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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:08:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Hmmmmm....expect an ATF raid at your warehouse any minute now!
Just kidding (I hope), sounds like the standard response to give them a little time to figure out what their real response will be! Eric The(Suspicious)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:12:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Did you post the text of the email you sent them, Torf? I never did get the complete story.
Nice Suburban, though. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:25:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Here is the e-mail that I fired off as soon as I got this confirmation from Cav. Arms.
[b] I was shocked to read how your customers are being treated. This is a true story that took place last week. Please send Cavalry Arms an apology. ----------------------------------- Most of you by now have heard of the ordeal the Cav-Arms guys went through to get to the BRC. It started with a motorhome rental from www.cruiseamerica.com After contacting Cruise America's customer service and telling them of our plight and reminding them of our cargo, we were told that help would be there in an hour. Instead they contacted DPS and the local Sheriffs Dept. You can imagine what it felt like to be ordered out of the motorhome with our hands over our head's and to get padded down.Standing in the ditch off the side of the Interstate and watching my 12yr old son go through the same treatment was indeed a strange feeling(I was very proud of the way he conducted himself). After the Officers realized that all the Tee's were crossed and the I's dotted they became very upset at the way Cruise America handled this situation (Afterall back-up was called in,just a general waste of their time) The next morning we were told by Cruise America that our contract was to be voided and we were to evacuate the motor home,leaving us without transportation. Hence Shawn's purchase of a $800.00 Chevy Suburban and the rental of a U-Hual trailer to finish out our trip to the BRC. Well the rest is history...Sort of,We did indeed attend the Convention but still had to get back to Arizona. Deja vu...here we are in Oklahoma(Again) when the left rear tire throws it's tread (65mph and towing a trailer)It got pretty squirrely,But thank God for God we didn't roll the thing and were able to limp on to get the rear tires replaced and are now home...Whew!!! In closing I would like to state that I appreciate the comradery of all in attendance...May next years event be a little less dramatic for myself and Cavalry Arms!!! -------------------------------------- Sincerely, [/b] I inserted the text of the story hoping that someone would pay attention to it. I wonder how long it will take for an official response? |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:28:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Dear Sir or Madam, That looks like a letter addressed specifically to Torf. I had always heard that Torf was androgynous and looked very much like Pat. [:D] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:30:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Maybe we should "gang up on them".. Everyone E-mail them and express our disappointment.. My E- mail is on the way...
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:31:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Same response that I got.
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:39:36 AM EDT
[#7]
I definitely would have "voided" their RV, if you catch my drift. [;D]
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:43:54 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Dear Sir or Madam, That looks like a letter addressed specifically to Torf. I had always heard that Torf was androgynous and looked very much like Pat. [:D] ROFLMAO! |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:47:09 AM EDT
[#9]
I got the same response but the heading was definitely, "Sir". Sorry about that androgeny thing.... bummer.
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:48:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Hopefully they are flipping out that one incident can creat such a havoc. [:)] Those bastards!!!
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:55:22 AM EDT
[#11]
This is the e-mail addy of the lady who responded. I sent a repl to her response. Be nice in any additional e-mail.
[email protected] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:57:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Standard form response. Here's what I just got back"
June 6, 2002 Re: Calvary Arms Dear Sir, I am extremely appreciative of the time you spent contacting Cruise America. We will thoroughly review these concerns and take the appropriate actions. Respectfully, Victoria A.Valencia Customer Relations Manager |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 11:05:28 AM EDT
[#13]
methinks thou shouldst sue....... ERIC, do they have one?????
(edited to add that the suburban brought a touch of character and class to the BRC, will you be using it next year?) |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 12:34:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Got the same reply after I emailed the above mentioned ad.
