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Posted: 6/20/2002 10:39:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Hank, you sound like good people.
What's scary, is that we sound a lot alike philisophicaly, and even look similar. If I still wore my glasses instead of contacts and actually put my septum ring in instead of the retainer (which I've had for seven years now), you and I would look a lot like brothers. Kinda scary. [:D] The best to you and your fiance. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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Posted: 6/20/2002 11:02:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: A day in the life of the beautiful, high-tech and modern city of....... San Francisco. wow, all that sure does sound, uh... convenient?... thats another thing that i decided after 'becoming' a southerner- if i have my druthers, i will never live in a city with a population of more than a million (memphis has close to it, maybe more with the suburbs). in fact, if i really had my druthers, i would buy up a few hundred acres about an hour outside of memphis, maybe nashville, and build me a little 'compund' for me, the lady, and my pups... i just cant subject myself to that daily grind, man... GODBLESSTEXAS- heeheehee- you know i took my septum ring out about two years ago, but never put the retainer in to, well, retain it- my fiance had a retainer in at the time, and she swallowed hers in her sleep numerous times- didnt want to risk that! also had 2 gauge circular barbells in my ears, took those out about the same time... all a part of 'settling down' i guess... would still love to get my ears redone sometime, though... |
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Posted: 6/20/2002 11:09:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Hank now that's a little irony for ya. You were born in Kentucky done some travelin and finally settled in Tennessee, I was born in Tennessee did a little travelin myself and finally settled in Kentucky. Whatta ya know.[:D]
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Posted: 6/20/2002 11:16:45 PM EDT
[#4]
scram, I got half way through your post and knew you were talking about San Francisco. I know because that was my exact experience attending college there, although the toll was only $1 at the time and that was the mid-80's.
Listen, every major center of employment is like that. Los Angeles, Newark, Boston, you name it. Hell, the worst traffic jam of my life was trying to get to the airport in Atlanta in 1997. It's as bad as LA! Anyway, the quality of living Hank described is readily available all across the US. Just get out of the city, the yuppie burbs, and you encounter Hankville, USA. Some of the friendliest people I have met are your average middle-class Southern Californians. And if you get out of the Bay Area, up around Ft. Bragg, you'll meet some good folks as well. I think all people start out basically the same, but after years of competition, commuting, the rat race, office politics, and stress, they turn into shitheads. |
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Posted: 6/20/2002 11:31:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I think all people start out basically the same, but after years of competition, commuting, the rat race, office politics, and stress, they turn into shitheads. how painfully true... |
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Posted: 6/20/2002 11:44:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: I think all people start out basically the same, but after years of competition, commuting, the rat race, office politics, and stress, they turn into shitheads. how painfully true... No sh!t. It took me one year of commuting to the penninsula to decide never to work there again. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 1:28:24 AM EDT
[#7]
I hate to break it to you guys, but if you live north of I-10, you're a yankee. No point in arguing about it either...
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Posted: 6/21/2002 1:43:07 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: I hate to break it to you guys, but if you live north of I-10, you're a yankee. No point in arguing about it either... I'm sure the residents of Dallas will appreciate that. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 2:31:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Hey Hank....You forgot to tell em "and if you f*ck with us, we'll kick your ass". [:)]
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Posted: 6/21/2002 3:17:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: been doing some thinking lately on being a Southerner- first, here's my gig, summarized... ... and we still believe in manners. and being polite. in texas, they say 'howdy'. here in tennessee, we say 'mornin'. we greet each other, strangers included, and acknowledge other people for there worth. ever driven a truck through the country in the south? if you havent, try it sometime, and see how many people wave at you when they pass, just to say 'hello'... ... "We say Grace, We say Ma'am, If you ain't into that We don't give a damn, and a Country Boy Can Survive", Hank, Jr. Call us slack-jawwed, call us rednecks, call us hillbillies, ridge-runners or bumpkins, but you are correct that we got it dicked here in the South. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 3:38:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Being a "southerner" is a character trait NOT dependent on where you were born, or where you currently live.
