Montana Rep. Says DUI Laws Are 'Destroying a Way of Life - Page 7

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Montana Rep. Says DUI Laws Are 'Destroying a Way of Life (Page 7 of 8)

Posted: 4/4/2011 8:42:17 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The folks who are defending drunk Drivers and their right to slaughter indiscriminately are heroes of Liberty, in keeping with Tom Jefferson

No, some of us aren't.

Some of us are saying the system is set up to make money, not keep drunk drivers off the road.

How many fatalities are caused by drunken drivers with previous arrests or convictions?

The system that let them go free is partially to blame for any deaths or injuries they cause.

If you have enough money and get a good lawyer, a drunk driver can stay on the road while they play the legal game.

Any way you cut it, it's not right.

A continual drunk driver can stay on the road and a one time offender who doesn't know how to play the game will get gang raped by the judicial system.

Here in NY, your license is suspended at arraignment. You can get a hardship license enabling you to drive to work and back home as long as you don't have a prior within a specified period of time. This has to be based on a sworn statement and the address to which you are allowed to drive is listed on your temporary "license."

In my county, most first time offenders plead out to DWAI and lose their license for 90 days, among other inconveniences and costs. This is generally enough to deter people from getting a second charge. A very small amount of my DWI clients have had a prior arrest.

Posted: 4/4/2011 9:04:10 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

i agree with him. the "limit" we use is typically not really impairment for most people. i have also seen people well under the limit that were blitzed.

the test should be level of impairment, not BAC. i also think that true DUI should actually be a stiffer sentance.

Well then it's a good thing that's how it's done in FL, and most other states.

Posted: 4/4/2011 9:06:57 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

You don't have to be .08 to be charged. The cops observations and FST are a big part of it too.

Police observations and how well you complete the SFSTs is the only part that matters. You are arrested based on those two things alone. Your BrAC is not even tested until after you are arrested for DUI and transported to booking. I see you get it, why it escapes everyone else is beyond my comprehension.

Posted: 4/4/2011 9:07:41 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:

DUI laws are a joke. The limits get lowered based on declining numbers of DUI arrests, not on evidence of making us safer. Right now they just make money for the courts, insurance companies, and the biggest extortionist of the three, MADD. I wouldn't support any increase in penalties until they make the law target dangerous drivers instead of wallets.

i agree with him. the "limit" we use is typically not really impairment for most people. i have also seen people well under the limit that were blitzed.

the test should be level of impairment, not BAC. i also think that true DUI should actually be a stiffer sentance.

You don't have to be .08 to be charged. The cops observations and FST are a big part of it too.

But if you are .08 you'll still get a ride in a police car

How is that possible if central breath testing is in the county jail?

Posted: 4/4/2011 9:18:58 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
The folks who are defending drunk Drivers and their right to slaughter indiscriminately are heroes of Liberty, in keeping with Tom Jefferson

Do you also wail "But it's for the children!" when people oppose stricter gun laws? While your hyperbole probably makes you feel all warm and moist, it completely misses the point. No one is defending anyone who causes an accident or hurts anyone. Hell, I haven't even seen anyone who thinks people who are actually impaired should be on the road.

Posted: 4/4/2011 9:30:24 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Cocksucking assfucked shiteating sisterfucking cumdrinking moron fucktard.

Don't want a DUI?

DON'T FUCKING DRINK AND DRIVE YOU SHITEATING MOTHERFUCKING CUMSWAPPING ASSHOLE LICKER!!!

Take a cab home, have someone who has not been drinking take you home, call someone up who's sober to take you home.

Motherfuck, it's not hard, don't want a DUI?
Don't drink and drive.

Any drunk driver that causes a death needs to be executed on the spot, their head cut off and have it displayed on a pike outside of where they were drinking, then their body needs to be dumped with the rest of the shit in the nearest shit pool.

Fuck drunk drivers.

Herp derp...

Outstanding response.
I am so glad that you can refute the one point I am making, don't drink and drive with two words.
You are what the movie Idiocracy is all about.

Why would anyone feel the need to respond in an intelligent manner to your ignorant, expletive-filled rant?

