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Posted: 5/13/2002 8:18:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 7:52:28 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
I'm not sure if this is old, I just got in on Email: Mideast For Dummies - By Larry Miller A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need. Don't thank me. I'm just a channel. Here we go: The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "WIC", "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the Palestinians" weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation." So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" anymore to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Much In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. NO, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. - - - continued - - - [b]Edited for correct attribution[/b]
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 8:19:02 PM EDT
- - - continued - - - No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course- that's where the real fun is- but mostly they want Israel. Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel, or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it, for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward people on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something. It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one. Chew this around and spit it out: five hundred million Arabs; five million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding. My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death. Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations coming up against Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away. However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11 our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, we tell them to show restraint. If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, would we be listening to fair weather "friends" screaming for the administration to show restraint?
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 8:27:51 PM EDT
Interesting, although I wouldn't say it really [i]sounds[/i] like the Dennis Miller I'm thinking of... [>:/]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 5:34:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2002 4:35:54 AM EDT by Norm_G]
It would be amazing if Dennis Miller ever got this close to getting anything right. Edit: It would really have been amazing if Dennis Mullethead had said this. Larry, I'm less familiar with, but I like his approach.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:08:11 AM EDT
At least Dennis the Menace if off MNF. (at least that's what I remember hearing) As far as the article goes, then Sharone and 60% (according to a VERY recent poll in an Israeli newspaper) of the Jewish peoples must ALSO be [b]"Adjacent Jew Haters"[/b] as they are in favor of an "Adjacent Jew Hater" state. The MOST powerful point he makes is the "adjacent Jew hater" soundbite. And when inflammatory rhetoric is your most substantive point, its time for you to SHUT UP. SHUT UP, Miller.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:19:14 AM EDT
Oh yeah - I guess Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin, George Washington et al were "adjacent British haters" back in 1775, then. Granted, we handled our resentment of British occupation in a MUCH more humane, moral and professional manner. But just because 20 NRA members go and kill someone with a firearm DOES NOT mean the NRA is a bunch of maniacal killers. Just because some Hamas types kill israelis DOES NOT mean all Palestinians are evil. [b]300,000 (or more) palestinians killed NO ONE yesterday. And won't kill anyone ever.[/b] Gosh, the crap in this article is amazing.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:25:08 AM EDT
Who was the last president of Palestine, before Arafat?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:39:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: Who was the last president of Palestine, before Arafat?
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I dunno. Who was prime minister of Israel from AD 70 to 1948??? Fact is, BOTH groups were disorganized, scattered about peoples until the last 100 years or so, and neither needed an official gov't UNTIL the UN (you know, the Communist group freedom loving peoples hate) artificially created Israel. Thereby artificailly creating the need for a Palestinian gov't. (president, etc.)
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:56:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: I dunno. Who was prime minister of Israel from AD 70 to 1948??? Fact is, BOTH groups were disorganized, scattered about peoples until the last 100 years or so, and neither needed an official gov't UNTIL the UN (you know, the Communist group freedom loving peoples hate) artificially created Israel. Thereby artificailly creating the need for a Palestinian gov't. (president, etc.)
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So what it sounds like to me is that neither of them have any actual "divine right" to the land, and that whoever can hold it should keep it. Okay, let's see what happens.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:24:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: So what it sounds like to me is that neither of them have any actual "divine right" to the land, and that whoever can hold it should keep it. Okay, let's see what happens.
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Yer not far off. that's the way teh world works. The US colonies, Great Britain vs. Ireland, etc etc etc. But let's make one thing VERY clear - the US ****CANNOT*** stack the deck against the palestinians the way it currently is now. Take ALL the US aid and $$$$ out of the region, and let the grown ups over there handle the situation as they see fit. Frankly, I think its IMMORAL for the US to be tying Israels hands how we have over the last couple months. Here's my solution: 1. Give the Palestinians their own state (Sharone and 60% of israelis agree with this) NO Isaeli occupation of it. 2. Build a HUGE wall, and keep the palestinains out of Israli areas - even deny all work visas. 3. Rather than speculating teh Palestinians don't want to get jobs and be productive (as the idiot above does in his article) , give them the chance to do so. 4. If Hamas continues its terrorist activities (and it will) then the Palestinian authority has the BURDEN of punishing them. If the Pal Authority doesn't do so (to the best of its ability) give Israel free reign to solve their own problems WITHOUT either US aid, or US interference.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:41:02 AM EDT
Hmmmm I seem to remember something about the French coming to the rescue of a bunch of North American rabble rousers sometime in the late 1770s? I guess they should not have "stacked the deck" as well.....