Its a state of mind. I fought it for 28 years, living in New England. But now I'm home. Down home. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 4:33:24 AM EDT
[#12]
I moved from NJ to VA in 1995. Our twins were born a month before we moved.
I asked a neighbor whether or not my kids would be considered "southern", since they grew up here. His response: "Hell no! If the cat has kittens in the oven we don't call 'em biscuits." While my accent and attitude are pure Yankee a-hole, my values are more Southern Conservative than Northern Liberal. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 4:43:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I think all people start out basically the same, but after years of competition, commuting, the rat race, office politics, and stress, they turn into shitheads. Tell me about it! When I moved to Northern VA from SC, I carpooled with a guy from New York that lived in my apartment building and worked for the same company as me. I remember thinking Cripes, this guy drives like a rude A-hole. I'm embarrased to be in the car with him. After 10 years here, I look at how I now drive now and think, "God, that NY guy was a rookie at rude A-hole driving!" |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:02:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Being a Southerner is just different, that's all.
We're the only part of the country that lived under a foreign army of military occupation. We never understood how 'those people' could be so mad at us for simply wanting to walk away quietly. But they [u]were[/u] mad, and four years of a vicious internecine war, followed by 12 years of military occupation by what then amounted to 'foreigners', left a very bitter outlook in the minds of most Southerners. I remember it as a child, when my great Grandmother, the daughter of a Confederate soldier, who twice escaped Yankee capture, would sit me on her knee and with her cane as an impromptu rifle, would playfully tell me to 'Shoot the Yankees at the end of the lane!' That her two uncles died at Shiloh in view and in the company of her father, probably colored her thoughts about 'those people.' If you were a black man in those days, you could vote in elections in Louisiana (1862) long before you could in Massachusetts (1868), a fact that was not lost on the Southerners. What, praytell, were 'those people' fighting for? As one of the characters said in the recent movie from Taiwan-born director, Ang Lee, [i][b]Ride With The Devil[/b][/i], 'the Yankees will win the war.' 'What?' the others gasped. 'Yes, they will win, because they will not quit fighting until everyone thinks the way they do.' And whether the issue is gun control, taxes, same-sex marriage, political correctness, quotas, affirmative action, property rights, environmental wackoism, or whatever, 'those people' will never stop until we all think the way they do! Bet me on it! Now, who among us wouldn't join General Lee's Army of Northern Virginia outside that sleepy hamlet of Gettysburg, [u]today[/u]? Eric The(SouthernFried)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:05:51 AM EDT
[#15]
in the South, a man doesnt have so much 'friends' as he does 'brothers'
I think that pretty much sums it up. mike |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:08:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: I hate to break it to you guys, but if you live north of I-10, you're a yankee. No point in arguing about it either... I'm sure the residents of Dallas will appreciate that. Mattja, Dallas IS a northern city. Could just as easily be Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago or Philly...Fort Worth on the other hand is a Texas city like Houston and San Antone...Austin's weird but it's pure Texas. You gotta get out to the country here too. Once you've done that you're in heaven. Warm...but heaven. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:08:24 AM EDT
[#17]
[clapping and sheering WILDLY to the Huns last post]
[:D] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:18:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Thank you, [b]garandman[/b], I thought that you might gladly join the General's army on the next go-around.
The Founding Fathers died on Cemetery Ridge, in a manner of speaking. How ironic that President Lincoln should stand there a few months later to deliver his address. Eric The(SaddenedByThisPartOfUSHistory)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:28:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Thank you, [b]garandman[/b], I thought that you might gladly join the General's army on the next go-around. [>]:)] [southun draaawl]If the Fed'rals care to host that party again, Aaah(I) will attend, but in General Lee's entourage.[/southun draaawl] [}:D] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:31:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: I hate to break it to you guys, but if you live north of I-10, you're a yankee. No point in arguing about it either... Figures a Yankee wouldn't have a clue where the Mason Dixon line is. Ain't no where near I-10! [:D] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:31:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Who [u]wouldn't[/u] be a [b]Rebel[/b] in the next go around? [:D]
Eric The(AnyTakers?)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:35:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Gman ..put that goat down---(sheering?)
