Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 6/29/2002 6:44:56 AM EDT
WILLIAMSPORT -- A man who stockpiled illegal guns and bombs and claimed to be the commander of the Pennsylvania Civilian Militia had blueprints for Penn State electrical systems, an FBI agent testified. Ronald William Hertzog, 39, was ordered held without bail after a detention hearing Wednesday before U.S. Magistrate Judge William H. Askey. FBI Agent Ross H. Cooper said investigators were trying to determine why Hertzog had blueprints of electrical systems at Penn State, where he once worked as a bus driver and computer programmer. When arrested in his minivan June 19, Hertzog also had a global positioning satellite device and a dozen topographical maps, Cooper said. One of the maps was of the Fort Indiantown Gap area, site of a National Guard training center, he said. Hertzog had a .380-caliber pistol, for which he had a permit, on him and weapons including two other handguns and four rifles were found in the minivan, Cooper said. [red] The FBI agent said two bombs were found at Hertzog's mobile home, one consisting of an 81 mm mortar shell, black powder and slugs, or mini balls, that would act as shrapnel, and the other containing buckshot and black powder. Devices that could be used to trigger bombs also were found, he said.[/red] Also found in the home and a storage shed were a belt-fed machine gun, two guns modified to fire automatically, two .22-caliber rifles, a shotgun and handguns, Cooper said. Parts for weapons, kits to modify weapons to shoot automatically, items that could be used to make bombs, at least 5,000 rounds of ammunition and 12 pounds of black powder were also found, Cooper said. Defense attorney Kyle Rude argued that Hertzog had the weapons only because he feared World War III was near and he wanted to protect his family. Cooper said Hertzog had expressed concerns that the right to possess firearms was being eroded and that U.N. peacekeeping forces were going to take over the United States and impose martial law. He said that a way to respond would be to blow up communications towers. [red] The FBI agent said while it wasn't illegal to have a distaste for the federal government and express those views on the Internet, as Hertzog was alleged to have done, there was "no logical reason" for him to have machine guns, bombs and silencers.[/red]
View Quote
Not illegal eh? Based on that last line it sure seems that that was why they were investegating him---to protect the government, not the people. Sounds to me like these "bombs" were an inert shell, and some reloading equipment. [url]http://www.centredaily.com/mld/dailytimes/3562814.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 6:50:05 AM EDT
If the government said it, it must be true.... Scott
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 9:55:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScottHewitt: If the government said it, it must be true.... Scott
View Quote
If the federal government said it, it must be true,,,,, Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 10:53:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 11:07:18 AM EDT
A "Pro-gun" administration, eh? It has been nothing but business as usual. It is becoming a real life "Minority Report" society. The Republic is lost.
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 11:26:26 AM EDT
I guess they got probable cause from his comments on the internet......
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 1:27:27 PM EDT
5,000 rounds? I guess he never heard of Ammoman or the Sportsmans's Guide.
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 1:44:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: A "Pro-gun" administration, eh? It has been nothing but business as usual. It is becoming a real life "Minority Report" society. The Republic is lost.
View Quote
Oh blah blah blah. Of course we should always ASSume that this guy is being set up and didn't have anything illegal and had in no way brought this on himself by running his mouth about the illegal guns he had and how many federal agents he would kill... Always assume that the government is wrong and the person being arrested is in the right, no matter how little we know about it...that's your philosophy, right?
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 1:54:47 PM EDT
Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law?
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 1:59:57 PM EDT
This guy is known as Falsarge on Assaultweb. I've heard these were inert bombs but I take that with a grain of salt. Not sure what the lawyer is thinking making such damaging statements about his client. Bill3508
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 2:55:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 4:27:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 6:45:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge_runner: Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law?
View Quote
And he is...according to the courts. I am not a court and I feel free to assign guilt on a personal level when common sense dictates it (eg OJ Simpson) or, more often, to not declare someone innocent until I hear all the facts.
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 7:16:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2002 7:16:57 PM EDT by Mr-T]
Well, any gun can be an "illegal machine gun" and any reloading or household supplies can be "items that could be used to make bombs". Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot, the FBI and ATF can kiss my ass.
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 7:29:46 PM EDT
Leaving aside the guns, my main interest is these maps and such. He had them for a reason. A 4th of July celebration perhaps? I'm sure the defenders of this guy can come up with a excuse why he had electrical diagrams of a former employer. My secondary interest is the 12 lbs of black powder. Was he a big time black powder shooter? The amount seems excessive, and I'm seriously into front end loaders myself. Liberty, I may be wrong, (So many loonies from AWEB are going down I'm getting them mixed up) But I believe the Probable Cause for arrest is that a couple of his militia buddies turned him in, not his rantings on the net. I think the Feds actually got one right for a change, and stopped this guy from blowing something up ala Timmy McVeigh. Some of you guys need to learn: A lot of nutcases wear the "Patriot" banner, and the Feds sometimes get people that are doing exactly what the Feds say they're doing.
