Well, being from the Citadel....

Oh, never mind....

[;)]

\\RANT ON//
This is Bullshit!  Religious endorsement or not, this country was built by Christians and other God fearing people, and if the rest of you don't like it, you can leave it!
Piss on all this "Don't want to offend anyone" bullshit.  I WANT them to be offended, maybe they will leave!  Free up more space for someone who knows that being an American citizen is a privilege.  So, do all of you godless people believe in the right to burn the US flag, too?  Just asking.  Be warned, don't think of doing so around me.  There are just some things you don't do.
\\rant off//  I feel better now.

Oh, but children ARE forced to do it!!


Children in public schools (good ones) are REQUIRED TO READ the Declaration of Independance, Gettysburg Address, Emancipation Proclamation etc. that contain words like [b]"this nation, under God", "endowed by our Creator", "through Divine Providence", "I invoke... the gracious favor of Almighty God"[/b] etc.

They are REQUIRED to learn those famous writings from our nation's founders and leaders.

They are REQUIRED to recite or write essays on those words.

They are REQUIRED to learn what a "Quaker" is, what "[b]Divine Providence[/b]" is, and what "[b]manifest destiny[/b]" was about.

They are REQUIRED to learn what "[b]natural law[/b]" is and how THAT is the foundation of our rights and freedoms.

The Gov't writes laws instructing that these words be inscribed on our National Monuments and buildings - at taxpayer expense.

These words, uttered by Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln, Madison, Henry, Adams, Alexander and all other Presidents and other major founding documents of our nation, do NOT represent an "establishment of religion", they are historical facts about the foundation and source of our basic rights and freedoms, believed by, uttered by and written by those who actually WROTE the 1st Amendment.

[red][b]The words "under God" are just two words that so clearly summarize the very principles of "natural law", "endowed by our Creator", "Divine Providence" and "manifest destiny" that drove the creation of this nation.[/b][/red]

To say that including a reference to "natural law" or "Creator" in our Pledge is tantamount to establishing a religion is utter ignorance at best, and outright dishonesty and antagonism to religious beliefs at worst.



The case in question is whether Congress has the right to insert the words "under God" in the Pledge.

The 9th Court found it unconstitutional and ordered that the Pledge have those words stricken from them.

Absurd!!

That is JUST as absurd as if the 9th Court had ordered that the Declaration of Independance and Emancipation Proclamation is unconstitutional and has to have the words [b]"endowed by our Creator"[/b] and [b]"gracious favor of Almighty God"[/b] stricken from them.

The 9th Court must also order public schools to stop teaching the Declaration of Independance, Gettysburg Address, Emancipation Proclamation and remove all historical writings of our founding fathers that contain references to [b]"God", "Divine Providence", "Almighty"[/b] and [b]"Creator"[/b] because those words can not be REQUIRED reading in schools.

[b]Isn't that right [red]ArmdLbrl????[/red]
Be consistent now!  
Don't wuss out!!
If kids can't be forced to SAY those words, then they can't be forced to READ and WRITE those words either![/b]





God help the SCOTUS when this anti-religious, historical revisionism arrives at that court.

[b]May God bless America and all of its 49 states and the liberal territory of California![/b]

[url]http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1559501898[/url]

Howabout now.

I guess that is the crux of it isn't it??.. I am a WHOLE; in and of myself; AND I AM AN AMERICAN... My culture is My Culture... I guess that is why we have individual Liberties, because I am not in their CULTURE , whatever the hell that is??  TAKE ME AS AN INDIVIDUAL NOT AS A GROUP. BECAUSE I AM ALL OF ONE MAN, AND WILL NOT LEND MY NAME TO THAT WHICH I DON'T AGREE WITH OR SUPPORT.  DON'T STICK ME IN WITH THOSE WHO ARE ABANDONING THE OLD VALUES OF AMERICA , BECAUSE I AM NOT ONE OF THEM, ALSO IF THAT MEANS THAT THE WORLD GOES AHEAD WITHOUT ME THAN THAT IS FINE TOO.

For those who wish to vote in a survey about this:

[url]http://www.msnbc.com/news/772714.asp#survey[/url]

Here Here. I'm praying for the big one to take these suckas out.

I should be laughing at this comment, but I'm not.

Can you think of a BETTER way for the Feds to get rid of ALL hard currency?

A cashless society goes WAY beyond anything I would call a crappy idea.

 shit....... The PHAROAH HAS SPOKEN, SO SPEAKETH KING RAMSES THE FIRST.....   Whenever California turns into a barbaric hell will the last person leaving please turn off the lights.. Oh I forgot they can't keep there damn power on in the first place, I guess they are all ready half-way back to the period before a Human Being had rights...


Ben

 shit....... The PHAROAH HAS SPOKEN, SO SPEAKETH KING RAMSES THE FIRST.....   Whenever California turns into a barbaric hell will the last person leaving please turn off the lights.. Oh I forgot they can't keep there damn power on in the first place.


Ben

 shit....... The PHAROAH HAS SPOKEN, SO SPEAKETH KING RAMSES THE FIRST.....   Whenever California turns into a barbaric hell will the last person leaving please turn off the lights.. Oh I forgot they can't keep there damn power on in the first place.


Ben

Last time I checked it was a state and federal holiday everywhere in the US.

Also,

The suit was brought up by Atheists. Atheists who cannot stand to hear the word "God". Screw their idea of wanting to make this country a "better place" by not having others subjected to hearing the word. They are just feeling incredibly scared that there might actually be a God, so they want to get rid of anything that keeps reminding them.