Yep people down here are different, you have people running around all over trying to find meaning and enlightenment.....and here in the south we could show you the everything you need with a bug zapper and a six-pack...and do ya want a life-changing experience....come down to creek and just put you feet smack dab into the cool mud...feel better? And before someone comes in here and says something about how great the north is, answer me a question...how come so many of them move down here? Brother hound out..... |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 5:51:54 AM EDT
[#23]
The awakening has started. [smoke]
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Posted: 6/21/2002 6:23:23 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Who [u]wouldn't[/u] be a [b]Rebel[/b] in the next go around? [:D] Eric The(AnyTakers?)Hun[>]:)] Eric, I was about to say, "Are you still fighting the Civil War, why can't you get over it". Until you wrote the above. I would have to agree. Hank, I just move back from Selmer. I would have to say I loved Tennessee but Selmer / Memphis is a sh-t hole. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 6:31:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: in the South, a man doesnt have so much 'friends' as he does 'brothers' I think that pretty much sums it up. mike You nailed it. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 6:37:50 AM EDT
[#26]
I still have a problem with the whole Civil War thing. Sad to say it, but the South simply wasn't in the moral right so long as it fought in part to defend the institution of slavery. State's Rights is a nice revisionist code word for slavery any way you slice it... because all the other legitimate reasons to fight (and there were in fact a great many good reasons to secede and fight), the enslavement of other human beings got wrapped up in there.
I'm a Texan and by dint of that a Southerner. I think that State's Rights are important to defend, or we are all gonna wind up homogenized to LA/NY/Chicago values (or lack thereof). But those of you who idolize and venerate those who fought for the Confederacy, how do you reconcile the reality of what the South was in part about? I'm still trying to figure it out. EDITED TO ADD: Forgive my lack of deep thought... I haven't slept in a while. I'm more curious what you guys think about this dilemma than I am wanting you to defend your Southern pride. I'm proud too, just thinking out loud. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 6:58:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: I still have a problem with the whole Civil War thing. Sad to say it, but the South simply wasn't in the moral right so long as it fought in part to defend the institution of slavery. Forget about what you learned in school. Read up on Lincoln and what he thought about the black man and what the original cause of the war was really all about. Slavery wasn't an issue until the end of the War that Lincoln used to rally northern abolitionist support. In fact, he only freed the slaves of the states that fought for the Confederacy. Believe or not, slavery was already on the decline when the war started. Sure, it would have taken alot longer for the black man to obtain his rights, but the fact is, Lincoln would have fought the war and not have freed any slaves if he could have. EDITED TO ADD: Forgive my lack of deep thought... I haven't slept in a while. I'm more curious what you guys think about this dilemma than I am wanting you to defend your Southern pride. I'm proud too, just thinking out loud. Get some sleep and turn down the volume! [:D] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:05:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: I still have a problem with the whole Civil War thing. Sad to say it, but the South simply wasn't in the moral right so long as it fought in part to defend the institution of slavery. Forget about what you learned in school. Read up on Lincoln and what he thought about the black man and what the original cause of the war was really all about. Slavery wasn't an issue until the end of the War that Lincoln used to rally northern abolitionist support. In fact, he only freed the slaves of the states that fought for the Confederacy. Believe or not, slavery was already on the decline when the war started. Sure, it would have taken alot longer for the black man to obtain his rights, but the fact is, Lincoln would have fought the war and not have freed any slaves if he could have. EDITED TO ADD: Forgive my lack of deep thought... I haven't slept in a while. I'm more curious what you guys think about this dilemma than I am wanting you to defend your Southern pride. I'm proud too, just thinking out loud. Get some sleep and turn down the volume! [:D] Heh. I understand the late introduction of slavery as a rally issue, and the