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Posted: 6/13/2002 6:45:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Good luck on your mission. I try to do the same thing but I'm not always sucessful.
Try buying a television, DVD player, VCR or computer hard drive. I drive a truck with a Japanese badge on the front that was built in California and watch a television with an American name (GE) made in Mexico. [whacko] America is still the most productive country but there's just not enough profit in lots of stuff to even bother to make it here when there's more profit in other stuff. Little plastic toys are worthless to make here when it's cheaper to fly them half-way around the world to the American market and still have enough margin to mark them up double and sell them for $0.99. Why waste valuable labor making "rubber dog shit" when you can use that same labor to make something more profitable. American labor has better skills and better pay then those in other countries. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 6:48:55 AM EDT
[#2]
Kudos on the sentiment, but I don't think you're off the hook.
How many 'domestic' cars are 100% American. I don't have percentages at hand, but I know the big three use foreign parts in varying degrees. Likewise, is BMW made in Tennessee (or wherever they put the plant) German or American? Televisions: Zenith was the last American made television and I don't even know if they are still made here. Same deal on alot of electronics. Anyway, I could go on and on, but you get the idea. -legrue |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 7:06:23 AM EDT
[#3]
AR's- You may find that the OEM GM component IS made in Mexico, if not Canada, France, Israel,Japan, England, or a number of other countries.. Honestly, I'd be amazed if it were made in the U.S.
No, I don't like seeing industry/manufacturing jobs go overseas, but that is what the stockholders, and for the most part, the customers demand. Low prices demand a low overhead.. Other than using the cheapest of materials, the only option is to cut the labor costs.. This means overseas labor. There is a long term impct to this.. The exodus of base manufacturing/industrial jobs means many hae only service oriented employment as an option..Where one could make a living even in a small industrial shop, this is not possible in most service industry jobs.. "As ye sow,so shall ye reap".. Basically, it seems that "we" want it cheap, but made here.. Just won't happen. Meplat- |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 7:20:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Good luck. While I am trying to do the same (ie. buying either American or German, and positively avoiding ChiCom), some things can't be had American-made:
Doc Martens' shoes, computer parts, shirts, socks etc. ... As I developed a rather intimate relationship with my GTi (fixing her up), I discovered parts made in the US, Mexico, Canada, Spain, West- and East Germany. The whole shebang was then assembled in the VW factory in Westmoreland, Pennsylvania in. Now where was that car "made"? |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 7:35:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Good luck. While I am trying to do the same (ie. buying either American or German, and positively avoiding ChiCom), some things can't be had American-made: Doc Martens' shoes, computer parts, shirts, socks etc. ... As I developed a rather intimate relationship with my GTi (fixing her up), I discovered parts made in the US, Mexico, Canada, Spain, West- and East Germany. The whole shebang was then assembled in the VW factory in Westmoreland, Pennsylvania in. Now where was that car "made"? That's true, plus ALL electronic components in cars today are foriegn. Not only that, but steel is now being imported as are a staggering amount of other raw materials. Even if it's stamped "made in the USA" where do you draw the line? Take a browse through your house and you will be surprised by what you have in there that is foriegn made. Start by flipping over your keyboard. Like it or not this is now a gobal economy and buying American is just no longer possible. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 7:43:20 AM EDT
[#6]
HAHAHA ah HAHAHA The NWO won't let you take back America.
I understand, but to many Americans these days earn their paychecks working for foreign companies located and doing business in Amererka, and those American peoples unlike you like things the way they are. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 7:43:54 AM EDT
[#7]
i always try to buy items that made in sweat shops.
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Posted: 6/13/2002 7:49:09 AM EDT
[#8]
I read somewhere that the most American made car, is the Toyota Camry is the most American Made Car. Assembled in the US with something like 92% American made parts.
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Posted: 6/13/2002 7:57:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Try this.
