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Posted: 5/24/2002 4:39:54 AM EDT
[size=4]We Kant Get There from Here[/size=4] [b]Our European problem.[/b] By William R. Hawkins President George W. Bush is off to Europe, visiting Germany, France, Russia, and Italy in connection with a NATO summit in Iceland. The chances of this trip improving U.S.-European relations are about as bleak as they were at the start of May when Bush held a summit with leaders of the European Union. The trans-Atlantic trade war continues to escalate. French President Jacques Chirac on May 17 criticized the United States over its "protectionist" policies to support steel, wood, and agricultural production. Yet, the EU has imposed the same safeguard tariffs on surging steel imports as the U.S., and has a very protectionist agricultural policy supported by massive subsidies and a scare campaign against American biotechnology. So there was more than a whiff of hypocrisy in the EU's recent notification to the World Trade Organization that it may impose sanctions on U.S. products including steel, textiles, and fruit. The EU has also threatened tariffs against $4 billion of American exports unless the United States complies with a WTO demand that it change how it taxes exporters. And the European Commission wants a WTO challenge against the increased agricultural subsidies contained in the 2002 farm bill Congress passed, and which President Bush signed May 14. * * * Writing in the June issue of Policy Review, Robert Kagan argues: It is time to stop pretending that Europeans and Americans share a common view of the world, or even that they occupy the same world. On the all-important question of power — the efficacy of power, the morality of power, the desirability of power — American and European perspectives are diverging. Europe is turning away from power...It is entering a post-historical paradise of peace and relative prosperity, the realization of Kant's [b]"Perpetual Peace."[/b] Immanuel Kant wrote his essay "Perpetual Peace" in 1795, heavily influenced by the philosophy of Jean-Jacques Rousseau. The wars of the French Revolution had already started, and would run to 1815. The two centuries that followed exhibited more perpetual war than peace, but did not stop utopian thought. [b]The Kantian doctrine contains the three basic principles at the core of all liberal models of world order: national disarmament, global free trade, and a world federation government.[/b] The goal is to make it impossible for any nation or people to possess the means to act on their own. [b]In Kantian doctrine, unilaterialism is a cardinal sin and the concept of national interest is a heresy.[/b] * * * With the Soviet Union gone, many Europeans now see the United States as "the last Superpower" blocking a Kantian future. If American freedom of action can be curtailed through economic pressure and international organizations — especially the WTO acting as a Kantian world federation, then Europe will be free to pursue its idea of a "European social model" and work to impose it on the rest of world. See remainder of article at:[url]http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-hawkins052302.asp[/url] Eric The(NotSurprised)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 4:55:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:01:08 AM EDT
C'mon, [b]Dave[/b], I didn't mean to spoil your day, but I think George W. is fighting this European tendency to one world government. And this War on Terrorism will soon be known simply as the [b]'US War on Terrorism'[/b], 'cause we appear to be the only ones serious about stopping future Sept 11ths! Cheer up! Bush is on his way back to being considered a buffoon in Europe. Which suits me just fine! European approval is the very last thing the US needs at this point. Eric The(Unilateral)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:05:01 AM EDT
Eric - GREAT article. I especially liked this part....
Writing in the June issue of Policy Review, Robert Kagan argues: It is time to stop pretending that Europeans and Americans share a common view of the world, or even that they occupy the same world.
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SOO true.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:14:06 AM EDT
It really concerns me that Bush and Powell seem to be such cheerleaders and lapdogs for the UN. True, Bush has withdrawn the US from the International Criminal Court, but I really get mixed signals from these two. [>:/]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:15:05 AM EDT
Those European pacifist pukes make me want to vomit my guts up! Did anyone see all those German protesters yesterday? Where do they get the right to say our war with terrorists is cruel or unjustified? We were brutally attacked by these fanatics who threaten to attack again. What the hell are we supposed to do, sit back and let them destroy us? Maybe these pukes will change their attitude if it's their nation and people that are killed by these scumbags next time. Then again they would probably just sit and take it or blame it all on us. And for all the people that are suddenly becoming Bush bashers, I ask you to think back to the time that Clinton was in office. We are in a much better position as far as our interests than we were. But you can't expect Bush to be able to cater to every thought that comes into our heads. He may not be perfect but he is a hell of a lot better than what the alternative would have been.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:18:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: It really concerns me that Bush and Powell seem to be such cheerleaders and lapdogs for the UN. True, Bush has withdrawn the US from the International Criminal Court, but I really get mixed signals from these two. [>:/]
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I get the real signal from Bush, and the mixed one from Powell. Sure I have not agreed with everything that Bush has done so far, but Powell is a true monkey, or clown, or a monkey with clowns coming out of it's butt making little balloon monkeys.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:23:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:27:59 AM EDT
Post from garandman -
Eric - GREAT article.