decline of slavery, and the various injustices of Reconstruction. I've done that research. Hell, I'm not trying to establish moral equivalency between the Yanks and us. Ideally, we'd have gone our own way, and slavery would have died out on it's own quickly (or better have been helped along). What I'm more interested in from the Peanut Gallery is what your response is (aside from a sock in the nose) when some pointy-headed liberal brings up the issue when he sees your little Stars and Bars bumper sticker? How do you guys engage the issue in a discussion? |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:10:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: I still have a problem with the whole Civil War thing. Sad to say it, but the South simply wasn't in the moral right so long as it fought in part to defend the institution of slavery. State's Rights is a nice revisionist code word for slavery any way you slice it... because all the other legitimate reasons to fight (and there were in fact a great many good reasons to secede and fight), the enslavement of other human beings got wrapped up in there. I'm a Texan and by dint of that a Southerner. I think that State's Rights are important to defend, or we are all gonna wind up homogenized to LA/NY/Chicago values (or lack thereof). But those of you who idolize and venerate those who fought for the Confederacy, how do you reconcile the reality of what the South was in part about? I'm still trying to figure it out. EDITED TO ADD: Forgive my lack of deep thought... I haven't slept in a while. I'm more curious what you guys think about this dilemma than I am wanting you to defend your Southern pride. I'm proud too, just thinking out loud. Lord have mercy, Son, did you fall asleep in Miz Johnson's history class? Why did Lincoln wait until 1863 to tell us that this was why the War was being fought? He sure didn't campaign on [u]that[/u] promise in 1860! No more than 5% of the men who did the actual fighting for the Confederacy owned slaves! What in tarnation did those Boys fight for? The slaves that belonged to other men? Slavery has been rammed down our throats as the cause for the War, but it was not. It might not have even been State Rights as we have come to know that term. It was simply a fact that of the tariffs that were collected by the Federal government in 1860, 90% were collected in the South! Not the North, not the West, but the South! And the Southerners saw the handwriting on the wall. Now tell me with the benefit of 137 years of 20-20 hindsight, were the Southerners right to fear for their lives, liberties, properties, and their very way of life? Even to this very day they [u]should[/u] be worried! [u]All[/u] Americans should be worried, for it was not only the Southerners' hopes that died in that smoke covered wheat field in front of Cemetery Ridge that hot July afternoon. It was all our hopes. It was the birthdate of that fellow who comes around regularly now and informs us 'I'm from the federal government and I'm here to help you.' Slavery was dying out in the South, and would have died out in the South within the next 20 years, or so. Cyrus McCormick helped that along. And BTW, [b]Spearweasel[/b], if we have to take up arms again, we will agree not to try and reinstitute that 'peculiar institution' again! As if we wanted to! Will you join on on the next go-around? [:D] Eric The(SlaveryDidn'tDefineMyAncestors,ThankYou!)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:14:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Slavery was a MORAL wrong.
So is murder. So is adultery. We've then got to decide what moral wrongs we are gonna have the gov't punish, and what moral standards we're gonna have the gov't enforce. Do we want adulterers jailed?? I think not. Do we want murderers punished? Yes, we do. Is slavery reprehensible? Yes. Should all men have their freedom? Absolutely. But just because things SHOULD be true DOES NOT mean gov't should enforce them. As mentioned, slavery was on the way out. And also, slavery is NOT necessarily ALWAYS the evil white massa beating the poor negra within an inch of his life. On many occasions, black slaves chose to be with their white slave "owners" AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation. As also was said, the Emancipation Proclamation was largely a political move to destroy the Southern economy by removing the labor force from the plantations, strangling the South from being able to fund their war efforts. To illustrate, just because the Democrats want to send huge portions of MY tax $$ to black people in a political move DOES NOT mean the Democrats just really love black people. Similarly, Lincolns EP was NOT proof of his distaste for slavery. Jewish law (Old Testament) also made provisions for slavery. While I have NO desire to have a slave, or to BE a slave, it IS possible to treat a slave JUST LIKE an employee (main difference being you provide food, housing, education, etc etc rather than just a paycheck) New England mill towwns of the late 1800's and early 1900's were an example of this. SO its more complicated that "Slavery is evil, so I'll side with the North." Along with ending slavery, Lincoln killed states rights. If he had truly valued states rights, he would have found a better way to end slavery. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:16:22 AM EDT