I just purchased a replacement 100 foot cable and hook for my WARN winch (which is made in the USA) and both the cable and hook are made in the USA. I try where and when I can. http://madeinusa.org/ |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 8:20:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Try this. I just purchased a replacement 100 foot cable and hook for my WARN winch (which is made in the USA) and both the cable and hook are made in the USA. I try where and when I can. [url]www.madeinusa.org/[/url] |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 8:28:11 AM EDT
[#11]
Here's something interesting.
Own a DVD player? The DSP chip in it was probably made in Tucson at the Texas Instruments (formerly Burr-Brown) plant. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 9:59:29 AM EDT
[#12]
Something like 10 years ago japan renamed a business district USA.
Everything made there was stamped ?Made in USA?. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 10:17:09 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I will no longer buy items made in China, Taiwan, Mexico or any other country that has politicial prisoners, unfair trade etc. Ok, I can understand why you'd hate China, I can understand why you'd hate Mexico -- but what in the world do you have against Taiwan?? That's sorta like hating New Zealand. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 10:25:25 AM EDT
[#14]
I agree with the sentiment, but good luck. There is a nice big Ford plant in Canada. The suspension and wiring on a Harley Davidson is foreign. Honda Gold Wing motorcycles are mostly manufactured here and completely assembled here.
I agree on China though, pisses me off that every little plastic doohicky means giving those dirty slavers money-pisses me off. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 11:31:47 AM EDT
[#15]
I try to buy American, it can be tough though.
Needed a good soldering iron...Sears had the US made Wellers, Lowes had the xxx made ones...I paid $15 more for the US and told the Lowes manager why I didn't buy it from his store. Tried to find cotton PJ's for my father-in-law for fathers day (he's old and that's what he wanted). I gave up, there aren't any US made ones...anywhere. Was I disgusted. I did find a robe though, so that's something. I give the French credit. You go into one of their stores, just about anything you need is there and it's made in France. We have way too many wetbacks, imports and foreign scum in this country that wouldn't buy American if they could. Personally, don't give a damn about any sweat shop in a foreign country. To them, maybe it's a good job, not for us, but it's not my business who works where or for what money. [removed unneeded racial slur - Paul] |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 3:11:01 PM EDT
[#16]
That's nice, ARs4EVER. I'll continue to purchase whatever gives me the best value, no matter where it is made. In the long run this is best for me and everyone else in the world.
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Posted: 6/13/2002 3:20:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: That's nice, ARs4EVER. I'll continue to purchase whatever gives me the best value, no matter where it is made. In the long run this is best for me and everyone else in the world. We must enact the anti dog eat dog legislation to give everyone a fair chance! -James (markl32) Taggert. [;)] |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 3:29:10 PM EDT
[#18]
ARs4EVER, My 02 suburban was made in Mexico... If it was made here it would probably cost twice as much. While I share your patriotic sentiment, technology has changed the global economy forever. Economic isolationism would put America at a grave disadvantage in the world economy. I stay away from products made in China simply because they are usually sub quality. However if it will make you feel better I'll take any Norinco products you have off your hands... [:D]
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Posted: 6/13/2002 3:35:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Most of your food is grown is Mexico, the rest come from various 3rd world producers.
Guess what they all use for fertilizer???? |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 4:08:13 PM EDT
[#20]
May as well stop using all that cheap foreign ammo too. No more FNs AKs etc. etc.etc.
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Posted: 6/13/2002 4:56:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Buying %100 American would be nearly impossible. Pretty much everything has at least foreign made parts. Some Fords are mad in Japan, Hondas & BMW's are made here. Having "made in Japan" or "made in America" doesn't mean what it used to. Personally, I have noe qualms buying foreign products. As long as it's high quality, it really doesn't matter where it comes from. Due in large part to American investment, the communist system in China isn't nearly as strong as it once was.