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:47:14 AM EDT
The problem with your solution, garandman, is that the Arabs will continue to funnel money and arms to their coreligionists. The Arabs see Israel as a step backward on the glorious march toward worldwide Islam. A big blot of self-determining Jews in the middle of the territory they have already gone to the trouble to subjugate once is never going to play for them. If Iran sends Arafat's people arms and the Saudis pay for suicide bombers, how can the world object to the US sending the Israelis a gunship or two? Now, if Americans object to their tax money being spent in that manner, they need to get on the phone to their Senators and Representatives about it. Don't forget to bitch about the money we spend in Muslim countries in the region as well: Egypt, Jordan, etc.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:04:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: The problem with your solution, garandman, is that the Arabs will continue to funnel money and arms to their coreligionists. If Iran sends Arafat's people arms and the Saudis pay for suicide bombers,
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But you just said....
So what it sounds like to me is that neither of them have any actual "divine right" to the land, and that whoever can hold it should keep it. Okay, let's see what happens.
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The way I read this is IF its Israel vs. 300K rag tag palestinians ( a deck sufficiently stacked to guarantee israels victory), then you favor non-interference, but if other Arabs chip in, then you retract your "let's see what happens" scenario. Stated another way, you don't care what happens, as long as Israel wins.
how can the world object to the US sending the Israelis a gunship or two?
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Well, I gotta imagine the ENTIRE Arab world would object. Even the peace-loving, suicide-bomb hating ones. And that's not to mention the rest of the un-biased world, that like me wishes the US fund the war machines of NEITHER Israel, nor the Arab states. "The friend of my enemy is my enemy." The major thing we've bought with our dollars to Israel is the ire of the Arab world. Even the peace-loving ones. And your "gunship or two" line is naieve in the extreme. Its BILLIONS of dollars ANNUALLY, jarhead. But we've been thru this a dozen dozen times.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:43:19 AM EDT
Garandman, where do you get 300k Palestinians? Is that some kind of militant estimate? Total population on W. Bank and Gaza estimate 1998 is 2.9 million.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:47:31 AM EDT
Here's the original article: [url]http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/161yaihr.asp[/url]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:05:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: The way I read this is IF its Israel vs. 300K rag tag palestinians ( a deck sufficiently stacked to guarantee israels victory), then you favor non-interference, but if other Arabs chip in, then you retract your "let's see what happens" scenario. Stated another way, you don't care what happens, as long as Israel wins.
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The fact is that the Arabs/Muslims only care about the folks popularly known as Palestinians inasmuch as they serve as a proxy army to drive the Israelis into the Mediterranean. Are you trying to say that Israel vs. the entire Arab world is a fair fight? And either way, is that what you feel the overall goal for the region should be...a fair fight?
Well, I gotta imagine the ENTIRE Arab world would object. Even the peace-loving, suicide-bomb hating ones.
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And what right do they have to object, seeing as they are funneling money and arms to those popularly known as Palestinians?
And that's not to mention the rest of the un-biased world, that like me wishes the US fund the war machines of NEITHER Israel, nor the Arab states.
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Please enumerate the nations that comprise the "un-biased world," if you would.
"The friend of my enemy is my enemy." The major thing we've bought with our dollars to Israel is the ire of the Arab world. Even the peace-loving ones.
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The Arab world hates us because we stand in the way of a Muslim world ruled under Sharia law. And please point out the "peace-loving" Arab nations.
And your "gunship or two" line is naieve in the extreme. Its BILLIONS of dollars ANNUALLY, jarhead.
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I know exactly how much it is, thanks. That was understated sarcasm, but I'll keep in mind that you don't appreciate it.
But we've been thru this a dozen dozen times.
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I'm no wide eyed, victory-at-all-costs Israeli partisan, but I try to look at each situation as it comes up, keeping in mind the history of the region and the geopolitical realities at work. I understand that you object to the Israelis on some visceral level, as well as to US funds being expended to support them. I'm certainly not trying to convince you to change your mind, but I'm not going to remain silent if I disagree.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:20:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Fact is, BOTH groups were disorganized, scattered about peoples until the last 100 years or so, and neither needed an official gov't UNTIL the UN (you know, the Communist group freedom loving peoples hate) artificially created Israel. Thereby artificailly creating the need for a Palestinian gov't. (president, etc.)