[#31]
A couple of observations and then a comment:
Anything South of I-10 is Hispanic nowadays. Almost every Southern city (Atlanta, Dallas, Orlando, Richmond, Memphis, Houston etc)has been "yankee-fied". My comment. I was born and raised on an orange grove in Central Florida. Like ETH I am also the descended of a Confederate soldier. I lived there for 49 years before coming to Washington State for business. Growing up in Central Florida in the 50s and 60s was like living in Alabama or Mississippi as far as Southern culture goes. I hardly new a yankee until I was a teenager. We use to fly the Confederate flag and sing Dixie at the high school football games. We never locked our doors and we helped one another. It was a great laid back southern culture life with close family ties and a sense of real identity that ETH alluded to in his posts. After returning from the Army in 1970 I started to see a major change once all the yankees and mid-westerners started moving in. The crime rate soared, people became more interested in making a dollar than being honest. Everthing seemed to change for the worse. We lost all that was really important. I lived in Winter Haven through most of the 70s and 80s. The Boston Red Sox did their spring training there. Once a year all these Boston people moved into Winter Haven for a month or so. They were rude, crude and mostly a bunch of shitheads that didn't know their asses from most holes in the ground. Hated to see come, loved to see them go. They even went back to Boston and wrote articles for the Boston Globe about what a "redneck" city Winter Haven was. Their position was that we were soooo lucky to be graced with their prescience that we should get down on our knees and thank God everyday that their stupid baseball team was there. We lost a lot in Florida by giving up our land to the yankee invaders. The money we got in exchange did not come close to paying for what we really lost. An example. Last year while visiting in Florida I was driving westbound on I-4 out of Orlando. I was in the far left lane going over the speed limit. Out of nowhere a Mercedes came up behind me and started to flash its lights. Some Arab bitch in full garb was driving. She wanted me to get the hell out of her way. When I wouldn't do it she sped around me and gave me the finger. I knew then that we had lost Florida. In the old days we would have shot the bitch, nowadays I all could say is "yes mam'm". |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:17:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Well son ya see...slipping into my Jeffery Abraham Brown persona..shipped out from Trinity LA to fight in the war of Northern Aggression-
there is a lot written about why and when but actually it is the same battle that was fought in the 1770's --taxation without representation-it is ALWAYS about the money. ---hound again---I actually held in my hands the journals of civil war soldiers---had to study them to join the 14th Louisiana---and the issues that we hear today were not what they wrote down..taxes, government interference, northern elitism--especially in litrature. And actually reading some of the stories of the slaves and sharecroppers is very enlightening also. And now a personal message...for many people this southern lifestyle is something from the distant past...not for me...my grandmother was a sharecropper...when she died, her house was bulldozed so that the cotton field could be expanded. And my father picked cotton by hand.. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:24:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I hate to break it to you guys, but if you live north of I-10, you're a yankee. No point in arguing about it either... |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:25:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Don't kid yourselves. Slavery was at the foul bottom of it all. [url]http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2000-02-04/cols_ventura.html[/url]
