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Link Posted: 5/23/2002 9:29:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
So Ronald, are you writing these bits with "The High Frontier" open on your knee? Been spending too much time wired on caffeine at a Cal-Tech coffeehouse? Or are you just a Pournelle/Dyson acolyte? Or all three? [:)]
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I am curious, what is wrong with High Frontiers?  Just because it is an older concept that was not pursued doesn't make it invalid.  I really would like to know your take on it's failings.
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 10:11:25 AM EDT
[#2]

I think you misunderstood my comment.  I am all for stellar exploration and colonization.  As you know, one of the largest problems we face with exploration is the fact that we live on a huge gravity well.  It is extremely expensive to get anything into orbit.  Once you get into orbit, travel is easy but slow.  With no gravity, you just need to accelerate a little in the right direction and you will (eventually) get to your destination.  It just makes no sense to use all of this tons of energy to get out our gravity well, just to land on another gravity well.  The moon is not "halfway to anywhere in the solar system" - it is basically a road that goes back to where you came from.  In fact, it is even worse because, unlike here, there are virtually no usable resources.

IMHO, the moon is a "been there, done that" type thing.  It was a good idea to see if anything was there, but there wasn't.  We need to set our sights on other places now, and a stop-over on the moon is just a waste of resources.

Let the Chinese have it, while we check out Mars.
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The moon is at the top of Earth's gravity well.  The gravity well from the moon is a heck of a lot less than the bottom of the gravity well from the earth.  

There are many advantages to building a base on the moon as a starting point to getting to interstellar, or heck, even inner-system planets.  

One of the manufacturing highlights was the concept of using moon soil to create plascrete.  There are also supplies of other heavy metals. Although the biggest supplies of heavy metals are in the asteroid belt or in the big ones that threaten to come too near us.  Which brings another couple of reasons for creating a moon base.  Stabilized telescopes and an asteroid defense system.

Another good reason for being on the moon is the availablity of huge amounts of free energy. This energy could be directed back to earth or space stations in a diffused beam for power, or powering a pulse laser for pushing a vehicle out of the moons grav well and on it's way.

The ISS is a good start, and we need more space stations for research and observation that they are planning on doing.  But much of the heavy work will be done with "ground" under your feet.  Whether that is the moon or an asteroid.

Shipping out into space (which is my fondest dream) involves a long-range multi-faceted plan.  Plan for what you can and improvise for what you can't.

Ciao
Randy
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 11:20:18 AM EDT
[#3]
sffen:

What you have to say is certainly food for thought, but from what I have read we would be better off going straight to our destination or using an orbital station.  The energy required to get off the moon is still significant, and you have to take your fuel with you.  If the moon had something we could use as fuel, that would be another matter.

Does it?
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 11:26:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So Ronald, are you writing these bits with "The High Frontier" open on your knee? Been spending too much time wired on caffeine at a Cal-Tech coffeehouse? Or are you just a Pournelle/Dyson acolyte? Or all three? [:)]
View Quote


I am curious, what is wrong with High Frontiers?  Just because it is an older concept that was not pursued doesn't make it invalid.  I really would like to know your take on it's failings.
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Oh, nothing wrong with High Frontiers. Just wanted to gig ron97ws6. Seems he's read a lot of Pournelle. Wanted to see if he was a sci-fi FANantic. That's all
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 11:26:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
sffen:

What you have to say is certainly food for thought, but from what I have read we would be better off going straight to our destination or using an orbital station.  The energy required to get off the moon is still significant, and you have to take your fuel with you.  If the moon had something we could use as fuel, that would be another matter.

Does it?
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Can you say Solar Powered Mass Driver?

I thought you could...
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 11:32:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Can you say Solar Powered Mass Driver?

I thought you could...
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I can say it, but I am not going for a ride in it!  [;)]
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 11:38:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can you say Solar Powered Mass Driver?

I thought you could...
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I can say it, but I am not going for a ride in it!  [;)]
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Cool, neither would I.  But I think you get the idea.  The moon is for resources.  Sure you can build your spacecraft on the moon, and they would be easier to lauch given the moon's 1/6th earth garvity well.  But if you can get all of the raw materials into Lunar orbit for no fuel cost, then you can build it in orbit, launch from there is even easier.  And from the LeGrange points it is effortless.
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