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And all of the Arab states were artificially created by Britian earlier in the century . . . But the need for a Palestinian homeland seems to have been created by the 1967 Israeli conquest of parts of Jordan and Egypt . . .
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:26:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: The MOST powerful point he makes is the "adjacent Jew hater" soundbite. And when inflammatory rhetoric is your most substantive point, its time for you to SHUT UP. SHUT UP, Miller.
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LOL...you disagree with him, so he should shut up? That's rich.
But let's make one thing VERY clear - the US ****CANNOT*** stack the deck against the palestinians the way it currently is now.
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Why the hell not. I LIKE the way the deck is stacked.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:39:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ElmerFudd: Garandman, where do you get 300k Palestinians? Is that some kind of militant estimate? Total population on W. Bank and Gaza estimate 1998 is 2.9 million.
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Mine was a low-ball, conservative guess. But I gladly stand corrected, as it makes my point. [b]2,800,000 (or more) Palestinians killed NO ONE yesterday. And won't kill anyone ever.[/b]
originally by jarhead_22: Are you trying to say that Israel vs. the entire Arab world is a fair fight? And either way, is that what you feel the overall goal for the region should be...a fair fight?
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Yes, and yes(more or less) If the ENTIRE ARAB WORLD (thundering ominous music) vs. poor, helpless, defenseless little Israel (tinkerbell music) were a reality, and were not a blatant lie that some good people have unwittingly swallowed, then the Arabs would have LONG AGO done just exactly what those "good people" who keep regurgitating the lie claim - they would have driven israel into the sea. And the fact that the Arabs haven't, with all their oil wealth, and inherited wealth, done that, puts the lie to the fallacious claim that the Arabs seek the eradication of israel. More likely, the power-brokers in the Arab community are willing to let suicide bombings continue as it solidifies their power base. (which is fairly reprehensible in and of itself.) And a few low level, unfunded , powerless zealots DO seek the eradication of Israel. And YES, if someone is asking my opinion, I'd prefer a fair fight. However, I am NOT willing to violate the US Constitution, and invoke the principles of Marxism (progressive, repressive taxation, class struggle, etc) to achieve it for EITHER bunch of dirtbags.
I understand that you object to the Israelis on some visceral level,
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That simply is not true. Rhetoric like that is USUALLY used to simply demonize the other side of the debate, and is a-typical of your usual objectivity. I'm surprised you lower yourself to it now. In this thead I've stated I wish to see Israel free from US interference in their internal politics. How is that "visceral objection" to Israel?? [rolleyes]
as well as to US funds being expended to support them.
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That IS true, for the Constitutional and anti-Marxism reasons stated above.
I'm certainly not trying to convince you to change your mind, but I'm not going to remain silent if I disagree.
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I don't expect you to. As hinted at above, you are one of the few Israel supporters I feel I can have a rational discussion with. Let's endeavor to keep it that way.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 10:25:08 AM EDT
Larry Miller is the guy who owns "Sit n' Sleep", a big mattress retailer here in LA. He sounds Jewish in the commercials but I doubt he's the author.
4. If Hamas continues its terrorist activities (and it will) then the Palestinian authority has the BURDEN of punishing them. If the Pal Authority doesn't do so (to the best of its ability) give Israel free reign to solve their own problems WITHOUT either US aid, or US interference.
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As you state Hamas will not quit and is popular and more importantly...feared.... by Palestinians. A Palestinian state will not change anything if the same characters (Arafat and his cronies) become government officials although we could hope they would fight amongst themselves for the booty they could loot through a kleptocracy, a common form of government all over the world. .
"The friend of my enemy is my enemy."
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A problematic quote. Does the "enemy of my friend become my enemy?" Much too simplistic in any day and age but it does point up the good advice of avoiding entangling alliances.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 10:55:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By nightstalker: Larry Miller is the guy who owns "Sit n' Sleep", a big mattress retailer here in LA. He sounds Jewish in the commercials but I doubt he's the author.
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Yeah, a mattress salesman has all the credibility of a used car salesman. [}:D] No offense to used car salesmen. [:D]
As you state Hamas will not quit and is popular and more importantly...feared.... by Palestinians. A Palestinian state will not change anything if the same characters (Arafat and his cronies) become government officials although we could hope they would fight amongst themselves for the booty they could loot through a kleptocracy, a common form of government all over the world. .
