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Posted: 5/20/2002 6:05:24 AM EDT
Even our great Colin Powells State Department says so!!! State Dept. report discounts Arafat's link to terrorism SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM Monday, May 20, 2002 The U.S. State Department has failed to find evidence that the Palestinian Authority has been engaged in terrorism. A department report released last week said neither PA Chairman Yasser Arafat nor his aides were directly involved in terrorist attacks against Israel. But the report acknowledged that some low-level PA officials were involved in what the report termed "violence," Middle East Newsline reported. "There is no conclusive evidence that senior leaderships of the PA or PLO were involved in planning or approving specific acts of violence," the report said. The State Department report was discussed last week in a closed session of the House International Relations Committee. The committee heard testimony from Assistant Secretary of State William Burns, who was questioned regarding the discrepancy between the latest report and Palestinian documents captured by Israel that linked Arafat and his aides to the financing of suicide bombers. The report covered the period of June 16, 2001 to Dec. 15, 2001. The State Department is required to report to Congress every six months on whether the PA or the PLO are involved in terrorism. Earlier this year, the United States listed the Arafat-aligned Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade as a terrorist group. The report said that neither Arafat nor his aides knew of planned attacks by the umbrella organization dominated by the ruling Fatah party. "While there is no conclusive evidence that the senior PA or PLO leadership approved or had advanced knowledge of planned attacks, the weight of evidence would indicate that they knew of Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Tanzim and elements of Force 17 involvement in the violence and did little to rein them in," the report said. [url]http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/front_1.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 6:12:01 AM EDT
The State Department couldn't find most of the places it talks about with both hands and a Fodor's map. President Bush needs to clean out that den of Arabists soon! And Colin Powell is a joke. Arafat not a terrorist? No evidence? BwaHaHaHaHaHaHa! Eric The(I'dLaughSomeMore,ButIt'sReallyNotFunny)Hu­n[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 6:19:51 AM EDT
But Eric, I thought our state dept. was controlled by jews, surely if they can find no evidence of yasser's links to terror, it MUST mean there aren't any......
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 6:28:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 6:52:38 AM EDT
Arafat does indeed seem dirty to me (not to mention lacking some basic personal grooming skills) But let's take one bit of misinformation right off the table. The USUAL criticism of Arafat is that "his" Hamas organization (and is the other one Al Aqsa, or something like that) routinely carry out terrorist activities, and claim responsibility for them. Now, if yer gonna assume his link with them makes him RESPONSIBLE for their actions, lacking any direct evidence of Arafat's involvement, then let me also throw some hypotheticals at ya. Take the NRA. Assume it morphes into a Tim McVeigh, anarchist cells of anti-gov't radicals, along with the "good" pro-Second Amendment pro rule of law folks. or assume alot (say 1,000 a year) NRA members commit murder, and are convicted of such. lacking any DIRECT evidence that Chuckie Heston is tied to the murders or OK City type of bombings.... ...are you gonna blame Heston for the murders or the terrorist activities?? After all, its "his" organization!!!!! to be logically consistent with you charges against Arafat, you would HAVE TO also blame heston for the illegal actions of some NRA members. I haven't seen any DIRECT ties of Arafat to SPECIFIC terrorist individuals either(just the usual "he started Hamas. He MUST be guilty.") Which is kinda disingenuous from people who CLAIM they beleive INDIVIDUALS, not groups, are responsible for individuals actions. P.S. I STILL gotta chuckle about that "invoice" the Israelis produced where some Arabs "billed" Arafat for wire, bomb making materials, travel etc etc etc. For such a damning piece of evidence, it sure disappeared awful quickly. BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHA ALOL. Yer credibility is shot. How bout I send you a check for the kiddie porn you sent me?????BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHALOL Such is the evidence the pro-Israelists provide us. Laughable, really. Hey, like I say, he prolly is a terrorist rat basdid. But the evidence y'all have provided wouldn't even get you INTO a court of law, never mind a trial. And what I find disingenous is that certain lawyers amongst us KNOW all this, and STILL continue acting as if speculative, circumsdtantial evidence were enuf to convict and execute Arafat. Just trying to provide some perspective. Save your anti-Semitic charges and charachter assassinations for someone who cares what you think. [}:D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 6:56:01 AM EDT
Post from liberty86 -
But Eric, I thought our state dept. was controlled by jews, surely if they can find no evidence of yasser's links to terror, it MUST mean there aren't any......