Posted: 4/4/2011 9:47:47 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

Posted: 4/4/2011 9:52:10 AM EDT

[#8]

If you are drunk, call a taxi for heaven's sake... Seen many lives destroyed due to drunk driving....

Just my little PSA for the day..

Posted: 4/4/2011 9:56:26 AM EDT

[#9]

I'll just throw this story out there:

A guy I know was driving some friends home from the bar and one girl was so drunk she started puking out the passenger side door at a stop light (this is why they had left the bar, she had way too much). A cop sees this and pulls him over. The cop wanted him to do a sobriety test and he was so sure he wasn't drunk he asked to go directly to the breathalyzer. He blew a .08

. He was arrested and blew a .085 at the station. Cost him plenty and lost his license for 6 months.

Posted: 4/4/2011 10:30:00 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

You're in control of the car if you have the keys in your possession. They assume you are going to wake up at any moment and drive right into a bus full of blind Ukrainian orphans.

Posted: 4/4/2011 10:42:33 AM EDT

[#11]

Have a buddy in the Marine Corps. Great guy. 100% reliable, never fucked anything up. Iraq+ Afg combat vet. Got a NAM with a V. Meritotiously promoted. Other day he was coming in the main gate at Lejeune after playing a couple of rounds of pool out in town. Well, guess the local buddyfucker on guard duty said he smelled something. Ended up blowing a .09. Carreer down the shitter (military is very harsh on this stuff). All cause a guy drank a couple beers and drove home

Posted: 4/4/2011 10:45:53 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I say bring back prohibition or at least set the legal limit to NOT ONE SINGLE DROP. I don't drink never had one in my life. The world would be a better place without you drunks.

The world would be better of without people that don't drink. You squares.

Posted: 4/4/2011 10:46:36 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

You're in control of the car if you have the keys in your possession. They assume you are going to wake up at any moment and drive right into a bus full of blind Ukrainian orphans.

Still makes no sense to me. To be guilty of drunk "driving" you ought to be caught actually driving, not sleeping in the back seat! Seems kind of like "pre-crime" to me. You're going to drive drunk - the pre-cogs said so!

Posted: 4/4/2011 10:49:48 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

You're in control of the car if you have the keys in your possession. They assume you are going to wake up at any moment and drive right into a bus full of blind Ukrainian orphans.

The problem is that you won't sleep for long enough and will still be drunk when you wake up and leave at sun up.

Let's do some math. You drink until 2 am and you finally fall asleep in your car at 2:30 (about the time your last drink is absorbed into your system). You drank way too much and you are a .18. You lose alcohol at a rate of about .015% per hour. To get to a .07 to somewhat safely drive home, about 7 1/4 hours have to pass. You'd have to wait until almost 10am before you could drive home.

For the record, I have never arrested anyone for falling asleep in their car still in the bar parking lot and I don't plan on arresting someone like that, but I have never encountered that because it doesn't happen around here. The guys I arrest for the physical control aspect are the ones that drive halfway home, stop, and then pass out behind the wheel (half the time they are still in the driving lane and/or have their car still in drive with their foot on the brake).

Posted: 4/4/2011 11:12:36 AM EDT

[#15]

MADD is just the modern day prohibition movement. They can't ban alcohol so they do the next best thing and that's nickle and dime folks by slowly decreasing the tolerance level. Today it's .08 BAC in MI, but you watch 10 years from now it will be .06 BAC and I'm sure at some point it will be a ZERO tolerance level.

It's assnine. Bring the BAC level back up to say a .12 or higher.

Posted: 4/4/2011 11:14:35 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Have a buddy in the Marine Corps. Great guy. 100% reliable, never fucked anything up. Iraq+ Afg combat vet. Got a NAM with a V. Meritotiously promoted. Other day he was coming in the main gate at Lejeune after playing a couple of rounds of pool out in town. Well, guess the local buddyfucker on guard duty said he smelled something. Ended up blowing a .09. Carreer down the shitter (military is very harsh on this stuff). All cause a guy drank a couple beers and drove home

What makes this story worse is when MPs come back to base drunk, they just make a phone call to their boy on duty to wave them through.

