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Posted: 5/19/2002 11:11:12 AM EDT
Does anyone know of a source where I can buy one of these? I am refering to the ones that look like the GM 4x4's painted camo. We used to drive the crap outta these things in the military.........and now I want one to pull my boat. Thanks, JarHead94
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 12:48:52 PM EDT
Find a copy of Military Vehicles Magazine and take a look thru there. (sorry, I don't have a url for them)
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 12:54:34 PM EDT
Jarhead, the M1008 was a Chevy long wheel base 4X4 with a 6.2 liter diesel engine. Except for the paint and lack of A/C and radio it was basically a stock truck. BTW, the M1009 was the K5 Blazer. Marty
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 1:44:58 PM EDT
Thanks folks! I live near an Army base and I think they are getting rid of some. I just needed the proper model number.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 1:52:32 PM EDT
You are going to have to special order the rifle holders, too. The CARC paint is going to be a real bear to find and a much bigger one to apply.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 1:54:02 PM EDT
Sorry, my post was aimed at folks who were making their own.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 2:00:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PPCShooter1: Jarhead, the M1008 was a Chevy long wheel base 4X4 with a 6.2 liter diesel engine. Except for the paint and lack of A/C and radio it was basically a stock truck. BTW, the M1009 was the K5 Blazer. Marty
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And the 24 volt electrical system.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 3:04:58 PM EDT
[url]http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/colemans.storefront/en/catalog/1104[/url] Click view catalog and then military vehicles link and your there! [b][red][i]Libertas an Mortis!![/b][/red][/i]
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 3:07:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 5:53:43 PM EDT
I agree with thedave1164 - they usually have a lot of hard miles on them, and often aren't driven properly (i.e., not allowed to warm up before use, or reach operating temp during use, etc.) Plus, the military uses JP8 jet fuel which is similar to but not the same as diesel fuel, and its lack of lubricity is hard on 6.2L injector pumps. Lastly, people who have these things for sale must think there's something extra-special about them and don't understand that they're nothing but a slightly militarized K5 Blazer or single-rear-wheel K30, because the prices they ask are outrageous! Your best bet, IMO, would be to just find a "civilian" model locally, because you'll pay less for it and it'll do everything just as well. Plus, you'll be able to find a 1-ton with 3.73 or 4.10 gears, as opposed to the 4.56s found in the M1008.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 5:59:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2002 6:02:53 PM EDT by Ross]
[img]http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0LwAAALMOdTwzIZNjw3QYPhAGsi73MLRKF3l5kooCrcJt­tT0*NV3LZGd9q1W!RTV9wDYnYBo*sPk/M880(1).jpg[/img] This is my Dodge M880. Gas guzzling, full-time 4x4, with NO power steering. Still, it will run forever. Don't buy a M1009 (Blazer) for towing. We had towing restrictions in the Army for them because the rearends would give out too quick with heavy loads. As noted above the M1008 is the Long bed 1-ton 6.2 diesel with different paint, additional lights and a 24volt system to match the rest of NATO. You'll need to remmeber that glow plugs and the controller are 24volt. 12volt ones won't work. The trannys on these trucks are the weak link. Not overly weak, just weaker than the rest of the driveline. GI's tend to drive them hard because they aren't used to driving a diesel, so the shifting is usually pretty harsh. The M1008A1 is the same pick-up with a second alternator and a radio rack in the bed. No A/C in TX is a big drag. The cost of the Military M1008s on the market are not far off from their civillian counterparts, and A/C would be more likely. TX is a big truck market though, so prices probably reflect that. You may want to check out state, county and city sales as well. They will be fleet maintained, used easier, and be 100% civillian compatible. Ross
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 6:04:28 PM EDT
try here: [url]http://www.armyjeeps.net/[/url]
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 6:24:11 PM EDT
You can get decent M1008s and M1009s for 7k out around Ft Dix NJ. Ross, why do you say the tranny is the weak link ? You mention them having "harsh" shifting. They have automatic trannys. Would a 4 speed manuel be better ?