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Actually, the State Department has always been inimical to Israel's wellbeing, as there have always been too many Arabists in it since the beginning of US involvement in the area. They were flabbergasted when President Truman decided to recognize Israel, after years of them lobbying against such a move. So when Mr. Sharon brought all the accumulated seized evidence of Arafat's complicity in the recent terrorism against Israeli citizens, the very last people who would want to accept the obvious conclusions would be the State Department! Their attitude is one of 'Hey, we gotta go to cocktail parties in Georgetown with our Arab friends, how will this look to them?' Eric The(TheyCanGoToHell!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 6:58:19 AM EDT
This "revelation" from the same general who szomehow couldn't find Saddam Hussein with all the resources of the United States military. No surprises there...
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:04:06 AM EDT
"Tell me lies,tell me sweet little lies..." Yep, that's the tune I'm hearing.. Of course, there probably IS no conclusive evidence.. Last I knew, it was kind of tough for dead people, let alone dead fragmented people to give testimony.. Meplat-
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:25:52 AM EDT
Powell must not get the papers. [url=www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/03/14/usat-brigades.htm]Terrorist Says Orders Come From Arafat[/url]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:45:49 AM EDT
Well, [b]Jarhead_22[/b], so that's it. These terrorists are cleverly using newspapers to crow about their successes and whose orders they are obeying because they all know this: [b]In Washington D.C., the only papers that count are the Washington Post and the New York Times![/b] Period! Meanwhile.... [img]http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2002/03/14terror.jpg[/img] what would you give for a remote control switch on this guy's belt? Eric The(Blammmm!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:51:01 AM EDT
Jarhead - Think outside the box with me for a minute. Take what we DO know. These are a certainty, facts which NO ONE disputes (no one credible anyway) 1. Terrorist homicide bombers are almost universally against the existence of israel. No possibility of them even sitting down with the Israelis to discuss peace. 2. Arafat HAS sat down with the Israelis, ostensible for negotiating a peace treaty. Whether he really wanted a peace treaty or not is irrelevant. 3. The terrorist types would view even Arafats willingness to be in the same room with the Israelis as counter productive to their goals. Given these indisputable facts, what's the ONE THING a terrorist could do to make SURE Arafat's meeting never accomplished anything? He could lie and say Arafat ordered Hamas to carry out terrorist activities. Even if it weren't true. Think about it. Things are NEVER what they appear - ESPECIALLY in the Middle East. You MUST admit that this is a possibility at least.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:20:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Take the NRA. Assume it morphes into a Tim McVeigh, anarchist cells of anti-gov't radicals, along with the "good" pro-Second Amendment pro rule of law folks. or assume alot (say 1,000 a year) NRA members commit murder, and are convicted of such. lacking any DIRECT evidence that Chuckie Heston is tied to the murders or OK City type of bombings.... ...are you gonna blame Heston for the murders or the terrorist activities?? After all, its "his" organization!!!!! to be logically consistent with you charges against Arafat, you would HAVE TO also blame heston for the illegal actions of some NRA members.
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Not quite the same thing. I have yet to see evidence (or even an allegation) that Heston or the NRA funneled money or supplies to McVeigh. Thus is the weakness in your comparison. I have also never seen Heston advocate violence against the US government or create an illegal destructive device. I think that Arafat has done many of these things.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:49:40 AM EDT
Think back to the peace negotiations with the Viet Minh in the early seventies. Their goal wasn't peace, it was victory. But they went to the peace table and stretched things out and played games so that they could appear sympathetic in the eyes of the world. Meanwhile they were getting in all the supplies from the USSR that they could through Haiphong harbor and ferrying them down the Ho Chi Minh trail , and torturing US personnel who fell into their hands. Did the Viet Minh actually abide by anything agreed to in the talks? Only when Nixon bombed the daylights out of them, and promised that that was all that could be gotten by breaking agreements. I have said before that Arafat is either: 1. In charge of the "Palestinian" movement and doesn't care to stop the bombings, or 2. A powerless figurehead put in place to act as a decoy and lightning rod while the real power players act under the RADAR. Arafat is the most civilized face that the Arab world can put on the intifada, and that is an indication of the type of people behind it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:52:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 8:59:02 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By Torf:
originally by garandman: ...are you gonna blame Heston for the murders or the terrorist activities?? After all, its "his" organization!!!!! to be logically consistent with you charges against Arafat, you would HAVE TO also blame heston for the illegal actions of some NRA members.