Posted: 4/4/2011 11:16:14 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

You're in control of the car if you have the keys in your possession. They assume you are going to wake up at any moment and drive right into a bus full of blind Ukrainian orphans.

The problem is that you won't sleep for long enough and will still be drunk when you wake up and leave at sun up.

Let's do some math. You drink until 2 am and you finally fall asleep in your car at 2:30 (about the time your last drink is absorbed into your system). You drank way too much and you are a .18. You lose alcohol at a rate of about .015% per hour. To get to a .07 to somewhat safely drive home, about 7 1/4 hours have to pass. You'd have to wait until almost 10am before you could drive home.

For the record, I have never arrested anyone for falling asleep in their car still in the bar parking lot and I don't plan on arresting someone like that, but I have never encountered that because it doesn't happen around here. The guys I arrest for the physical control aspect are the ones that drive halfway home, stop, and then pass out behind the wheel (half the time they are still in the driving lane and/or have their car still in drive with their foot on the brake).

Still, don't agree with it. I don't care if you find them on the side of the road and it's obvious they drove at least that far. If they are not actually caught "driving" I think it's BS to be arrested. Just my .02.

Posted: 4/4/2011 11:55:44 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

You're in control of the car if you have the keys in your possession. They assume you are going to wake up at any moment and drive right into a bus full of blind Ukrainian orphans.

The problem is that you won't sleep for long enough and will still be drunk when you wake up and leave at sun up.

Let's do some math. You drink until 2 am and you finally fall asleep in your car at 2:30 (about the time your last drink is absorbed into your system). You drank way too much and you are a .18. You lose alcohol at a rate of about .015% per hour. To get to a .07 to somewhat safely drive home, about 7 1/4 hours have to pass. You'd have to wait until almost 10am before you could drive home.

For the record, I have never arrested anyone for falling asleep in their car still in the bar parking lot and I don't plan on arresting someone like that, but I have never encountered that because it doesn't happen around here. The guys I arrest for the physical control aspect are the ones that drive halfway home, stop, and then pass out behind the wheel (half the time they are still in the driving lane and/or have their car still in drive with their foot on the brake).

Still, don't agree with it. I don't care if you find them on the side of the road and it's obvious they drove at least that far. If they are not actually caught "driving" I think it's BS to be arrested. Just my .02.

I feel the same as you....how can a cop or anyone prove you were driving on public roads while imparied? Sounds like assumption of guilt without proof to me. If a person is sleeping in their car off the public roads and there is no evidence the person was driving....it should not be a arrestable offense.

It sounds like a civil rights violation to me.

Posted: 4/4/2011 1:20:54 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

You're in control of the car if you have the keys in your possession. They assume you are going to wake up at any moment and drive right into a bus full of blind Ukrainian orphans.

The problem is that you won't sleep for long enough and will still be drunk when you wake up and leave at sun up.

Let's do some math. You drink until 2 am and you finally fall asleep in your car at 2:30 (about the time your last drink is absorbed into your system). You drank way too much and you are a .18. You lose alcohol at a rate of about .015% per hour. To get to a .07 to somewhat safely drive home, about 7 1/4 hours have to pass. You'd have to wait until almost 10am before you could drive home.

For the record, I have never arrested anyone for falling asleep in their car still in the bar parking lot and I don't plan on arresting someone like that, but I have never encountered that because it doesn't happen around here. The guys I arrest for the physical control aspect are the ones that drive halfway home, stop, and then pass out behind the wheel (half the time they are still in the driving lane and/or have their car still in drive with their foot on the brake).

Still, don't agree with it. I don't care if you find them on the side of the road and it's obvious they drove at least that far. If they are not actually caught "driving" I think it's BS to be arrested. Just my .02.

I feel the same as you....how can a cop or anyone prove you were driving on public roads while imparied? Sounds like assumption of guilt without proof to me. If a person is sleeping in their car off the public roads and there is no evidence the person was driving....it should not be a arrestable offense.

It sounds like a civil rights violation to me.

Because the law isn't written as just "Driving under the influence", its "Driving or being in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence on the ways open to the public". How is it a civil rights violation?

Really, how hard is it just to have a sober ride set up before you go out? Four of you go out and one stays sober to drive the rest home. Then the next time, that person can get drunk and another person is the sober driver. It's not rocket science.

