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Posted: 5/27/2002 12:02:03 AM EDT
Do any of you have problems firing semi-auto pistols? Every female and most small framed males in my Police Academy class had malfunctions while firing our Glock 17s. Apparently due to their "Limp" wrist, Not allowing the weapon to cycle via recoil. They had a "Stovepipe" jam at least once every few rounds. I can't imagine being in Law Enforcement and knowing that your weapon is probably going to malfunction, hell I would buy a revolver!!! Anyway I was curious if anyone other than my Academy class has had this many problems firing a semi-auto pistol?
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 12:05:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 1:45:52 AM EDT
one fix for this is to use hotter rounds...+p or load your own to the max safe load. there are people who can stiffen their wrists and there are peopel who dont have enough strength to do it. you have to work around it glocks are notorious for being succeptable to limp wristing. if you can get lighter springs id say go a lb or 2 or 3 lighter as another alternative.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 2:14:02 AM EDT
Never had any problems with that myself, and I'm not a very big guy. 5'11" and 170 pounds. I agree with DoubleFeed about strength training. Tell 'em to get some racquetballs and squeeze them to help with grip strength. It also seems to me that for some people, "limp wristing" is more psychological than physiological. I had somebody at a local range tell me that trying to "control the recoil from a pistol" could break my wrist. Apparently, someone had passed that sage advice on to him at some point in his life. I nodded and went back to shooting without any malfunctions, while he continued to bitch about the constant problems he was having with "this POS pistol". I swear, the muzzle of his pistol must have risen a good foot-and-a-half every time he managed to actually get a shot off. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 3:59:37 AM EDT
The only time I have had stovepipes with my G19 was when I was practicing three shot quick draw point shooting from the hip. I think this was due to too much wrist torque and not enough at the elbow. All it took was some practice to correct the form and the stovepipes went away.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 5:23:35 AM EDT
A good reason to keep your truck gun a medium to large caliber revolver... (the .357 to 44 special range) imo of course.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 5:36:45 AM EDT
My pet pistol is a G-29 Glock subcompact 10mm. I have very tiny hands and wrists, extremely small boned. I don't do any strength training whatsoever, other than everyday work. Never had a glitch with this gun yet. No stovepipes, no FTE, nothing. It can recoil like a kicking mule with full house loads. I love recoil. I think your fellow academy students must be using bad technique. Tell them to "hold it like they MEAN it." Not like the "pink pistol" team. Should help.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 6:30:11 AM EDT
Usually this can be overcome by sufficient practice so the shooter will become more familiar with his firearm and what it takes to make it work for him or her. If you happen to be teaching someone with this problem some good advice is this; Relax the gun hand and get a good comfortable grip. Wrap the opposite hand around your gun hand and squeeze as if you want to crush the grip. Keep the elbow of the gun hand pointed down. This approach does a couple of things. It allows greater trigger control for the gun hand by taking away the distraction of stiffening the wrist. The grip of the the opposite hand controls the wrist on the gun hand. The elbow pointed down allows for the proper dispersion of recoil by allowing the gun to come straight up rather than whipping back.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 6:40:52 AM EDT
Schv: I am 5'6" and weigh about 145#. When I first got my Beretta 92FS, I had this problem at first as well. When I was told that I was absorbing the needed energy from the slide by "limp wristing," that was motivation enough to make me want to stop. Wanting to eliminate this problem, I asked to be coached on proper grip, and the problem went away. I also purchased a "Gripmaster" and began using it to increase my hand strength. I haven't had one problem since. [:D] -White Horse
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 10:01:10 AM EDT
A few years ago a female firearms instructor at FLETC told me that Glocks are sometimes a problem for female shooters. Apparently the Glock’s polymer frame, being lightweight, doesn’t have the inertia of an aluminum frame. A heavier aluminum frame compensates a bit for shooter’s who are limp-wristing by itself resisting the backward push of the recoiling slide. For shooters just on the edge of having a problem, this small difference in weight can be an issue. Admittedly, the Glock’s high grip probably compensates a bit for limp-wristing - unlike say a Sig, with it’s low grip and pronounced muzzle flip. However, I’ve tried to induce a malfunction with a Sig by lightly holding it with simply my thumb along the backstrap while firing it, with no success. Agree with the earlier post that a hotter round (or possibly just a heavier bullet) might help with the problem. (Hannah’s lack of any problems might be due in part to the ferocious round she is firing!) If the students can’t get their handguns to work reliably in the relaxed atmosphere of the academy, they are certainly going to have problems on the street.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 11:30:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2002 11:32:14 AM EDT by GSG9]
Originally Posted By freeride21a: one fix for this is to [red]use hotter rounds...+p or load your own to the max safe load[/red]. there are people who can stiffen their wrists and there are peopel who dont have enough strength to do it. you have to work around it glocks are notorious for being succeptable to limp wristing. if you can get lighter springs id say go a lb or 2 or 3 lighter as another alternative.