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THANK YOU for a dispassionate reply, free of phrases like "you have a visceral dislike for Israel." Its SOOOOO much easier to have meaningful exchange of ideas. You may be right about an Arafat led Palestinian state. But I think there is a chance Arafat could POSSBILY (and I'll admit the possibility is small) head up a legitimate, democratic, non-terrorist state IF he were given the chance. The fact is that humans often act like animals when they are [b]forced[/b] to do so. If Arafat were given a land to call home, where he could accumulate wealth and "ties to the land" chances are he WOULD NOT be willing to risk all that in associating with groups like Hamas. I'll admit, it'd be a risk, but I think its a risk that MUST be taken BEFORE we talk about "taking him out." THEN, and ONLY then, if he STILL proves to be "an animal" then I am all for him "meeting his maker."
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 11:00:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By nightstalker: Larry Miller is the guy who owns "Sit n' Sleep", a big mattress retailer here in LA. He sounds Jewish in the commercials but I doubt he's the author.
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Yeah, a mattress salesman has all the credibility of a used car salesman. [}:D] No offense to used car salesmen. [:D]
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[url=http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/161yaihr.asp]Larry Miller[/url]is a contributing humorist to The Daily Standard and a writer, actor, and comedian living in Los Angeles.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 11:31:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Sounds 'Jewish' does he? Hmmmm. Eric The(GentleGentile)Hun[>]:)]
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SOUNDS like a Sharon sphincter-dweller. [}:D] Does he live near you???? [}:D]
originally by Macallan: Larry Miller is a contributing humorist to The Daily Standard and a writer, actor, and comedian living in Los Angeles.
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A comedian?? Really???? let's see.....
originally by Larry Miller: No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course- that's where the real fun is.....they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward people on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something.
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yeah, THAT's a real knee-slapper, a veritable belly buster. I laughed for all of like 1/2 nanosecond. Actually, all kidding aside, Miller sounds like just another run of the mill anti-Semitic hater to me, who congratulates himself on the fact that the group he currently hates is the politically-correct group to hate, amongst so-called "conservatives." (And I use the term "conservatives" VERY loosely, for all the conservative principles they abandon in turning America into a fiefdom for political israel.)
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 11:38:09 AM EDT
Jeepers, [b]garandman[/b], I just ditched the 'sounds Jewish' post 'cause I thought it sounded rude. For a Christian child, you sure do have a lotta devil smileys in your posts![:D] And what's this fixation with sphincters? Eric The(SettleDownNow)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 11:42:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 11:43:10 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By garandman:
originally by Macallan: Larry Miller is a contributing humorist to The Daily Standard and a writer, actor, and comedian living in Los Angeles.
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A comedian?? Really???? let's see.....
originally by Larry Miller: No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course- that's where the real fun is.....they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward people on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something.
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yeah, THAT's a real knee-slapper, a veritable belly buster. I laughed for all of like 1/2 nanosecond. Actually, all kidding aside, Miller sounds like just another run of the mill anti-Semitic hater to me, who congratulates himself on the fact that the group he currently hates is the politically-correct group to hate, amongst so-called "conservatives." (And I use the term "conservatives" VERY loosely, for all the conservative principles they abandon in turning America into a fiefdom for political israel.)
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Yes, he's a comedian. One of my favorites for many years. He's VERY funny - dry, razor-sharp wit, laser-guided sarcasm and the occasional (but still refreshingly rare) eviscerating choice of verbage. But he's also a writer - maybe that's what threw you off - he's not ALWAYS a comedian so not EVERYTHING he writes has a Henny Youngman-rimshot ending. If you ever saw him on stage as a stand-up comic, you might think he's got quite a sharp sense of humor. But to each his own - believe it or not, some people actually think Jackie Gleason was funny too! [%|]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 11:47:05 AM EDT
I remember a classic Larry Miller monologue that was basically in praise of the WWII generation. Larry was talking about his father's generation and said that his father had faced the Great Depression, went through WWII in Europe, came home went to school on the GI Bill, raised a family and put three kids through school. 'Me, if I have to go to the bank and the dry cleaners in the same afternoon, I need a nap!' Bada-bing! Eric The(INeedANapJustReadingAboutWWII)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 11:54:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Jeepers, [b]garandman[/b], I just ditched the 'sounds Jewish' post 'cause I thought it sounded rude.