Posted: 4/4/2011 1:24:14 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

That's because you might wake up and you might decide to drive drunk and you might kill a buss load of nuns and orphans.

Of course as a gun owner, you might decide to go on a murderous rampage.

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:00:41 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Have a buddy in the Marine Corps. Great guy. 100% reliable, never fucked anything up. Iraq+ Afg combat vet. Got a NAM with a V. Meritotiously promoted. Other day he was coming in the main gate at Lejeune after playing a couple of rounds of pool out in town. Well, guess the local buddyfucker on guard duty said he smelled something. Ended up blowing a .09. Carreer down the shitter (military is very harsh on this stuff). All cause a guy drank a couple beers and drove home

He had more than a couple if he blew a .09%

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:07:05 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

You're in control of the car if you have the keys in your possession. They assume you are going to wake up at any moment and drive right into a bus full of blind Ukrainian orphans.

The problem is that you won't sleep for long enough and will still be drunk when you wake up and leave at sun up.

Let's do some math. You drink until 2 am and you finally fall asleep in your car at 2:30 (about the time your last drink is absorbed into your system). You drank way too much and you are a .18. You lose alcohol at a rate of about .015% per hour. To get to a .07 to somewhat safely drive home, about 7 1/4 hours have to pass. You'd have to wait until almost 10am before you could drive home.

For the record, I have never arrested anyone for falling asleep in their car still in the bar parking lot and I don't plan on arresting someone like that, but I have never encountered that because it doesn't happen around here. The guys I arrest for the physical control aspect are the ones that drive halfway home, stop, and then pass out behind the wheel (half the time they are still in the driving lane and/or have their car still in drive with their foot on the brake).

Still, don't agree with it. I don't care if you find them on the side of the road and it's obvious they drove at least that far. If they are not actually caught "driving" I think it's BS to be arrested. Just my .02.

I feel the same as you....how can a cop or anyone prove you were driving on public roads while imparied? Sounds like assumption of guilt without proof to me. If a person is sleeping in their car off the public roads and there is no evidence the person was driving....it should not be a arrestable offense.

It sounds like a civil rights violation to me.

Because the law isn't written as just "Driving under the influence", its "Driving or being in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence on the ways open to the public". How is it a civil rights violation?

Really, how hard is it just to have a sober ride set up before you go out? Four of you go out and one stays sober to drive the rest home. Then the next time, that person can get drunk and another person is the sober driver. It's not rocket science.

Its real god damn hard when the pretty twenty-something you're crushing on challenges you to a shot. Call it stupid, bullshit, etc...but I'm willing bet every male here has faced such a challenge at some point in life.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:18:32 PM EDT

[#23]

nvm

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:23:19 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

I feel the same as you....how can a cop or anyone prove you were driving on public roads while imparied? Sounds like assumption of guilt without proof to me. If a person is sleeping in their car off the public roads and there is no evidence the person was driving....it should not be a arrestable offense.

It sounds like a civil rights violation to me.

In Oklahoma it's called Actual Physical Control if you are drunk with the keys in your pocket and you are in a parked car.
Not much you can do about it except hide your keys until you sober up.
But then they'll probably bust you for public drunk.

You can't win if they want you.

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:25:53 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I feel the same as you....how can a cop or anyone prove you were driving on public roads while imparied? Sounds like assumption of guilt without proof to me. If a person is sleeping in their car off the public roads and there is no evidence the person was driving....it should not be a arrestable offense.

It sounds like a civil rights violation to me.

In Oklahoma it's called Actual Physical Control if you are drunk with the keys in your pocket and you are in a parked car.

Not much you can do about it except hide your keys until you sober up.

But then they'll probably bust you for public drunk.

You can't win if they want you.

It's the same in Florida. Bitch to your legislators, as police don't write the laws.

BTW, I hope you learned something from all the cops who posted in this thread since I believe you're one of the people confused about the whole BrAC/BAC thing.

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:26:07 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I feel the same as you....how can a cop or anyone prove you were driving on public roads while imparied? Sounds like assumption of guilt without proof to me. If a person is sleeping in their car off the public roads and there is no evidence the person was driving....it should not be a arrestable offense.

