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Posted: 3/30/2001 1:17:24 PM EDT
What are the various abnormalities of shooting a rifle (or pistol) in the rain? I imagine the rainwater/moisture would affect the barrel more on a .223 caliber rifle than .308. Yes? How about accuracy? Wear?
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 1:20:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2001 1:22:43 PM EDT by MindHunter]
I don't think rain would affect a pistol unless it was raining so hard you could not see the front sight. Hunter out...
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 1:22:29 PM EDT
I went shooting in the rain a couple times. Whatever you do don't let your guns sit in their cases over night, well you can if you like rust. Also if you reload, brass that gets wet gets black splotches and takes forever to tumble clean.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 1:26:22 PM EDT
How would it affect the rifle AS you are shooting in the rain? Never having been in the military (which I regret), I'm sure they do it all the time. What about being underwater, then coming above the surface (like you see in the Army commercials) and firing?
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 1:27:34 PM EDT
What are the various abnormalities of shooting a rifle (or pistol) in the rain?
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The only 'abnormality' I noticed was that even though I was very wet, I was happy. (mainly because I was shooting)
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 1:41:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wobblin Goblin: What are the various abnormalities of shooting a rifle (or pistol) in the rain? I imagine the rainwater/moisture would affect the barrel more on a .223 caliber rifle than .308. Yes? How about accuracy? Wear?
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Do you really think the bullet gets wet, or?
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 1:55:02 PM EDT
I'm curious, say, if your barrel has a decent amount of rainwater in it, how will it affect the rifle? The accuracy of that shot? I must be a wierdo or something 'cause nobody is answering the question no matter how I refrase it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 1:55:35 PM EDT
I know that you can fire a handgun underwater. The bore must not have any air pockets, however. I know this has been done with 1911s and revolvers. I don't suggest trying it, however. It seems to me that a '16 would shoot fine after coming out of the water, as long as the water is [i]completely[/i] drained from the bore. As far as the effect on rain on exterior ballistics, there is an effect but it is rather small. I believe that rain defelects the bullet downwards slightly, probably nonlinear with range.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:07:04 PM EDT
No real effects. I've shot in downpours & snow storms. It effects your visiblity and plays havoc with your optics, but AFA the rifle is concerned, business as usual. I'm sure it effects ballistics some, but I didn't notice and I was shooting from 25 yards to 500 meters in the last downpour.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:14:41 PM EDT
Thanks, guys. That's the kind of information I was asking for. It is pouring now, and will be for days and I want to shoot.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:15:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wobblin Goblin: What are the various abnormalities of shooting a rifle (or pistol) in the rain?
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There could be a change in point of impact due to changes in pressure, temperature, and humidity over the long haul.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:16:45 PM EDT
I think more than one or two small drops of water in your rifle's bore would be a very bad thing, especially in the small .22 centerfires. If it were sitting right on top the bullet, maybe all you'd get is moderately excessive pressure, but having an inch-long "plug" of water 3/4 way down your barrel would likely cause at least a microscopic "goose egg" to form in the barrel. Much more water than that would surely blow up the gun. The military teaches to at least point your muzzle down and extract the chambered cartridge part way to break the suction and let the water drain out, after the rifle has been in water. I too have heard that low-powered pistols can sometimes be fired underwater without damage, but that would not likely be possible with high-velocity magnum cartridges. I don't know about the effects of rain externally, but I imagine if a fast hollowpoint from a .220 Swift or .17 Remington hit a big fat raindrop it would explode in the air.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:20:25 PM EDT
I agreee with Don. Rain has no significant effect on your trajectory. The only problem would be visibility.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:22:36 PM EDT
Wet ammo ups pressure. Primers blow out, shots on call are flyers.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:24:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2001 2:49:55 PM EDT by gardenWeasel]
No real effects.
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Not that I've ever notice either, but they use all that for the 155mm howitzers. I suppose if it was critical in small arms at short ranges we'd have seen a quadruple mount wet/dry bulb thermometer and barometer mounted on an AR15 stuffed between the other gizmos. Anyhow if humidity goes up, impact goes down; if humidity goes down, impact goes up. Supposedly A twenty percent change in humidity will equal about one minute of angle, affecting the point of impact. I suppose it has to do with molarity and drag etc.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:27:10 PM EDT
There was an interesting article about shooting in rain/snow that was published in Guns & Ammo several years ago. I do not remember who wrote the article or what issue it was in, but I do recall thinking that it made a lot of sense when I read it back then. The article did address some of the issues involved with ballistics when shooting in precipitation. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 3:05:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 3:20:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Death_By_AR15: I agreee with Don. Rain has no significant effect on your trajectory. The only problem would be visibility.