Much as I admire and support most other tenets of the Southern cause, the issue of chattel slavery trumps all others for me. Now think about this: If the South had had the wisdom to outlaw slavery, and the other causes of the Civil War continued unabated, the South would most likely have succeeded in their separation. They screwed themselves. Ironic, no? |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:28:34 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Being a Southerner is just different, that's all. We're the only part of the country that lived under a foreign army of military occupation. We never understood how 'those people' could be so mad at us for simply wanting to walk away quietly. But they [u]were[/u] mad, and four years of a vicious internecine war, followed by 12 years of military occupation by what then amounted to 'foreigners', left a very bitter outlook in the minds of most Southerners. I remember it as a child, when my great Grandmother, the daughter of a Confederate soldier, who twice escaped Yankee capture, would sit me on her knee and with her cane as an impromptu rifle, would playfully tell me to 'Shoot the Yankees at the end of the lane!' That her two uncles died at Shiloh in view and in the company of her father, probably colored her thoughts about 'those people.' If you were a black man in those days, you could vote in elections in Louisiana (1862) long before you could in Massachusetts (1868), a fact that was not lost on the Southerners. What, praytell, were 'those people' fighting for? As one of the characters said in the recent movie from Taiwan-born director, Ang Lee, [i][b]Ride With The Devil[/b][/i], 'the Yankees will win the war.' 'What?' the others gasped. 'Yes, they will win, because they will not quit fighting until everyone thinks the way they do.' And whether the issue is gun control, taxes, same-sex marriage, political correctness, quotas, affirmative action, property rights, environmental wackoism, or whatever, 'those people' will never stop until we all think the way they do! Bet me on it! Now, who among us wouldn't join General Lee's Army of Northern Virginia outside that sleepy hamlet of Gettysburg, [u]today[/u]? Eric The(SouthernFried)Hun[>]:)] Beautiful "Hell no! If the cat has kittens in the oven we don't call 'em biscuits." LMAO |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:33:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Lord have mercy, Son, did you fall asleep in Miz Johnson's history class? Why did Lincoln wait until 1863 to tell us that this was why the War was being fought? He sure didn't campaign on [u]that[/u] promise in 1860! No more than 5% of the men who did the actual fighting for the Confederacy owned slaves! What in tarnation did those Boys fight for? The slaves that belonged to other men? Slavery has been rammed down our throats as the cause for the War, but it was not. It might not have even been State Rights as we have come to know that term. It was simply a fact that of the tariffs that were collected by the Federal government in 1860, 90% were collected in the South! Not the North, not the West, but the South! And the Southerners saw the handwriting on the wall. Now tell me with the benefit of 137 years of 20-20 hindsight, were the Southerners right to fear for their lives, liberties, properties, and their very way of life? Even to this very day they [u]should[/u] be worried! [u]All[/u] Americans should be worried, for it was not only the Southerners' hopes that died in that smoke covered wheat field in front of Cemetery Ridge that hot July afternoon. It was all our hopes. It was the birthdate of that fellow who comes around regularly now and informs us 'I'm from the federal government and I'm here to help you.' Slavery was dying out in the South, and would have died out in the South within the next 20 years, or so. Cyrus McCormick helped that along. And BTW, [b]Spearweasel[/b], if we have to take up arms again, we will agree not to try and reinstitute that 'peculiar institution' again! As if we wanted to! No need to get patronizing, [b]Mr. TheHun[/b] sir; I know I don't know, that's why I asked. Forgive my ignorance. Plainly I did sleep through Mr. Johnson's US history class... I'm afraid my study of our history is lacking, and I aim to remedy that ASAP. I knew that slavery was not actually the big issue for the guys doing the fighting, but the exact info, no I didn't know. Please consider me appropriately thumped on the head with a large metaphorical ruler. Will you join on on the next go-around? [:D] Eric The(SlaveryDidn'tDefineMyAncestors,ThankYou!)Hun[>]:)] I bought my first rifle in 1994, when I realized that the pinheads in DC felt it important that I not have one. It was a Mini-14. I've long since improved my collection, and 80% of my weapons are now officially Evil Ones that Kill Bunnies and Rainbows and Children. So yes, [b]Mr. TheHun[/b], sir. I will. At least that's what my little LiveJournal icon says. [img]http://www.spearweasel.com/images/ljmolon.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:39:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Sorry, Sir, I didn't mean to sound patronizing in the least!
