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Posted: 6/19/2002 9:37:01 AM EDT
Goatboy has agreed to let us have our own forum!!! All hail the Goat!!!!!!! ANywho, we need to decide on rules. I propose the following, at least for our first match (my biggest goal is to keep it simple. We can formalize and improve later) 1. Scores are reported on the honor system (posting pics of your targets would help, but even that could be faked with a .22 caliber pencil [:D] ) 2. Distance - 25 yards. 3. Targets (I have some I can provide you, in MS Word format) 2.375" aiming black as standard for 25 yard targets. Offhand will be 6" OAD, and prone will be 2.75" OAD. 4. Rifle / pistol - for now, I'd suggest we keep it to 22 rimfire, as the prone targets are really designed for 22 rimfire. We can add more classes later (handgun, HP, etc) 5. Course of fire: 20 rounds - 10 prone (2 per bullseye. target has 5 bulls) 10 offhand (all ten on 1 single bull. (If you can one hole at 25 yards offhand, you DESERVE to be questioned on your score [}:D] 6. Timing: 30 minutes. Once shooting for record has begun, all remaining shots must be counted. No picking and choosing your 20 best. All shooting for record must be done within the 30 minute limit. 7. Scoring: standard NRA scoring rules. I can elaborate on that later. ANything else????
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:05:24 AM EDT
Also, do we allow the use of shooting coats, gloves, spotting scopes?? This adds significant, and significant advantage to the shooter. Or do we have a sportsmen class, without all the paraphenalia, and a competition class, with coats gloves etc etc???
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:13:01 AM EDT
G-man, why don't you post the target files in your AR15.com member's gallery?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:16:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: G-man, why don't you post the target files in your AR15.com member's gallery?
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Cuz I'm internet illiterate. [BD] How? Where? Who?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:18:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Or do we have a sportsmen class, without all the paraphenalia, and a competition class, with coats gloves etc etc???
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I vote for this idea. I don't like the idea of prohibiting something but I wouldn't want this to turn into an equipment and gear race either. Recognizing different classes should let everyone play. My humble 2 pennies.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:30:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Renamed: G-man, why don't you post the target files in your AR15.com member's gallery?
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Cuz I'm internet illiterate. [BD] How? Where? Who?
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Ask Lordtrader about his "posts without posting". [:D]
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:35:20 AM EDT
Sounds cool to me. I'm in!
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:39:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 10:50:22 AM EDT by slacko]
categories/classes? I think you should allow 50 yds for the rifles. Suggestions: 25 yd. handgun - benchrest/offhand 25 yd. rifle offhand 50 yd. rifle benchrest that would make 4 classes to cater to many that frequent here...
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:47:37 AM EDT
I think you guys are starting to make this waaaaay too complicated. (Optics versus irons? Adults versus juniors? We could easily split this into 16+ different classes.) Make it any gun, any stance at 25 yards and let's see what happens. If there's a reason to start making up classes, we can set up them up for the next match.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:50:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ronin47:
Originally Posted By garandman: Or do we have a sportsmen class, without all the paraphenalia, and a competition class, with coats gloves etc etc???
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I vote for this idea. I don't like the idea of prohibiting something but I wouldn't want this to turn into an equipment and gear race either. Recognizing different classes should let everyone play. My humble 2 pennies.
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I think it should be ONLY sportsman. Hey, we are just trying to have fun!! Extra equipment adds to much complexity. KISS is the key word for this. Keep It Simple Stupid! Where less is better. Otherwise you get people bickering about this and that, what is fair, what isn't. I just want to have good time. Show off my good shots, and my bloopers and laugh. BTW, what is "OAD"?
Offhand will be 6" OAD, and prone will be 2.75" OAD
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Link Posted: 6/19/2002 10:52:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Renamed: I think you guys are starting to make this waaaaay too complicated. (Optics versus irons? Adults versus juniors? We could easily split this into 16+ different classes.) Make it any gun, any stance at 25 yards and let's see what happens. If there's a reason to start making up classes, we can set up them up for the next match.
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I agree with this.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 11:16:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Guzzler BTW, what is "OAD"?
Offhand will be 6" OAD, and prone will be 2.75" OAD
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Just a guess, but I would say overall diameter.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 11:28:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wasted-life:
Originally Posted By Guzzler BTW, what is "OAD"?
Offhand will be 6" OAD, and prone will be 2.75" OAD
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Just a guess, but I would say overall diameter.
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Wasted is on to me - overall diameter. And guzzler is right - they key word is... [size=6]SIMPLE [/size=6] At least for now. Complexity will kill this BEFORE it ever gets going. And once the forum is alive, ANYONE can organize a match with their own rules.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 11:41:08 AM EDT
Wow, its on huh? I suggested this a few times months ago and no one was interested or even replied to the post [:(]. Good job Garandman. Im in. Hell, I dont even have to go shooting, i have 25yrd targets saved from the last three months [%|]. Is that cheating? [:)]
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 11:49:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 11:50:19 AM EDT
I think just keep it simple so it is easy to understand and avoid limitations on firearms so more people can compete with out a gear or gun race starting (open class for all) I think if you looked at some of the compitions listed on ispc or simialar site that could be a start. handguns could be a 60 round course of fire using a nra silouette target or what ever 8 1/2 X 11 paper: 3yds 10rnds 5yds 10rnds 7yds 10rnds 10yds10rnds 15yds10rnds 25yds10rnds I think it should be broken down only as far as rifle or handgun any one else have any good ideas???????????
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:06:59 PM EDT
Are we wanting to mail all targets to a central location for scoring, or just score it yourself on the honor system (and post a pic here if yer real proud o' yerself!!!![:D] ) ?????