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:01:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 2:15:39 AM EDT by NH2112]
Both the M1008 and M1009 have TH400 automatic transmissions, which aren't weak by ny definition of the term that I'm aware of. If I had to pick the weak link on the M1008, it'd be the NP208 chain-driven aluminum transfer case that some of them apparently had (I'd thought they all used the gear-drive cast iron NP205 but apparently only the shelter carriers, maintenance contact trucks, and ambulances do.) The weak link on the M1009 is the 10-bolt rear axle, but to put things in perspective the 10-bolt is pretty much the same as a Dana 44, and they're not really considered weak. My 85 6.2L-powered K10 is on its 2nd rear axle (blew a carrier bearing on a trip from OK to ME) and I've gotten 80K+ out of it so far, including quite a bit of heavy hauling and towing. Still, a 14-bolt full-floating rearend will handle a lot more. The 6.2L is a very good engine - it's not a powerhouse like the 5.9L Cummins or PowerStroke, but it was never intended to be. Mine has about 270K on it right now, and I know it'll make 300K without any major work needing to be done - I don't baby it, either, not by a long shot! I may end up turbocharging it as an interim step before swapping my Volvo diesel in, though. 7K seems to be a little high for a early-to-mid-80s vintage K30, especially when the body isn't exactly mint...but I guess prices won't be any higher than what people are willing to pay, regardless of actual value. (edit)BTW, Ross, I [b]love[/b] those M880s and any other 75-79 Dodge trucks! I didn't even have a problem with the unit-bearing front ends, the wheel bearing grease fittings more than made up for any problems I had getting the inner seals to seat in the knuckle. I had 2 ex-military models myself, but they weren't tactical vehicles (no blackout lighting.) One was a plain old W200, and the other was a W200 with equipment body housing a Wisconsin VG4D motor powering a 4kW generator and Hobart 200amp stick welder. They wouldn't let me bring it back from Germany because the VIN didn't begin with a 1 or 4...I tried telling them that the standardized 17-digit VIN system didn't come into effect till 1981 or so, but you know how hard it is to correct the army's civilian bureaucracy! Air the tires down to 12psi front and 15psi rear and it'd go just about anywhere except deep mud (not with 9.50-16.5 Wrangler ATs, anyway.)
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:46:36 PM EDT
Thanks to everyone for responding. I have made the decsion to buy an '81 CJ5 w/ 85k miles. This jeep is cherry.and I am only paying 3500 for it. Maybe in the future I will get a 1008, but like NH2112 said, I think I would be better off getting a civilian model truck. Thanks for helping me make the choice... JarHead PS.If there is anyone in East Texas who want to go muddin' then email me!
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:52:32 PM EDT
Try Ebay auto. Use "military" as search word and you should get M35 trucks, Humvees, etc. Another place you can look is [url]www.militaryjeep.com[/url] They have M1008 pickup and M1009 Blaser for sale.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:53:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: You can get decent M1008s and M1009s for 7k out around Ft Dix NJ. Ross, why do you say the tranny is the weak link ? You mention them having "harsh" shifting. They have automatic trannys. Would a 4 speed manuel be better ?