Remember, Monkeys and humans share 97% of the same DNA. But don't forget that pigs and humans share about 95%...I'm going to go wallow in the mud now.

BAN GOD...FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!


Seriously though, this stinks to high heaven. This WILL be used to destroy our founding documents. Hell the men who wrote the constitution were unconsitutional. WTFF!

If this can be stopped simply because some father (who does have a right to be an atheist) is afraid of outside influences on his child, why not homeschool her. It is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid outside influences.

lib-who supports the right to burn flags. flame broiled UN anyone?

I think having "under God" in there is just begging for trouble.  I am sure some enterprising teens are gonna start stirring the pot by changing it, if they have to say it in class.  I can't wait until one of them does a little public improvisation.

'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under [b]Allah[/b], indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under [b]Satan[/b], indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

So explain to me, if there is to be no "God" in government, Why I was asked to swear today by "Almighty and Eternal GOD" In a state circuit court as a Juror?

[-=(_)=-]

Whaddya know, someone with their thinking cap on under the tin-foil hat...

Just FYI, we no longer have the "Christmas" play or pagent in our schools anymore. It's called something else...

Those pesky Romans sure seemed to have their act together for what? 1000 years?

TRG

No Mc YOU ARE WRONG.

Because the children are required to stand up and and recite the pledge, and because the pledge connects ones individual patriotism, loyalty to the United States, to a belief in God. THAT is why this version of the pledge is unconstitutional. Remember it begins with "I peldge allegiance", in saying it you are making a individual statement of belief-which is why the court ruled in 1943 that the government could not compell students to recite it.

Being assigned to read documents containing refrences to God are not de-facto forcing you to appeal to god. Even if the assignment was to write about the meaning of the refrence to God in the text it would still not violate the cause since it is the original authors views on religion that are being studied- NOT the students.

If a teacher asked students to write about THEIR religious beleifs THAT would be wrong. At least in a public primary or secondary school.

Your examples are absurd Mcallan. The Declaration of Independance was never a LAW, nor was the Gettysberg address and the Emancipation Proclimation was superceeded by the 13th Amendment. And showing them to kids does not meet the legal definition of harm because it just shows that Mr. Jefferson and Mr. Lincoln were Christians. It doesn't make ANY demands on the student.

But if the teacher starts teaching that Mr. Jefferson and Mr. Lincoln were patriotic Americans BECAUSE they were religious and YOU should be too. Then we get into problems.

Why don't you read the decision yourself and educate yourself?
[url]http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/FE05EEE79C2A97B688256BE3007FEE32/$file/0016423.pdf?openelement[/url]

I didn't say I was culturally Autonomous... I said I didn't belong to their culture.. And ONE does make the decision to who and what they are.... ANd I don't find myself pressured into current cultural norms, I choose where I wish to be with respect to what my mind tells me is right... What stream are you swimming against?? Maybe you should identify it, and not only that, but if the stream is going the wrong direction find another stream , or in other circumstance make a different stream.

Benjamin

Mac, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!!!!  ;>)

I was just appalled when I heard the ruling. I just can't believe where our country is heading these days. Who do these judges in San Francisco think they are? I don't even watch the nightly news anymore. So sick of the one-sided liberal propaganda. Seems like every traditional channel has a liberal spin; even public television which is a joke. All of this reminds me of something that Arnold Schwarzenegger said when asked by a reporter why he was a Republican. He said that when he came over from Austria he had no inclination towards either party until he heard Democrat Hubert Humphrey of MN speaking (in a debate) words that sounded exactly like the fascist ideals he experienced in his homeland.

Yeah, you broke page three. Wtf?

Yeah! How did you do that? My Post is MIA!

Personally I don't believe in any God as envisioned by the various religions of man. I do accept the possibility that this universe had some creator, but don't think that being is even comprehensible by humans, much less requires human worship.
HOWEVER, that said...I don't have any problem with the "under God" portion of the pledge of allegiance, any more than the "In God we trust" on the money. I see it as an expression of the importance of religion to the majority of people in this country through the years.
I also think the whole thing is overblown...it will be overturned by the Supreme Court.

Can we just secede california from the rest of the country.  Then the atheist communists and queers and pot smokers and all the other weirdo nutcases can have their way.

Dang.  I posted on page 3 and nobody will ever see it.

Yes it most DEFINENTLY is overblown.

But looking at the case as posted, I am not so sure they can overturn it.

Can someone please explain who this "under God" is?  

Is he some kind of middle-level management God?  

If so, is there a Chief Operating God?  

I'm confused...

[}:D]

Do YOU?

It certainly doesnt meen fighting for a deity...

They can and will.  Write it down, you heard it here. [:D]

You read it? What point do you think is weak?

Try quoting the whole thing:

This just plain sucks. I'm so pissed off I can hardly see straight. I've never been religious, but this is digging at the roots of our country, our heritage. I know the "bad" part wasn't added until the 50's, but I grew up saying it, it's all I've ever known.

AAAARRRRGGGHHHH.....the bastards!!!!!!

In reply to Sweeps last post.

My first thought on hearing this, (well, maybe my 2nd), was gee, I wonder who's gonna get saved? Not many people know that Jane ROE (Roe vs. Wade fame), became a believer years ago. Last I heard, she was working for a Pro-Life organization in Houston. "All things work for the good of those who love G*d".

It certainly did in 1776, perhaps you should do some research on the Nation in which you live lbrl......

This is so completely wrong... This is the final result of liberal ideology, the dismantling of the last pieces of this country.

GlockShooter, I thought the same thing... ordered another 2 cases of Lake City as soon as I heard the news as sort of a 'thankyou' to the Appeals Court...


[usa]