand out as a traveler. The street I was walking on had porticos, so basically the storefronts are set back about 20’ from the curb and are covered by the upper floors of the buildings, with pillars roughly every 30 feet.

Generally I would not consider myself a typical “mark” for street thieves but I guess it was a slow day. I’m in the military in combat arms and am in good shape and have substantial training in judo and ground fighting. I’m not going to step in the ring with any MMA guys and I’m skinny, but I won’t flail around during a fight. Of course since I just got off a international flight I am not armed with anything more than a set of keys.

The first thing I noticed was a guy walking toward me who looks like a gypsy. If you haven’t lived or spent a lot of time in Southern Europe, I’m referring to the darker skinned guys who are usually from Romania who work in organized street gangs. Not saying every gypsy is a thief, but it sets off my radar when I see one. He has a cell phone to his ear but I get the impression that he isn’t actually talking to anyone. A minute later I check my back trail and now the same dude turned around to drop into step behind me and the phone is now in his pocket. He was deliberately being careful to match his steps to mine to mask the noise in the quiet walkway.

So immediately I’m looking for an out. I start to move towards the street but it is a 6 lane affair with quite a few vehicles, so I pick up the pace and stick by the columns. That’s when I notice the second guy coming toward me from around a corner, who cuts me off and starts trying to talk to me. He correctly guessed I speak English and said something like excuse me sir do you have a phone so I can check the bus schedule?

My usual tactic with these guys or anybody hustling me is to pretend not to speak English. I speak Spanish fluently so I acted confused and said no entiendo senor, lo siento... the guy wouldn’t let it go and started following next to the other guy who he was now clearly with. I still had physical distance at this point. The kid said “hey asshole” and started to get mouthy so I shouted “ragazzi...sparisci!!” Which basically means get lost guys in Italian.

That’s when I could hear them running up on me and realized it was turning into a robbery attempt. The younger shorter kid who had been trash talking me grabbed my bicep from behind. I turned into him and used his arm to throw him around, stepping in between his feet to put him off balance. He was not expecting this and basically tripped on his own feet and ate shit with the side of his head into a pillar. The other guy who was a taller dude maybe in his late 20s pulled something out of the pocket of his hoody. I didn’t want to stick around to find out what it was so I broke contact by basically running out into the busy street.

They did not pursue and when I turned around they were gone. I moved out of the area quickly but didn’t see them again. Did not tell the local cops because in my experience it’s more trouble than it’s  worth and they probably already know all about these knuckleheads. Reporting anything to the caribinieri is a guaranteed way to miss your next train.

I am usually the first to tell other Americans that Europe is not as bad when it comes to crime as some people make it out to be.. this is actually the first time in years living and visiting I had anything go beyond a simple “get lost” with street people/ pickpockets.

Tag...

To the top

Bump.

Share and re-share this vital information with friends and family, loved ones.

Addendum; someone chases you with a skateboard held like a weapon? Put one between his nipples.

I did just that.

Bump City

Should be pinned and with recent events it is more relevant

.
It depends on how one articulates their thought process leading to their conclusion that they were in a level of danger necessitating a deady force defense.

This is not legal advice. But I look at it like this:

Just because something isn't normally seen to be (or normally used as) a weapon doesn't mean an item under control of an aggressor isn't an enhanced threat to your safety.

Dangerous instrument:
any instrument, implement, item, article, vehicle, or other substance, -which-
under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used, -or-
threatened to be used,  -is-
readily capable of causing
death -or-
other serious physical injury

The act of carrying an item (especially in hand) while pursuing an individual might reasonably be seen as a threat to use such item as a dangerous instrument.
.

Well done.

Great post. Most people don't realize just how depraved some the people are out there - and just how fucking dangerous they they are.

I would add relative to the skateboard issue that with the many numerous examples of skateboards being used as bludgeons in Antifa type attacks this year, that anytime I see one in the someone's hands, if the situation were to be anywhere near a protest, I would consider it to be there as a weapon.  Conversely if near a skate park or if people were actually skateboarding, then I would not consider it as (likely) a weapon AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME.

I walk 6 to 7 times a week on a trail with other walkers and joggers.  Some are going my opposite direction, some the same direction.  Some people walk or run faster than me others don't.  I don't like people creeping up on me and hate looking over my shoulder all the time.  If I get bad vibes someone is stalking me I'll do a Crazy Ivan and do a 180 degree turn or pull over and pretend to tie my shoe while facing the trail.

