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Posted: 5/28/2002 2:55:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: I remember my Grandfather ran a grocery store in Crowell, Texas. It was just after WWI and it was a very modest grocery store from the beginning. He had five ladies in town, mostly widows, who baked bread which he sold in his store. He always remarked that the bread was the best he'd ever eaten and my Grandmother was the best cook in the County (sez he!), so this bread must have been great! A cityslicker from Dallas came to see him in 1930 and told him that he could make more of a profit by selling Mrs Beaird's Bread, which was machine made and sliced, for a lot less than he could buy it for from the 5 ladies who made bread for him. My Grandfather refused the man's offer, but another grocery store took the offer and was soon selling Mrs Beaird's Bread, with all its newfangled, highfalutin, advertising. Well, what with the Great Depression having hit and his prices being undercut by these new products, etc., my Grandfather went out of business and the 5 ladies went on relief. As soon as this occurred, the other grocery raised the price of Mrs Beairds Bread to what my Grandfather used to charge for the handmade bread, which everyone admitted was much superior. What does all this have to do with FFLs and the fees they charge for handling transfers? I have no earthly idea! I just wanted to talk about my Grandfather! [:D] Eric The(ThereIsAMoral,FigureItOut!)Hun[>]:)]
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Eric .I'll tell what it has to do with selling guns,it is the fact that dealers can not survive on transfer fees and the Idiots who only want to pay what they see the the gun for in shotgun news are going to be in for a very crude and rude awakening,You see guys the point is this the dealer pays rent the dealer pays insurance ,he pays all kinds of overhead so that when you want or need a gun he will be there,if you keep dealing with these internet whores on your gun purchases you will find sonned than later that you might have to drive 1/2 a day to go and pick up that new rifle and you will pay a lot more for it,as soon as the number of FFL's goes down the price of the guns will go up. Shot gun news was never intended to be put out for the general public ,it was supposed to be for the industry people,some how it has becaome a barromiter for what people think they should pay for the gun they want,BULLSHIT!!!! You put your time and money into a business and see if you like people to come in and tell you they want to order a gun from some whore-FFL in another state ,you guys are fucking yourselves and can't see it ,the only thing you can see is the great deal thats in front of your nose. The dealers in the country that i have talked to are real close to getting together and seeing what can be done about the way business is being done,if that happens you will see a big change real quick,and you know what ,you will deserve the high prices you are going to pay. You guys forget one thing ,you can't legally move a gun from one state to another(SALE) without an FFL's help. If they flat out refuse to do transfers what do you think will happen?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 3:19:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 3:20:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy: If they flat out refuse to do transfers what do you think will happen?
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In a free market economy, someone with a better mousetrap or more willing to accomodate customers' needs will step in and fill the void. In my observations, dealers doing transfers for customers is a good way to gain repeat business for non-transfer sales. I know I'm willing to toss more business to the dealer who's willing to work with me when I need him to transfer a gun from an out of state seller. Of all my guns, only 3 have been purchased through strictly flat fee transfers. That dealer has sold me a lot more guns off the shelf.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 3:30:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 3:36:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 3:52:29 PM EDT
Originally posted by jrzy: Shot gun news was never intended to be put out for the general public. It was meant for the public, It came out before FFLs' existed. Get your facts strait. If it weren't for GCA 68, we would all be buying thru the mail!
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 3:56:16 PM EDT
Our club has several members who are FFL's and will do transfers for a small fee. We also do group buys on powder and bullets, as well. Heck we even get stuff from Brownells and Midway at dealer cost! Most FFL's I know of make there living in some other business. The FFL is strictly a sideline. Hardware stores, convience stores, even a photography studio! There are also a few kitchen table FFL's that I know of. I dont care if a dealer makes some money. I dont expect to pay exactly what I see in the shotgun news, or on a website.There is nothing wrong with making a profit, but there is something to be said about taking someone to the cleaners! If I like a gun that a dealer has in inventory, and it is a bit more than what they are going for in the shotgun news, I will buy it. I dont have the hassle of ordering the thing, I dont have to pay shipping, FFL, etc. Besides, it is instant gratification!
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:00:13 PM EDT
I'm kind of curious as to how many gun dealers would pay MSRP or even 10% over dealer invoice for a new car. Do FFL holders shop for deals and drive bargains or do they just pay list or advertised prices?