It sounds like a civil rights violation to me.

In Oklahoma it's called Actual Physical Control if you are drunk with the keys in your pocket and you are in a parked car.

Not much you can do about it except hide your keys until you sober up.

But then they'll probably bust you for public drunk.

You can't win if they want you.

Damn straight. Stupid JBT's. Even if you just hole up in your house with a golf club practicing swings they still find you.

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:27:19 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
So all of you "I can drive fine when I'm drunk" folks –– checkpoints are announced in the papers here. If your equipment isn't defective and you're driving just fine, why would you be pulled over and arrested for DWI?

screw you and your facts.

people get arrested for DUI because they run stop signs and crash into your wifes brand new car. Then they try to flee the scene but usually end up crashing into another parked car.

Of course they are fine meanwhile your wife has a broken femur. And the best part is guess who has insurance? I'll give you a hint not idiot drunk guy.

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:28:45 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
DUI laws are a joke. The limits get lowered based on declining numbers of DUI arrests, not on evidence of making us safer. Right now they just make money for the courts, insurance companies, and the biggest extortionist of the three, MADD. I wouldn't support any increase in penalties until they make the law target dangerous drivers instead of wallets.

Yes. 5 years in state prison for DUI's. No fines. I agree.

Where would you keep these people? Prisons are overfilled to the point its becoming even more dangerous for the guards.

Tents?

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:29:23 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

I say bring back prohibition or at least set the legal limit to NOT ONE SINGLE DROP. I don't drink never had one in my life. The world would be a better place without you drunks.

and the world would be better off without you ugly people...

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:35:02 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am for DUI laws, but they have gone a bit overboard.

Example-
Here in MN you can be sleeping the back of your car in a parking lot and get a DUI. IF you are at DUI level BAC and are "in control" of your car..which having keys accessable in your car qualifies as..you can get a DUI. So even if you are being responsible thinking "I can't drive, I am out of $$$...I will just sleep it off in my car", they can bleed you for $$$. Granted, very very few are prosecuted in this fashion, but it goes to show the Witch Hunt level mentality that is going on with DUI.

BTW-the GFs dad is retired LEO and thinks some of the laws like this one I just mentioned are overkill. He said when he was still active LEO 10 years ago, the law was in place, he never arrested anyone under this pretense as it was overkill. He thinks it is stupid that you can even arrest someone on that sort of technical wording..."Revenue Generation" is what he calls it.

Don't get me wrong..I am for Drunk Drivers getting nailed because they are violating a agreement when they signed on for the privlage of driving...and yes. it is NOT a right, but we have to use some level of common sense with the laws.

I do not advocate drunk-driving in any manner, but this part makes no sense??? If I leave a party and realize, I'm too drunk to drive, I'm going to sleep in my backseat until morning. I pass out in the back - the cops see me and arrest me for drunk driving? I'm not driving? Never understood this?

You're in control of the car if you have the keys in your possession. They assume you are going to wake up at any moment and drive right into a bus full of blind Ukrainian orphans.

The problem is that you won't sleep for long enough and will still be drunk when you wake up and leave at sun up.

Let's do some math. You drink until 2 am and you finally fall asleep in your car at 2:30 (about the time your last drink is absorbed into your system). You drank way too much and you are a .18. You lose alcohol at a rate of about .015% per hour. To get to a .07 to somewhat safely drive home, about 7 1/4 hours have to pass. You'd have to wait until almost 10am before you could drive home.

For the record, I have never arrested anyone for falling asleep in their car still in the bar parking lot and I don't plan on arresting someone like that, but I have never encountered that because it doesn't happen around here. The guys I arrest for the physical control aspect are the ones that drive halfway home, stop, and then pass out behind the wheel (half the time they are still in the driving lane and/or have their car still in drive with their foot on the brake).

Still, don't agree with it. I don't care if you find them on the side of the road and it's obvious they drove at least that far. If they are not actually caught "driving" I think it's BS to be arrested. Just my .02.

I feel the same as you....how can a cop or anyone prove you were driving on public roads while imparied? Sounds like assumption of guilt without proof to me. If a person is sleeping in their car off the public roads and there is no evidence the person was driving....it should not be a arrestable offense.