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Thanks, [b]garandman[/b], although I must admit it was the title 'We Kant Get There From Here' that led me to it in the first place! Immanuel Kant is/was/always will be a total schmuck, IMHO! Eric The(Anti-Kantian)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:35:47 AM EDT
Post from thedave1164 -
Eric, I just don't know what to think about GW, I know what I want to think, but I am afraid of a big let down. I don't expect him to be as conservative as I, but screw the compassionate conservatism crap.
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You are more correct than I'd like to think about on this subject. I know he's stealing the thunder from the DEMOS, but how can he continue to do that without becoming a DEMO-lite himself?
People need to get some back bone and do what is right. Life isn't easy or fair.
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I intensly dislike most of his advisors, even Condi Rice has been a big letdown! I had such high expectations from her, but she's become a Madelyn Al(but-not-too)bright-lite herself. And Colin Powell? I'm delighted that he's been overshadowed by his betters, such as Donald Rumsfield!
Now I am really having a sucky day.
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OK, that does it, you have the official Hun Oath that henceforth I will not post NWO-ish stuff on the Board before Noon! Eric The(Honest)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:43:20 AM EDT
It would not surprise me to see the EU and their cronies let the terrorists have their way with the U.S. Just so they can be around to pickup the pieces, or so they think. They are scared by the U.S. and our attitudes and they are scared by the Muslim extremists. So what better for them to let us fight it out.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:43:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Madelyn Al(but-not-too)bright-lite
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Bwahahahahahahaha! [beer]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:52:55 AM EDT
And what is to be the European treatment of the 13 Palestinian terrorists that have been disbursed to their shores? While they were in Cyprus at that luxury beachfront hotel, I kept seeing photos of them lounging around on the balconies, displaying large PLO flags, and talking incessantly on the cell phones in their possession! Cell phones? What were they doing? Arranging for some last minute suicide bombings? I can assure you that once they get to their final destinations in Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and whatnot, they will no longer be treated like wealthy American tourists! Nosiree! They will be treated like European royalty! Book it! Eric The(Sassy)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:52:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2002 6:16:52 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
It is time to stop pretending that Europeans and Americans share a common view of the world, or even that they occupy the same world. On the all-important question of power — the efficacy of power, the morality of power, the desirability of power — American and European perspectives are diverging. Europe is turning away from power...It is entering a post-historical paradise of peace and relative prosperity, the realization of Kant's "Perpetual Peace." Immanuel Kant wrote his essay "Perpetual Peace" in 1795, heavily influenced by the philosophy of Jean-Jacques Rousseau. The wars of the French Revolution had already started, and would run to 1815. The two centuries that followed exhibited more perpetual war than peace, but did not stop utopian thought. The Kantian doctrine contains the three basic principles at the core of all liberal models of world order: national disarmament, global free trade, and a world federation government. The goal is to make it impossible for any nation or people to possess the means to act on their own. In Kantian doctrine, unilaterialism is a cardinal sin and the concept of national interest is a heresy
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Kant was an idiot. National Disarmament (hmm, that could be debated) GLOBAL FREE TRADE (that is contradictory with respect to their more fundamental philosophies , such as NOT ALLOWING OWNERSHIP OF PROPERTY). The Kantian doctrine is a national policy designed for ALL other Nations except for the one espousing it. In other words, any nation who wishes to follow this doctrine will quickly find themselves at the mercy of those nations which don't. Most leftist philosophy is such that it will render its bearer impotent to live on the Planet Earth. While helping those who want POWER to RULE!. Hay lets get real shall we, If they didn't want power they wouldn't be in government in the first place. KANT GETS "PERPETUAL PEACE" When he succeeds in suckering everybody with his stupid ideology into surrendering their MIND and their Ability to survive. A WARNING TO ALL YOU KIDDIES IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. You will be tought many such things such as these in the Interests of Brotherhood,Multi-culturalism, and ONENESS with the Secular-Humanistic GODHEAD---GOVERNMENT, Arm yourself with counter knoweldge whereever such may be found. When I was a freshmen in College I went to the library and went to the computer and typed in socialism over 100 titles on the shelves. I typed in Capitalism and was met with 16 titles. Ben
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:18:22 AM EDT
Kant is resting in 'perpetual peace'...
