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Posted: 6/5/2002 5:44:41 PM EDT
Remember that girl who spit food in my face? We've been getting along [i]real[/i] good lately, and have been seeing quite abit of eachother. I found out today (don't ask how) that she was raped a couple years back. She hasn't said anything to me about it (which is understandable), but it really bugs me. Think I should talk to her about it, or just let the past be the past?
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 5:50:08 PM EDT
Why does it bug you? Statistically, the odds are around 1 in 3 of you dating a woman who has been raped or molested in her lifetime. What I'm saying is... what do YOU hope to gain from talking about it? I'd tell her if she ever feels like she would like to talk to you about it that you will be there. Other than that, don't pick at old wounds.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 5:52:50 PM EDT
I honestly can't say why it bugs me, but it does...
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 5:54:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: I'd tell her if she ever feels like she would like to talk to you about it that you will be there. Other than that, don't pick at old wounds.
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Unfortunately I have some experience in this area. I would simply be there for her if 'she' choose to broach the subject. Also I would certainly begin as a very gentle lover and take further cues from the lady.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 5:54:43 PM EDT
I'd suggest you figure that out before you approach her. BTW, did she tell you or did you find out from someone else? Unless she told you herself, don't bring it up.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 5:56:02 PM EDT
if it is affecting her, and her life, and the people around her, get her to professional help! some people are solid as a rock though, and don't need much help. just understand that phsycological complications could surface years later. play it by ear, and dont make hasty judgments on anything. and respect her wishes unless it there is a obvious reason not to.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 5:57:23 PM EDT
Leave it alone. If she feels the need to tell you then she will. If you can't handle it then you've got the problem not her. If you ask questions your just going to mess things up.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 5:58:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 6:13:46 PM EDT
Hate to sound harsh, but I will anyway. If it bugs you that someone did something to her AGAINST HER WILL, then she is better off without you... Scott
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 6:17:27 PM EDT
I've been down this road before. Let her tell you and share with you what she will in her own way. Try and put it out of your mind and get on with life, she seems to be doing ok.. she is still seeing you, isn't she? :)
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 6:19:03 PM EDT
If it "bugs" you, bail. I personally would NOT try and talk to her about it. If she want's you know, she will tell you in her own time. My .02. AB
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 6:19:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 6:26:29 PM EDT
Run! Unless she has had some serious counselling, get out. Something like that really scars a person emotionally and really screws them up. Keving67
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 6:33:56 PM EDT
If she did not tell you, do not bring it up. Do not open the wound. She is dealing with it in her own way. Good luck
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 6:53:42 PM EDT
wow, AR15 must be cleaning up. No one even suggested getting laid a couple of times before dumping her.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:08:10 PM EDT
I have experience with this also. Here's my thoughts. If I remember correctly, you only met this girl about a month or so ago. There's no way she will feel comfortable talking to you about something that traumatic and personal yet. The pain a girl feels from being raped is unbelievable and it really really really adversely affects her life. If you two become close and she feels comfortable with you and trusts you, she will eventually tell you. Don't ask her about it, as she'll probably only be hurt and mad that you already know. It wouldn't even surprise me if she never talked to you again after you asked her about it. Expect some strange behavior from her, but if you really like her and care about her, support her and be her friend. She probably needs that. If she ever does tell you about it, be prepared for an emotional night. Just my thoughts from my experience. Good luck and my email address is in my profile is you want to talk more.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:29:58 PM EDT
"Rape" is a pretty broad term. Are we talking attacked, beaten, and forced upon while jogging? Or are we talking a great party with semi-consentual sex followed by regret the next morning that sometimes gets called "rape"? None of it's good, but the details of the crime should shed some light on just how scaring one can expect the event to be. I don't think many can walk away from the worst form no worse for wear. I will say this, if I feel in love with a girl who had once been smacked around and raped after saying NO!, then I know *I* would have some pretty serious anger issues about that. Maybe that's what's bugging you?
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:34:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By keving67: Run! Unless she has had some serious counselling, get out. Something like that really scars a person emotionally and really screws them up. Keving67
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First, I agree with Miss Magnum. Second, It usually affects young girls more so than women. Most women will seek help if needed but it isn't always that tramatic.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:35:01 PM EDT
For such a bunch of rowdys, You guys make me proud to be a part of this board.. I can add nothing.. It's all in the string...
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:37:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:50:50 PM EDT
Thanks for the advice guys (and gals). I think I'm going to wait until she tells me, if she does... Thanks again
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:05:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: Statistically, the odds are around 1 in 3 of you dating a woman who has been raped or molested in her lifetime.