******************************************* June 6, 2002 Re: Calvary Arms Dear Sir, I am extremely appreciative of the time you spent contacting Cruise America. We will thoroughly review these concerns and take the appropriate actions. Respectfully, Victoria A.Valencia Customer Relations Manager -----Original Message----- From: D' riddler [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 12:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Pathetic customer service Madam, I have some colleagues who rented an RV for the purpose of attending a firearm convention in the Midwest from AZ. Along the way, they encountered some problems with the rented RV and instead of sending help, you called on the Oklahoma DPS to have them search and patted down like they were petty criminals. To add insult to injury, your customer service informed them that their rental contract was voided and left them with no transportation whatsoever. This is not only pathetic customer service but also very insulting especially to us who strongly supports the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution. Due to this, I have no other recourse but to encourage all my friends and relatives to avoid doing business with your company. I will also ask them to spread the word around in the hope that companies like yours will know that just because we believe in our "Right to Keep and Bear Arms", we should not be looked upon as "potential felons". Thank you, [green]riddler[/green] (In lieu of name) |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 12:47:03 PM EDT
[#15]
anyone contacted the nra and goa about this? might make a nice addition to their newsletter emails.
They may not care but it would be worth a try. mike |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 12:51:06 PM EDT
[#16]
My response was the same;
June 6, 2002 Re: Calvary Arms Dear Sir, I am extremely appreciative of the time you spent contacting Cruise America. We will thoroughly review these concerns and take the appropriate actions. Respectfully, Victoria A.Valencia Customer Relations Manager I explained how I was a member of a 3 million plus organization, and how I would make it my life's mission to make sure they and no one else used them. It worked so well I got the same canned response as others. Everyone should stay on this one, and e-mail if you have not. "Safety in numbers!" [soapbox] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 12:59:03 PM EDT
[#17]
i just emailed all the info to the GOA. i figure it couldn't hurt.
mike |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 1:18:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Sent e-mail to cruiseamerica. I pointed out to them that they were "pet friendly" (see website top right) but not "Constitution friendly."
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Posted: 6/7/2002 1:31:39 PM EDT
[#19]
^
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Posted: 6/7/2002 1:37:43 PM EDT
[#20]
I got the same canned response.
After what they did to the CavArms guys, they can bite my left nut before I use them. |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 1:38:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Fired off a response to the "response" asking what actions they have taken and what their policy is on this, yada yada.
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Posted: 6/7/2002 2:33:36 PM EDT
[#22]
I notice that all the responses you guys quoted had the name as CALVARY Arms, not Cavalry Arms. Did you guys all make the same mistake, or the the responses actually have it that way?
After all, this is an injustice we're talking about; not a crucifiction [:D] |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 2:33:47 PM EDT
[#23]
those corporate assholes, they dont even pay attention to what they're reading. look at the "re:" (regarding) block !
its [b]Cavalry Arms[/b] not Calvary! the latter is the place where Jesus Christ was crucified isnt it? or a town in Canada...[;)] |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 7:32:05 PM EDT
[#24]
I believe it is time to set the record straight on the Cav Arms incident. I am a senior manager at Cruise America and will reply to any and all sensible questions and comments.
There are two sides to every story, this is ours. First, the most important issue surrounding this matter. Cruise America DID NOT know the vehicle was being used to transport firearms and munitions. Had we know, WE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO RENT THE VEHICLE. Firearms transport (as well as dozens of other products!) are excluded by the contract and our insurance terms. When the tire blew and service was requested, AND it was disclosed that firearms were in the vehicle, WE WERE FORCED TO TERMINATE THE CONTRACT. . . no choice. A comment was made on this board that "we should have known because of the company name, Cav Arms". I don't believe this to be true and makes assumptions that are not valid. Second: The reason the police and fire department were alerted to the incident was, when the tire blew out it damaged the propane system which was reported to be LEAKING! Possible fire with munitions on board, our response speaks for itself. However, let's assume we called the police for no other reason than finding out the vehicle was carrying firearms . . . in today's paranoid environment after 9-11, wouldn't this be justified? Wouldn't you expect it to be reported since we didn't know they were carrying arms NOR did we know they were a licensed dealer. Lastly, there seems to be an underlying tone on this board that we did this because we are a bunch of gun control liberals. Nothing could be further from the truth. The majority of the senior management at Cruise are NRA members, gun collectors and possess concealed carry permits. If a representative from AR15.com would like a reference from some industry people about us . . . just ask. There was no intent, no plan, no ill will, no political ideology at work here. Cruise is a legitimate business, working hard everyday to do a good job for it's customers, employees and communities. Sometimes, things don't work out as good as we all would hope. I welcome you comments, good bad or otherwise. Cruise America |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 7:34:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Randall, check your email