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:19:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2002 6:39:15 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
Furthermore:
The goal is to make it impossible for any nation or people to possess the means to act on their own. In Kantian doctrine, unilaterialism is a cardinal sin and the concept of national interest is a heressy
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Lesson #25: Lets take apart this statement and allow our massive brain power, that is an Attribute of Man to work on it. THE CONTRADICTION: "THE GOAL" -That presupposes a "PURPOSE" and also must be MET or MADE into reality. "to make it impossible for any nation or people to possess the means to act on their own" --How does their "PURPOSE" purport to meet this end. If a person cannot have free will to act in their own best interests(and that is a basic requirement of survival and the sustaining of LIFE) how do they seek to eliminate this. THere is only one way (FORCE). "In Kantian doctrine, unilaterialism is a cardinal sin and the concept of national interest is a heressy" So they say that national interest is a heressy, but they are presumming to do just that in parts 1 and 2. So that is a contradiction. And that contradiction leeds to Bloodshed and Murder and Tyranny and we have witnessed many such occassion where these types of philosophies have been the down fall of many a nation. The Roman Empires corruption, The Rise and Fall of the Soviet Union, and the inability of European nations to create wealth. And so we return to the First part which is National Disarmament and who do they want to disarm? They will not be able to disarm themselves because they will have to render all nations subjugated to their WILL!! So no the Arms will not disappear, at least not those of this Utopian WORLD Nation. So it must be that they favor disarming everyone but themselves. hahahahahahahaha [puke] Ben
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:21:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Immanuel Kant is/was/always will be a total schmuck, IMHO! Eric The(Anti-Kantian)Hun[>]:)]
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You are FAR too kind to E. Kant. [:D] He's a troglodyte of the first order. jarhead - Yer right about Bush and moreso Powell re: the UN. Bush has poked the UN in the eye a few times, but Powell is in bed with tehm. Its always been my sense that fighting men / military types are among our nations most sensible folk. What happened to Powell?? I doubt he walked into the State Dept. building, and suddenly turned "left." Anyone have any background info on Powell?? Or does anyone think he's just putting on a good show, but really dislikes the UN???
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:36:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:40:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Its always been my sense that fighting men / military types are among our nations most sensible folk. What happened to Powell?? I doubt he walked into the State Dept. building, and suddenly turned "left."
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Powell has always had the stink of politics about him, even when he was in uniform. Maybe Bush expected him to provide a backbone to the State Department, but in my opinion, he has sunk in and assimilated well to the mushy corporate culture over there at Foggy Bottom.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:52:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2002 6:58:34 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
I don't know who powell is either. I have seen him in action once and I thought that he allowed himself to be taken advantage of. But then I thought that he was Military all the way. I don't know if I still believe that. He is so mild mannored I think it detracts from his abilities. I keep trying to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, there is something about him that is definately likable. One thing is for sure, upon reflection I see that clearly he speaks far less then he is capable of. I think he has this ingrained ability to not step outside his bounds at all. He merely speaks to the question without espounding on his answers and I have never seen his own ideology spill into his talks. However that is his public profile. In the gulf war there were several altercations between Powell and Swartzkopf some of which were because Powell , IMO, did not state Swartzkopf ideas with as much forcefulness as Swartzkopf would have. I do not think that Powell would make a good president and I think that he would fall prey to the same failing that was Eisenhower's downfall. I think Powell is susceptible to politics and would be quickly rendered ineffectial by that. But what do I know?? I think that Powell is the perfect hand to 1/10th of Bushs doctrine. In other words, I think he fits his role quite nicely and although not a leader suits leaders well because of his ability to follow orders. That is the way that I view it. But I don't know if it is accurate. He is definately something of an Enigma. Ben
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:59:33 AM EDT
Powell was brought up by Frank Carlucci, one of the "one-worlders" from the Council on foreign relations". Our State dept. has been run by them (CFR) for over 50 years. A look at "whos who" in the inner circle of our govt., will show the overwhelming majority are CFR members. This does not change regardless of the party in office. Most congress critters are also members, as were most of our delegation to the founding meeting of the UN....