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I've heard those numbers before, and they have to be BS.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:09:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: Statistically, the odds are around 1 in 3 of you dating a woman who has been raped or molested in her lifetime.
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I've heard those numbers before, and they have to be BS.
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I'm in that business and it's in the ballpark...
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:12:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: Statistically, the odds are around 1 in 3 of you dating a woman who has been raped or molested in her lifetime.
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I've heard those numbers before, and they have to be BS.
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You'd be surprise how much that it isn't BS . Been to enough counseling session with my wife to know , sometimes the sessions would stir up so much turmoil that I'd end up sleeping on the couch . If you really care for her just be prepare to go the distance for/with her .
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:42:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: Statistically, the odds are around 1 in 3 of you dating a woman who has been raped or molested in her lifetime.
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I've heard those numbers before, and they have to be BS.
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After taking the Pima County Attorney's Office victim witness crisis training, these number are the exact number they gave for the statistics in this country. Interesting side note. South Africa has the same statistics, they consider rape to be an epidemic.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:42:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ComputerGuy: I honestly can't say why it bugs me, but it does...
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I would suggest, (if I may), work on this.....
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:43:42 PM EDT
She will tell you whenshe is ready, let her tell you. When she does be her friend- caring and empathetic.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:47:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2002 8:48:30 PM EDT by Kaliburz]
Originally Posted By ComputerGuy: Thanks for the advice guys (and gals). I think I'm going to wait until she tells me, if she does... Thanks again
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Ah.... ya just confired that she did not tell. Forget you ever heard about it. Assume it's a lie/error....(until it comes from her mouth.)
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 9:13:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eagle1911:
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: Statistically, the odds are around 1 in 3 of you dating a woman who has been raped or molested in her lifetime.
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I've heard those numbers before, and they have to be BS.
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After taking the Pima County Attorney's Office victim witness crisis training, these number are the exact number they gave for the statistics in this country. Interesting side note. South Africa has the same statistics, they consider rape to be an epidemic.
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Oh, but we in the United States of America are enlightened. We had the "sexual revolution" in the 60s. God help us.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 9:22:26 PM EDT
That's such BS. I don't know anyone that has ever been raped. Unless there's some segment of the population that totally skews the statistics, I would say somebody has been fudging the numbers.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 9:27:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 10:05:34 PM EDT
Is the person who informed you of her rape a close friend of hers? If so, maybe she asked the friend to tell you about the rape to allow you to think about it and see if you still were interested in carrying on a relationship with her. I would think for her it would be a very uncomfortable thing to talk about, especially in such a new relationship. Hope it works out for the both of you.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 10:30:25 PM EDT
I have gone out with four women in this situation. I don't know what the true stats are - but the occurrence seems to be all too common.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 10:43:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jz02: That's such BS. I don't know anyone that has ever been raped. Unless there's some segment of the population that totally skews the statistics, I would say somebody has been fudging the numbers.
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I'll stand by the numbers. In general, women have a fear of reporting the crime of rape. 1st, society tends to judge the victim and say thing such as: she asked for it, she should not have been dressed like that, or what was she doing going for a walk after dark, or if she would not have had that much to drink, it would not have happened. My favorite is when people say she should not have been in his apartment or house, why did she go up there, she should have known better. In the case of this crime, society like to blame the victim. 2nd, they are revictimized every time they have to retell the crime. 3rd, our justice system is not the best at treating victims with respect. Since it is an adversary system the defense team gets to cross examine the witness. The defense is not always gentle in this matter. Yes, I do believe in the right to confront your accuser. Please, lets remember, a person has a right to decide when they are going to have sex. This applies to both men and women. one last thing, for those of you who do not agree with what I just said, that's ok, that's your right. Think about one thing though, if your daughter came to you in any of the situations above, I would say that some ar's, shotguns, or handguns would be getting loaded, I would assume so you could go to the range and let off some anger.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 10:46:28 PM EDT
My advice is wait for her to talk to you about it. As for the numbers, I have had two real relationships, both of them have been raped. (one is my wife) It bothered me too. But It was because it makes me so mad that it happened. anyways back to the numbers. out of me and my two brothers, ALL our wives were raped. Si I'd say the numbers are very close. Anyways be caring and gentle and just be there when the time comes. Scott
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 11:04:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2002 11:07:44 PM EDT by zonan]
Originally Posted By eagle1911: After taking the Pima County Attorney's Office victim witness crisis training, these number are the exact number they gave for the statistics in this country.
