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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 6/22/2002 10:49:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 10:56:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige: Buddy of mine (who rarely shoots) shows up with his 16" Bushmaster. Carriage, bolt assy and upper receiver is literally dripping with oil. I told him it was wayyyyyy too much and so we took it apart and cleaned it up. Shot beautiful for at least 200 rounds and then started jamming every shot.
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CAR-style AR's are infamous for jamming due to the excessive volume of gas being fed into the bolt key. The reason for this is that the gasport in the barrel is closer to the receiver than on a standard 20" barrel. One solution to the problem is to install a gas restrictor (fancy term for a very simple solution) in the gastube, which will then limit the amount of gas being fed into the bolt key. Accuracy Speaks does it as one of their standard fixes for 16-inchers.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 11:11:23 PM EDT
Without arguing with the first response, you really need to be a little clearer about what you mean by "jamming". Is it not feeding? Is it not extracting, not ejecting? The short barrel guns are far more "famous" for having the empties come off the extractor too soon, and leaving the empty hung up in the action rather than ejecting, but we really can't address the problem without more info.[:D]
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 11:23:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shamayim: Without arguing with the first response, you really need to be a little clearer about what you mean by "jamming". Is it not feeding? Is it not extracting, not ejecting? The short barrel guns are far more "famous" for having the empties come off the extractor too soon, and leaving the empty hung up in the action rather than ejecting, but we really can't address the problem without more info.[:D]
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Which is due to the problem I was describing.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 3:27:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2002 3:40:18 AM EDT by bwiese]
Hmmm... Never had a 16" AR have a problem (at least one w/upper from Colt or Bushy or J&T). Your post doesn't really give enough details -lotsa ways failures happen - failure to feed, failure to extract, failure to eject, etc. And is this a real Bushmaster or is it a parts gun with just a Bushy lower? When friends or acquaintances have AR probs it's usu due to [in no particular order]: 1. inadequate cleaning before use 2. dirty chamber 3. inadeuqate lube 4. ammo probs (esp reloads or weak Brit ammo) 5. bad mags (non USGI, or bent lips, weak spring, bad follower, backwards reinstall of spring/follower) 6. non-chrome-lined barrel or non- milspec "match" chamber 7. gas leak around the front sight/gas block or at the carrier CLEANING: ARs can shoot all day long w/o cleaning, but put 'em up for 2 mos w/o cleaning and problems can occur. Clean after range session and update lube periodically so you're always ready. Take bolt apart and clean the hell out of it. Clean bolt carrier too. Bolt+carrier interface area should be wet with CLP. Use chamber brush to scrub out the chamber!! LUBE: Inadequate lube of AR is another common problem. Is he using CLP (BreakFree) for lubricant? Also you may have jumped from the frying pan to the fire going from "too wet" with lube to too dry. I like to see a bit of shine on bolt carrier surface. Other gun oils, WD40, etc are not necessarily good for ARs. (Although I use Tetra also w/o problems). MAGS: Aftermarket commercial mags are known to cause problems (esp steel USA mags). Stick w/USGI mags in good shape. If necessary install fresh spring and new green follower. (Note: springs in mags can be installed backwards, leading to problems. Try several different known-good mags from friends. Check TM for mag assembly.) AMMO: Reloads often are problematic. Win Q3131 ammo has caused people problems. Russian varnished steel case ammo causes some folks probs (although I shoot it all day long). Brit SS109 ammo is too weak to cycle many ARs. NONMILSPEC CHAMBER/NOT CHROME LINED: Many ARs that have "match" chambers have trouble feeding military ammo. Rough chambers (dirty or lack of burnishing) in combination with tightness can cause failure to extract probs. GAS LEAK: check for crud around frontsight/gas block where gas tube enters: could be a gas leak. Also, is carrier key loose from bolt carrier? Check that it's tight and that it's been "staked" around the screws. First thing is to get into "baseline" situation and use quality ammo for testing. This means IMI, Federal Amer. Eagle, or Winchester Q3131A (*not* Q3131!). Use known good USGI magazines, and start with rifle that's been cleaned fully/properly. Follow the Army/marine tech manual debugging tree. Problems in lower shouldn't really cause these problems, but just for heck of it swap a known good bolt + carrier into this rifle and see if problem persists. Swap your complete upper onto another lower (observing legal pre- vs. post-ban issues) to see if problems stop. If swapping lowers cures problems, check/replace recoil spring, and check fire control parts for proper function (see tech manual). Check if disconnector spring is installed improperly; check for proper positions of hammer & trigger springs (sometimes ARs will kinda function for a bit with these installed in screwy fashion). If you address these issues you're sure to find the problem. Bill Wiese San Mateo, CA
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 6:32:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 7:08:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: I would suggest getting rid of it an buying a Colt. How many of the "jamming Bushmaster" thread are we gonna have to hear about. how many "jamming Colt" threads do we hear about here ? None![;D]
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One of the few things I've ever disagreed with you on legs. One more time for the record, BUSHY IS THE ULTIMATE AR CURRENTLY ON THE MARKET! Whew, now I feel better. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 7:10:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 7:14:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 7:21:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: How about just skipping the Colt vs. Bushmaster and just jump to AR vs. AK? Make mine a Bushy.
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I was thinking of going to "9mm vs 45" so we don't rehash anything. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 7:23:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 7:45:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: How about just skipping the Colt vs. Bushmaster and just jump to AR vs. AK? Make mine a Bushy.