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Not quite the same thing. I have yet to see evidence (or even an allegation) that Heston or the NRA funneled money or supplies to McVeigh. Thus is the weakness in your comparison. I have also never seen Heston advocate violence against the US government or create an illegal destructive device. I think that Arafat has done many of these things.
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Well no analogy is EVER gonna be perfect. But you "think" Arafat has done these things?? You "think" or do you "KNOW"?? THAT is my point. a LARGE percentage of the charges currently levellled against Arafat are based on what people "think / suspect/ allege / have heard rumored" and NOT on ANY factual evidence. Again, I throw back to that "invoice" that supposedly linked Arafat to the homicide bombers. Laughable. Shoot, I could bill you for the Brinks job. PROVES NOTHING. And you are WRONG about allegations of Hestons / the NRA's ties to Tim McVeigh, radical militia types, even murders. The antis throw out these claims EVERY DAY. Yet you DON'T believe heresay claims against the NRA, but willingly beleive them about Arafat. that's understandabe, as you have a vested interest in seeing justice done re: the false claims against the NRA. You have no such vested interest with Arafat. All the MORE reason, for the sake of justice and the truth, you should examine carefully heresay allegations against a dirtbag like Arafat. The contrast of your unwillingness to beleive heresay against the NRA vs. your willingness to beleive heresay against Arafat makes you appear like you beleive what you WANT to beleive. its YOUR credibility at stake. it just seems like you pro-Israelists are gonna make me do your thinking for you. I'd much prefer you do it yourself. [}:D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:01:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 9:04:19 AM EDT by Torf]
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Torf: ...are you gonna blame Heston for the murders or the terrorist activities?? After all, its "his" organization!!!!! to be logically consistent with you charges against Arafat, you would HAVE TO also blame heston for the illegal actions of some NRA members.
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Not quite the same thing. I have yet to see evidence (or even an allegation) that Heston or the NRA funneled money or supplies to McVeigh. Thus is the weakness in your comparison. I have also never seen Heston advocate violence against the US government or create an illegal destructive device. I think that Arafat has done many of these things.
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You got the board code all wrong. No flames or anything, but it makes it sound like I wrote what you wrote and vice-versa. [:)] Ahh. I see you fixed it! Thanks! I don't 'know' anything specific. I only go by what the people I trust say. I don't trust Al Sharpton, so anything he says is crap. I do trust Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, so what they say is worthy of more trust. I do remember a small 50-ton shipment of weapons from (Iran?) that Arafat was heavily involved with. Seems to me that the scrutiny ought to be on Arafat, not our own administration. Besides, I am not interested in proof. Pals dancing in the streets as the WTC fell was reason enough for me. What did Arafat think about that?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:05:45 AM EDT
Trust me, [b]garandman[/b], as a 'pro-Israeli', which is also the equivalent of someone who gives a fig about Western Civilization, I will never ask you to do my thinking for me. Trust me on this one. [b]Ever.[/b] But you do carry on about the innocence of the Palestinians and their main man, Yasser 'I Can't Believe I Fooled Yet Another Gullible Christian' Arafat! Well, have at him. He's your baby now! Eric The(TakeGoodCareOfHim)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:14:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: ...that's understandabe, as you have a vested interest in seeing justice done re: the false claims against the NRA. You have no such vested interest with Arafat. All the MORE reason, for the sake of justice and the truth, you should examine carefully heresay allegations against a dirtbag like Arafat. The contrast of your unwillingness to beleive heresay against the NRA vs. your willingness to beleive heresay against Arafat makes you appear like you beleive what you WANT to beleive. its YOUR credibility at stake. it just seems like you pro-Israelists are gonna make me do your thinking for you. I'd much prefer you do it yourself. [}:D]
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Well what do you expect. The NRA is a noble American organization. I want them to suceed. Arafat and the PLO is hardly a noble organization. Arafat is an America hater, a dictator, and a worthless piece of crap. I want to see him roast in hell (from heaven). How's that for cold reason, logical thought, and discernment? Comparing Arafat to Heston is ridiculous at best, and utter disrespect at worst. Why do I need to have an interest in Arafat? Why does my support for the NRA equate with support for a worthless distatorship? I am only defending the good name of the NRA, and not getting all 'Pro-Israel' here. I know how you feel about that whole thing, and besides that 1 issue, I have never ever disagreed with you before.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:34:47 AM EDT
Arafat was a terrorist, murderer and scumbag long before he became "Thug in Chief" in Ramallah.
