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Posted: 6/24/2002 7:59:44 AM EDT
and almost all the peace officers I have seen do not. I think a lanyard would be great for sidearm retention. Thanks
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:03:55 AM EDT
Laynards in the military date back to the horse soldier days. You would fire your sidearms dry, drop them on the laynards, and close to sword range. Why laynards did not migrate to law enforcement, I do not know.... Scott
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:13:33 AM EDT
I am not active duty military, but I do use a pistol with a lanyard for use during WWII reenactments. The purpose is simple, so you don't loose your gun. I would have lost 20 pistols had I not been using a lanyard as the gun is always catching on something or slips out while crawling etc. I rarely keep it in its holster as it is to slow to bring the weapon to bear that way, so that is a major reason for its use. Police rarely are doing close combat in thick brush, and have holsters. They just have little use for the concept.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:19:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2002 8:23:17 AM EDT by BlammO]
A police officer I shoot with told me he witnessed someone with a lanyard-attached sidearm nearly get beaten to death by a BG who got the gun (still attached) and was swinging it at the officer's head. I don't know whether this was a law-enforcement or military situation, but I'll try to get better details and post them. [Edited because I keep screwing up my posts, dang it!]
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 8:19:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By obershutze916: Police rarely are doing close combat in thick brush, and have holsters. They just have little use for the concept.
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Maybe not in brush, but the police frequently have close quarters action. This weekend there was a story posted here about an officer shot and killed with his own gun while wrestling with a nude lunatic who took it from him. The lanyard might have made a difference.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 10:02:23 AM EDT
When my guard MP unit went active duty for law enforcement for our long tour in 96 the actives tried to make us wear lanyards. We told them if we did and got hurt because of them we would hurt the actives, if one of us got killed.... We didn't have to wear them. The cord is just too handy to grab while wrestling around. Plus, it is not long enough to get a good shooting position.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 10:10:18 AM EDT
i think the RCMP still uses them on their dress uniforms.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 10:51:05 AM EDT
I can't say why all Military use Lanyards, But imagine takeing an Oilplat, boat, heli-rappleing, ect loosing a sidearm is a reality. Even out of a level II retention holster(Safariland 6004). Phone cords were used with riggers tap for a long time now there seems to be a couple of product market to that do the same thing. Clinth As a friend says: Never Forgot Those Who Died Never Forget Who Killed Them
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 11:15:42 AM EDT
It doesn't sound good until you call it a "Tactical Retention Lanyard."
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 11:36:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2002 11:37:35 AM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By BlammO: A police officer I shoot with told me he witnessed someone with a lanyard-attached sidearm nearly get beaten to death by a BG who got the gun (still attached) and was swinging it at the officer's head. I don't know whether this was a law-enforcement or military situation, but I'll try to get better details and post them. [Edited because I keep screwing up my posts, dang it!]
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This old wives tale has been going around for generations. American cops are afraid they will be throttled with the lanyard. Even though no one can name a actual case of this happening, just third hand reports like above. The military uses them cause they do not spend any time wrestling with people on the ground and are much more concerned about loosing their weapons and dying from not being able to shoot back. Even though they still teach "hand to hand" combat and still issue bayonets the real Army attitude is that if you are close enough to the enemy for him to lay hands on your person without them being shot then something is royally fucked up, and you got a lot bigger probelms than worrying about whether the guy is going to choke you with your pistol lanyard. A lanyard would not have saved the officer killed by the naked guy because lanyards are still more than long enough for someone to get ahold of the gun and turn it around on the owner. If they weren't they would be too short for the owner to use from a normal firing positon.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 12:37:11 PM EDT
The lanyards that Marine Force Recon uses are breakaway models that will separate under a certain amount of stress. I'm pretty sure it's the [url=www.gem-tech.com/trl.html]Gemtech lanyard[/url]. This saved a Marine's life when a helicopter crashed into the Pacific Ocean off Camp Pendleton and his lanyard got caught while he egressed the sinking bird.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 12:44:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: It doesn't sound good until you call it a "Tactical Retention Lanyard."
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Hmmm, We called them "dummy cords". Maybe selling the idea is all a matter of spin. How about "Super duper black ops use your pistol as a bolo ninja strangling line"?
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 12:53:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By poikilotrm:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: It doesn't sound good until you call it a "Tactical Retention Lanyard."
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Hmmm, We called them "dummy cords". Maybe selling the idea is all a matter of spin. How about "Super duper black ops use your pistol as a bolo ninja strangling line"?
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LMAO, I think I pissed myself on that one!!