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[b]NOW [/b]yer suddenly concerned about rudeness?? When you have BOTH associated me with Arafat (whom you consider a terrorist) AND you ACTUALLY SAID that I am hoping for another Sept 11 attack. ????? You expect me to believe rudeness is something you try to avoid, when you have demeaned my charachter in these ways???? (Don't INSULT me now by using the old Democrat "I was just kidding" crapola excuse. Those are things you NEVER kid about) I'd request an apology for your rudeness to me, bit I already KNOW it'd be a waste of time. PLEASE Eric, your sudden concern about rudeness has all the credibility of Clinton actually being a dog-lover. (RIP, Buddy the dog) Well, other than bowsers like Monica anyway.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 12:36:50 PM EDT
Post from garandman -
NOW yer suddenly concerned about rudeness??
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Not with you being rude, that's a given, but with my own rudeness by chastising someone for saying that someone 'sounded Jewish.'
When you have BOTH associated me with Arafat...
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Associated you with Arafat? Why, 'cause you're always spouting the PLO party line?[:D]
(whom you consider a terrorist)
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You [u]don't[/u] consider Arafat a terrorist? See there is considerable difference in our views.
AND you ACTUALLY SAID that I am hoping for another Sept 11 attack. ?????
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You'll have to refresh my memory on that one, but I do remember that you said that Israel was capable of having launched the Sept 11th attack! That was pretty gutless! You don't even know who America's enemies are!
You expect me to believe rudeness is something you try to avoid, when you have demeaned my charachter in these ways????
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That's odd, I usually allow someone's character to speak for itself.
(Don't INSULT me now by using the old Democrat "I was just kidding" crapola excuse. Those are things you NEVER kid about)
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When I am joking, it is very obvious I am joking. When I'm serious, I'm usually as serious as a heart attack.
I'd request an apology for your rudeness to me, bit I already KNOW it'd be a waste of time.
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We've danced this friggin pirouette so often, [b]garandman[/b], it's getting very tiresome indeed to even play these little games. Based upon all of your posts, it is simply very, very obvious that you f***ing hate Israel, and you're not too gulldurn happy about Jews, IMHO. But before you accuse me of being rude, just understand that this is what your constant, unrelieved vitriol against Israel has led me to believe about you. If you don't think the way I've described, then you owe Israel and the Jews an apology. When you apologize to Israel and the Jews, then I will consider that as sufficient cause for me to apologize to you for these false and unsubstantiated charges. Fair enough? Eric The(Sphincter-FreeZone)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 12:58:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 1:07:42 PM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Based upon all of your posts, it is simply very, very obvious that you f***ing hate Israel, and you're not too gulldurn happy about Jews, IMHO.
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So when it all boils down, you've got little else in your argumentary / logical arsenal than to call those who DARE disagree with you "antiSemitic, Jew haters." And smear my charachter by attempting toassociate mem with known terrorists like Arafat, and claim I wish for another Sept. 11 attack. Incredible. Un-credible. Shameful. Pitiable, really. BTW- Was you use of the f-word against me, whom you have ad nauseum called you "Christian brother," part of your campaign to eliminate "rudeness" from your posts?? Of course it was - you are ONLY sensitive to rudeness against Jewish persons. And feel free to use it against Christian brothers. I ask for an apology - I get cursed at. Thanks, "brother." Given your apparent inability to apologize, I'll pray for your wife, that she bear up under your unrepentant, stony heart.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 1:08:38 PM EDT
No, [b]garandman[/b], what it incredible or pitiful is that you can't seem to deny what I believe about you! And you know [u]why[/u] you can't, don't you? For after all of your posts, it might tend to ring a bit hollow! So tell me about my sojourn in Sharon's sphincter again, oh Decent and Holy one? [:D] Eric The(YouSee?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 1:19:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Based upon all of your posts, it is simply very, very obvious that you f***ing hate Israel, and you're not too gulldurn happy about Jews, IMHO. But before you accuse me of being rude, just understand that this is what your constant, unrelieved vitriol against Israel has led me to believe about you.
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Ahh, yes the devil made you do it. What other sins have you committed that OTHERS will have to give an account to God for?? So I take it you are NOT an advocate of personal responsibility, and you think "black rage" to be justifiable, given any real white oppression.
If you don't think the way I've described, then you owe Israel and the Jews an apology. When you apologize to Israel and the Jews, then I will consider that as sufficient cause for me to apologize to you for these false and unsubstantiated charges. Fair enough? Eric The(Sphincter-FreeZone)Hun[>]:)]
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So two wrongs DO make a right. And to think my momma misled me all those years. Actually, YES, according to the Talmud two wrongs DO make a right. Yer revealing yourself more every day. However, according to the Torah, two wrongs are STILL two wrongs. I'll defend EVERYTHING I've said in this forum without apology. Broadcast it from the rooftops - I have nothing to hide. I suspect there's a word or two in here you might not want yer CofC brethren to see. [}:D]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 1:23:59 PM EDT
Post from garandman -
Was you use of the f-word against me, whom you have ad nauseum called you "Christian brother," part of your campaign to eliminate "rudeness" from your posts??