Ambassador Cleo A. Noel Jr. and George Curtis Moore - do you remember these names? You should. Ambassador Noel and Moore were among a group of men seized and held hostage by Yassir Arafat’s Black September terrorists during a reception at the Saudi Embassy in Khartoum. Their lives hung by a thread, a thread that Yassir Arafat ordered cut. His words ordering the execution of these top American officials and a Belgian diplomat were recorded by the Israelis who gave the tape to the State Department and President Nixon in March 1973. This was later confirmed by Gen. Ariel Sharon. Cleo A. Noel Jr. and George Curtis Moore were among a group of men seized by Black September terrorists during a reception held at the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum [Sudan]. The terrorists demanded the release of Sirhan Sirhan, the Palestinian assassin of Robert Kennedy, as well as terrorists being held in Israeli and European prisons. President Nixon refused to negotiate. The tape was of conversations between Arafat in Beirut and his thugs in Khartoum. Execute the diplomats, ordered Arafat. The terrorists obeyed, machine gunning the unarmed, hapless Noel and Moore. They also killed a Belgium diplomat. The authenticity of the tape was verified in U.S. laboratories by both the State Department and the White House.
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[url]www.arlingtoncemetery.com/canoel.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:41:01 AM EDT
Sorry, [b]Jarhead_22[/b], but I tried to use that cold-blooded murder of the two US diplomats on [b]subsailor[/b] to try and prove to him that Arafat was a much worse POS than Sharon, but to no avail! Apparently, no matter how many Americans you murder, you are still not the murderer that Ariel Sharon has been shown to be! Yeah, right! Eric The(Exasperated)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 9:44:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: But you do carry on about the innocence of the Palestinians and their main man, Yasser 'I Can't Believe I Fooled Yet Another Gullible Christian' Arafat! >]:)]
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Eric - NOT ONLY do I have to do your thinking for you, I have to do your READING for you. here, and repeatedly elsewhere you try to make me out as if I'm defending Arafat. But in this thread alone (and in countless other threads, and innumerable other posts as well) I've called Arafat: 1. A dirtbag 2. A rat basdid 3. Prolly a terrorist (more than our own state dept calls him) 4. Dirty Yet you persist in this defamation of my charachter. leading me to think: 1. Either you are incapable of reading my intentionally dumbed down sixth grade level posts 2. its time for me to get a lawyer and get a "cease and desist" order against you. Frankly, I wonder HOW you expect me to stay your friend, when you INCESANTLY lie about me, and defame me. Why should I??? give me ONE good reason. I wonder how Ed Avila and the MIA Goatboy allow you, A moderator of all things, to constantly lie about me. You don't even bother with smiley faces anymore. Just bold, outright lies defaming my charachter. I've cut you QUITE a bit of slack, but you keep doing it. Enuf is enuf. If you have ANY moral integrity, you'll knock it off. IF.....
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:01:19 AM EDT
"But let's take one bit of misinformation right off the table. -De G Man We could but then we would have to remove your latest post :) Arafat is a terrorist always has been a terrorist and will always be a terrorist... Adolf Hitler never personally killed any Jews in death camps..but he ordered it done...was he not guilty... Mafia chiefs dont bloody their hands are they guilty..If a banker knowingly funds a narco terrorism operation is he guilty...certainly.. According to Pres Bush...we are at war with terrorism...anyone who aids abeds plans finances renders aid or comfort is a terrorist... BTW did you also root for the VC during Vietnam? Their are more Palys in Jordon than Israel ..but if they get their own country watch the place fill up with more terrorists..and not only will all of Israel be anihilated but with a great victory they will attack more and more Christians throughout the world...they are anti Christian...as well as being anti Jew.. Innocent Palys....yeah right and virgins in TJ to...every one...
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:16:26 AM EDT
9 - Than you for your factually vacant, emotional, irrelevant, pablum post. But I'd like to key in on your slander for a moment.
originally by 9divdoc: BTW did you also root for the VC during Vietnam?
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I wonder how you can sleep at nite assualting someones charachter like that. I wonder how Ed Avila and goatboy can allow that type of charachter defamamtion to go on. I wonder HOW you can expect me to not take that personally. Are you atacking my patriotism? Are you questioning my loyalty to my country? let's hear it. Quit hiding behind innundo as a third grader would and let the WHOLE BOARD hear what kind of person you really are. I realize these types of personal assualts are due to you lack of argument both factually, and skill level wise. I realize they are the last refuse of the logically vanquished and morally corrupt. Are you such a person? if not, why do you use their tactics????