While searching for other stuff on Amazon came across various cyclist mirrors.  Added this to the cart and waiting for delivery

https://www.amazon.com/Third-Eye-Eyeglass-Bicycle-Mirror/dp/B000BDJP66/ref=asc_df_B000BDJP66/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309768114180&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9513418398964682639&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009673&hvtargid=pla-381716175262&psc=1

One reviewer attached it to his hat, what I plan to do.  Anyone else have these.  There's special sunglasses with built in rear view mirrors but I need prescription glasses so not an option for me
Attached File

.
Direct link:
https://twitter.com/mollyfprince/status/1302256464740917248

Looks like a job for a social worker...
pic.twitter.com/XM6rBimft9

— Molly Prince \uD83C\uDF3F (@mollyfprince) September 5, 2020

.
Just some random notes:

Hard to hit a rapidly approaching threat when retreating and shouting warnings.

There comes a point where one has to stop and take a steady stance and hold.

Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.

Combined with being out of breath from running backwards and shouting... it can get difficult fast.

When the threat gets back up is a poor time to approach to render aid.

YMMV
.

Bump to keep it going.

Preach! Great post.

Since I doubt he was wearing a sled...



I assume thats a colloquial term for a jacket or hat in your AO?

A winter hat that also could be a ski mask rolled up. Tho no one pays attention to masks anymore.

Other names for knitted caps include: woolly hat (British English), wool hat (American English), sock hat, knit hat, poof ball hat, bonnet, sock cap, stocking cap, tossel cap, skullcap, ski hat, burglar beanie, watch cap (American English), snookie, sugan, or chook. In Southern American English it is sometimes called a toboggan. In Western Pennsylvania English (Pittsburghese), it is known as a tossle cap.

In Canada, it is often referred to as a toque or tuque.

In parts of the English-speaking world, this type of knitted hat is traditionally called a beanie, but in parts of Canada and the US, the word "beanie" is used to denote a different design of brimless cap which is floppy, and made up of joined panels of felt, twill, or other tightly woven cloth rather than being knitted.

A knitted cap is commonly referred to as a "watch cap" by members of the United States military, as it is the head gear worn while "standing watch" on a ship or guard post. The term "snookie cap" is also frequently used in the US military.

A knitted cap with ear flaps is often called a bobble hat (if it has a bobble/pompom on top), toboggan, or sherpa.
I assume thats a colloquial term for a jacket or hat in your AO?

Wool stocking cap or "took".

Granted it was only a movie, but I remember a scene in "Kids" were they seriously injure some random person with their skateboards.  Swinging an improvised weapon at my head is a thread of death or great bodily harm. IIRC, being out numbered is also consider "disparity of force".  As always, laws will vary by state and I am not a lawyer.

\
\\
\\\
\\\\
\\\\\
\\\\\\
\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\
|||||
|||||
|||||
|||||
|||||­­
|||||

If I had in my hand a framing hammer or a Tire Buddy and I swung it attempting to hit an individual, it would be considered Assault with a Deadly Weapon at best.  
If I was specifically targeting hitting someone in the head with aforementioned items, that would likely jump to Intent to Kill or Attempted Murder.  
Hell, if I'd screwed a hunk of metal to the end of a good, solid handle, it'd be the same charges.  And yet, a full grown man wielding a skateboard with metal "trucks" somehow gets a pass.  

Make no mistake, they know exactly what they're doing.  And until the police/courts/society come to see it in the same light, nothing is going to change.

Not a full-grown man.  A lefty rioter engaging in assault in a "lefty permissive area".  The demographics define the situation now, instead of the "blind" actions and facts.  

It's disgusting, but certainly worth keeping in mind.

I’m going to Use this as a placeholder, story coming, but keep in mind that the thugs in Italy have had more years than our thugs....

Just doing my part to push this back to the front page....

Anti-archive bump!

When this post first came out I read it. I work in a jail and I had a talk with an inmate from Houston who was here for armed robbery. I asked him questions based on what I read here. It was verbatim what OP had posted. He would never call the police if you shot at him because he didn't want that heat. He would shoot someone without a second thought about it, and in his mind it was set, GET THAT MONEY!

Anti archive post.

This thread in GD about a man assaulted at a gas station in CA fits well with this thread.

Needed more of this.

Attached File

This is an excellent video for the "Street Robberies and You" thread.

Here's my breakdown of each "warning tell" that the Victim failed to heed:

At around 0:06, perpetrator #1 enters the victims personal space.

From 0:08 to 0:10, Perpetrator #2 suddenly circles around the gas pump and enters the victims personal space.

At 0:15, Perpetrator #2 inches closer to the victim, closer into their personal space.

At 0:25, Perpetrator #2 starts panning the area.

At 0:31, Perpetrator #2 steps up and puts his foot onto the victim's vehicle's running board.

FINALLY:

At 0:36 the victim figures out something is wrong and freaks out and runs between the gas pumps away from Perp #1&2.

The perps circle around the gas pumps following the man and what follows is a series of indecisive "tests" / "preliminary" encounters as the man and one of the perpetrators "fake off" towards each other; while the other perpetrator is circling away from the main "event".

Finally, one of them punches the victim in the head.