If your looking for someone to blame, it should be the American companies that have decided it is cheaper to manufacture goods overseas. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 5:16:52 PM EDT
[#22]
I have a Daewoo AR110C. I like it and it still works(bullets fly out of it just as fast as I can squeeze the trigger)
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Posted: 6/13/2002 5:24:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: America is still the most productive country but there's just not enough profit in lots of stuff to even bother to make it here when there's more profit in other stuff. Little plastic toys are worthless to make here when it's cheaper to fly them half-way around the world to the American market and still have enough margin to mark them up double and sell them for $0.99. Why waste valuable labor making "rubber dog shit" when you can use that same labor to make something more profitable. Because at least you're making something, and at the same time, the fact you're producing goods contributes to the overall economy through the purchase of raw materials, finished parts, land, insurance, etc. I don't buy the line that we should focus solely on more advanced production simply because I don't believe there's enough to go around. And what about the millions of unskilled immigrants flooding our shores who historically were the people making those rubber turds? As those jobs are elimiated, the unskilled are forced to take service jobs or go on public welfare. Production is always a win-win situation. I don't care if you're making cruise missiles or rubber washers. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 5:42:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: AR's- You may find that the OEM GM component IS made in Mexico, if not Canada, France, Israel,Japan, England, or a number of other countries.. Honestly, I'd be amazed if it were made in the U.S. No, I don't like seeing industry/manufacturing jobs go overseas, but that is what the stockholders, and for the most part, the customers demand. Low prices demand a low overhead.. Other than using the cheapest of materials, the only option is to cut the labor costs.. This means overseas labor. There is a long term impct to this.. The exodus of base manufacturing/industrial jobs means many hae only service oriented employment as an option..Where one could make a living even in a small industrial shop, this is not possible in most service industry jobs.. "As ye sow,so shall ye reap".. Basically, it seems that "we" want it cheap, but made here.. Just won't happen. Meplat- As long as I have been in the Auto biz I will never get over this BS. Yes GM has S-10S and small cars PUT TOGTHER in Mex anmd Can. and yes there are parts made all over(to GM's specs amd checked out back here) but this is only done with parts that will come off. (pads,lines,ect) NO! blacks or tranies or anything that we do better than anybody is made outside the US. Most people that buy in to the bull that most parts are made in Japland or some other place don't work on cars or buy there parts at some cheap place like AutoZone. So if you look under your hood you may see "made in Japan" on the fan cover but thats it. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 6:03:08 PM EDT
[#25]
I agree with this guy, I much prefer my current line of work to a manufacturing job. Apparently, a lot of other Americans do as well.
There are wise people who talk ever so knowingly and complacently about "the working classes," and satisfy themselves that a day's hard intellectual work is very much harder than a day's hard manual toil, and is righteously entitled to much bigger pay. Why, they really think that, you know, because they know all about the one, but haven't tried the other. But I know all about both; and so far as I am concerned, there isn't money enough in the universe to hire me to swing a pickaxe thirty days, but I will do the hardest kind of intellectual work for just as near nothing as you can cipher it down -- and I will be satisfied, too. Intellectual "work" is misnamed; it is a pleasure, a dissipation, and is its own highest reward. The poorest paid architect, engineer, general, author, sculptor, painter, lecturer, advocate, legislator, actor, preacher, singer is constructively in heaven when he is at work; and as for the musician with the fiddle-bow in his hand who sits in the midst of a great orchestra with the ebbing and flowing tides of divine sound washing over him -- why, certainly, he is at work, if you wish to call it that, but lord, it's a sarcasm just the same. The law of work does seem utterly unfair -- but there it is, and nothing can change it: the higher the pay in enjoyment the worker gets out of it, the higher shall be his pay in cash, also. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 6:05:56 PM EDT
[#26]
All sneakers are made overseas.
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Posted: 6/13/2002 6:10:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Take America back???
Well my people have been saying this for years. But they got stuck on a reservation for thinking that way. Better be careful. [;)] |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 6:16:02 PM EDT
[#28]
We used to let them come here and pay them squat for their labor- Now we keep them out and pay them squat for their labor!