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Posted: 6/7/2002 7:41:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: I believe it is time to set the record straight on the Cav Arms incident. I am a senior manager at Cruise America and will reply to any and all sensible questions and comments. There are two sides to every story, this is ours. First, the most important issue surrounding this matter. Cruise America DID NOT know the vehicle was being used to transport firearms and munitions. Had we know, WE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO RENT THE VEHICLE. Firearms transport (as well as dozens of other products!) are excluded by the contract and our insurance terms. When the tire blew and service was requested, AND it was disclosed that firearms were in the vehicle, WE WERE FORCED TO TERMINATE THE CONTRACT. . . no choice. A comment was made on this board that "we should have known because of the company name, Cav Arms". I don't believe this to be true and makes assumptions that are not valid. Second: The reason the police and fire department were alerted to the incident was, when the tire blew out it damaged the propane system which was reported to be LEAKING! Possible fire with munitions on board, our response speaks for itself. However, let's assume we called the police for no other reason than finding out the vehicle was carrying firearms . . . in today's paranoid environment after 9-11, wouldn't this be justified? Wouldn't you expect it to be reported since we didn't know they were carrying arms NOR did we know they were a licensed dealer. Lastly, there seems to be an underlying tone on this board that we did this because we are a bunch of gun control liberals. Nothing could be further from the truth. The majority of the senior management at Cruise are NRA members, gun collectors and possess concealed carry permits. If a representative from AR15.com would like a reference from some industry people about us . . . just ask. There was no intent, no plan, no ill will, no political ideology at work here. Cruise is a legitimate business, working hard everyday to do a good job for it's customers, employees and communities. Sometimes, things don't work out as good as we all would hope. I welcome you comments, good bad or otherwise. Cruise America ... Well grow some balls and mitigate the problems. ... I'll be damned if I'll from rent from you again this summer. Neither will the folks working for the City or "that big defense contractor" in town. ... Funny thing, I've always transported a sidearm for the purpose of personal security with no problem in the past 5 years with you. I guess neither one of us saw the fine print. NO THANKS CruiseAmerica, there's plenty of competition out there in this field. They have my future business you have lost it! |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 7:43:44 PM EDT
[#27]
There is NO excuse for leaving people (including children) stranded. Did you make any effort at all to offer some alternatives....?
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Posted: 6/7/2002 7:58:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: I believe it is time to set the record straight on the Cav Arms incident. I am a senior manager at Cruise America and will reply to any and all sensible questions and comments. The way you phrased that paragraph with the 'sensible questions and comments' sounds rather condescending. At least that's how I perceive it. So, based on another part of your post, someone cannot legitimately rent a motor home from you to take on a hunting trip, as they would be carrying hunting rifles? |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:03:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: First, the most important issue surrounding this matter. Cruise America DID NOT know the vehicle was being used to transport firearms and munitions. Had we know, WE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO RENT THE VEHICLE. Firearms transport terms. When the tire blew and service was requested, AND it was disclosed that firearms were in the vehicle, WE WERE FORCED TO TERMINATE THE CONTRACT. . . no choice.(as well as dozens of other products!) are excluded by the contract and our insurance Cruise America "We had to tell Cruise America what our cargo was as they wanted to send a van to pick us up and take us to a hotel while the RV was being fixed. We had about two dozen NFA weapons on board, and we can not allow those to leave our immediate control. It's not like they didn't know what we would be carrying anyway...the day Garryowen and I reserved the RV, we went into the Mesa location with CAV Arms shirts on, open carrying, told them we were going to use it to go to a machine gun shoot, and rented it under the company name." - SinistralRifleman Well? And no, I wouldn't expect the police to be called because there were firearms. Unless your company is vastly more paranoid then I am, and quite frankly, I'd find that hard to believe. |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:05:19 PM EDT
[#30]
How is this for sensible.