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Because GIs would drive them like a gas engine instead of a diesel. They'd just floor the thing because the 6.2 diesel has a completely different power curve than the gas engines they were used to. So the truck would stay in low gear and the upshifts would be pretty harsh as the GI would keep mashing on the accelerator while cursing at the truck for not upshifting. Yeah, go figure, must be a junk truck. ANYONE who had ANY experience driving a diesel had no problems with them. The TH400 is a great tranny, they just saw alot of abuse in the Army when you had a bad driver. There's nothing wrong with the truck that proper operation wouldn't cure. If it does develop a tranny problem after you buy it, or even if it already has one, it's just a standard Chevy auto so fixing it would be a straightforward deal. A four speed would be better for the highway, as the truck's geared low for offroad. But if you're towing you might not even bother with the OD in a 4psd anyway. The military uses a different weight capacity rating than the civillian world. They don't relate to the civillian system. The 5/4 ton M1008 is a 1 ton in the civillian world and the 3/4 ton M1009 is a 1/2 ton in civillian. My Dodge above is a 5/4 ton as well, but it's a W200 which is a 3/4 ton in the civillian world. Just make sure you know which rating system you're using to compare things. Ross
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:36:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 8:37:31 AM EDT by Philadelphia_GunMan]
Ross, I was thinking of a 4 speed with a granny gear for first. What do you think ? I worked with a guy that had a tranny like this in a ford 4x4. He never even used 1st gear other then when pulling a heavy boat out up the boat ramp. So 4th gear in that trans is one to one.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 4:42:27 AM EDT
I think it'd be great for off-road. Gearing is all about what you want your truck to do. You have to take into account all the different gear ratios in your truck. That's your differentials, transfer case and transmission. Also the size of your tires will make a big difference. A low gear ration (numerically high, i.e. 4.11:1) gives you lower gears, more pulling power, and a slower speed at crawl. Higher gears (numerically lower, i.e. 3.08:1) gives you higher speed at the same RPM, better MPG on the road(generally) and alot less wear on the highway. So really it depends on what you want to do with it. If you're off road alot, generally speaking the lower the better. On road alot, the higher the better. It also depends on what you're doing with your truck. Snow, mud, rack-crawling, sand, towing, all are different and you not only drive them differently, but optimum gearing will differ. If you want to still benifit from higher gearing on the highway, but still keep good off-road gearing, look at the Underdrive/overdrive units, like Gearvendors. They're basically an add-on tranny that goes on the back of your existing tranny. It doesn't effect your transfer case, so you just don't use it in 4x4 and have the lowest gearing you can manage. When you get out on the road in 2x4, you pop in the overdrive (which only works on the tailshaft) and you effectively get higher gears(something like 20-30%. That gives you a great off road set-up and still great highway drivability. You can also use them in any gear, so towing is much easier up hill when you need to split a gear. They aren't cheap, but they're worth looking into. If you spend most of your time off-road, they aren't worth it, but if you tow a heavy trailer on hills, on highways, and still want low gearing for off-road, they're a good option. My Dodge is geared low. I get 7MPG out of the full-time 4x4 and I could care less about highway performance. That's why I own a car. Ross
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 12:42:25 PM EDT
Thanks for the info Ross. I never heard of Gearvenders.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 7:15:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2002 7:24:05 PM EDT by GunnyG]
[url]http://www.gearvendors.com/[/url] I've been toying with this same idea for my '83 K20 Chev P/U (350 gas engine, 4 speed manual, and a 3:73 gear ratio at the differentials.) (edited to add: The $2695.00 for the unit + another $550.00 to install it probably makes it an unlikely proposition. That's damn near what I paid for entire truck, with: 30K on a new goodwrench 350, mechanically excellent, no rust, and reasonably clean paint!) Semper Fi Dave
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 4:59:09 AM EDT
Yeah, they aren't cheap. The way I looked at it is you can buy alot of gas for $2700+. I'm not driving my 4x4 on the highway either. Ross
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:26:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2002 6:31:48 PM EDT by NH2112]
Don't buy a GearVendors unit new until you've checked out ebay and all the RV shops in your area. As far as installing them goes, it's not much more involved than removing the rear driveshaft yoke (slipyoke on your K20), speedo drive gear, and tailshaft housing. The GV bolts in place of the tailshaft housing and the transfer case bolts to the rear of the GV unit. Then you have to wire the switch up, have the front driveshaft lengthened, and the rear shortened. There may be more but if so it's not much more work, from the few looks I've had underneath GV-equipped vehicles. [edited to change a few things that relate to Warn overdrives rather than GV - Warns install between tranny and transfer.]