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 7:01:45 AM EDT
You know, I think the entire State Department should be given their walking papers. They have become such pin-headed uber-geeks and hangers-on, that they have totally lost touch with reality in what their country needs from them. The only problem is - with whom would we replace them? Colleges are mass producing idiot savants nowadays. They may have [u]one[/u] area down well, but they are complete idiots in anything that is remotely outside their fields of (what might pass for) expertise. We are being hoisted on our own politically correct, self-esteem enhanced, petard! And don't think that wasn't planned, either! Eric The(VeryCynical)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 7:07:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2002 7:13:22 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
BEN WROTE:
. I do not think that Powell would make a good president and I think that he would fall prey to the same failing that was Eisenhower's downfall. I think Powell is susceptible to politics and would be quickly rendered ineffectial by that
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Someone Wrote:
Powell was brought up by Frank Carlucci, one of the "one-worlders" from the Council on foreign relations". Our State dept. has been run by them (CFR) for over 50 years. A look at "whos who" in the inner circle of our govt., will show the overwhelming majority are CFR members. This does not change regardless of the party in office. Most congress critters are also members, as were most of our delegation to the founding meeting of the UN....
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Ben Wrote:
One thing is for sure, upon reflection I see that clearly he speaks far less then he is capable of. I think he has this ingrained ability to not step outside his bounds at all. He merely speaks to the question without espounding on his answers and I have never seen his own ideology spill into his talks.
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I see it clearly now, If the US ever wants to be subjugated to the UN then Powell as the "Leader of NO Leadership" is the perfect person to deliver us there. He has no will of his own, he has no vision that is his own. That is it. That is who powell is. If the US ever elects powell the Amount the US rellies upon the UN will sky Rocket. Perhaps even to the point where the US looses her own sovereignty. Thats it oh my, It won't even be because he wants that to happen. It will be that way because of Powells psychological makeup. Holy Shit. Ben
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 7:14:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: You know, I think the entire State Department should be given their walking papers. The only problem is - with whom would we replace them? Eric The(VeryCynical)Hun[>]:)]
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Me, you, and Garandman.....[bounce]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 7:16:45 AM EDT
I can assure you that once they get to their final destinations in Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and whatnot, they will no longer be treated like wealthy American tourists! Nosiree! They will be treated like European royalty!
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If that involves them going to the guillotine or being slammed into concrete pillars at high speed, I'm all for it. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 7:19:27 AM EDT
Post from liberty86 -
Me, you, and Garandman.....
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Well, now, the United States [u]will[/u] rule the world with that [i][b]troika[/b][/i] in place in the State Department! Eric The(I'mPackingMyBags,Now!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 7:35:20 AM EDT
If you want to see the UN strengthened Elect Powell President of the United States. If you want to see the UN crumble Have Powell elected Secretary General of the UN.
Link Posted: 5/25/2002 8:09:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2002 8:15:29 AM EDT by kill-9]
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Immanuel Kant is/was/always will be a total schmuck, IMHO! Eric The(Anti-Kantian)Hun[>]:)]
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You are FAR too kind to E. Kant. [:D] He's a troglodyte of the first order.
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Boy, you've got THAT right! From [url]http://www.aynrand.org-END Of Object Attempt-
ivism/pobs3.html[/url]: "Kant objects to the fact that man’s mind has a nature. His theory is: identity — the essence of existence — invalidates consciousness. Or: a means of knowledge makes knowledge impossible. As Ayn Rand points out, this theory implies that “man is blind, because he has eyes — deaf, because he has ears — deluded, because he has a mind — and the things he perceives do not exist, because he perceives them.” Just as Kant’s epistemological nihilism sweeps cognition away from identity, so his ethical nihilism sweeps morality — the field of values — away from any enjoyment of life." And from [url]http://www.aynrand.org/medialink/columns/rt100101.shtml[/url]: "The 18th-century Enlightenment was the triumph, in the West, of unfettered rational inquiry, the scientific method, and respect for the sovereignty of the individual. The Enlightenment established a respect for the human mind and codified, in the Declaration of Independence, the individual's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Today's academics follow a different tradition, an anti-Enlightenment backlash that began nearly 300 years ago with the philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who lauded the "noble savage" uncorrupted by civilization. It continued with Immanuel Kant, who declared his intention to "deny reason in order to make room for faith." By the 20th century, Kant's heirs had dropped the second half of that motto. They no longer cared to save religion; they merely wanted to destroy reason. This outlook has reached rock bottom with today's Postmodernists, who condemn science and reason as oppressive agents of the "dominant power structure" and scream that it is "racist" to regard a free society like America as superior to Third World dictatorships." I believe that nearly all of the evils of today have their roots in Kantian philosophy. Troglodyte indeed! -kill-9
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