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Posted: 5/19/2002 4:34:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2002 7:14:16 PM EDT by AR-15gal]
Yeah, that’s right. I had to wait 5 whole months for it, but it was worth the wait. My husband got me an M1 Garand. Pretty cool, huh? I had to wait because he spent all that time refinishing the stock for me. Of course he had to do it when I wasn’t around, so it took a while. The numbers check out as a 1941. We took it out to the desert this afternoon to try it out. As I pulled off the first shot, it started sprinkling. By the time I had emptied the clip, it was raining like crazy. We haven’t had any rain around here for months, and it picks this precise moment for a deluge...go figure. Sooooo, we packed everything up and drove out of the rain to another place to shoot. Long story short, it is SWEET! Do I have the greatest husband in the world, or what? Thank you, sweetie!! [:D] [bounce] [:X] [bounce] [:D]
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 4:36:54 PM EDT
Great Present!!!! Congrats. You ought to talk to DVDTracker. He's famous for bump firing a garand. That vid of him doing it looked fun as hell.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 4:39:07 PM EDT
Decent. CMP gun? If so probably a rebuild but still a sweet gun. What make is is? Also pull back the operating rod and let us know what is stamped on the side of the barrel between the stocks.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 4:40:39 PM EDT
Congrats, I would love to see some pics of the refinished stock. Happy shooting [:D]
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 4:42:07 PM EDT
I've seen that vid. I would love to be able to do that. I will need a whole lot more practice before I will even attempt it, though. My standing shots sucked (it's a little heavy for me), but I didn't do too bad from the kneeling position. I'll just have to keep practicing.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 4:49:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Decent. CMP gun? If so probably a rebuild but still a sweet gun. What make is is? Also pull back the operating rod and let us know what is stamped on the side of the barrel between the stocks.
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Oops....I stand corrected. I said it was a 1941, but it's actually a 1943. To answer your questions...it's a Springfield, and the numbers stamped on the side of the barrel are either 18A244 or 1SA244. It's so small, I can't tell if that's an 8 or an S. So what does that number mean? Fill me in, gentlemen.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 4:51:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 4:51:46 PM EDT
Gentlemen [shock] I do not think any has used that term on this site before.?.?
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 4:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2002 4:56:45 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By AR-15gal: Oops....I stand corrected. I said it was a 1941, but it's actually a 1943. To answer your questions...it's a Springfield, and the numbers stamped on the side of the barrel are either 18A244 or 1SA244. It's so small, I can't tell if that's an 8 or an S. So what does that number mean? Fill me in, gentlemen.
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1SA244 means Springfield Armory barrel dated 1944. Given the 43 receiver and 44 barrel this is quite possibly an original gun. Most got rebarrelled during the 50s during the Korean War. "IF" this turns out to be an "original" WW2 production Garand it is worth around $2,000.00, except for the part about the refinished stocks, which would almost cut the value in half. Need more info: Milled or stamped trigger guard? Marking from top of bolt. Lock bar sights? Stock markings behind trigger guard? And markings on side of buttstock? Pics would definitely help.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 5:16:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2002 5:17:49 PM EDT by AR-15gal]
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Need more info: Milled or stamped trigger guard? [blue]Milled, Winchester[/blue] Marking from top of bolt. [blue]D28287-I2SA S-04 (triangle)[/blue] Lock bar sights? [blue]No[/blue] Stock markings behind trigger guard? [blue]"P" at bottom of pistol grip[/blue] And markings on side of buttstock? [blue]None, it had been refinished once before we got it.[/blue]
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[blue]Trigger housing stamp is D28290-12-SA Hammer stamp is C4B008-5 SA It has a Winchester safety.[/blue] So, what's the verdict on all that? [;)]
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 5:39:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2002 5:40:20 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Milled or stamped trigger guard? [blue]Milled, Winchester[/blue] Correct for a original garand. But the markings "Trigger housing stamp is D28290-12-SA" indicate Springfield Armory, not Winchester production. SA means Springfield Armory. Marking from top of bolt. [blue]D28287-I2SA S-04 (triangle)[/blue] Again, correct. Lock bar sights? [blue]No[/blue] Again, probably correct. Stock markings behind trigger guard? [blue]"P" at bottom of pistol grip[/blue] Correct cartouched stock And markings on side of buttstock? [blue]None, it had been refinished once before we got it.[/blue] Escaped a Korea era arsenal refinish or does not have original stock. If it was arsenal refinished it would have markings such as "AA" followed by numbers on the side of buttstock. Again, a very plausible candidate for a original Garand. [blue]Trigger housing stamp is D28290-12-SA Hammer stamp is C4B008-5 SA It has a Winchester safety.[/blue] How do you know it is Winchester? Is it stamped WRA? So, what's the verdict on all that? [;)][/quote] Ok I haven't compared the lot numbers on all parts. But so far it is all Springfiel Armory. The 44 barrel STRONGLY indicates a original WW2 production Garand. "If" all the lot numbers match you will want to obtain a orignal cartouched, unrefinished stock. Even though it is not the actual one, it will restore the Garand to what is called "correct as produced." Even if the refinished stock is the one it came out of the factory with, it will be worth twice as much with a unrefinished one. Garands are kinda unique in that parts don't have individual serial numbers, but lot numbers. So it is possible to rebuild a "as original" Garand with the correct lot numbered parts. I strongly recommend you buy "The M1 Garand: World War II" bu Scott Duff. Is this a CMP gun? Any import markings on the barrel forward of the handguards? You may REALLY have something here.