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:27:54 AM EDT
Post from garandman -
NOT ONLY do I have to do your thinking for you, I have to do your READING for you. here, and repeatedly elsewhere you try to make me out as if I'm defending Arafat.
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You are saying that we shouldn't call him a terrorist [u]unless[/u] we have 'garandman-acceptable' proof that he is a terrorist! That, kind sir, is called [u]defending[/u] him!
But in this thread alone (and in countless other threads, and innumerable other posts as well) I've called Arafat: 1. A dirtbag 2. A rat basdid 3. Prolly a terrorist (more than our own state dept calls him) 4. Dirty
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Soooooo, what? You've called me worse than that! And just what do you mean by 'Prolly a terrorist'? You mean that you need [u]more[/u] convincing [u]before[/u] you believe? That, kind sir, is called [u]defending[/u] him!
Yet you persist in this defamation of my charachter.
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If you have good grounds for believing that this fellow Arafat is not a terrorist, then let's hear them. To stick up for my position is not defaming your character in the least.
leading me to think: 1. Either you are incapable of reading my intentionally dumbed down sixth grade level posts
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Please, don't be so hard on yourself!
2. its time for me to get a lawyer and get a "cease and desist" order against you.
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I know that must be a joke! 'Cease and desist' from what? Stating my opinion? Good luck!
Frankly, I wonder HOW you expect me to stay your friend, when you INCESANTLY lie about me, and defame me. Why should I??? give me ONE good reason.
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'Cause I'm a swell guy. Ask around. Anyone will tell you so! We just disagree on this one issue, that's all! I can handle it.
I wonder how Ed Avila and the MIA Goatboy allow you, A moderator of all things, to constantly lie about me.
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[b]Lie?[/b] My opinion as to how I believe you view the Arab/Israeli situation can hardly be considered as a statement of fact. - continued -
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:28:58 AM EDT
You don't even bother with smiley faces anymore.
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They get boring after a while. Besides which, I am earnest when I tell you that I believe that you sympathize much too much with Arafat and the Palestinian cause. You will say that I sympathize much to much with Sharon and the Israeli cause, and, unlike you, I will admit it wholly and completely! I am an unrepentent friend and supporter of Israel! Yes, you heard it here first, folks! [b]I love Israel.[/b] I consider it a 'little America' beset on all sides by powerful and hateful foes who seek its eradication! If I were Israeli, I would be a member of the Likud Party, one of the most conservative and outspoken critics of any peace negotiations with Arafat or anyone like Arafat! Now, how about you? [:D]
Just bold, outright lies defaming my charachter. I've cut you QUITE a bit of slack, but you keep doing it. Enuf is enuf.
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How can this be so offensive to you when Arafat is [u]not[/u] a terrorist, according to you? OK, he might probably be a terrorist, right? But you defend him at the drop of a bernoose, er, hat! What gives? Why so defensive about [u]this[/u] particular POS?
If you have ANY moral integrity, you'll knock it off.
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I tell you what, I won't address any more posts to you, if you don't address any more posts to me. It works on the playground with little children, maybe it can work with us? Or we can continue as we have - it is predictable that I will support Sharon and Israel. It is just as predictable that you will support Arafat and the Palestinians. Is that fair? Eric The(IThinkSo!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:55:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Hey, like I say, he prolly is a terrorist rat basdid. But the evidence y'all have provided wouldn't even get you INTO a court of law, never mind a trial. And what I find disingenous is that certain lawyers amongst us KNOW all this, and STILL continue acting as if speculative, circumsdtantial evidence were enuf to convict and execute Arafat.