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freeride21a, I don't think that bit of advice will work for law enforcement nor should it be taken by anyone looking to prevent an FTF in a defensive situation. Prosecutors would eat up the fact that you were using hand made man killers! but that's just my opinion Jake
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 12:47:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 1:33:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GSG9:
Originally Posted By freeride21a: one fix for this is to [red]use hotter rounds...+p or load your own to the max safe load[/red]. there are people who can stiffen their wrists and there are peopel who dont have enough strength to do it. you have to work around it glocks are notorious for being succeptable to limp wristing. if you can get lighter springs id say go a lb or 2 or 3 lighter as another alternative.
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freeride21a, I don't think that bit of advice will work for law enforcement nor should it be taken by anyone looking to prevent an FTF in a defensive situation. Prosecutors would eat up the fact that you were using hand made man killers! but that's just my opinion Jake
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very true, i have been told not to use reloads for defensive situation, but there are factory +p and +p+ out there and those would not be considered home brewed super ap incendiarey tungten penetrators with fire control radar built in. the reason i mentiond loading to the max is i have a very small framed female friend...4'6" or so and probly 95lbs and she shoots glock competitions using her 19..she loads her own slightly "hot" to counter for her limp wristing..it works.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 2:58:56 PM EDT
Jesus, just get a real gun, like a Beretta 92FS. [}:D] Mike
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 3:54:49 PM EDT
Wait so these people want to be cops but there wrists aren't even strong enought to make a 9mm function correctly, I think they might want to look into a different line of work.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 6:09:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2002 6:15:27 PM EDT by Nekkid80]
Originally Posted By 199: (Hannah’s lack of any problems might be due in part to the ferocious round she is firing!)
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Personally I wouldn't put her in the "candy ass shooter," category either. I'll stab at this one. Make sure the chambers are clean on the pistols. Don't just scrub the chamber with the nylon brush that is packed with the pistol. Get a cordless drill and chuck a .45 cal bronze bore brush in it. Run it into the chamber dry, make sure all the carbon and powder residue crap is all out of there. Then use some solvent on the brush and repeat. Patch out the crap. Examine the chamber for roughness or corrosion that is holding up extraction. Polish the chamber as needed. With a clean chamber some of the inertia will not be spent trying to rip a case out of a sticky chamber. [soapbox] Amnother option is to be the big meany and tell them to "hold that gun harder than a well digger's auger, or your going to get shot!" If you are using aluminum cased CCI Blazer ammo to save a buck, STOP. Use something with a brass case. Blazer aluminums are notorious in my neck of the woods for NOT functioning well in Glock .40 S&W. Hope this helps. Keep us up to date. Doug Point this thread out to your instructor.....if your not the instructor.[;)]
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 6:19:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 9:51:53 PM EDT
I finally saw this for the first time this weekend. Went shooting on Sat. Lady friend of my Dads went with us and was shooting her 5906 Smith. She tried to shoot my Dads G17 and this happened. I told them she was limp wristing it, they didn't beleve me cause it didnt happen when she was shooting the Smith. Go figure.
Link Posted: 5/27/2002 10:00:51 PM EDT
My wife, (who is athletic and not petite) had the same problem when first firing my Glock17. After this happened 5 or 6 times, I told her what the problem was and she corrected it. The problem went away. My point being that it has little to do with 'strength' and more to do with 'technique'. If the cadets don't know *why* it's jamming, it's much less likely that they're going to figure out on their own how to stop it from happening. Do them a favor and let 'em know what's going on.
Link Posted: 5/28/2002 12:21:56 AM EDT
Hey HANNA I'm like you as I like to know the gun I shoot is powerful at both ends. The first shot out of my Thompson 10mm was a jam,and it wanted some kind of back resistance from me. After that no problem,I have other 1911's same with them. It doesn't take a big man or woman to shoot these guns ,just a knowledge of what is required to make the action work. With my weatherby 300 mag 40lbs recoil,you live with it or tame it down Until you get in the 454 pistol range its not a gender problem. Bob [8D]
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