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:38:39 PM EDT
NH, that's an excellent point! Given my current driving patterns, it would be a waste of time and money (short drives w/ city traffic, or curvy two lane mountain roads stuck behind old men in their Lincoln Town Cars @ 15 mph under the posted limit). There have got to be many more out there who paid full price, only to realize they weren't using it enough to justify the expense. Semper Fi Dave
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 7:02:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 7:21:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: I didn't know the military models were different voltage. Why is that?
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Guess what you get when you jump start a 24 volt vehicle w/ a 12 volt vehicle. 2 dead vehicles. I know our Aircraft use a 28 VDC charging system, and I'm guessing that our Heavy Equipment and Tanks have the same voltage requirements. Using a slave cable (aka: jumper cables) the smaller vehicles are capable assisting the bigger items getting started. You could also borrow batteries from one for the other.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 9:02:05 PM EDT
Actually only the starters are 24 volts. There is 2 batteries and the alternator charges at 24 volts I believe, but the rest of the truck is 12 volts.
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 4:23:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: Actually only the starters are 24 volts. There is 2 batteries and the alternator charges at 24 volts I believe, but the rest of the truck is 12 volts.
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It's a combination system. 12 volt for insturment and lighting, 24 volt(NATO std) for starting and charging and radios. I'm pretty sure the glow plugs were 24volt as was the controller for them (which is logical as it's part of the starting system). I know that the civillian parts are compatible if swapped as a system, but not as components (i.e. civillian glow plugs and a military controller). They have two alternators, which provide the various voltages to the various systems. IIRC both were just normal 12v alternators, but wired up to produce the proper current to the proper places. Ross
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 7:07:32 AM EDT
No I think the glow plugs are 12 volt also. Like I said the charging system and the starter are 24 volt. Plus the radio, I forgot about that one. But you don't get a radio with it when you buy a used one from the government anyway.
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 2:49:43 PM EDT
Glow plugs are generally lower voltage than the vehicle's electrical system. My 6.2L is 12V but has 6V glow plugs. The glow plugs in humvees are 12V, in a 24V system. 12V plugs in a 12V system will just heat up slower than 6V plugs.
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 2:53:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: I didn't know the military models were different voltage. Why is that?
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you still didn't answer the question, i want to know too, why is that???
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 5:12:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By Aimless: I didn't know the military models were different voltage. Why is that?
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you still didn't answer the question, i want to know too, why is that???
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Because in almost every other country in the world - including the NATO countries - 24V is standard for trucks, heavy equipment, etc. With twice the voltage you only need half the amperage to do something, and since amperage means heat, fewer amps means less heat and components last longer. And it's just the way the military wants things, just like how the turn signal levers on military vehicles don't return to center when you're done the turn.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:37:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NH2112:
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By Aimless: I didn't know the military models were different voltage. Why is that?
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you still didn't answer the question, i want to know too, why is that???
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Because in almost every other country in the world - including the NATO countries - 24V is standard for trucks, heavy equipment, etc. With twice the voltage you only need half the amperage to do something, and since amperage means heat, fewer amps means less heat and components last longer. And it's just the way the military wants things, just like how the turn signal levers on military vehicles don't return to center when you're done the turn.
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Yeah basically it's NATO standard voltage. The CUCV is equipped with a NATO slave cable receptacle, so you can just plug in a German truck and jump start the Chevy, or use the Chevy to jump start some other piece of equipment. Turn signals don't return to center on military trucks because they use standard commercial grade (rather than private vehcile grade) components. They don't return to center on tractor trailers in the civillian world because they use to use the same components. Even today, although many companies manufactuer their own turn signals (like on my Volvo tractor at work) they do not return on their own. That's something that only happens with cars, pick-ups and some light-duty commercial stuff. You need to be able to have your tunr signal manual returning because your turn in a combination rig (i.e. tractor-trailer) is a bit more complicated than a car and it would be turning itself off before you were through with the turn. Ross Ross
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