It sounds like a civil rights violation to me.

Because the law isn't written as just "Driving under the influence", its "Driving or being in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while under the influence on the ways open to the public". How is it a civil rights violation?

Really, how hard is it just to have a sober ride set up before you go out? Four of you go out and one stays sober to drive the rest home. Then the next time, that person can get drunk and another person is the sober driver. It's not rocket science.

I've not been arguing the "intelligence" of drunk driving, just the application of the law. In my opinion, you are busting someone who has done nothing wrong . . . or should I say, nothing that you can prove.
For the record, I've never been popped for drunk-driving and am not advocating it.

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:38:22 PM EDT

[#31]

A drunk driver crashed into the back of my truck, totalling it. Fortunately the truck was parked at the time so it was only property damage.

Posted: 4/4/2011 3:07:46 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Damn straight. Stupid JBT's. Even if you just hole up in your house with a golf club practicing swings they still find you.

Sherrick, when I taught at OU I had people come in from all over the country for the two week classes.
One of the things I and the other instructors told them was about the APC and to be careful.
We got more derogatory comments about Oklahoma from that APC warning than anything else.
We also warned them to avoid certain bars because of the public drunk arrests being made.
You can't help what other people do when they come for any kind of business trip but that one sure didn't make many admirers of Oklahoma.
You're not going to keep a drunk from getting drunk.
FWIW.

Posted: 4/4/2011 3:13:38 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So all of you "I can drive fine when I'm drunk" folks –– checkpoints are announced in the papers here. If your equipment isn't defective and you're driving just fine, why would you be pulled over and arrested for DWI?

screw you and your facts.

people get arrested for DUI because they run stop signs and crash into your wifes brand new car. Then they try to flee the scene but usually end up crashing into another parked car.

Of course they are fine meanwhile your wife has a broken femur. And the best part is guess who has insurance? I'll give you a hint not idiot drunk guy.

And you obviously didn't read the whole thread because multiple instances of cops pulling people over on DUI fishing expeditions were posted. Drive fine and happen to get pulled over by a cop who smells alcohol could mean a DUI.

Posted: 4/4/2011 4:24:01 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Damn straight. Stupid JBT's. Even if you just hole up in your house with a golf club practicing swings they still find you.

Sherrick, when I taught at OU I had people come in from all over the country for the two week classes.

One of the things I and the other instructors told them was about the APC and to be careful.

We got more derogatory comments about Oklahoma from that APC warning than anything else.

We also warned them to avoid certain bars because of the public drunk arrests being made.

You can't help what other people do when they come for any kind of business trip but that one sure didn't make many admirers of Oklahoma.

You're not going to keep a drunk from getting drunk.

FWIW.

Not going to keep murderers from murdering either.

Guess we shouldn't enforce it.

Posted: 4/4/2011 4:34:41 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Damn straight. Stupid JBT's. Even if you just hole up in your house with a golf club practicing swings they still find you.

Sherrick, when I taught at OU I had people come in from all over the country for the two week classes.
One of the things I and the other instructors told them was about the APC and to be careful.
We got more derogatory comments about Oklahoma from that APC warning than anything else.
We also warned them to avoid certain bars because of the public drunk arrests being made.
You can't help what other people do when they come for any kind of business trip but that one sure didn't make many admirers of Oklahoma.
You're not going to keep a drunk from getting drunk.
FWIW.

Not going to keep murderers from murdering either.

Guess we shouldn't enforce it.

Since when do you prevent a murderer from murdering someone?
Are you saying you should arrest someone because he has a gun, knife, baseball bat, etc in his possession and you think he could murder someone with it?
Like arresting someone who is drunk asleep in the back of a car because he has keys in his possession?
There is a difference but I agree with you if you can stop someone from driving drunk. Do it.
Catch him starting the vehicle up and putting it in gear. Not just because he has keys in his pocket.