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Jesus Christ was probably a great guy, but what evidence do you have to prove he was ever anything more than a rabble rousing, troublemaking son of a carpenter whom the Romans wisely and publicly executed as an example to others? Some uncopyrighted old storybook? You'd need more than that kind of speculation to get me to believe in parting seas, resurrected dead men and seven headed, ten horned monsters. But you apparently put a lot of faith in it. I put the same faith in the demonstrated fact that Arafat is willing to kill innocents to accomplish his goal. I'd love to have a nice steady sight picture on that greasy half-assed mustache of his.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:55:33 AM EDT
You know Garandman, you're right that 2,800,000 Palestinians haven't committed any terrorist acts. But what you haven't included in your tag line is that the vast majority of those Palestinians have allowed terror to be committed in their name without rising up against the terrorists and bringing them to justice themselves. If they would, you wouldn't have to bitch about the Israelis doing it, because the Israelis wouldn't have to. Oh by the way, just cause you've finally really aggravated me, John C. Garand would be insulted that you've used his name as part of your screen ID. How do I know? Because as a teen ager I used to go ice skating in his living room (that's right, his LIVING ROOM). Mr. Garand and his wife never had children, and the coach of our Jr. Rifle team was a friend of theirs, so they'd have us over to skate, and Mrs. Garand would serve us hot cocoa and cookies. The only comment I ever heard from Garand about the Arab - Israeli conflict was that he couldn't understand why the Arabs couldn't leave the Jews in peace in their own country. Maybe it was because as a French/Canadian he understood what it was like not to have your own land and be left in peace.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:10:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: Jesus Christ was probably a great guy, but what evidence do you have to prove he was ever anything more than a rabble rousing, troublemaking son of a carpenter whom the Romans wisely and publicly executed as an example to others? Some uncopyrighted old storybook? You'd need more than that kind of speculation to get me to believe in parting seas, resurrected dead men and seven headed, ten horned monsters. But you apparently put a lot of faith in it.
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My entire life is testimony to the reality of Jesus Christ, that the claims he made of Himself were true. Admittedly, that's a reality only I can experience, but that's why they call it "faith." God gives you a little, and when you do a good job with that amount of faith, He gives ya more. Feel free to ask Him for that first little bit.
I put the same faith in the demonstrated fact that Arafat is willing to kill innocents to accomplish his goal.
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Has that faith changed your entire life? I don't think so. So for discussion purposes, I don't think we are talking about the same kind of faith. And when it comes to matters of the guilt of Arafat as to his specific responsibility in terrorist acts, I think I know you well enuf to know you demand more than "faith" in those areas.
I'd love to have a nice steady sight picture on that greasy half-assed mustache of his.
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Like I say, he has poor personal grooming habits. he's the original "troll boy" . [:D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:24:01 PM EDT
Sorry, [b]garandman[/b], but there are just as many terrorists who have great faith that killing themselves along with a few Israeli women and children will take them straight to Paradise and Allah. You know that I appreciate your faith, but the greater part of the world doesn't. And these Palestinian people who haven't given any thought to doing the same should rise up and put an end to the wickedness done in their name by their own leaders. But you apparently won't be convinced even when they admit it in person, as that fellow that was being interviewed in the article that started this thread. So, it's pretty hard to argue with someone whose mind will [u]not[/u] be changed no matter what the quality of the evidence! BTW, do you think Osama Bin Laden masterminded the Attack on America on Sept 11th? Eric The(WhatProofDoYouHave?[:D])Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:30:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shamayim: You know Garandman, you're right that 2,800,000 Palestinians haven't committed any terrorist acts. But what you haven't included in your tag line is that the vast majority of those Palestinians have allowed terror to be committed in their name without rising up against the terrorists and bringing them to justice themselves. If they would, you wouldn't have to bitch about the Israelis doing it, because the Israelis wouldn't have to.
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I've wondered about this myself. Admittedly, one plausible explanation is that they on varying levels agree with the homicide bombers. meanwhile, back in these United States, the same could be asked of you - why haven't YOU risen in arms against the murder of the branch Davidians, or Randy Weavers wife and baby, or COUNTLESS Constitutional violations in the US today.) Other plausible explanations for their odd behaviour are INNUMERABLE, but I'll give ya JUST a few right here. 1. They don't have NEAR the same technology or freedom of info we have. Likely the Hamas militants have told them the homicide bomber was just peacefully walking down the street, and the Israelis blem up an ENTIRE BUILDING along with the "civilians" inside just to kill him 2. But perhaps the most cconvincing is this - they don't rise up for the SAME reason YOU haven't risen up against abuses by the US or Canadian gov'ts - you have too much to lose to "risk it all" on what you KNOW will ultimately be futile. People do /don't do amazing things when their families lives are jeopardized. And do you really think a HAmas type would let a dissenting Palestinian live??? I bet you didn't even know that tens (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of Bible-believing Palestinians have FLED palestine simply because they are tired of all the killing. Good people, the kind to risk all, have ALWAYS been in the minority. And now they aren't even in palestine.
....as a teen ager I used to go ice skating in his living room (that's right, his LIVING ROOM).
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I've heard about the skating rink in his living room thing. Cool.
The only comment I ever heard from Garand about the Arab - Israeli conflict was that he couldn't understand why the Arabs couldn't leave the Jews in peace in their own country. Maybe it was because as a French/Canadian he understood what it was like not to have your own land and be left in peace.
