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Posted: 5/30/2002 3:27:39 PM EDT
Man, some days there's No Love For Frank(tm)... Today was the day I was supposed to join the ranks of those who can claim ownership of an AR-15 rifle. Four months ago I had placed an order with a local shop for a Bushmaster XM15 E2S M4 Type Carbine. I specified, and it was listed on the order sheet, that I wanted to have the 16 inch M4 profile barrel, the full 16" without any muzzle brake. I tried to be as clear as possible and triple checked that that is what would be ordered. I was given a price, which I felt to be rather reasonable, and the rifle was ordered. In that time I've called the store three times. The first was about two and a half months or so in to the order, just to see if there was any word. I told them I expected it to take some time, as BM was out of M4 barrels. The second time was about two or three weeks or so ago, a return call because I had a message from the shop asking if I 'still wanted the rifle'. I informed them that yes I definitely still did, but didn't ask anything else. Early this week I called, asking if they might have any idea when a run of barrels might be made, and was told that it had come in some time in the past few days. I dropped by the shop, and informed them I was here for the rifle. Now, the entire day the only thought running through my head was 'I'll BET it's got a brake on it'. Low and behold, waiting for me is a nice 14.5-inch M4 profile barrel with a rather hideous Mini Y-comp brake. I informed the clerk that this was not what I had ordered, and he apologized immediately, and offered me two choices...I could take the gun as is, or they would be happy to send it back and reorder the rifle. I opted to reorder, and the clerk wrote a new sales slip with 16-inch NO BRAKE in very clear lettering. I was a bit miffed, but it's a perfectly understandable incident and the clerks were quite curteous and efficient about the whole thing. I was informed that the person who usually handled BM orders was not in, but he would be back in a few days and would definitely take care of it. Now here comes the trouble. I am a very paranoid person...so when I got home I called up Bushmaster Customer Service, and asked if it would be possible to check on the order. I wanted to find out if it was an error on the shop end or the BM end. I gave my FFL name and location, and what was ordered, and everything seemed in order. The found an order that coincided with my purchase date and specifics - XM15 E2S M4 with 16" M4 profile barrel. The CS rep immediately apologized for the delay, that they have not yet had a run of M4 barrels, and that it would be at least a month until they would. I mentioned the situation, and the CS rep informed me that the order they had was open and active....as in as far as BM was concerned the firearm was not completed and never shipped from them. Now.....can someone with more experience with ordering/shipping firearms (this is only my second) please clue me in as to what just happened, and what would be the best thing to do about it?
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 3:59:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:10:24 PM EDT
I wanted to have the 16 inch M4 profile barrel, the full 16" without any muzzle brake.
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good luck trying to get it in that configuration. you can get heavies w/o a break all day long but an m4 is a 14" barrel with a break or comp on the end. someone will have to take a 16" heavy barrel and cut that special notch for you. i doubt bushmaster will do this.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:11:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: Well if I'm understanding this right, You should have taken the rifle and then taken it to a gunsmith and have him remove it.
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I could, 'cept it couldn't be to just any smith because I'd need to have another brake welded on, as the barrel HAS to be 16". If I were going to have one put it, I'd most likely get one from Kurt's, but I didn't want to have one on in the first place, and it would bother me that I'd have to spend two ways shipping and cost of part/smithwork, all to end up spending more money for what I did not request. The question is - why did they tell me that the rifle I ordered came in, when it was A) not the rifle I ordered, and B) the rifle ordered had not even been completed by Bushmaster? I'm somewhat miffed at this misrepresentation of product....
I've heard that BM (Bowl Movement ?) and Colt are backed up with their barrel being shipped to us common folk. Go back and get it or wait even longer. Or Try a gun show and find one there.
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Yep...s'what Bushy told me. Gun show? In New Jersey? 'least you got me laughing!
Sorry for your disappointment. But get a Colt instead. They are trouble free!!!
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Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series are considered Assault Firearms as per 2C:29-1(w)(1) and as such are pretty much nono's. There are a few of the target rifles out there, but I'm looking for a post-ban M4 clone for now.
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:15:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2002 4:15:56 PM EDT by hard-case]
Originally Posted By 308wood: good luck trying to get it in that configuration. you can get heavies w/o a break all day long but an m4 is a 14" barrel with a break or comp on the end. someone will have to take a 16" heavy barrel and cut that special notch for you. i doubt bushmaster will do this.
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All I'm looking for is this in A3 with carry handle: [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2x14m4my.asp[/url] but with this barrel assembly: [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/pbbl16m4a.asp[/url] I would hope that if BM sells the barrel assembly, that they'd be willing to put one on a rifle (so long as it's legal)...