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I believe you and everyone else that said that it is the official statistic, I just don't believe it is the actual statistic. There is simply no way to come up with it from an actual sampling, so they must be taking some very large liberties with extrapolation. I know of noone who has been raped/molested, nor do I know anyone who knows anyone that falls in that category. I am aware of the fact that being raped would be one of those things that someone might hide from others--and for that reason, they would be equally likely to hide it from those doing the supposed study--but that too is a matter of statistics. I have also heard that some significant percentage (I forget exactly what it is) of rapes occur between people that know each other. I would think that a very large portion of those don't meet a serious definition of rape. All my opinion, of course, but I don't believe 1/3 for a second. Maybe 1/100.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 11:05:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jz02: That's such BS. I don't know anyone that has ever been raped. Unless there's some segment of the population that totally skews the statistics, I would say somebody has been fudging the numbers.
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That's exactly what I think.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 11:22:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2002 11:23:36 PM EDT by eagle1911]
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By eagle1911: After taking the Pima County Attorney's Office victim witness crisis training, these number are the exact number they gave for the statistics in this country.
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I believe you and everyone else that said that it is the official statistic, I just don't believe it is the actual statistic. There is simply no way to come up with it from an actual sampling, so they must be taking some very large liberties with extrapolation. I know of noone who has been raped/molested, nor do I know anyone who knows anyone that falls in that category. I am aware of the fact that being raped would be one of those things that someone might hide from others--and for that reason, they would be equally likely to hide it from those doing the supposed study--but that too is a matter of statistics. I have also heard that some significant percentage (I forget exactly what it is) of rapes occur between people that know each other. I would think that a very large portion of those don't meet a serious definition of rape. All my opinion, of course, but I don't believe 1/3 for a second. Maybe 1/100.
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I would have to say that the statistics were developed the same way the statistics we has gun owners use to defend why we use guns. For example: Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. (1) This means that each year, firearms are used more than 60 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. (2) This statistic is used to defend the use of gun ownership, but using your theory how can we as gun owners prove it. Edited to add, the statistic was taken from the Gun Owners of America website.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 11:58:36 PM EDT
Simple, I don't use statistics to defend gunownership. I use the concept of fundamental right to self defense and the constitution. Argue thigns with statistics and it's very easy to fall into the trap of statistical reasoning. Also, statistics are notoriously prone to interpretation. I personally think that statistics should occurpy a minor niche in political or social discussions, because those who compile them so often have agendas which loads the numbers. That aside, I can say from personal experience that rape is a rare occurance. I've never seen it, know anyone who've seen it, or anyone who's experienced or perpetrated it. Plus, definition of rape also blur. What would you call sex during intoxication when the girl isn't aware of her actions? What if she didn't consent, but she didn't object either. I mean most of the time with consensual sex people don't go out and literally give a green light for sex. It's often more subtle and in an intoxicated state, it's easy to confuse friendliness with an invitation for sex. I think it's very possible that our social networks are skewed, you know so many raped women and I know none. It's impossible to conclude what the actual occurance of rape is, all we can conclude is that it's somewhere between 0 and 1, between never and always.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 2:53:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 2:54:19 AM EDT by lordtrader]
Originally Posted By Miss_Magnum: What I'm saying is... what do YOU hope to gain from talking about it? I'd tell her if she ever feels like she would like to talk to you about it that you will be there. Other than that, don't pick at old wounds.
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Good advice I agree.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 3:21:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jz02: That's such BS. I don't know anyone that has ever been raped. Unless there's some segment of the population that totally skews the statistics, I would say somebody has been fudging the numbers.
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I bet you don't know anyone who is gay either....right?
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 3:40:06 AM EDT
Don't bring the subject up.....Let her be the one to bring it up first.....Meantime, prepare yourself on how to support her in case that she does bring it up.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 6:41:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jz02: That's such BS. I don't know anyone that has ever been raped. Unless there's some segment of the population that totally skews the statistics, I would say somebody has been fudging the numbers.