When the owner of Cavalry Arms went there to rent it, he told them he was a gun mfgr & was going to a gun show. He also told them he was going to use them for other gun shows. He was wearing company shirt displaying firearms. The people who rented to him KNEW the renters would have firearms. If they didn't, they sure must not have been very awake. I think the contract will be looked over very closely by the renters to verify the statement of being forced to terminate. This clause eliminates all CCW holders & anyone going on a hunting trip. The clause should be eliminated or reviewed & the customers should be compensated for their loss. That would be good PR. |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:05:48 PM EDT
[#31]
That's pretty cool. Confess up now. Who is pretending to be Cruise America?
Scott |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:14:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Okay..I was waiting for the responses from "Cruise America"..Here's my two bits..
I've stopped two times on I-17 to assist stranded motorhomes, bearing your logo.. When someone is on the side of a freeway in Arizona (Especially the grade between Black Canyon city, and Sunset peak) I try to see if I can help.. One was merely a thrown belt.. Not a big deal, except the other two were in a conditon that I would'nt use to tie a garbage bag with.. The renters barely spoke English, and had attempted to call the office in Phoenix, to no avail.. "She keep hanging up..Why?" I have friends in BCC, so we got em running again.. No, I did'nt charge em, except for the cost of the belts..(Not all professional wrenches make pacts with Satan, contrary to popular opinion) The other was south of Flagstaff(Long grade between Camp Verde, and Flag..) .. This was by far the "best" ..Flat tire, No jack, no lug wrench, no spare.. And they had no phone.. Here, the most I could do was make sure they had water, and set out warning triangles (Right.. none in the RV.)til the DPS showed up.. So with the recent comment from a customer of yours, regarding such "customer service", give me a reason why I should ever consider renting, or reccomending someone rent from your corporation, especially in Arizona? (I'll walk first, thank you.) Meplat- |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:17:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: That's pretty cool. Confess up now. Who is pretending to be Cruise America? Scott Um..... After some checking --> It's REALLY them ! I'd NEVER rent one of their vehicles and have alerted everyone that I know about the particulars.... |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:24:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Cool.....
Scott |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:28:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Second: The reason the police and fire department were alerted to the incident was, when the tire blew out it damaged the propane system which was reported to be LEAKING! Possible fire with munitions on board, our response speaks for itself. Funny how "the police [b]and fire department[/b] were alerted" but only DPS and the Sheriff's officers showed up, huh? And yes, your response absolutely speaks for itself. It speaks loud and clear. It shouts, "The folks at CrassAmerica may be NRA members, but when it comes to their business, they don't trust gunowners." |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:34:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Will there be a second post from "CruiseAmerica" or will all of our points be outside the bracket of "sensible comments"...?
Scott |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 8:42:31 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm guessing they're regretting posting here at all.
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Posted: 6/7/2002 9:28:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Hmmm, I've got some time tommorrow, maybe I'll stop by Cruise AmeriKa and chat a little. Can anyone say test drive?
I also think the Cruise AmeriKa guy that posted here will need help removing his foot from his big corporate mouth. Cav Arms, take them to court, I'll serve the papers no charge! |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 9:28:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: However, let's assume we called the police for no other reason than finding out the vehicle was carrying firearms . . . in today's paranoid environment after 9-11, wouldn't this be justified? Wouldn't you expect it to be reported since we didn't know they were carrying arms NOR did we know they were a licensed dealer. No offense meant to Cav Arms, but this is EXACTLY the type of reaction so many here support and rationalize when it is to be used against someone who doesn't happen to fit the WASP profile. It isn't nice when it happens to one of us now, does it? |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 9:54:58 PM EDT
[#40]
What do you think a company whose name incorporates the word "arms" deals in? Appendages for mannequins?
Save it for the tourists, Doofus. Don't Tread... |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 9:56:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Did they think [b]Cavalry Arms[/b] made upper prothetic limbs for old horse soldiers?????
Scott [:D] |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 10:09:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Maybe just MAYBE! to redeem themselves since their staff is said to be NRA members etc... MAYBE cruise america should sponcer a good portion of next years events in order to redeem itsself. GOOD IDEA BAD IDEA?
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Posted: 6/7/2002 10:13:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Did they think [b]Cavalry Arms[/b] made upper prothetic limbs for old horse soldiers????? Scott [:D] Laughed till it hurt!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 10:18:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Well I do have to give them a little credit for posting a response here . Maybe the employees of the office that rented out the RV should go through a pat down . Makes me wonder if they share stock with UPS ?