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:12:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 12:14:42 PM EDT by Stormbringer]
Well since this is not AW I am sure we can use the honour system ( LOL ). I agree that if you can post your pic it would be a big boost to the game. However since we are all adults trust has to play a part. Since this is an electronic media I am loath to use snail mail to send targets in to a central store... However....I think that the Top 3 should be posted. Even if you do not have a scanner etc you can go to kinkos etc and they can scan it for you.... Just my 0.02 but since I am Canadian its only worth0.01333 edited to add....20 shots 10 prone and 10 offhand sounds good to me. Should we say that you can enter your best of three attempts?? Otherwise some may shoot a few bricks trying for a score!! LOL
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:13:20 PM EDT
If I may humbly suggest, as a semi-disinterested observer and long-time (35 years) competitive shooter..... The rules are already written. Why don't you just pick, say, the NRA four-position smallbore rules, covering absolutely everything...legal positions, equipment...everything, and go with that. Those same identical rules are available to everyone from the NRA competitions division for, like, $3. Then everyone's on the same page and nothing slips through the cracks. Just a thought...why re-invent the wheel?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:13:51 PM EDT
Shadowblade - Once the forum is activated, ANYONE could announce a match, with whatever rules they want, and administer it any way they want. That way, we could have several matches running concurrently. But to keep it simple..... My suggestion would be to have ONLY two classes - rifle, and handgun. All "sportsmen" level, so we don't become overly techy, expensive, or lose the "funness" of all this. Separate rules and courses of fire would exist for each. Rifle Matches would occur roughly every other week or month, falling on an off week or month from pistol. That way, people could participate in both.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:22:07 PM EDT
Celt- Well, maybe one day we'll graduate to that level. But for right now, I don't want to get into the "degree angle which your forward arm is off the deck in smallbore rifle prone position" and the like. But I will order the booklet from teh NRA. Good suggestion.
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:26:20 PM EDT
Let's just crawl before we walk. I agree, simple as possible is the way to go for frist time out of the chute (or shoot). I think score your own is fine for now. It will evolve on it's own anyway. Ross
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 12:47:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2002 12:52:00 PM EDT by Green_Canoe]
Sounds like a great idea. My thoughts: Simple is better. The NRA rules are good, but I think a little beyond having a little fun with friends. Definitely have two categories handgun and rifle. You could split rifle into scopes and irons to let everyone compete on an even plane. (Assume everyone shooting handgun will use irons.) Three to six targets per match (30 to 60 rounds). NRA targets are good but you would want to be certain everyone was on the same page, so nobody was DQ'd for using the wrong target. A downloadable target would eliminate any confusion. Shooting iron sights at 25 yards I'd prefer to see a minimum of a 3" black dot and I wouldn't be offended by something as large as 6" providing there where multiple scoring rings in the black. Keep the course of fire simple. 25 yards for pistol, 25 or 50 for rifle. Some shooters ranges may not be set up for a variety of distances, but every range I've been to has 25 yards available and almost all have had 50 yards available. Use one position for each match to keep the course of fire simple so you don't have to refer to the rules every ten shots to see what you are supposed to do next. Stay away from bench shooting, that tests the equipment not the shooter. (For the most part) When you eliminate the bench, my $300 Ruger MK II can shoot as well as the next guys $1000 Pardini target pistol. From the bench, I'd need to buy the Pardini to be competitive. Since all we are shooting for is bragging rights, honor will be sufficient for scoring. But, I would be very interested in seeing the winning targets to get a visual goal for the next match. Without a person's honor these matches will mean nothing. Stick with the 22LR initially, everyone has one or more and can afford to shoot them. Love the idea, I'm looking forward to playing with you guys/gals. Kent
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 1:19:05 PM EDT
I'd go for 2 classes, rifle and pistol, as already suggested. I also like the keep it simple philosophy. I'd say let shooters use any caliber / action type they want as long as its rifle or pistol. I though about suggesting iron sights only but some folks (old farts like me) don't see irons so well as the younguns so what the heck - no restriction on sights?
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 1:23:39 PM EDT
If we allow both scoped and iron sights, we'll have to set up different classes for them. Which isn't really a problem. Maybe we could throw red dot sights in with the iron sights and magnification sights / scopes in another class????
Link Posted: 6/19/2002 1:31:23 PM EDT
Don't some red dots have some slight magnification? I don't know because my rifles are either irons or scopes...
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 4:25:05 AM EDT
btt to give "first shift" a crack at it.
Link Posted: 6/20/2002 6:43:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ECS: Don't some red dots have some slight magnification?
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Some do (e.g. the new Leupold is a 1-3x) but most red dots, in my experience, are 1x.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:29:28 AM EDT
So when do we start?? Is the forum created yet? I gots an itchy triger finger.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:36:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 11:47:24 AM EDT
Alls I need to know is when to mail/post results.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 12:01:55 PM EDT
To all - I think it best just to wait till the forum is up and running. And the Goatmeister is working furiously in that regard.
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 7:21:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2002 7:31:39 PM EDT by Only_Hits_Count]
I think the idea of different, simultaneous matches is cool. I'd like to try a .22 handgun competition, and maybe something for Ruger 10/22's- factory or race guns. I don't necessarily want to do benchrest, but I might want to do it once or twice for sh*ts and grins. (Hey u pervs!! the word 'clit' is in the spell check dictionary!) [And who the fvck can't spell clit?]
Link Posted: 6/21/2002 7:48:58 PM EDT
Sounds great I'm in. Stormbringer, LMAO that was good
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