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:01:03 PM EDT
I am lucky enough to have a great FFL dealer in Phoenix. Lone Wolf Trading Co sells firearms far less than anyone in town. Sure some other dealer will advertise a special every now and then, but day to day they are not able to beat them. The only thing I have had to use the FFL transfer for was pre-ban and discontinued weapons that they are not able to find.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:03:37 PM EDT
As I noted on the other topic which started this thread... I don't sell hardware, I don't have a range and transfers are not my primary business. I am a firearms dealer, I buy at dealer price and sell for a profit, except in the case of prebans where there is no such thing as dealer price. For known customers I will, as a matter of courtesy, receive private transaction firearms for the cost of a background check and file fee. The exception being those who would want to order firearms directly from a wholesale supplier at dealer price. I still manage to offer firearms at less than manufacturers retail because I keep my overhead as low as possible. I charge enough to make a living and stay in business. The reality is there is not a gun market like there was twenty years ago. Even the largest stores don't get the sheer volume needed to operate on a 10% markup. Smaller dealers like myself have even less activity. The point made by jrzy is a valid one. Don't believe me? Ask 1gunrunner why he isn't renewing his FFL. There are fewer and fewer FFLs. First the Clinton Administration made getting and operating more costly and difficult. And then customers conditioned to buy from kitchen table dealers will not support the ones that remain. If there was not the 68 GCA we could all order direct and this would be mute. If you could still get a FFL for $40.00 and run it out of your kitchen this would also be a mute sissue. But neither is the case.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:08:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer: I'm kind of curious as to how many gun dealers would pay MSRP or even 10% over dealer invoice for a new car.
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Considering cars go for about $40-60,000 dollars nobody NEEDS to earn 10%. Guns go for far less. Why don't you compare houses next?
Originally Posted By Boomer: Do FFL holders shop for deals and drive bargains or do they just pay list or advertised prices?
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For me I try to buy from the few wholesalers that honestly represent their product in terms of condition, etc. I also try and stick with the ones who actually have the items IN STOCK. For those reasons I don't get guns from internet supply houses. I have my FFL on file with well over 100 sources. I use about 6 regularly.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:08:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy: I'll tell what it has to do with selling guns,it is the fact that dealers can not survive on transfer fees and the Idiots who only want to pay what they see the the gun for in shotgun news are going to be in for a very crude and rude awakening,You see guys the point is this the dealer pays rent the dealer pays insurance ,he pays all kinds of overhead
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And the dealer wants to pay all his overhead on half a dozen gun sales a month. When he should be selling that many guns, at a fair price, per day. It is better to make $1.00 profit on one hunred guns than $100.00 profit on one gun.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:12:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: And the dealer wants to pay all his overhead on half a dozen gun sales a month. When he should be selling that many guns, at a fair price, per day. It is better to make $1.00 profit on one hunred guns than $100.00 profit on one gun.
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Once a very valid argument. Problem is nobody does 100 guns a day anymore. The gun market is dead, guns are bad remember? Even the largest stores do nowhere near 100 in a week let alone daily. I try and operate somewhere in the middle. If my prices are so low they do not support the business and I lose it, how does that help? A business must support the operator or you don't have one.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:19:41 PM EDT
[i]sigh[/i]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:25:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2002 4:29:58 PM EDT by BallisticTip]
Originally Posted By M4Madness: I have bought 7 firearms from out-of-state sellers found on the internet in the last 9 months. All were firearms that I could not find locally. I do not ask my FFL holder to do transfers on any firearms that he personally stocks or has access to.
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Same as above I allways ask first can you get me this firearm or have in stock ? And when he responds no, but will do a transfer for you, from another FFL. If you find what your looking for. I get what I want and he makes some $ on transfer, we both win !
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:25:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2002 4:27:44 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:28:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:32:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By AR15fan: And the dealer wants to pay all his overhead on half a dozen gun sales a month. When he should be selling that many guns, at a fair price, per day. It is better to make $1.00 profit on one hunred guns than $100.00 profit on one gun.