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HA! That reminds me of being at range in Okinawa during the rainy season. The guy next to me must have been one of those stay press types who starch their cover. With all that rain the starch/sizing was running out of the fabric right into his eyes. Can you say unq?
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 3:25:46 PM EDT
According to U.S. RIFLE FROM JOHN GARAND TO THE M21 by R.blake Stevens... 1 or 2 rain drops sitting on the bottom of the flashsuppressor of a National match M14 will change the point of aim. This is why the guys at the Camp Perry nationals would cover the FS with an old 22LR box. One reason that the old 3 prong M16 FS was replaced by the "Birdcage" is because it collected less water in the bore, water in the bore of the M16 could case the barrel to burst. This is why troops are trained point the weapon down, pull the bolt/carrier back slightly and shake the water out.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 4:08:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 4:20:20 PM EDT
Rain is considered an inherent error in firing, doesn't matter if it is 155 or 5.56. Inherent error are those that you cannot correct for, because they are random and immeasurable. Rain can case a bullet or projectile to strike at a point of impact away from the point of aim. It a rain drop actually strikes the round in flight it will alter its trajectory, but a very slight amount that you would not see until the range increases, since those types of errors are proportional total distance of flight of a projectile. Generally the magnitude of error is so small that you wouldn't not be able to tell if it was caused by round to round variation or human error.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 4:24:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 4:25:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 4:33:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By STLRN: Rain is considered an inherent error in firing, doesn't matter if it is 155 or 5.56. Inherent error are those that you cannot correct for, because they are random and immeasurable. Rain can case a bullet or projectile to strike at a point of impact away from the point of aim. It a rain drop actually strikes the round in flight it will alter its trajectory, but a very slight amount that you would not see until the range increases, since those types of errors are proportional total distance of flight of a projectile. Generally the magnitude of error is so small that you wouldn't not be able to tell if it was caused by round to round variation or human error.
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But when it rains the pressure drops.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 5:04:20 PM EDT
It had no effect on my M1Tac and 11/87 as I shot clays. Got damm rust on my 11/87 rear rifled sight now, but....
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 5:16:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By timeport: It had no effect on my M1Tac and 11/87 as I shot clays. Got damm rust on my 11/87 rear rifled sight now, but....
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Try a little whale oil.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 5:26:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2001 5:30:25 PM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Originally Posted By garden weasel:
Originally Posted By timeport: It had no effect on my M1Tac and 11/87 as I shot clays. Got damm rust on my 11/87 rear rifled sight now, but....
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Try a little whale oil.
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Ok. I guess I deserved that. I'll just get a new barrel and save the whales.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 5:31:09 PM EDT
It seems to me that a '16 would shoot fine after coming out of the water, as long as the water is [i]completely[/i] drained from the bore. As far as the effect on rain on exterior ballistics, there is an effect but it is rather small. I believe that rain defelects the bullet downwards slightly, probably nonlinear with range.
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You can fire a 16 if it has been submerged. You need to point the barrel down slightly and pull the charging handle bac a little to break the seal on the chamber. The water drains out, then you release the bolt, and tap the forward assist. Thats why they all have the little drain holes in the stocks. Aviator
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 6:11:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2001 6:14:20 PM EDT by STLRN]
garden weasel That is true, but normally pressure changes are correctable errors (constant errors), not non-correctable (inherent errors). One of the lines of any artillery met message is barometric pressure, that used to enter into the TFT to produce corrections to the firing data to adjust the quadrant elevation to achieve the desired range.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 6:16:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By STLRN: garden weasel That is true, but normally pressure changes are correctable errors (constant errors), not non-correctable (inherent errors). One of the lines of any artillery met message is barometric pressure, that used to enter into the TFT to produce corrections to the firing data to adjust the quadrant elevation to achieve the desired range.
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An 0847 told me that once.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 8:47:22 AM EDT
The rain has let up for awhile so I'm going shooting. Atleast I am slightly more educated on the "rain" subject. Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 1:03:23 PM EDT
Good post, Wobblin Goblin - previous replies about making sure to get the water out of the barrel make sense. I was taught that way, and always did it, and never had one blow up on me. As far as accuracy, change in barometric pressure and intensity of rain must make a difference at long range, but for 100 - 200 meters, not enough to notice, at least as I've noticed.
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