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Didn't you say you were still in high school? If so, wait a few years, I bet you will meet at least one girl that has been raped. Also, I've noticed you are a bit argumentative and abrasive on this board. Not really the kind of personality that a girl would feel comfortable talking with anyway. And the original statistics that MM posted referred to rape and molestation, not just rape. I can say through my own experience that 1 in 3 is easy to believe.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 8:57:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jz02: Simple, I don't use statistics to defend gunownership. I use the concept of fundamental right to self defense and the constitution. Argue thigns with statistics and it's very easy to fall into the trap of statistical reasoning. Also, statistics are notoriously prone to interpretation. I personally think that statistics should occurpy a minor niche in political or social discussions, because those who compile them so often have agendas which loads the numbers. That aside, I can say from personal experience that rape is a rare occurance. I've never seen it, know anyone who've seen it, or anyone who's experienced or perpetrated it. Plus, definition of rape also blur. What would you call sex during intoxication when the girl isn't aware of her actions? What if she didn't consent, but she didn't object either. I mean most of the time with consensual sex people don't go out and literally give a green light for sex. It's often more subtle and in an intoxicated state, it's easy to confuse friendliness with an invitation for sex. I think it's very possible that our social networks are skewed, you know so many raped women and I know none. It's impossible to conclude what the actual occurance of rape is, all we can conclude is that it's somewhere between 0 and 1, between never and always.
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So you do not know anyone who has been raped. I know at lest 4 women who have been raped or molested. I also know at least 4 teenagers who have been molested. two of each of these groups are family members. two are close friends. Still do not belive the stats, go to a rape crisis shelter and talk with one of their counselors. also remember, that a lot of rapes are plead down to simpler crimes that do not meet the definition of rape. it does not take away the fact the women was raped, it was just plead down accordingly. The circumstance of women drinking and getting raped after say making out, a lot of times happens with people on first or second dates, with people who do not know each other very well. so I suppose it is ok with you to go out with a girl and when she drinks to much, for you guys to have sex, even if she initiated foreplay and then changed her mind. What's your defense going to be, come on we were messing around and she changed her mind. she really wanted to have sex, I just had to help her remember that we had been messing around.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 8:59:31 AM EDT
notice how I refrain from name calling and flaming on my of my posts. I just have views that are different from some people on this board. Of all my relatives and people I know, none has ever been raped. I have two aunts that were beaten by their husbands but that's it. If 1/3 of women are raped and they make up 1/2 of the population. The math adds that up to 1/6 of the population having been raped (not counting the men who are raped). so you're saying that over 1/6 of our country have been victims of rape. These statistics are somewhat hard to believe. On the flip side, unless we have some serious serial rapists lurking around, then these numbers imply that there are also large numbers of rapists. (divide number of women raped by average count per rapist). Even if we assume that count is 20, that will still leave an army of over 2 million rapists in this country.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:06:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jz02: Simple, I don't use statistics to defend gunownership. I use the concept of fundamental right to self defense and the constitution. Argue thigns with statistics and it's very easy to fall into the trap of statistical reasoning. Also, statistics are notoriously prone to interpretation. I personally think that statistics should occurpy a minor niche in political or social discussions, because those who compile them so often have agendas which loads the numbers.
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That arguement has worked very well in New York. Yes, I know about skewing numbers. The general population of this country does not. To change the mind of the population you have to have numbers to counter the numbers being put out by the anti's otherwise they are going to belive the anti's numbers. The general population wants easy to read and understand material.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:09:23 AM EDT
If I go to a rape crisis center of course I'll see raped women. *LOL* That's like saying if I go to a soup kitchen of course I'll see homeless people. If a go to a funeral of course I'll see dead people. If you work with raped people all day of course you'll think women are being raped left and right. That defines the scope of your exposure to the world at large. I don't know why some of you have such large exposures to raped women, because I have had none. In my experience, women are generally well respected in our society. The bottomline is, the math doesn't add up. The statistics might make sense if the Soviet Army was plowing through, but that is not the case.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:14:25 AM EDT
The right to keep and bear arms is a philosophical issue of basic rights. It can not be resolved by numbers. Our society has been conditioned to accept the results of science, but there's so much junk science out there our schools do not teach people the skepticism necessary for good science to prevail. I do not believe in sinking to the level of the Antis and use numbers and the name of scientific research to shove my agenda down other people's throats. All this is is a lowly appeal to authority, a classical technique of persuasion.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:22:17 AM EDT
The definition of rape is painted with a very broad brush. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:38:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: The definition of rape is painted with a very broad brush. Sgtar15
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rape1 Pronunciation Key (rp) n. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice. [url=http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=rape]rape[/url] for a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry broad brush. try sexual assault. if there are second thoughts after the fact and eventhough it was consentual at the time you can be found guilty of sexual assault.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:43:46 AM EDT
I think everyone else has given good advise here concerning asking her about it. But you should not have unprotected sex with this girl until you KNOW that she has tested NEGATIVE for HIV for at least a couple of years. I forget the protocol, but if she reported it and went to a hospital she was most likely told to have HIV and other STD tests at regular intervals for a certain period of time. She also cannot donate blood, organs, etc... Cover your six... and your jimmy until you know her very well and this topic is discussed.
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