But I did want to stir emotions in you that any talk of that 'late unpleasantness' would reasonably awake in the soul of a Son of the South! Whether by birth, or by choice, we can all be the children of Robert E. Lee, who was the last true American. I didn't say [u]that[/u] about Lee! Do you know who did? Eric The(NotPatronizingInTheLeast)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:40:05 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I still have a problem with the whole Civil War thing. Sad to say it, but the South simply wasn't in the moral right so long as it fought in part to defend the institution of slavery. Forget about what you learned in school. Read up on Lincoln and what he thought about the black man and what the original cause of the war was really all about. Slavery wasn't an issue until the end of the War that Lincoln used to rally northern abolitionist support. In fact, he only freed the slaves of the states that fought for the Confederacy. Believe or not, slavery was already on the decline when the war started. Sure, it would have taken alot longer for the black man to obtain his rights, but the fact is, Lincoln would have fought the war and not have freed any slaves if he could have. EDITED TO ADD: Forgive my lack of deep thought... I haven't slept in a while. I'm more curious what you guys think about this dilemma than I am wanting you to defend your Southern pride. I'm proud too, just thinking out loud. Get some sleep and turn down the volume! [:D] What I'm more interested in from the Peanut Gallery is what your response is (aside from a sock in the nose) when some pointy-headed liberal brings up the issue [red]when he sees your little Stars and Bars bumper sticker?[/red] How do you guys engage the issue in a discussion? First, I don't put them on my vehicles. Second, the way I just did above! [:D] And I'll give you credit, there were issues about whether or not new states would be slave states or not. However, there was still alot more to it than that. If I remember correctly, there was something about tarrifs or something on products going from the South to the North and vice versa. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:40:47 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Don't kid yourselves. Slavery was at the foul bottom of it all. [url]http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2000-02-04/cols_ventura.html[/url] Much as I admire and support most other tenets of the Southern cause, the issue of chattel slavery trumps all others for me. Now think about this: If the South had had the wisdom to outlaw slavery, and the other causes of the Civil War continued unabated, the South would most likely have succeeded in their separation. They screwed themselves. Ironic, no? The biggest issue was that the South could buy finished goods from England cheaper than they could from the north and could get more for their agricultural products from England than they could from up north. That's when the Federal government started imposing high tariffs on goods imported from overseas. THAT was one of the major reasons. Slavery was NOT an issue. For those that still like to harp upon slavery 137 years after the fact, how about the fact that it is still practiced in Africa by the same tribes that sold slaves to the white man in the 19th century and is also still practised in the middle east by muslims, another reason to wipe them out. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:41:14 AM EDT
[#40]
"A War About Slavery"
Read the quotes of the Southerners themselves:[url]http://www.peddie.org/princip/vs2-kfy.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:44:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Now think about this: If the South had had the wisdom to outlaw slavery, and the other causes of the Civil War continued unabated, the South would most likely have succeeded in their separation. They screwed themselves. Ironic, no? To have outlawed slavery at that time in the South would have been economic suicide in the minds of Southerner's at that time. I'm not sure, but it was probably the same reasons slavery wasn't outlawed from the outset of the founding of this country. Many of the Founding Fathers were against it. ...and how do you outlaw the other causes? BTW, sorry Hank, but I think we have hijacked your thread. Would you like any action taken against ourselves? [:D] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:48:28 AM EDT
[#42]
RAF--as politely as possible, I would like to say to you and the Damn yankee that wrote that piece--get bent. Do you happen to know about the black orphanage in OHIO that was was burned to ground with the doors nailed shut...do you want a list of the atrocities that the north performed on blacks....or are you going to say that in disregard of everything we know about history---it is always about money and power-that the northern enlightened society invaded the south to save the black man?
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:54:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Official Declarations of Seccession
Read the linked declarations, count the number and importance of the references to slavery by the States' delegates themselves, and tell me the War wasn't about Slavery. [url]http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html[/url] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 7:59:46 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Official Declarations of Seccession Read the linked declarations, count the number and importance of the references to slavery by the States' delegates themselves, and tell me the War wasn't about Slavery. [url]http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html[/url] Then call the Southerners "visionaries." Cuz Lincoln didn't figure out it was about slavery until 1863, when he gave the Emancipation Proclamation. [}:D] |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 8:02:06 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: RAF--as politely as possible, I would like to say to you and the Damn yankee that wrote that piece--get bent. Do you happen to know about the black orphanage in OHIO that was was burned to ground with the doors nailed shut...do you want a list of the atrocities that the north performed on blacks....or are you going to say that in disregard of everything we know about history---it is always about money and power-that the northern enlightened society invaded the south to save the black man? Hell, I saw more honest-to-god straight up racism in the year I was in Chicago than I ever did growing up in the benighted backwaters and fever-swamps of Texas. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 8:08:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Sam Houston, arguing against seccession:
"In the name of the constitution of Texas, which has been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. I love Texas too well to bring civil strife and bloodshed upon her." |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 8:17:17 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Sam Houston, arguing against seccession: "In the name of the constitution of Texas, which has been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. I love Texas too well to bring civil strife and bloodshed upon her." Not seeing the context of that quote, I gotta figger ole Sammy was confused, as "trampling on the state Constitution" (which obviouslt he held in high regard) by the Fed gov't was the WHOLE REASON for succession by the states. Maybe ole Sammy was a pragmatist, and realized succession would NEVER work, pitting the agricultural South against the industrial (i.e. cannon and rifle making) North. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 8:19:44 AM EDT
[#48]
During the first part of the war Lincoln was crying "Save the Union, Save the Union". After a couple of years of losing so many of his white soldiers to superior Southerner fighters he decided to get his black boys involved. So he started crying "Slavery, Slavery". Meanwhile all along it was always about transferring the wealth of the exporting South to the non-exporting North. Kinda like what the Democrats and liberals are trying to do to the working people nowadays.