Victim doesn't go down and at around 1:03, he hits upon using the gas handle/pump as a weapon (spray them with gasoline?)

At 1:15, while one of the perps is keeping the victim's attention; the other perpetrator runs around and enters the victim's vehicle from the passenger side seat.

This gets the victim's attention and he tries to enter his vehicle, and at 1:18; the other perpetrator comes up from behind him and cold cocks him from behind.

At 1:28; victim gets into the vehicle, but one of the perps manages to get the door open and repeatedly punches victim, while the other perp is circling around.

The punching of the victim continues well into 1:46; until the perpetrator begins to drag him out of the vehicle by one leg. It appears the victim at this point begins to submit.

At around 1:59, the second perp closes in and grabs the victim by the arm.

By 2:17, one of the pepetrators begins dragging the victim by the leg away from the vehicle, ultimately depositing him in a pile behind the vehicle at 2:20.

Perpetrator then runs towards driver's seat while his accomplice enters passenger seat.

They drive off in the vehicle around 2:29 while the victim is staggering forward.

=====================

Takeaways:

1.) The news reports say: "On November 11, 2020, at about 4:06 AM..." That was the victim's first failure. Don't be out or about in anything but a "known safe area" that late/early at night or in the morning. Bad shit always goes down between midnight and dawn.

2.) Victim failed to secure his vehicle. Always lock your vehicle and keep keys in your pocket when fueling. This prevents "sneak around and jump in" carjackings, along with petty larceny of items in your vehicle. I think he would have lasted a lot longer if his attention hadn't been diverted by the Perpetrator entering his vehicle from the passenger side, allowing the other accomplice to sneak up and cold cock him from behind.

3.) Victim was in "low readiness" far too long. There were substantial tells during the lead up to the initation of the assault; namely:

A.) People suddenly entering your personal space for no reason (especially at 4 AM in a gas station)

A1.) Especially MORE than one person entering your personal space. That warrants immediate escalation to DEFCON 1.

B.) People CONTINUING to violate your personal space for no reason (inching closer to you and putting their foot on your personal vehicle).

The final icing on the cake is one of them doing a scan of the surroundings (Why? There's nothing good that comes of that.)

The victim's response failed on several levels.

When you are faced with something like this, it is literally FIGHT OR DIE.

But to be fair, only someone who has been "blooded" will understand this.

Here's my monday morning quarterbacking:

The victim did good when he darted between the gas pumps at 0:36.

That did two things:

A.) Broke immediate close contact with the perpetrators.

B.) Proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they intended to hurt him since....why else are they circling around?

Where the victim failed was...the indecisive fake punch/lunges before the perpetrator initated violence with a fist to the victim's head.

Something like this is not your Marquis of Queensbury boxing duel in a ring with referees. When you decide to initate violence, it should be sudden and swift, with nothing held back.

The victim had a chance to win when he managed to get into the vehicle. He could have simply put the vehicle in gear and driven off, mangling one of the perpetrators with the car door slamming shut against obstacles, or simply dragging the perpetrator for a quarter mile.

He didn't, though and that's why he lost in the end.

Not many "old men" could take on two young men without a weapon.  

And had that old man produced and used a weapon, in modern America he'd just as likely be incarcerated now as not.  The best outcome he could have hoped for would have been for them to flee at the sight of the weapon, which is admittedly likely.  But being pushed to the point of using it is unlikely to have acceptable outcomes for the good guy either.

And that makes me sick.

+1.  Excellent summary.

Good blow-by-blow of what happened.  I think your last point is worth highlighting.  

As the poster above noted, in 2020 being involved in a self-defense shooting is a losing proposition, even in states with good laws.  Avoiding the issue is the key to survival.  

Along with that, realizing what was a decent place 20 years ago might be, thanks to Section 8 or other pressures, today a shit hole.

shitty video to watch but good take aways in the info.

My thoughts:
All car doors locked when you get gas, except maybe drivers so you can get in quickly (mine unlocks when I hold it with keys in the pocket but doesn't unlock all doors).
Stand between the gas pump hose and your driver's door. Adds an obstacle.
Don't fuck around and find out. When he left between the pumps he could have walked away or maybe ran into the store if it's open.
Get back in the truck and leave. 5,000 pounds of 4x4 is usually a better weapon than a handgun. WHo gives a shit if you rip the pump or whatever in the process, GTFO.

Sucks but just give up your shit if you're losing. It looks like he took a few knocks to the head, especially being slammed on the ground is not worth a used 4runner

More thoughts:

This video is PERFECT to show someone who is in perpetual condition "white" what the classic pre-assault tells are.

All of them are there, if you know where to look; hence why I've downloaded it from youtube.

This thread has immeasurably helped my awareness out in the wild every single day. I’ve likewise sent the link to several friends.

Anti-archive post.

tag