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 9:33:56 PM EDT
You can make napalm with dish detergent and orange juice.... Scott
Link Posted: 6/29/2002 9:50:12 PM EDT
The gubment has been watching him since 1996 and this is all they got on him...Imagine the $$$ that has been spent on him......look at the people it has took to watch him for 5 frigging years...look out people the gubment is watching you...
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 3:23:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScottHewitt: You can make napalm with dish detergent and orange juice.... Scott
View Quote
Missing an ingrediant to make true Incindergel
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 4:31:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: geeeze... another assualt web member. I'll wait and see where this goes before passing judgement. I'm starting to think everyone on that site is a headcase. mike
View Quote
Yep
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:22:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2002 7:24:54 AM EDT by Johninaustin]
Varmitgun, I really doubt they've had round the clock eyes on him for that long. "Watching Him" in this context probably means building intel on him from other incidental operations. Stuff that, while illegal, either was minor in nature, not a federal crime, or not enough evidence to proceed with. As for the bombs, when they're full of black powder and buckshot, they're hardly "inert"
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:45:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: A "Pro-gun" administration, eh? It has been nothing but business as usual. It is becoming a real life "Minority Report" society. The Republic is lost.
View Quote
Oh blah blah blah. Of course we should always ASSume that this guy is being set up and didn't have anything illegal and had in no way brought this on himself by running his mouth about the illegal guns he had and how many federal agents he would kill... Always assume that the government is wrong and the person being arrested is in the right, no matter how little we know about it...that's your philosophy, right?
View Quote
No, RikWriter, they should have done nothing and when the jerk blows up some buildings at PSU and kills a bunch of students, the same people defending this asshole can whine that the government should have been able to stop him. You know, 'the gubmint conspiracy let this happen' or 'the gubmint wanted this to happen so they can clamp down on gun owners', etc, etc, ad nauseam. Guys, you do know that every American gun owner is not necessarily a good guy, that there are some very bad Americans out there who have no qualms about hurting innocent people in the same manner as foreign terrorists. Just maybe this guy deserved to get busted and the bust possibly averted a disaster. So, get off your freaking soap boxes and let's see how this shakes out.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:50:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spade:
Originally Posted By DScottHewitt: You can make napalm with dish detergent and orange juice.... Scott
View Quote
Missing an ingrediant to make true Incindergel
View Quote
Was a joke. In "Fight Club" they fudged the formulas for all the "terrorist" stuff.... Scott
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:51:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2002 7:53:06 AM EDT by ar10er]
Originally Posted By LARRYG: Guys, you do know that every American gun owner is not necessarily a good guy, that there are some very bad Americans out there who have no qualms about hurting innocent people in the same manner as foreign terrorists. Just maybe this guy deserved to get busted and the bust possibly averted a disaster. So, get off your freaking soap boxes and let's see how this shakes out.
View Quote
LARRYG, There are some cops that fit your description .
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:52:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2002 7:54:58 AM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By ar10er:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: A "Pro-gun" administration, eh? It has been nothing but business as usual. It is becoming a real life "Minority Report" society. The Republic is lost.
View Quote
Oh blah blah blah. Of course we should always ASSume that this guy is being set up and didn't have anything illegal and had in no way brought this on himself by running his mouth about the illegal guns he had and how many federal agents he would kill... Always assume that the government is wrong and the person being arrested is in the right, no matter how little we know about it...that's your philosophy, right?
View Quote
No, RikWriter, they should have done nothing and when the jerk blows up some buildings at PSU and kills a bunch of students, the same people defending this asshole can whine that the government should have been able to stop him. You know, 'the gubmint conspiracy let this happen' or 'the gubmint wanted this to happen so they can clamp down on gun owners', etc, etc, ad nauseam. Guys, you do know that every American gun owner is not necessarily a good guy, that there are some very bad Americans out there who have no qualms about hurting innocent people in the same manner as foreign terrorists. Just maybe this guy deserved to get busted and the bust possibly averted a disaster. So, get off your freaking soap boxes and let's see how this shakes out.
View Quote
There are some cops that fit your description LARRYG.
View Quote
Gee, why am I not surprised? You are correct. Cops are the problem. They should have never missed with this innocent, harmless man. My bad.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 8:01:18 AM EDT
LARRYG, the problem I have with most of the stories like this, is that we weren't there. My dad was a deputy for seven years, and I have seen some seedy cops in my life, so excuse me for not taking their word as gospel every time they speak. And as of late, I do not believe most of what a government official spews, no matter how low or high on the food chain he is.
Top Top