Posted: 4/4/2011 4:37:24 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Have a buddy in the Marine Corps. Great guy. 100% reliable, never fucked anything up. Iraq+ Afg combat vet. Got a NAM with a V. Meritotiously promoted. Other day he was coming in the main gate at Lejeune after playing a couple of rounds of pool out in town. Well, guess the local buddyfucker on guard duty said he smelled something. Ended up blowing a .09. Carreer down the shitter (military is very harsh on this stuff). All cause a guy drank a couple beers and drove home

What makes this story worse is when MPs come back to base drunk, they just make a phone call to their boy on duty to wave them through.

I locked up 5 fellow MPs for being drunk and stupid on post and it didn't even involve a vehicle.

Posted: 4/4/2011 5:17:09 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
I say bring back prohibition or at least set the legal limit to NOT ONE SINGLE DROP. I don't drink never had one in my life. The world would be a better place without you drunks.

Out of my cold dead hands.

Posted: 4/4/2011 7:18:27 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Damn straight. Stupid JBT's. Even if you just hole up in your house with a golf club practicing swings they still find you.

Sherrick, when I taught at OU I had people come in from all over the country for the two week classes.

One of the things I and the other instructors told them was about the APC and to be careful.

We got more derogatory comments about Oklahoma from that APC warning than anything else.

We also warned them to avoid certain bars because of the public drunk arrests being made.

You can't help what other people do when they come for any kind of business trip but that one sure didn't make many admirers of Oklahoma.

You're not going to keep a drunk from getting drunk.

FWIW.

Not going to keep murderers from murdering either.

Guess we shouldn't enforce it.

Since when do you prevent a murderer from murdering someone?

Are you saying you should arrest someone because he has a gun, knife, baseball bat, etc in his possession and you think he could murder someone with it?

Like arresting someone who is drunk asleep in the back of a car because he has keys in his possession?

There is a difference but I agree with you if you can stop someone from driving drunk. Do it.

Catch him starting the vehicle up and putting it in gear. Not just because he has keys in his pocket.

I have yet to arrest a DUI-APC that wasn't a drunk that had just been driving or was going to drive.

I've never arrested one that was sleeping it off in the back of his car.

If you have a problem with the way the law is written, don't gripe at the cops. Go after the writers.

Posted: 4/4/2011 7:33:53 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
If someone is at a .09 and driving home through a green light and gets T-boned at an intersection by someone texting, who would get in more trouble?

The drunk will, no matter the circumstances. They're too easy a target to lay all the blame on.

Posted: 4/4/2011 7:47:55 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Fuck drunk drivers and those that defend them. That is all.

FOAD yourself, troll.

Posted: 4/4/2011 7:58:03 PM EDT

[#41]

Fucking idiocy abounds in this thread.

I've lost loved ones in a car wreck that involved a drunk driver. Yes, the drunk was at fault. Guess what. The drunk walked away from the accident scratch-free.

Fucking pisses me right-the-fuck off.

Posted: 4/4/2011 8:13:08 PM EDT

[#42]

this is why i drink at home

Posted: 4/5/2011 7:15:54 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Damn straight. Stupid JBT's. Even if you just hole up in your house with a golf club practicing swings they still find you.

Sherrick, when I taught at OU I had people come in from all over the country for the two week classes.
One of the things I and the other instructors told them was about the APC and to be careful.
We got more derogatory comments about Oklahoma from that APC warning than anything else.
We also warned them to avoid certain bars because of the public drunk arrests being made.
You can't help what other people do when they come for any kind of business trip but that one sure didn't make many admirers of Oklahoma.
You're not going to keep a drunk from getting drunk.
FWIW.

Not going to keep murderers from murdering either.

Guess we shouldn't enforce it.

Since when do you prevent a murderer from murdering someone?
Are you saying you should arrest someone because he has a gun, knife, baseball bat, etc in his possession and you think he could murder someone with it?
Like arresting someone who is drunk asleep in the back of a car because he has keys in his possession?
There is a difference but I agree with you if you can stop someone from driving drunk. Do it.
Catch him starting the vehicle up and putting it in gear. Not just because he has keys in his pocket.

I have yet to arrest a DUI-APC that wasn't a drunk that had just been driving or was going to drive.

No disrespect meant, but you're not clairvoyant.

I've never arrested one that was sleeping it off in the back of his car.

Good for you. But that doesn't mean others haven't.