My Great, Great, Great Grandfather was a non slave owning Confederate Solder who served in the Ninth Florida Regiment. His letters indicated he fought because he felt that the Yankees were a threat to his way of life. There was no indication in any of his writing that he was fighting for the right of another man to own slaves. I guess he just didn't like the fact that the Yankees wanted to dominate him and take his money through taxation. By the way, that's also how I feel nowadays. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 8:20:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: "A War About Slavery" Read the quotes of the Southerners themselves:[url]http://www.peddie.org/princip/vs2-kfy.htm[/url] Let me get this right. She says. [b]"The South could not survive in a nation without slavery, and it was clear that there would come a time when the North would no longer condone the institution."[/b] Is this to say that the South couldn't survive without it, that they should...well...do what? Seems the same today. "You can't do this anymore, but I don't have any answers for you on how to solve the problem." I disagree with this statement. I think they could have survived, it was just going to take a little longer to do away with it in the South compared to the North. Also: [b]Once the Southern States seceded, it was inevitable that President Lincoln would use any means necessary to bring them back into the Union. [red]"You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors," said Lincoln in his first inaugural addresses[/red] * to the Slave-holding states threatening to secede, [u]"'You' have no oath registered in heaven to destroy the government, while I shall have the most solemn one "to preserve, protect, and defend it."[/u] [red]He adds that he will fight to keep the union because the Southern States would be violating the constitution by seceding.[/red] "One Party to a contract may violate it--break it , so to speak--but does it not require all to lawfully rescind it?... No State upon its own mere motion can lawfully get out of the Union, that 'resolves' and 'ordinances' to that effect are legally void ." Seems to me it was a difference of opinion as to whether a state could secede from the Union or not. And finally. it wasn't a civil war. Civil war is where teo fractions are at battle for total control of the government. The South didn't want to control the North. They just didn't want anything to do with it. I think if we look deeper into this, we'll see that the South seceding from the Union was a threat to the North due to the fact the South had goods the North wanted, but which they could get a better price for overseas. And the products that the North had that the South needed could also be purchased for less overseas. Secession of the South would have been economic collapse for the North. My personal opinion is that all would have been fine if the Northern politicians had kept their hands out of economics between the two, and hadn't tried to impose their will on the South. |
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Posted: 6/21/2002 8:29:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Sam Houston, arguing against secession: "In the name of the constitution of Texas, which has been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. I love Texas too well to bring civil strife and bloodshed upon her." Not seeing the context of that quote, I gotta figger ole Sammy was confused, as "trampling on the state Constitution" (which obviouslt he held in high regard) by the Fed gov't was the WHOLE REASON for succession by the states. Maybe ole Sammy was a pragmatist, and realized succession would NEVER work, pitting the agricultural South against the industrial (i.e. cannon and rifle making) North. No, Garandman, Houston was saying that the Texans agitating for secession were proceeding illegally, and that he would have no part of it. And yes, he was pragmatic, predicting a long, bitter war, and Southern defeat. |
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