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And you think you can guess his ENTIRE policy from a SINGLE statement??? Seems to me his statement is MORE applicable today to the Palestinians, as now it is THEY who do not have a homeland, and live in an occupied territory where they CANNOT live in peace.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:40:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 12:50:44 PM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Originally Posted By garandman: My entire life is testimony to the reality of Jesus Christ, that the claims he made of Himself were true. Admittedly, that's a reality only I can experience, but that's why they call it "faith." God gives you a little, and when you do a good job with that amount of faith, He gives ya more.
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So says you. I want proof. You don't have any? You can't prove that Jesus wasn't just a terrorist? I expected better from you.
Has that faith changed your entire life? I don't think so. So for discussion purposes, I don't think we are talking about the same kind of faith. And when it comes to matters of the guilt of Arafat as to his specific responsibility in terrorist acts, I think I know you well enuf to know you demand more than "faith" in those areas.
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I spent six years in the Marine Corps because I believe that protecting this country from people like Arafat is a noble cause. My life has been changed. The tape recording of Arafat ordering the deaths of Ambassador Noel and George Moore is concrete proof that Arafat is a murderer. He is also the "president" of the "Palestinian Authority." He is either running the terrorists or is a decoy and smokescreen for the man who is running the terrorists. That's good enough for me. I think it's very sad and disturbing that it's not enough for you. DaMan would be proud.
Like I say, he has poor personal grooming habits. he's the original "troll boy".
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His grooming habits aren't nearly as meaningful to me as his murdering habits are. [b]Should I take it as some kind of message that you haven't addressed my second and third posts on this thread, even though they're both in response to points you brought up?[/b]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:52:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: ....these Palestinian people who haven't given any thought to doing the same should rise up and put an end to the wickedness done in their name by their own leaders.
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You apply a standard to them that you don't adhere to yourself. why didn't you "rise up in arms" and "put an end to the wickedness" that was done for over 100 days in Waco, culminating ultimately in the death of scores of women and children by your gov't, done in your name?? And since the plaestinians aren't aware of any worthless peeps and mutterring heard in the Hun's home in disagreement with the Waco murders by our gov't., are they justified in finding you complicit in our gov't actions??? Go be an example for them. Move to Palestine, and "rise up in moral indignation" against what the Hamas types are doing. UNTIL you risk losing what they risk losing at the hands of the militaristic hamas types, and you leave the comfort of your American LazyBoy recliner, your words are empty and hollow.
So, it's pretty hard to argue with someone whose mind will [u]not[/u] be changed no matter what the quality of the evidence!
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Produce the evidence. Lemme see it. Something more than "he's associated with Hamas, ergo he's responsible for their actions." (that sentiment AGAIN flying in the face of your supposed beleif in PERSONAL responsibility) The simple reality is you have NOTHING beyond that. its all "evidence" akin to that "invoice."
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 1:03:25 PM EDT
Jarhead - That is the first I've ever heard of Arafat ordering the murders of Noel and George. But it wouldn't surprise me, should all the facts be as they appear. I've already said he prolly is a terrorist. My point is don't tell me he's a terrorist simply becasue he is now associated with an organization that has people in it that commit terrorist acts. Anymore than you can tell me Charlton Heston is complicit in murder if 1,000 NRA members commits murder, or Heston is a terrorist because the antis trying to link Heston with the Tim Mcveigh types. The Noel / George murders do NOt speak to that point at all. Rather, they are EXACTLY the type of evidence I'm looking for - SPECIFIC charges of Arafat's DIRECT involvement in murderous actions. Not the usual "he's linked to hamas, therefore he is guilty becasue of what SOMEONE ELSE does." I'll have to go back to your link, and further study that info. For which let me say "Thank you."
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 1:31:47 PM EDT
Yes, [b]garandman[/b], and Madonna is prolly a whore.[:D] The reason that you did not know about Arafat's participation into the murder of these two US diplomats is that you did not want to know about such matters concerning Arafat. I mentioned it directly to [b]subsailor[/b] on one of those interminable anti-Israeli threads that are so popular, and one in which I believe you took part. But you didn't look at the story or the evidence I presented to [b]subsailor[/b], I believe, because you don't want to discover such crimes being committed by someone you think is 'prolly a terrorist.' Don't make me go look for that thread, just say you didn't believe what I wrote! Eric The(YouSee!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 1:32:14 PM EDT
You're welcome. I eagerly await your post agreeing that Arafat [b]is[/b] a murdering terrorist scumbag, and that he deserves to be put down like a rabid dog.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 1:35:53 PM EDT
Post from garandman -
My point is don't tell me he's a terrorist simply becasue he is now associated with an organization that has people in it that commit terrorist acts. Anymore than you can tell me Charlton Heston is complicit in murder if 1,000 NRA members commits murder, or Heston is a terrorist because the antis trying to link Heston with the Tim Mcveigh types.