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 12:57:25 PM EDT
I've had my ARs and my 870 on boats before and I use a tactical sling on both of them because they are much more secure, basically with my guns if it is going overboard I want to go over with it a floatation device(hey, I ain't losing one of my ARs no matter what since I live in Ca.). But none of my handguns that I currently own are suitable for use with a decent lanyard and therefore I WILL NOT risk taking them on a boat simply because that additional insurance isn't there. It's the only reason I regret selling my HK USP, it was likely a pretty suitable little gun for use with a lanyard and would have made a great gun for use around water.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 12:58:26 PM EDT
I would think that beat cops don't have them since they would get caught up while hopping fences chasing BG's. Also, what if you and your partner get in a shootout, his gun becomes diabled, but he has the better shot? i think it would be a pain if you needed to get him your gun for a quick shot. You'd be fumble fing around trying to get it unhooked. This might be somewhat unlikely, but you never know. Another question: is the line ususally long enough to allow you to shoot weak-handed if something happens to your strong hand?
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 1:01:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By obershutze916: Police rarely are doing close combat in thick brush, and have holsters. They just have little use for the concept.
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Maybe not in brush, but the police frequently have close quarters action. This weekend there was a story posted here about an officer shot and killed with his own gun while wrestling with a nude lunatic who took it from him. The lanyard might have made a difference.
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The difference would have been that the the officer could not have run away as easily (not that it helped in the long run).
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 1:55:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CalGat: I would think that beat cops don't have them since they would get caught up while hopping fences chasing BG's. Also, what if you and your partner get in a shootout, his gun becomes diabled, but he has the better shot? i think it would be a pain if you needed to get him your gun for a quick shot. You'd be fumble fing around trying to get it unhooked. This might be somewhat unlikely, but you never know. Another question: is the line ususally long enough to allow you to shoot weak-handed if something happens to your strong hand?
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Unsnap the lanyards parachute clip on the belt loop and throw the gun to your partner. Nothing difficult about that. From the looks of the picture I would say that it is long enough to be used right handed. It is certainly easier to transition between weapons if you have your handgun on a lanyard and your carbine on a good sling. Hard to beat a simple drop and grab.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 3:44:19 PM EDT
Beat cops don't like lanyards, or sam browne-style cross belts, or suspenders, or anything else that provides an easy handhold (including braids and ponytails on saavy female officers)because it will get grabbed, and you will get slung around by it like a sack of frigging potatoes. I could also see it regularly getting hung up in seat belts, MDTs, radios and all of the other gear in the front of the car. I would not want to use one on patrol. As was already mentioned, the lanyard in military service began as a way for horse-mounted troops to not lose their sidearm when transitioning to saber. There is probably alot more to it than that, but that is the simple version. In my day, it was used to keep from losing the darned boat anchor pistol in the woods, and everything else that was sensitive was on a lanyard or a "dummy" cord, which was usually a strand of 550 cord (nylon parachute line). In fact, the GI-issue lanyards get used far more often, in my experience at least, to secure crypto "fill" devices (stores and loads encryption schemes into radios and 'scramblers'), NVGs, GPS units, compasses and anything else considered a "sensitive item." Lose that stuff in the woods, and you ain't leaving until it turns up, and you can and will lose stripes, pay, beer time and access to the nicer points of enlisted life. I still have a GI lanyard, but I use it to keep from losing my keys on tactical stuff. I stuff all of the excess in my front pocket with the keys. It was also handy for fishing the keys out under armor, vests, leg-drop holsters and the like.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 5:44:05 PM EDT
A buddy of mine, who was a ranger at the time, was on a training exercise in a swamp. He was carying a personaly owned, customized Glock and got taged by a simuniton round in the upper arm causing him to drop his pistol into the water. He looked for nearly six hours and never found it. He is now a BIG believer in dummy cords. By the way, the ceramic level 4 plates that most rangers were taking out of their vests during the somolia raid, he left his in. He took 2 AK round in the back, those plates may be heavy but they WORK.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 5:56:15 PM EDT
seeing how "a cop getting his gun taken away and used against him" is a big reason for the push towards 'smart guns' I think we should be suggesting the cops use lanyards. a little harder to take their gun away
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 9:39:24 PM EDT
I saw a couple (French?) service revolvers with the lanyard loop ground off the butt. When I complained about the mutilation I was told this make it legal for sale to civilians. I replied that this was the dumbest thing I've heard of, and he replied with the bit about flash suppressors and bayonet lugs.....
Link Posted: 6/25/2002 5:09:06 AM EDT
Only used a lanyard (dummy cord) during water ops/ in da swamp, etc....
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