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Posted: 6/13/2002 6:17:02 PM EDT
[#29]
IF you want to take back the USA and have more products made here its simple.
1. Get rid of Corprate Taxes (would lower the cost as all Corprate taxes are paid by us anyway) 2. Abolish Unions (inflated rates for labor which even non-union shops must compete with) 3. Abolish the minimum wage (if I agree to work for $3.00 an hour that is my decision) Until this happens companies will keep moving overseas. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:03:21 AM EDT
[#30]
I totally agree that we should demand American products but sometimes I think that if I occasionally throw Mexico a bone, so some of them will stay down there..
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Posted: 6/14/2002 12:15:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: We used to let them come here and pay them squat for their labor- Now we keep them out and pay them squat for their labor! No, now we let them in and they work at Burger King or mow your lawn. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 12:39:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Interesting point on vehicle manufacture, but some of us take the oddity a little farther...
I flatly refuse to buy any vehicle that runs OBD-II or later. Why? You ever try to work on it? I don't want to have to spend $10000 MORE to equip my garage to service my POV's, thank you very much. I currently own three Jeep Cherokee/XJ's - all built in Toledo, OH. 1987, 1988, and 1989. Foreign components? Sure - two automatic transmissions (redesigned AW4's from Toyota - re-engineered and built in America) and one manual transmission (Peugeot, schedules for replacement with an NV3550, made in USA.) Axles were made in Muncie, IN. Transfer cases made in Syracuse, NJ. Electronics made by Bendix in the USA. Chassis built in Toledo, OH. Replacement parts? U-joints - Dana/Spicer (US or CAN.) Electonics? Bendix (US.) Transmission? US-made rebuild kits. Engine? Clevite77 (US.) Dynagear (US.) Melling (US.) TRW (US - I checked.) Tow chains? Get them from Diamond Wire Rope and Cable - cast, welded, and forged in the US. He has "Made in China" stuff for the Yuppies who don't actually use the stuff, but I wouldn't use Chinese steel to make fireplace pokers... Yeah, I know, I'm just cranky. I tend to like things to WORK. FFZ |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 1:40:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I agree with this guy, I much prefer my current line of work to a manufacturing job. Apparently, a lot of other Americans do as well. and so far as I am concerned, there isn't money enough in the universe to hire me to swing a pickaxe thirty days, but I will do the hardest kind of intellectual work for just as near nothing as you can cipher it down -- and I will be satisfied, too. Intellectual "work" is misnamed; it is a pleasure, a dissipation, and is its own highest reward. No fair quoting Rand. [:D] Or did you?? If not, you kin shore write purty. I mostly agree. On the other hand, we're eliminating jobs here very quickly. Software development is moving over the internet to India. Call centers are moving over the internet to India. Manufacturing is being trucked down to Mexico or is handled by shipping simple items in from China. Aeronautical engineering design is being done in Russia. What's left? Making and delivering pizza, repair work (increasingly complex, so that only major businesses can handle it), medical/dental, and other jobs that require hands-on work. I am honestly concerned that we are going to end up in a world like Neal Stephenson's [u]Snow Crash[/u], in which all of our American prosperity has been smeared out into a thin layer, across the entire globe, which only a Pakistani brickmaker would call prosperous. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 3:09:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: No fair quoting Rand. [:D] Or did you?? If not, you kin shore write purty. I mostly agree. On the other hand, we're eliminating jobs here very quickly. Software development is moving over the internet to India. Call centers are moving over the internet to India. Manufacturing is being trucked down to Mexico or is handled by shipping simple items in from China. Aeronautical engineering design is being done in Russia. What's left? Making and delivering pizza, repair work (increasingly complex, so that only major businesses can handle it), medical/dental, and other jobs that require hands-on work. I am honestly concerned that we are going to end up in a world like Neal Stephenson's [u]Snow Crash[/u], in which all of our American prosperity has been smeared out into a thin layer, across the entire globe, which only a Pakistani brickmaker would call prosperous. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 4:02:37 PM EDT
[#35]
An earlier post said GM didn't build blocks and trannies in Mexico. Flat out WRONG. The Mexican cast blocks are so poor that GM has a bulletin out that says to not even try and bore them. Core shift is so bad that rebore is likely to fail. Like most things Mexican, they are of poor quality. "Mexico" cast right on them too!