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Agreed! Get rid of that POS and get an AK. You can fill the action with concrete and they will still function [}:D] There do seem to be alot of Bushie problems discussed here, though. More than any other make of AR it seems. I've handled plenty of them and can't really bring myself to buy one. Just built a RRA AR, though. Without a doubt DrFrige need to give us a few more details.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 8:11:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 8:23:15 AM EDT
Hey Doc- I'd be willing to guess its a lube issue. What happened when you saw it was "too wet" you cleaned it and didn't have enough lube on there afterwards for more than a few hundred rounds. After the small amount of lube that was left was worn off by the amount of rounds you fired. You then start to have problems. I'm from the school of thinking that pretty much AR's can't get "too wet." I don't mean that you should dump an entire can of CLP on it, but a liberal (AHHHH, I said the L word!!) amount is needed for proper functioning. Hope this helps.....[:D]
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 9:21:34 AM EDT
Colts don't jam??? Like hell they don't! The only one of my 3 AR's I ever had any trouble with was a Colt SP1 Carbine. After about 3000 trouble free rounds it started the "failure to eject" number. Since I had most recently been shooting a couple of thousand .22 rimfires thru it, I assumed that I had a lead buldup in the gas port area, tore the thing apart, cleaned the hell out of it and of course it still didn't work. That was 10 years ago. I didn't shoot the damn thing again until last year, when I got on this site, found out about the extractor spring number, and put in a heavy duty spring. Since then it's fine. Moral of the story is: Anybody's product can have problems---and one of the great things about this site is that you can get help with them. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 10:00:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 11:03:51 AM EDT
the biggest damn joke of the century........[:D] [b]"...high quality Russian ammo that is factory new such as Wolf or Barnaul.[/b] [:D] you are joking right ???
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 1:15:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CactusJack: the biggest damn joke of the century........[:D] [b]"...high quality Russian ammo that is factory new such as Wolf or Barnaul.[/b] [:D] you are joking right ???
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Well, I've never met an AK that didn't like Wolf...and my Oly eats it up like a rat eats cheese [:D] If they ever make 7.62x51 I'll see how the M1A likes it!
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 2:21:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 5:49:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: The reason we see so many problems reported with Bushy's is simple. There are alot more Bushys out there compared to anything else.
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Colt has been making AR15s for 40 years. There are likely [b]FAR[/b] more Colt AR15s in existence than there are Bushmasters. The reason we see so many more problems with Bushmasters is simply that they produce an inferior product. I'm sure I'll get flamed like crazy for saying that, but it's the truth. According to the BATF, in 2000 Bushmaster produced about 40,000 rifles and Colt about 30,000. So it's not like the difference in production between the two can explain the vastly higher number of reports about poorly assembled or malfunctioning Bushmasters. As far as AR15 carbines being more prone to functional problems, all 4 of my Colt carbines would beg to differ. Maybe some companies just have enough experience developing and evolving the platform to build them correctly.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 5:56:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By shotar: The reason we see so many problems reported with Bushy's is simple. There are alot more Bushys out there compared to anything else.
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Colt has been making AR15s for 40 years. There are likely [b]FAR[/b] more Colt AR15s in existence than there are Bushmasters. The reason we see so many more problems with Bushmasters is simply that they produce an inferior product. I'm sure I'll get flamed like crazy for saying that, but it's the truth. According to the BATF, in 2000 Bushmaster produced about 40,000 rifles and Colt about 30,000. So it's not like the difference in production between the two can explain the vastly higher number of reports about poorly assembled or malfunctioning Bushmasters. As far as AR15 carbines being more prone to functional problems, all 4 of my Colt carbines would beg to differ. Maybe some companies just have enough experience developing and evolving the platform to build them correctly.
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[img]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/yeees.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 6:34:31 PM EDT
My Bushys are all perfect... NA NA, NA, NA NA...[sniper]
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 7:42:13 PM EDT
And I'll bet you that half, or more of the pieces that Colt built that year were sold either to law enforcement agencies or foriegn govts.; all of whom can expect to have armorers on staff to take care of problems that might crop up. Look, I'm no "Bushie forever" person. I own one very early heavy target barrel, which does OK but has never been quite as accurate as I'd hoped, one Bushie lower which seems well built (better finished than my Colt lower; not as well finished as my Rock River), and one Bushie M4 top sight unit which hasn't been mounted yet cause the RR reciever's in the mail. It's just that the simple fact is all these people; Colt, Bushie, RR, and whoever all put their pants on the same way every morning. Some days they get it just right, and some days they screw up. I guess I understand why you Colt lovers have to make such a big deal. With all the extra money you paid for the picture of the horse on the reciever, if you didn't feel superior you'd feel cheated. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 8:33:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 5:59:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shamayim: And I'll bet you that half, or more of the pieces that Colt built that year were sold either to law enforcement agencies or foriegn govts.; all of whom can expect to have armorers on staff to take care of problems that might crop up.
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Assuming that to even be true, it would speak volumes for Colt that more people who stake their lives on their AR15s or intend to take their AR15 into harm's way choose Colt. To be honest, listening to the wild, crazy rationalizations that the off-branders come up with as to why Colt has so few problems reported is a great source of entertainment in itself.
I guess I understand why you Colt lovers have to make such a big deal. With all the extra money you paid for the picture of the horse on the reciever, if you didn't feel superior you'd feel cheated.
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Yeah, I'm sure we'd feel much better if only we'd saved a few bucks and bought an AR15 that won't fire more than 200 rounds or needs 20 clicks of windage to zero. Sounds like the definition of customer satisfaction. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 6:08:33 AM EDT
Even if it is a Colt, it's still just a Copy.
Link Posted: 6/24/2002 6:28:35 AM EDT
All our patrol rifles are Bushmaster with a very few leftover Colts from a couple of years back. We went with the Bushmaster because of quality control problems with Colt, and the sheer amount of bull you have to wade through to get any kind of support.
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