If you have a problem with the way the law is written, don't gripe at the cops. Go after the writers.

I don't have a problem with cops busting drunk drivers. I'm glad they are doing it. I've been through more than one check stop and told them thanks for what they were doing.
As far as trying to do something with our state legislators, I've tried several times.
They don't really care what makes sense or is fair, they just want what will get them votes.
And municipalities want the revenue.

Posted: 4/5/2011 12:23:13 PM EDT

[#44]

Took two drunks to jail last night between 1930 & 0200. a .37% and a .15%

As long as alcohol remains legal to buy sell and consume I'll never have a shortage of work.

Posted: 4/5/2011 12:55:47 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Took two drunks to jail last night between 1930 & 0200. a .37% and a .15%

As long as alcohol remains legal to buy sell and consume I'll never have a shortage of work.

.37? That's getting up into danger zone...

Posted: 4/5/2011 1:10:55 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Took two drunks to jail last night between 1930 & 0200. a .37% and a .15%

As long as alcohol remains legal to buy sell and consume I'll never have a shortage of work.

.37? That's getting up into danger zone...

Same suspect has blown higher in the past. Though at .37 walking unassisted was impossible as was speech. Was only able to respond to questions by shaking head up and down or side to side and the occasional moan.

Posted: 4/5/2011 1:15:16 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
DUI laws are a joke. The limits get lowered based on declining numbers of DUI arrests, not on evidence of making us safer. Right now they just make money for the courts, insurance companies, and the biggest extortionist of the three, MADD. I wouldn't support any increase in penalties until they make the law target dangerous drivers instead of wallets.

Posted: 4/5/2011 1:19:09 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think we should throw the book at people who drive while tired. Seriously if you are tired after a day at work, you have no business in going home.

http://bbtsfd.net/images/fatalwreck.jpg

Do you approve of driving intoxicated? Just yes or no.

Yes.

Posted: 4/5/2011 1:48:25 PM EDT

[#49]

My thought was to put the cement barriers up like construction, so they can be like a slot car all the way home. One lane. Bouncing off the barriers. just an ideal.

Posted: 4/5/2011 10:01:04 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Damn straight. Stupid JBT's. Even if you just hole up in your house with a golf club practicing swings they still find you.

Sherrick, when I taught at OU I had people come in from all over the country for the two week classes.
One of the things I and the other instructors told them was about the APC and to be careful.
We got more derogatory comments about Oklahoma from that APC warning than anything else.
We also warned them to avoid certain bars because of the public drunk arrests being made.
You can't help what other people do when they come for any kind of business trip but that one sure didn't make many admirers of Oklahoma.
You're not going to keep a drunk from getting drunk.
FWIW.

Not going to keep murderers from murdering either.

Guess we shouldn't enforce it.

Since when do you prevent a murderer from murdering someone?
Are you saying you should arrest someone because he has a gun, knife, baseball bat, etc in his possession and you think he could murder someone with it?
Like arresting someone who is drunk asleep in the back of a car because he has keys in his possession?
There is a difference but I agree with you if you can stop someone from driving drunk. Do it.
Catch him starting the vehicle up and putting it in gear. Not just because he has keys in his pocket.

I have yet to arrest a DUI-APC that wasn't a drunk that had just been driving or was going to drive.

No disrespect meant, but you're not clairvoyant.

I've never arrested one that was sleeping it off in the back of his car.

Good for you. But that doesn't mean others haven't.

If you have a problem with the way the law is written, don't gripe at the cops. Go after the writers.

I don't have a problem with cops busting drunk drivers. I'm glad they are doing it. I've been through more than one check stop and told them thanks for what they were doing.
As far as trying to do something with our state legislators, I've tried several times.
They don't really care what makes sense or is fair, they just want what will get them votes.
And municipalities want the revenue.

Front of car up against a light pole. (not a damaging accident)

Sitting in front of 7-11.

Sitting asleep in the roadway with the car off.

Sitting on the side of the road in a remote area.

I'm pretty damn sure they drove there and/or were going to drive away. But then I'm not clairoyant. Maybe I should have just let them go.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Montana Rep. Says DUI Laws Are 'Destroying a Way of Life (Page 7 of 8)

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