So many of the good paying jobs have fled the country that far FEWER pweople can now afford the high ticket items like cars. As more good jobs leave, only service and non-productive things remain such as executives and financial businesses. America's demise is in its loss of manufacturing jobs, where something is CREATED. Bankers create nothing, merely feed off others labor. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 4:53:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Does anyone on this board actually believe that by not buying foreign goods or other such lame actions will take back our country? NO.
Lets get real here. We keep electing people that are doing their best to screw us at every turn. Taxes. Violation of the Constitution. Brain washing of the unlearned. Study the law and see just how corrupt this government is. Look at a dollar bill, it is a Federal Reserve note. The Federal Reserve is a private entity. You own nothing that is not granted to you as a use agreement by the government. Read the law. Get out with a few friends who believe in what our Founding Fathers wrought and start pounding on doors. "We are here because we believe in this country and we would like to talk to you about freedom and maintaining our liberty." We are about two steps from loosing it all. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 4:54:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: That's nice, ARs4EVER. I'll continue to purchase whatever gives me the best value, no matter where it is made. In the long run this is best for me and everyone else in the world. Spoken like a true Objectivist. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 5:05:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I agree with the sentiment, but good luck. There is a nice big Ford plant in Canada. The suspension and wiring on a Harley Davidson is foreign. at least some of the harley wiring is made near chicago by cherry electric. ford is closing some canadian stuff, and visteon (until recently a large chunk of ford) is closing all their canadian stuff. believe its going to mexico, of course. my canadian pals are not happy about 'globalization' either. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 5:07:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: . . . Taxes. Violation of the Constitution. Brain washing of the unlearned. . . . Upon what basis do you make this claim? |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 5:26:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: That's nice, ARs4EVER. I'll continue to purchase whatever gives me the best value, no matter where it is made. In the long run this is best for me and everyone else in the world. Spoken like a true Objectivist. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 5:45:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's nice, ARs4EVER. I'll continue to purchase whatever gives me the best value, no matter where it is made. In the long run this is best for me and everyone else in the world. Spoken like a true Objectivist. I guess that I was just referring to an Atlas Shrugged excerpt: "Money . . . demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best your money can find. . . " Seemed that you were doing the same. |
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Posted: 6/14/2002 11:08:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: I guess that I was just referring to an Atlas Shrugged excerpt: "Money . . . demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best your money can find. . . " Seemed that you were doing the same. |
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Posted: 6/15/2002 12:04:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: No fair quoting Rand. [:D] Or did you?? If not, you kin shore write purty. I've never tried the IM stuff; I'm basically a techno-neanderthal in some ways. I guess never the Twain shall meet. I mostly agree. On the other hand, we're eliminating jobs here very quickly. [...] And don't forget that "a rising tide lifts all boats" is not just a trite saying. That's true if everyone is playing honestly and fairly. Throw in distortions such as jobs-at-any-cost politicians (France) and slave labor camps (China) and beggar-thy-neighbor dumpers (Japan, or practically any of our ex-dot.coms) and corrupt politicians causing a nonexistent economy (Mexico) and I'm no longer sure that's entirely the case. (I could almost class India as a dumper, since they trained far more programmers than they could ever use -- except that they did it so they could take American software contracts over the internet.) Not to mention that some people simply aren't cut out for intellectual work. Look at almost any government social-work type office, such as DSHS in Washington state, for example. I guess we can put 'em on welfare, or in slave labor camps, but. . . . As for me, I'm working on finding a new economic niche. My old one appears to have moved to Bangalore, and I'm not sure I want to move there for the excellent wage of $2/day. I might have to take up swinging pickaxes in the hot sun for $5.50/hour here. |