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You do not have an FFL. You have never had an FFL. You have never tried to make money selling firearms/related equipment. You have never been in a business of any type. I can tell, as your comments reveal you to be so full of crap your eyes are brown. Good for you. [:)] Just so you know--it takes at least an hour per firearm to order it, receive it, process the paperwork, have guys fondle it, buy it, then process it out. This is on top of all the other b.s. involved in having a business. Do you work for $1.00/hour? Why should a gun dealer? Remember, and this seems to be the original point jrzy was trying to make--when the dealers are gone, we're all screwed, per Federal law, specifically the GCA of 1968. Then you will really whine. Edited to fix punk-shoe-a-shun.
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Actually, I believe this was Klintons' original intent with his changes in the law!
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:33:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2002 7:27:45 PM EDT by QCMGR]
Did grandpa* call his customers idiots for wanting different flavored bread? Did he go for weeks without bread but take their money as a deposit? Did people walk around for a half hour while grandpa was showing his buddies how good the bread, (the same bread the people pre-paid to get and were going to pick-up) was? How about selling his buddies bread when he said he was out but charged the people extra to "find" some bread" so they could eat. No wonder he went out of business. [red]*Disclaimer: For purposes of this post I am not literally referring to EricTheHun's Grandfather, but the implied analogy of the shop owner to his customers.[/red]
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:35:32 PM EDT
I'm willing to pay a little more at the local shop for the convenience. Didn't realize how important the store was until it was "Out of Business" for a couple months. I guess that I'm not sure if this discussion revolves around small business owners, or just people licensed to sell firearms, but to me there is nothing like the barber shop like banter and atmosphere of a little ol' gun shop. The "gun market is dead"? I realize that firearms get lots o' bad press and are disgusting to many, but is this really the trend? Steyr, you are an FFL guy, aren't you? Has this been your experience? I've seen somewhere on the web, maybe at the ATF site, a spreadsheet of guns produced, per year, by manufacturer. I guess that I didn't pay attention to a decline in production, if there was one. I'll try to pull up some statistics, I guess.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:37:35 PM EDT
That's all fine what you all are saying, if I am going to Steyr as the shop owner. He is a nice guy and knows something about guns. I bet I would get advice about what he knows, and even let me hear what he thinks, if I wanted it, each clearly IDed by him as each. He would not tell me what I need gun to buy right now (which he can't sell) for $100 over shotgun news list when it wasn't what I wanted. He would not insult me or my wife when I came in, either by ignoring us or actually ordering us around. He would not keep some crap hole dirt shack. He would let me see what I wanted to see. He would not charge a single mom $20 for a $7 walmart box of 9mm hardball as some self defense round. Dick Williams of Saginaw, Michigan? That's one FFL I can hardly wait to go bye bye. I actually called an okay FFL on the phone from his door the second and last time I was there and got insulted again. Local don't mean good, it means close.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:40:14 PM EDT
Happyshooter: Jay's in Clare is good, and it sounds like it is also pretty close.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:40:28 PM EDT
I don't have any problem with a dealer making a living by adding a markup on what he sells. It's the American Way (tm). If somebody walks into your shop and states that they will only pay the price advertised in Shotgun News, you do have the option of telling them why you can't sell at that price and still stay in business. You understand that, right? I've seen Shotgun News for sale in the local bookstores for at least the last 15 years (I really didn't look for it prior to that). If Shotgun News wasn't meant to be read by the general public, then why the hell do they sell it to us? Trade publication my ass. I have "subscriptions" to a least four different real trade publications relating to my business, and I guarantee you won't find one of them on the rack of the local newsstand. They really are meant solely for the trade. And I don't pay a dime to receive these magazines since I'm in the trade. Can you say the same for Shotgun News? Take your problems up with the publishers. I heard rumors (not saying it's true or not, it's just what I heard), that many dealers were happy when Klinton started his Stalin-like purge of "kitchen table dealers". It meant reduced competition for those who had to pay the overhead cost of a storefront. You know what? Tough sh!t. If you can't compete, too bad. Competition from others should drive you to excel in your field, not bitch to your customers. I've also heard that many manufacturers won't deal directly with these same kitchen table dealers, but instead choose to sell to "real" dealers. Fine. I've got no problem with that at all...until the "legitimate" dealers start to bitch and moan about the unfair advantage of the little guys. At that point, who really has the advantage? You want to form a gun dealers union and jack-up prices to punish your horrible customers? Fine again. But realize that somebody will always be happy to take your customers' money, particularly if you don't seem to want it.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:40:36 PM EDT
You're not actually hinting to buy firearms at Wal-Mart are you? I would rather pay twice the price not to be treated like a criminal. They won't even let you carry YOUR firearm out of the store, give me a break. As a new FFL I have basically said screw title one shit, I try to stick with NFA stuff not as much " but shotgun news sells them for BLA BLA BLA". John, Dane mfg., FFL/SOT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:45:28 PM EDT
Jay's in Clare is good, and it sounds like it is also pretty close.