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The word was carefully chosen, trust me. It is the only word that I could come up with that would adequately cover my opinion of how you think about Israel! Too bad that it was a vulgarity!
Of course it was - you are ONLY sensitive to rudeness against Jewish persons.
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See how you've contorted yourself in this case. This all started when I deleted my own post that pointed out the problem with saying that someone 'sounded Jewish.' If it had been said that someone 'sounded Black' would you have been offended?
And feel free to use it against Christian brothers. I ask for an apology - I get cursed at. Thanks, "brother."
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As I've said before, we've played these little games too long to determine that either of us is likely to change. You may continue to hate Israel with all of your mind, body, and soul. I will continue to defend Israel against baseless attacks. Simple as that! Eric The(GentleGentile)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 1:29:06 PM EDT
Post from garandman -
I suspect there's a word or two in here you might not want yer CofC brethren to see.
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Now why would that be? The Lord Himself can clearly see what I've written, even before I wrote it, for it is in my heart. What do I need to worry about whether my fellow laborers in His Vineyard learn of my thoughts or not? Eric The(MyAngerIsKindledForALittleBit,ItWillGoWit­hTheSettingOfTheSun}Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 1:29:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: No, [b]garandman[/b], what it incredible or pitiful is that you can't seem to deny what I believe about you!
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I don't spend much time denying preposterous charges, like the "you hate Israel" tired old mantra. Ther's nothing I could do to convince you, other than to agree with you 100% and become your lackey. For others in this forum, I'll let the greater body of my posts stand for themselves. Or to put it in terms a Texan could understand - "Never wrestle in the mud with pigs. You'll both get dirty, but the pig will like it."
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 1:32:01 PM EDT
No, [b]garandman[/b], if I am not mistaken, that is the very first time that I have ever said that I was of the opinion that you hated Israel. I may have thought it, but I never said it out loud. But this gets extremely old, extremely fast. Take care. See you on another Anti-friggin-Israel thread! Eric The(Ciao!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:35:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: [b]2,800,000 (or more) Palestinians killed NO ONE yesterday. And won't kill anyone ever.[/b]
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Well yippee skippy. Who elected Arafat then, and his coterie of killers and scumbags? A majority, wasn't it?
If the ENTIRE ARAB WORLD (thundering ominous music) vs. poor, helpless, defenseless little Israel (tinkerbell music) were a reality, and were not a blatant lie that some good people have unwittingly swallowed, then the Arabs would have LONG AGO done just exactly what those "good people" who keep regurgitating the lie claim - they would have driven israel into the sea. And the fact that the Arabs haven't, with all their oil wealth, and inherited wealth, done that, puts the lie to the fallacious claim that the Arabs seek the eradication of israel. More likely, the power-brokers in the Arab community are willing to let suicide bombings continue as it solidifies their power base. (which is fairly reprehensible in and of itself.) And a few low level, unfunded , powerless zealots DO seek the eradication of Israel.
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You don't feel that "entire Arab world" is an accurate statement of the facts? With Saudi Arabia sending in their blood money for the families of suicide bombers and Iran and others supplying arms and explosives? If I pay someone else to kill my business partner, I'm still a murderer, right? The only reason the "entire Arab world" doesn't push the Israelis west into the sea is that they know there will be Tomahawks in the air the minute they tried. Right or wrong, America has pledged to keep the Israelis afloat. The simple fact is that it is, or very recently was, the stated goal of all of Arabia to work toward the eradication of Israel. [b](cont'd.)[/b]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:36:35 PM EDT
[b](cont'd)[/b]
And YES, if someone is asking my opinion, I'd prefer a fair fight. However, I am NOT willing to violate the US Constitution, and invoke the principles of Marxism (progressive, repressive taxation, class struggle, etc) to achieve it for EITHER bunch of dirtbags.
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That simply is not true. Rhetoric like that is USUALLY used to simply demonize the other side of the debate, and is a-typical of your usual objectivity. I'm surprised you lower yourself to it now.
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In one breath you call the Israelis dirtbags, and in the next you castigate me for pointing out that you object to them and everything about them. Does this fly in the face of reason, or is it just me?