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Posted: 6/15/2002 8:50:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: I've never tried the IM stuff; I'm basically a techno-neanderthal in some ways. I guess never the Twain shall meet. You're pretty clever for a neanderthal.[:)] That's true if everyone is playing honestly and fairly. Throw in distortions such as jobs-at-any-cost politicians (France) and slave labor camps (China) and beggar-thy-neighbor dumpers (Japan, or practically any of our ex-dot.coms) and corrupt politicians causing a nonexistent economy (Mexico) and I'm no longer sure that's entirely the case. I do agree that meddling governments, frauds, thugs, and other undesirables can keep things from their full potential, but people will always do the best they can in the situation that is presented to them. For instance, I have heard several times that the USSR would have collapsed in no time at all if it hadn't been for the black market there. This is because the black market served to correct (some of) the problems the socialist system created. (I could almost class India as a dumper, since they trained far more programmers than they could ever use -- except that they did it so they could take American software contracts over the internet.) Not to mention that some people simply aren't cut out for intellectual work. Look at almost any government social-work type office, such as DSHS in Washington state, for example. I guess we can put 'em on welfare, or in slave labor camps, but. . . . As for me, I'm working on finding a new economic niche. My old one appears to have moved to Bangalore, and I'm not sure I want to move there for the excellent wage of $2/day. I might have to take up swinging pickaxes in the hot sun for $5.50/hour here. IMHO, you shouldn't take the $2/day software job and should take the $40+/day ditch-digging job. |
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Posted: 6/16/2002 12:44:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: I've never tried the IM stuff; I'm basically a techno-neanderthal in some ways. I guess never the Twain shall meet. You're pretty clever for a neanderthal.[:)] I cheated. Google. Sorry. [:D] (I could almost class India as a dumper, since they trained far more programmers than they could ever use -- except that they did it so they could take American software contracts over the internet.) As I attempted to say there, it's a fuzzy situation. India pushed for training a huge oversupply of computer programmers -- far more than they could possibly ever use themselves -- because they wanted to control the world software market, just as Japan had taken over much of the hardware (chips) market in the late 1980's/early 1990's. India did this because they saw ahead to when they could do much of the work remotely. Take a look at [url]http://www.elance.com/[/url] to see it in action. It's smart business. They're making roughly $8/hour (most of which goes to the company; the workers are getting about $1.25/hour (typically), so there's room to lower prices further if they get competition some day from, say, Afghanistan or Antarctica or Mars). Dumping is usually when some country prices its wares at below their own costs, just so that they can take over a market -- beggar-thy-neighbor trade. Once the importing country no longer has an industry (steel is the classic example), the dumper can jack up prices. I don't know if India would ever be able to take that last step. But they clearly "overproduced" programmers for the express purpose of taking over the market when networking improved to the point that they could. So, as I say, I can only make an iffy case for it. Besides, I saw it coming ten years ago too. I wish I'd seen it fifteen years ago so I would've stayed in med school. Hindsight. . . . As for me, I'm working on finding a new economic niche. My old one appears to have moved to Bangalore, and I'm not sure I want to move there for the excellent wage of $2/day. I might have to take up swinging pickaxes in the hot sun for $5.50/hour here. IMHO, you shouldn't take the $2/day software job and should take the $40+/day ditch-digging job. If anyone would hire me for it. Somehow, I doubt they'd be interested in an out-of-shape computer geek with a master's, especially when they could hire a Mexican wetback under the table for less than that anyway. Besides, that $2/day goes a lot further in India than $44/day goes here in Seattle. At that rate, I'd be declaring bankruptcy in six months, maybe less. Realistically, to live here costs a minimum of about $150/day once taxes are figured into it. |
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