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We got my wife's CCW there. They are pricey but she got exactly what she wanted from a big selection and they let her take her time, offering what they knew whan asked but not pushing. Bare's in St Charles is also good, but limited. The Long Shot in Saginaw's ghetto is cheap for transfers and orders, but only stocks glocks and CMP M1s. It also is a no go on hot summer evenings (he closes before dark), some BS but not a lot. Duncan's in Bay City is an awesome indoor pistol and rifle range. His selection is okay and prices are high. During theme days his selection of the maker's product jumps through the roof and his prices come down (ie. glock day, S&W day) Trying out the guns is free on those days.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:46:45 PM EDT
I travel 50 miles over forest service roads, one way, to by my guns and wall-mart is closer. Screw wall-mart!
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:50:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:56:17 PM EDT
I had thought about opening a gun store until I talked to a couple of store owners,both told me they make about 25 to 35 dollars per gun sale. I don't see how they live. I will look into some other business to open. Walt
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 4:59:06 PM EDT
Happyshooter I have been going to Cliff at gunfinder.net for the last two years. I drive to Hemlock and he will make arrangements around my schedule. The best part? He will get you exactly what you want with no hassles. If you can put up with their bullshit, Guns Galore in Fenton has awesome prices. They beat Jay's hands down. If it is on the shelf I go to Fenton. If I have to order, I call Cliff.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:01:40 PM EDT
Thanks for the heads up. I shoot at Field and Stream out at Hem Semi, and shop for red oak at Barn Door (more expensive wood gets bought down 23 aways)
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:02:50 PM EDT
Thank God that's what you meant, and I agree 100%. There were two reasons I became a FFL, one of them was when I went and bought a 10/22 from Wally World and was just amazed at the procedures of a firearm sale. I can't believe anyone would go through that shit to save what, 20-30, hell even 100 bucks. I look at it as if you were to get married and let the caterer take care of your old lady on the wedding night. John
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:08:07 PM EDT
There are fewer and fewer FFLs.
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If that's the case then there will be less competition, and consumers will end up paying more to the fewer number of FFLs. (Or is the gun business exempt from the normal laws of supply and demand...)
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:18:35 PM EDT
Supporting your local FFL is fine and dandy. But, for the serious addicts like me, the internet and a $10 transfer fee are the way to go. Besides, I have yet to find a gun shop dealer that has even remotely reasonable prices and/or is even half way friendly. The local pawn and gun, the only gun store in town, was charging $700 for an SAR-1 this fall, and threw a fit when I asked if he did transfers. Screw that. I'll take the friendly folks at Aimsurplus any day.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:26:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:43:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MP906: Supporting your local FFL is fine and dandy. But, for the serious addicts like me, the internet and a $10 transfer fee are the way to go.
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Though not as active as I once was probably still I'm a 'fairly' serious addict. I buy mostly from the internet, pay a $15.00 transfer fee and have my FFL clean and inspect each weapon I receive for another $25.00.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 5:52:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By MP906: Supporting your local FFL is fine and dandy. But, for the serious addicts like me, the internet and a $10 transfer fee are the way to go.
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Though not as active as I once was probably still I'm a 'fairly' serious addict. I buy mostly from the internet, pay a $15.00 transfer fee and have my FFL clean and inspect each weapon I receive for another $25.00.