In this thead I've stated I wish to see Israel free from US interference in their internal politics. How is that "visceral objection" to Israel?? [rolleyes]
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Please! You want to see them free from US money and US support. That's all. You have no more concern for their politics than the man on the moon.
As hinted at above, you are one of the few Israel supporters I feel I can have a rational discussion with. Let's endeavor to keep it that way.
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I support Israel only when it acts in a supportable fashion. Do a search on "Jarhead_22" and "USS Liberty" or "Jarhead_22" and "Pollard." Also, if you want to have rational discussions with people, you should avoid calling them liars, even in the most backhanded fashion.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 5:18:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By garandman: [b]2,800,000 (or more) Palestinians killed NO ONE yesterday. And won't kill anyone ever.[/b]
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Well yippee skippy. Who elected Arafat then, and his coterie of killers and scumbags? A majority, wasn't it?
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As I learned recently, Arafat was indeed elected by a majority - MOSTLY BECAUSE HE WAS THE ****** ONLY ***** NAME ON THE BALLOT. Given the choice between a dirtbag to represent their interests globally, and NO ONE to represent their interests globally, they chose a dirtbag. While I may not like their choice, I can understand their choice. Tie that thought in with this.....
The simple fact is that it is, or very recently was, the stated goal of all of Arabia to work toward the eradication of Israel.
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It is this type of naievete that is skewing US policy in teh Middle East. Let me illustrate with a hypothetical US scenario. I'm an NRA Life Member, which means I'm more committed to the NRA / involved in the NRA than prolly 75% of its members. Now, let's say I eventually work myself into a position of authority - say Southeatern representative. that would then make me more involved than prolly 95% of its members. Finally, in our hypothetical, lets say I write a letter to the editor, or call a press conference and say "The stated goal of all of [strike]Arabia [/strike] [b] the NRA[/b]is to work toward the eradication of [strike]Israel[/strike] [b]Democrats[/b]." Does that make it true??? Does my hypothetical statement mean that's what the leadership of the NRA thinks, or that the majority of the 4 million + members agrees with me??? If you are an Israel supporter, it seems to me the answer to that is YES, if you apply the thinking they use for the Middle East to my hypothetical scenario. Just take a look in the increased aggressiveness toward me of our resident Israel apologist, Eric, that occurred in this thread. Even [b]he[/b] admits he now thinks I [b] hate Israel[/b] (Nothing could be further from the truth) Here's my suspicion why his personal attacks on me just ratcheted up - IF EVER America comes to understand that Arabs are NOT monolithic in their beleifs / political activism, that their society is INFINITELY complex, that they hate each other often MORE than they hate Israel, AND ESPECIALLY that just because some zealot says all Arabs must work toward the eradication of Israel, THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT SO, then the ENTIRE corrupt facade of "poor pathetic Israel" crumbles in the US, and the dollars start to dwindle away, as the ability to GUILT people into the unConsitutional, Marxist funding of foreign gov'ts (ALL of them, not just Israel) gives way to more traditionally Conservative roles of gov't (i.e, STOPPING the bleeding of the citizenry from progressive oppressive taxation, and the supremacy of the doctrine of American sovereignty, rather than of one-worldism.) ALWAYS follow the money, my friend. Its all about the money. And just like Arab society is NOT monolithically represented by the Arafats and the bin Ladens, Jewish society is NOT monolithically represented by the Sharons, Netanyahus, and Perez-types of money grabbers. Always follow the money.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 5:24:15 AM EDT
That all time peace seeker "Benny the Net" is coming. For all you Israel-Only folks so this must be akin to the vaunted "Second Coming." (Unless you are Jewish and then I guess it would be the first coming of the diety who has already been here once.)
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 5:31:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: I support Israel only when it acts in a supportable fashion. Do a search on "Jarhead_22" and "USS Liberty" or "Jarhead_22" and "Pollard."
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These threads have HIGHLIGHTED to me your objectivity, and fostered a desire to pursue the debate with you.
Also, if you want to have rational discussions with people, you should avoid calling them liars, even in the most backhanded fashion.