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 5:57:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Milled or stamped trigger guard? [red]Milled, Winchester[/red] Correct for a original garand. But the markings "Trigger housing stamp is D28290-12-SA" indicate Springfield Armory, not Winchester production. SA means Springfield Armory. [blue]Clarification---The trigger "housing" has the Springfield numbers on it, but the trigger "guard" has WRA.[/blue] It has a Winchester safety. How do you know it is Winchester? Is it stamped WRA? [blue]Yes, the safety has the WRA stamp[/blue]
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Is this a CMP gun? [blue]We did not get it from CMP[/blue] Any import markings on the barrel forward of the handguards? [blue]None[/blue]
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I wish I had a digital camera so I could post a pic of this, but I don't. Now you have me really curious.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 6:18:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2002 6:19:21 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By AR-15gal:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Milled or stamped trigger guard? [red]Milled, Winchester[/red] Correct for a original garand. But the markings "Trigger housing stamp is D28290-12-SA" indicate Springfield Armory, not Winchester production. SA means Springfield Armory. [blue]Clarification---The trigger "housing" has the Springfield numbers on it, but the trigger "guard" has WRA.[/blue] It has a Winchester safety. How do you know it is Winchester? Is it stamped WRA? [blue]Yes, the safety has the WRA stamp[/blue]
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Is this a CMP gun? [blue]We did not get it from CMP[/blue] Any import markings on the barrel forward of the handguards? [blue]None[/blue] I wish I had a digital camera so I could post a pic of this, but I don't. Now you have me really curious.
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OK, many correct Winchester Garands had Springfield Armory parts. As Springfiled produced more than WRA Winchester sometimes used SA parts to complete rifles when they ran behind prodcution. It is POSSIBLE for it to work the other way and encounter WRA parts on original Springfields. However, I would ONLY accept this theory if ALL the lot numbers checked out. Otherwise it is simply a damn nice rebuild in correct configuration. Given that this is NOT a CMP, or reimported gun again points to a original Garand. Almost all Garands got reconfigured during the 1950s and updated. The only way a Garand escaped these updates/upgrades was to be taken out of circulation by private ownership before the Korean War heated up. If you do in fact have a original WW2 Garand it is worth quite a bit of money. Only the WRA parts suggest it may not be. When I get a chance I'll try and referrence the lot numbers, if they check out as 1943-1944 you probably have a correct original gun. Other factors are going to be throat erosion and barrel guage. But these factors mostly just determine wear.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:12:27 PM EDT
Steyr, thanks for all the input. I had no idea when I started this post that it was going to turn out to be so intriguing (for me, anyway). We'll do some more research on it, and I'll let you know if I find out that it's original. If you happen to reference those lot numbers and find out something before I do, shoot me an email. I appreciate all your help. My curiosity is killing me now.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 8:30:16 PM EDT
This gun IS checking out. Springfield Bolt lot#s D282287-12SA are WW2 production. Springfield Hammer lot #s C46008-5 are WW2 production. By the way the third figure is a "6" not a "B." You listed it as #C4B008-5. Trigger Housing lot #s D28290-12-SA are specifically 1944 production. This combined with a 43 receiver and 44 barrel almost proves the gun. I need the lot #s off the WRA safety and the WRA trigger guard. I would also like to specifically match lot numbers to the serial range. Can you provide the serial number and just X out the last 3 digits? If the WRA parts check out as 1943-44 you probably have a original Garand.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 8:37:06 PM EDT
AR-15gal, you in souther nm? Got a few sprinkles here but it never turned into anything. I could see out to the west it was raining heavily but nothing ever came of it.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 9:14:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2002 9:20:21 PM EDT by Wasted-life]
Originally Posted By Dukota: AR-15gal, you in souther nm? Got a few sprinkles here but it never turned into anything. I could see out to the west it was raining heavily but nothing ever came of it.
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I was wondering the same thing. We were coming home from Tombstone last night and saw all the lightning on the other side of the Chiricauhas, (in the Rodeo area?).I was hoping some of it would come over to this side, but no luck. I was surprised that the lightning didn't start any serious fires. Dukota, I just realized that we are on oppisite sides of New Mexico. They must have had a good storm last night.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 10:56:10 PM EDT
Congrats on the Garand!...Sent my CMP application out 5/9/02 for a Service Grade USGI Springfield Armory. A long wait ahead for me![>(]
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 11:51:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:22:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dukota: AR-15gal, you in souther nm? Got a few sprinkles here but it never turned into anything. I could see out to the west it was raining heavily but nothing ever came of it.