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Good job atleast you are giving the guy a chance to serve you by the inspection and cleaning,I suspect you could clean and inspect your own weapon and it is nice of you to throw the guy the extra business.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 6:20:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2002 4:04:35 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
My Grandfather went out of business for the same reasons that anyone else went out of business during the Great Depression/ My Father told me that during the Depression invariably some poor fellow would come into his store and get his family some groceries, maybe $4-5 dollars worth. When it came time to pay, the poor man would say that he had no money, but that he had some .410 shotgun or .22 rifle that he could trade for the groceries. My Grandfather would tell him no, but then always relent and allow some busted, worthless rifle or shotgun to make do for the groceries! He would tell my Father to put it in the back with the others and Dad would go back to the storeroom and put the weapon into a barrel that was chock full of other rifles and shotguns, rusting away. Why? Because my Grandfather was a Christian, pure and simple. After he closed his grocery store, he went down the street and worked until the day he died as a clerk at the other fellow's store. But he was well loved in the community, served as the President of the Local American Legion, was always a delegate to the American Legion Conventions, was chosen as an Elder in the Church of Christ there in Crowell, and when WWII came, he was proud to see his son go and fight in the South Pacific, while he and my Grandmother went to Grand Prairie, Texas, to work at Consolidated Aircraft making B-24 Liberators. After the War, he resumed being a clerk at the same grocery store. When he died, folks from three counties came to his funeral to bid him farewell! Now, [u]that's[/u] a Grandfather! Eric The(WhateverHeLackedInBusinessSkillsWereMoreT­hanMadeUpForInDepthOfCharacter!)Hun[>]:)] Edited because I understand what was meant!
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 6:30:41 PM EDT
It has been my sad experience that 3 dealers out of 5 would rather lie than eat, don’t know nearly as much as I do about firearms, and could give a crap less about their customers. And a large proportion of the whole lot are just plain stupid. Out of maybe 20 dealers within 25 miles of my house I will not deal with but maybe 4 of them. I am sorry if that offends someone but that has been my experience.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 6:53:23 PM EDT
Well, I've tried to give my business to local FFL's. But have had very bad luck in doing so. In fact, I've gone out of my way to give them business, but to no avail. Here are a few examples. I went to a local dealer who had a few Maadi AK's. I told him at the time that I wanted a Romanian SAR-1 and asked if he'd order one for me. Now I'd bought a Bushmaster from him a year before and didn't mention to him that I knew where to order one from, as I was more than willing to pay a little extra to help supporth the local business. Well this local shop owner/FFL, went into to this tirade about how he hated ordering guns for people and how evil shotgun news was. I swear he didn't shut up for 5 minutes. Needless to say I walked out. Another time I had a local class three dealer who tried to sell me what he said was a factory Bushmaster rifle that was actually some kind of no name upper slapped on a Bushmaster lower. He probably had less than $600 in the rifle and expected me to pay the price for a real Bushmaster. Luckily I knew how to tell the difference. I know for a fact that many other people have been suckered by him. So now I just go to Bass Pro Shop in Columbia, MO for all my needs. They are always happy to help out, and have friendly staff. I'd pay them more than they ask for transfers just because of their good business. So preach all you want, but too many FFL holders around here just aren't worth dealing with. Believe me I wish it wasn't so.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 7:13:19 PM EDT
I'm about 50/50 on WalMart vs FFL purchases. There are some items that WalMart can't/won't sell. Small retailers should stick to those items if they want to succeed. If WalMart stocks Rem700ADL's at bargain basement prices, why bother stocking them? All of the FFL's around here seem to stock the same crap I can buy at WalMart. I want to see Steyr & Tikka bolt actions, and other fun toys when I go to an FFL, not the same old Remchester crap that's in the WalMart carousel, along with a motley collection of broken down side by sides and 1 triple priced MAK-90! Also, a shocking number of small retailers haven't taken advantage of web sales. There's a whole world out there waiting to buy ammo and other gun goodies from you; only a fool limits himself to selling in his own backyard. You don't even need to have the best price, just a good one coupled with visibility and good customer service. Look at Eric the ammoman. His prices are not always the lowest on the web, but his good customer service, reasonable prices and good marketing have earned him success in his business. Lets face it, the FFL's getting forced out of business are generally bad businesspeople who refused to adapt.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 7:13:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: Well, the numbers of FFLs is certainly declining, and the closure rate of gun shops in the PRK is absolutely alarming (though with the laws, I can certainly understand it). -Troy
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I can think of 2 that have closed since I moved here (PRK) less than 2 years ago. OTOH, the closest one to me offers zero service, sells everything new at full-tilt MSRP, asks outrageous prices for used guns and reloading components, and will not do transfers period. I instead choose to use a 'kitchen table' guy who's about a 120 mile round trip from me.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 7:15:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By AR15fan: And the dealer wants to pay all his overhead on half a dozen gun sales a month. When he should be selling that many guns, at a fair price, per day. It is better to make $1.00 profit on one hunred guns than $100.00 profit on one gun.