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:18:36 PM EDT
My personal experience is that the Bushmaster departments don't intercommunicate very well. My story. A friend of mine (really really, NOT ME!) has a DCM model. Well, he had some trouble with the trigger assembly, so he sends it back to Bushmaster. Couple of weeks pass and he gets one of those slips in his mailbox saying come to the post office, you've got mail... So he goes to the post office and there are TWO boxes from Bushmaster sitting there. No biggie. Maybe they don't ship uppers with lowers, or something. So he takes them home and yes, you guessed it. He opens them up and there in one is his repaired DCM (which works nicely now) and in the other, a BRAND NEW DCM, mags and all. My friend waits several months for Bushmaster to realize their error, but they never do. Since my friend didn't need 2 DCM's, he sold the new one to me for $800, which I happily paid. So I really wasn't surprised when I saw your post. Bushy makes a hell of a rifle, but if I was in their upper management group, I would be doing a full round of quality audits and then I would kick some a**es. Companies go out of business for doing lesser sh** than that. -legrue
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:22:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: Well if I'm understanding this right, You should have taken the rifle and then taken it to a gunsmith and have him remove it.
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And then he'd have had a 14" barrel and an all expenses paid (except legal of course) trip to club-fed because of failure to follow NFA rules.
Sorry for your disappointment. But get a Colt instead. They are trouble free!!!
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They sure are, if you buy an older one without the damn sear block or their hideous oversized firecontrol pin parts. Yuk! I love how people defend Colt when Colt doesn't give a damn about us non-LEO/Military folks anymore, and hasn't for some time. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:25:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2002 4:32:51 PM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By 308wood:
I wanted to have the 16 inch M4 profile barrel, the full 16" without any muzzle brake.
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good luck trying to get it in that configuration. you can get heavies w/o a break all day long but an m4 is a 14" barrel with a break or comp on the end. someone will have to take a 16" heavy barrel and cut that special notch for you. i doubt bushmaster will do this.
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Just an FYI, but Bushmaster makes a 16" M4 profile barrel. [IMG]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/pbbl16m4a.gif[/IMG] It's 16", has an M4-like profile, and comes with no muzzle brake. You can read all about it here: [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/pbbl16m4a.asp[/URL] Edited to add that it's been in their paper catalog for the last year at least. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:34:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 4:59:59 PM EDT
I didn't say they didn't make it. I just said it will be very hard to come by.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 3:11:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By legrue: My personal experience is that the Bushmaster departments don't intercommunicate very well. My story. A friend of mine (really really, NOT ME!) has a DCM model. Well, he had some trouble with the trigger assembly, so he sends it back to Bushmaster. Couple of weeks pass and he gets one of those slips in his mailbox saying come to the post office, you've got mail... So he goes to the post office and there are TWO boxes from Bushmaster sitting there. No biggie. Maybe they don't ship uppers with lowers, or something. So he takes them home and yes, you guessed it. He opens them up and there in one is his repaired DCM (which works nicely now) and in the other, a BRAND NEW DCM, mags and all. My friend waits several months for Bushmaster to realize their error, but they never do. Since my friend didn't need 2 DCM's, he sold the new one to me for $800, which I happily paid. So I really wasn't surprised when I saw your post. Bushy makes a hell of a rifle, but if I was in their upper management group, I would be doing a full round of quality audits and then I would kick some a**es. Companies go out of business for doing lesser sh** than that. -legrue
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To me this wasn't an issue of Bushmaster doing anything wrong....they have not even finished the rifle that was ordered for me. It's still waiting at the factory and has not been shipped...which hits the core of what I'm really trying to find out. The more I think about this, the more disturbed I get. Is this normal and acceptable practice for a gun shop? To me it feels that there is VERY little difference between this and a bait and switch routine. They informed me the rifle that had been ordered from Bushmaster had arrived. Now, if this were a matter of 'oh, it was our mistake, we didn't specify clearly on the order a 16" full barrel', or 'well, we ordered it that way, but Bushy sent us the wrong piece', then it wouldn't bother me. That kind of this happens. To me it seems they took a standard XM15 E2S M4 from who knows where and tried to pass it off as what I had ordered. Is that acceptable practice, and would I be justified in completing this purchase and never giving this place my business again, or am I overreacting?? I don't mind when things get screwed up, but I do take offense to being snowjobbed.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 7:00:13 AM EDT
Hard to say, HC. I do know BM is backed up on 16" M4 profile barrels. I've been waiting on an upper since February, and I've called them every two weeks since April.
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 7:26:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/31/2002 7:27:41 AM EDT
Could it be that they confused you and your rifle with somneone elses? After all, it had been a few months.
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