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Dukota, I'm just north of Albuquerque. There were some pockets of rain yesterday afternoon. We were out in the desert at the time, and like I said, we just drove down the road to get out of it. Looked like they got some good rain just west of us, but when we got home it was still dry as a bone there.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:38:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: Springfield Hammer lot #s C46008-5 are WW2 production. By the way the third figure is a "6" not a "B." You listed it as #C4B008-5. [blue]I took another look, and you are correct. The third number is a 6. It's hard to read at that angle.[/blue] I need the lot #s off the WRA safety and the WRA trigger guard. [blue]The number on the safety is 6015-4 W.R.A. There might be something before the 6, but if there is, it's up inside where I can't see it. The number on the trigger guard is C 46025 W.R.A.[/blue] I would also like to specifically match lot numbers to the serial range. Can you provide the serial number and just X out the last 3 digits? [blue]S/N is 1409xxx[/blue]
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I have to go to work, but I'll check this post when I get home to see if you have good news for me. Something to look forward to! Thanks again, Steyr! [:)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:41:30 AM EDT
DVDTracker, love that vid!! Someday I'm going to do that...hehehe [;)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:12:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-15gal:
Originally Posted By Dukota: AR-15gal, you in souther nm? Got a few sprinkles here but it never turned into anything. I could see out to the west it was raining heavily but nothing ever came of it.
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Dukota, I'm just north of Albuquerque. There were some pockets of rain yesterday afternoon. We were out in the desert at the time, and like I said, we just drove down the road to get out of it. Looked like they got some good rain just west of us, but when we got home it was still dry as a bone there.
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Haven't seen a weather map but it must have been quite a band of rain across the state. I live in El Paso and could see quite a few storms moving out to the west in NM be all we got were a few drops. It's been over 100 days since we've gotten any precip.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 5:31:55 PM EDT
OK, here is how the Winchester parts checked out. The saftey marked "C46015-4 WRA"is WW2 production. The trigger guard marked "C46025 WRA" is WW2 production. Of interest is the fact that Forged C46025 WRA guards are only obeserved on Garands produced up until late 1945. After that period ONLY stamped, not milled, trigger guards are encountered. Also the receiver 1409XXX will be produced by March of 1943. Given all the data present, realistically only one of two scenarios are likely: 1. This is a original Garand and quite rare as WRA parts are used on a SA rifle. The reverse is often encountered as WRA often used SA parts when they were behind in prodcution. This would be a very collectable Garand, the only problem being the refinished stocks dramatically reduce it's value. 2. This is a Garand that was restored to original, correct WW2 configuration by someone knowledgeable enough to do so. However, a collector astute enough to do this would NEVER refinish the stocks. Another possibility is it was restored to correct configuration and refinished by a later owner. But here is the rub with Garands, you will probably never know for sure. This is because parets are not individual serial numbered by numbered by lot. The lot numbers can be up to a year apart and still be correct. But this also works in your favor. By obtaining a correct "P" cartouched, unrefinished stock you can again have a "correct Garand." And that would be my recommendation. The funny part is more than half of "correct" Garands are rebuilds that were restored to "as original" by knowledgable collectors. This is because during the 1950s almost every Garand (probably 95% of all ever produced) were upgraded and/or arsenal refinished. The 5% that were never molested in any way are those that were privately owned directly after World War 2. And the only real way to prove a "unmolested" original Garand is by documentation of ownership. With correct, unrefinished stocks you rifle is probably worth $1,200.00 as a correct rebuild. If it could be proven genuine "orignal" you are into the 2k market with the stocks corrected. With the refinished stocks, it is worth about $800-900 as a rebuild and probably $1,400.00 if a genuine factory gun. As you can see simply replacing the stocks dramtaically changes it's value. Anyway, get the Scott Duff book. It will help you appreciate and understand exactly what you own. Whether it pedigrees or not, this Garand did see service in WW2 and is a valuable piece of history. Keep it in the family, your decendents will appreciate it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 6:03:38 PM EDT
SteyrAug, this is all very interesting. Now I'm going to have to get the Scott Duff book and see if I can legitimately piece together the history on this gun. Unfortunately, I don't see any way to trace the ownership back that far. At least not with any documentation. But it would be fun to do some research into the possibile scenarios on those Winchester parts, for example. Great. Now I have ANOTHER project to work on. Just what I needed. [;)] Thanks again for all the information you've taken to time to look up for me. You just turned a great Christmas gift into a super one. Now I have garand fever!! [:D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:01:23 PM EDT
Do you have a bayo yet?[:D] You haven't begun to spend money on this thing. Did you know Oenida made Garand Bayos? And yes that is the same Oenida that makes silverwear place settings. When I get a chance I'll post a pic of my SA 80,000 serial Garand.
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