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Once a very valid argument. Problem is nobody does 100 guns a day anymore. The gun market is dead, guns are bad remember? Even the largest stores do nowhere near 100 in a week let alone daily. I try and operate somewhere in the middle. If my prices are so low they do not support the business and I lose it, how does that help? A business must support the operator or you don't have one.
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There's one store in central Ohio that must sell at least 100 guns a week -- Vances Shooters Supply. Every time I go there, even on weekday mornings, they're crowded, and during a half hour visit I'll see two or three people filling out 4473 forms. If they're averaging three sales an hour over a 45 hour business week (closed Sundays and Mondays), that's well over 100 guns a week. This store isn't typical since they have a GREAT location in the middle of a metro area (no competition within a ten mile radius), but it is an example of at least one store that's doing a lot of volume.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 7:21:06 PM EDT
EricTheHun: I was referring to the assumed analogy between the shop owner and his customers. No offence was meant to your grandfather. It appears from your post your grandfather was much like mine. A good hardworking man.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 7:21:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2002 7:21:57 PM EDT by LotBoy]
I support my local FFLs by buying guns from them!
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 7:21:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Just so you know--it takes at least an hour per firearm to order it, receive it, process the paperwork, have guys fondle it, buy it, then process it out.
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And only a moron orders guns one at a time. How sucessful would Walmart be with your business model? Try buying in volume for a change and advertising for a fair price that no gun nut will pass up.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 7:54:05 PM EDT
First off I bought a .22 bolt action for my wife at Christmas at Dick's Sporting Goods (they where the only ones who had it in stock others couldn't get it in time) and I couldn't walk out of the store with it because "the Mgmt are afraid I might go postal" but I did have my .45 and two full mags open carry. As for supporting local dealers if you have a good one definatly if not don't. Mine is great for those in NC Personal Defense in Garner great prices and good guys. Besides you can watch his son shoot he is 16 and on the USPSA World Shoot Team.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 8:14:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 8:43:15 PM EDT
Hey beekeeper, we could use your experience over at... [url]http://www.full-auto.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=31[/url] It is our FFL forum.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 8:52:03 PM EDT
Here is my .02 I flat out refuse to buy a post ban Bushmaster shorty for $1100 from my "now local" FFL when I know the dealer makes money selling them for $699.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 9:10:12 PM EDT
I take a different approach to large purchases...vehicles, guns, vehicle and gun accesories. I will not pay retail for the purchase, period. I take great pride in finding what I am looking for for as little $$ as posssible. This philosphy has to do with my finances, not the well being of my local car dealer or FFL dealer. Finding AR15 accessories locally can be difficult, and when they are found prices are really high. Same with a quality car/truck. I tend to keep my personal vehicle for about 1 year, sometime more, sometimes less. I buy my car/truck at dealer auctions and pay wholesale. I drive the car/truck for a year and sell it for what I have into the vehicle or make a few $$ on the sale. Patience is the best way to buy firearms for me. Most FFL's I come across except a few don't tell me the truth, won't do transfers from out off state and have pretty outragous prices. An FFL dealer is no different to me than the guy who repairs a car or sells golf clubs. I demand the best service possible at the best price, because there are more repair shops, golf shops and gun dealerships out there. I will not support any business just because I have an interest in what they sell, if the owner/operator doesn't act like he/she is fair and truthful my business goes elsewhere. As for SGN, I look at it, but don't hold FFL dealer to the prices. I also don't believe that any dealer is buying firearms from an add in SGN trying to make $$. Dealers buy their new firearms from ditributors. Believing that SGN publishes "invoice pricing" is just as ignorant as a car dealer selling cars for at or below invoice. Profit is built in to prices, even sale prices or SGN prices or "$1 below invoice prices." The only person that is held accountable for my finances is me, so unless my FFL wants to kick in a few $$ for my mortgage I won't pay a premium for a bad/rude service.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 9:17:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2002 9:18:17 PM EDT by mleaky]
Double Tap on accident.
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