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Posted: 6/7/2002 10:28:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Does this mean that if we were to rent a motorhome from Cruise America, we could not have any firearms in the vehicle.
I do not travel without at least one weapon. Do they give you a limit??? Or is it don't ask, don't tell? Before this event, we were going to rent two motorhomes to take to a family reunion. I would have never even thought to ask about carrying weapons on the motorhome. I could not even thing of taking a motorhome trip without weapons. I am impressed that CruiseAmerica posted though. |
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Posted: 6/7/2002 10:30:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Cruise America;
Thanks for your response. It took some courage to come here and acknowledge all the emails the incident has generated. IMHO, it seems like the error was at the clerk level when your office rented to CavArms. It seems reasonable, given the statements of those involved, that your clerks should have realized what the rental RV was to be used for. After that, since they accepted the rental fees, they de facto accepted the presence of firearms on said RV inspite of any written agreements or terms, and Cruise America could be held legally responsible for any charges incurred in later termination of said contract. Just my take. (I'm NOT a lawyer NOR do I play one on TV. Hun, or other lawyers, what is your take on that logic?) respectfully, -legrue |
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Posted: 6/8/2002 3:39:53 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Cruise America DID NOT know the vehicle was being used to transport firearms and munitions. Had we know, WE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO RENT THE VEHICLE. Firearms transport (as well as dozens of other products!) are excluded by the contract and our insurance terms. [b]THIS is the standard set by....[/b] The majority of the senior management at Cruise are NRA members, gun collectors and possess concealed carry permits. [b]Folks like that????[/b] However, let's assume we called the police for no other reason than finding out the vehicle was carrying firearms . . . in today's paranoid environment after 9-11, wouldn't this be justified? Wouldn't you expect it to be reported since we didn't know they were carrying arms NOR did we know they were a licensed dealer. [b]I think "paranoid" is a fitting word, and while denied, "bunch of gun control liberals" may also be very fitting...[/b] [b]PLEASE! Dont piss on my head and tell me its raining!!! Like someone else said, feel free to join Kmart in Bankruptcy hell. And one last thought, consider yourself lucky if you dont see legal action, were it me, you would have been served already...[/b] [red]GARRYOWEN SIR!!!![/red] |
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Posted: 6/8/2002 4:12:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Right or wrong I have not seen nor heard of an attempt by Cruise America to make this right. If the owners or coorporate bigwhigs of the company are NRA members/supporters then why do they not reflect it and support gun owners in their business? Again, elitist mentality, we are but we do not trust our customers!
Has anyone posted this to the other gun boards? I think we should send them the way of Smith and Wesson. Maybe Cruise America will remember what we did to them? |
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Posted: 6/8/2002 4:34:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Just a couple more questions or thoughts.
Do they not also rent "fun movers" to transport motorcycles and such? Aren't they worried about those being in their vehicles and containing gas tanks and people loading gas containers in them. Seems a pretty dangerous situation to me! Also, since I am an avid motorcyclist and head of a state org. having to do with ATV and motocross, I wrote them to say I will go out of my way to make this story heard in the motorcycle community to which many are gun enthusiasts and outdoor recreation supporters too. |
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Posted: 6/8/2002 5:32:18 AM EDT
[#50]
Hmmm, Torn between two cities....
I have to say I agree with them. Proper action was taken as a corporate entity. [b]If the CavArms guys were arab, and nobody knew of them, would everybody still be having a fit? I doubt it...[/b] Then we would be commending them...way to stop the terrorists! whoop-de-doo Yeah, we know and love the guys that are part of the fun, but who else knows? Prolly not a lot 'o folks. They (someone) simply did what they (someone) thought was the proper action, and I'm with them. Oklahoma city folks; backtrack and do the math - McVeigh-->> gunfan --> Boom = We are all under suspicion (Talking about media representation) BOO! Enjoy the way of life, but don't ostracize people that turn in a truck full of guns to DPS. They were not arrested or detained unnecessarily, If anything they should be re-imbursed for the expense of the alternate vehicle and their time @ $50/ hr by the Company in question... Some people aren't as smart as us edited to correct spelling.. then realized i was far to lazy |
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