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Good Lord, [b]garandman[/b], just look at how far you're willing to go out onto that limb to protect the good name of Yasser 'Prolly a Terrorist' Arafat! [b]If[/b] there were thousands of NRA members committing murder, (1) I would probably resign my Life Membership, and (2) I certainly wouldn't defend the organization if it could be shown that it encouraged these murders! But you don't require the Palestinians to do the same! How gracious! Eric The(Sensible)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 1:40:32 PM EDT
Gee, I kinda hoped this thread would be about how fu@ked the state dept. is (always has been). It seems to me, that our dept. of state is supporting the US "war on terror", with less evidence against any one than the Isrealis have on Yasser. Why do we not hear an out cry about that?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 1:44:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: It seems to me, that our dept. of state is supporting the US "war on terror", with less evidence against any one than the Isrealis have on Yasser. Why do we not hear an out cry about that?
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Could you give us some specifics? Who don't we have evidence against? The Taliban? al-Qaeda? John Suleiman Rashid Lindh? Zaccharias Moussaoui?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 1:48:00 PM EDT
Post from liberty86 -
It seems to me, that our dept. of state is supporting the US "war on terror", with less evidence against any one than the Isrealis have on Yasser. Why do we not hear an out cry about that?
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Easy. Osama Bin Laden kills Americans. Arafat kills Israelis. Oh, I believe that we have all the evidence we need to go after Bin Laden, Moussaoui, and the others. What I can't understand is that others don't think the same about Arafat! Eric The(Obvious)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 2:05:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By liberty86: It seems to me, that our dept. of state is supporting the US "war on terror", with less evidence against any one than the Isrealis have on Yasser. Why do we not hear an out cry about that?
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Could you give us some specifics? Who don't we have evidence against? The Taliban? al-Qaeda? John Suleiman Rashid Lindh? Zaccharias Moussaoui?
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Have you seen evidence that the Taliban knew of the WTC attack? John Walker? Last I knew, it was NOT illegal for a US citizen to take up arms for a foreign power. The Flying tigers, and Francos volunteers come to mind. BTW, Walker was fighting the Northern Alliance, not US troops (there weren't any). It seems clear that Al-Quaeda planned and excecuted WTC, but who are they? Any Arab we catch? Who ever we say they are? Moussaoui at least will get the appearance of a trial. What about the Cuban "detainees"? Any evidence there? (There isn't according to intelligence sources). Other than taking up arms against a foreign power invading Afgahnistan, what are they charged/guilty of? Jarhead, were you around during "Nam? Remember the "spin" put on that? Are we seeing the same battlefield "spin" today?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 2:17:21 PM EDT
All Arafat is trying to do is stay alive. At one time he had the power now he has nothing. When Hamas started bombing he could have done something about it. Now it has taken on a life all of it's own. You can't forget that Hamas is not only Palastian's. Just like all og Bin Ladins troops weren’t Afgan’s. That’s why I say you can't hold all Muslim’s culpable for the ones who hate any one who isn't a Muslim. We are a society of PEOPLE when all of us get that through our heads we might be closer to PEACE. This Sunday a guy comes into the gun club. There is a conversation about what is going on with all this hatred. He sounds in with all them Mother F$&ken Muslims should be killed. Fine he has his opinion, trouble is the junior club is meeting he is saying this in front of his kids and other's. This is what he is teaching his children I'm sure. Reason I say this he takes them outside and has them shoot at BinLadin Targets. Is this the proper things to teach a generation who will need to try for peace and understanding? Tell me when does it end? Will it be when only the wold is back to one-cell animals? It's ok to have these conversations, but maybe if we concentrated on threads of peace and tolerance on the Net we might have another out come for the generations to follow. Just my Thoughts I know it will never happen in my lifetime. Any way the truth is he is still a terrorist because he didn't do nothing and still isn't. He is like a person backed in a corner. Crying for his life Please don't kill me I promise to do this and that. Reality He can't do anything but stay alive at this point.
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