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I'm not sure of the specific incident you may be referring to, but it was not my intention to do so. All I can think of is above where I put two of your statements side by side. My intent was to show error in your logic, NOT in your honesty. If I have done other than my intent, then my words were poorly chosen, I was wrong, I apologize, and I ask your forgiveness. (To me, wrongly attacking a man's integrity is contemptible. Let it never be true that I have done so. And if I have, may I always be quick to apologize)
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 5:38:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2002 5:54:20 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: So tell me about my sojourn in Sharon's sphincter again, ..........[:D] Eric The(YouSee?)Hun[>]:)]
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(I reluctantly agree to comply with your request.) ----------------------------------------------- It was the best of trips. It was the worst of trips. This sojurn began quietly as had most of my previous. Lord Sharon had conveniently assumed his favorite position of sitting near my face and I had no problems breaching the protective layers of fat and quietly beginning my 'sphincter assault'. My first hint of trouble came when my digital Fart-O-Meter detected the first rumblings of what turned out to be a Fart of the silent but deadly type. I immediately donned my gas mask and would have weathered this incursion deep into Lord Sharon's bowels (after all, I had made this trip on numerous previous occasions) but for some reason my digital flashlight picked that moment to fail. Still there would have been few problems that could not be over come had I not picked that moment to strike the 'MATCH' ! Excepting loss of most of my hair hair and a good portion of my facial hair I'm recovering nicely. Excerpted from: Sojurns Through Sharon's Sphincter, HUN, E.T., Single Day 2002, page 1
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 6:42:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: So tell me about my sojourn in Sharon's sphincter again, ..........[:D] Eric The(YouSee?)Hun[>]:)]
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(I reluctantly agree to comply with your request.) ----------------------------------------------- It was the best of trips. It was the worst of trips. This sojurn began quietly as had most of my previous. Lord Sharon had conveniently assumed his favorite position of sitting near my face and I had no problems breaching the protective layers of fat and quietly beginning my 'sphincter assault'. My first hint of trouble came when my digital Fart-O-Meter detected the first rumblings of what turned out to be a Fart of the silent but deadly type. I immediately donned my gas mask and would have weathered this incursion deep into Lord Sharon's bowels (after all, I had made this trip on numerous previous occasions) but for some reason my digital flashlight picked that moment to fail. Still there would have been few problems that could not be over come had I not picked that moment to strike the 'MATCH' ! Excepting loss of most of my hair hair and a good portion of my facial hair I'm recovering nicely. Excerpted from: Sojurns Through Sharon's Sphincter, HUN, E.T., Single Day 2002, page 1
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I try and I try to follow the HUN's requests but not even a thank you ?
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 7:02:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: As I learned recently, Arafat was indeed elected by a majority - MOSTLY BECAUSE HE WAS THE ****** ONLY ***** NAME ON THE BALLOT. Given the choice between a dirtbag to represent their interests globally, and NO ONE to represent their interests globally, they chose a dirtbag. While I may not like their choice, I can understand their choice.
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I can't understand that choice. They ought to run a suicide bomber into Arafat's headquarters and start over with free multiparty elections rather than blow up discos and pizza joints, or allowing others to blow up discos and pizza joints in their name.
It is this type of naievete that is skewing US policy in teh Middle East. Let me illustrate with a hypothetical US scenario. I'm an NRA Life Member, which means I'm more committed to the NRA / involved in the NRA than prolly 75% of its members...snip...
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Your NRA analogy aside, we've all seen video of the folks in Ramallah dancing for joy on September 12th. Regardless of what they put in their slick TV ads here, you can go to [url]www.memri.org[/url] and read what the Saudis and Egyptians and Kuwaitis really think. Am I the only one who has seen thronging demonstrations of people chanting death to America and Israel, burning and stomping on US and Israeli flags? Islam can only go forward. Nothing must be allowed to reverse the spreading ink-blot on the globe that is Islam. Anywhere in the world that Muslims can get on television, they call for more suicide bombers and the destruction of Israel. It's not just Saudi princes and Iranian ayatollahs and Hamas spokesmen. It's jewelry store owner in New Jersey who says that he would be proud to send his only son to "Palestine" as a suicide bomber. It's the masses of people barely restrained by the ruling party in Pakistan. With some recent, notable exceptions, the rulers and the mullahs and the people of the Muslim world are and have been calling for the destruction of Israel. According to an Iranian imam I saw on NOVA the other night, it is a Koranic truth that anytime Muslims are in a fight with non-Muslims, all Muslims are obligated to come to their fellow Muslims' defense. Their religion and god do not obligate them to fight on the side of right and truth, mind you, but on the side of their coreligionists. The Torah and the Bible say fight for right, while the Koran says fight for Muslims. The Muslim world is one of 12th century ideas and notions. Western ideals and principles don't apply there. Maybe I should have said that it's the Muslim world, instead of the Arab world, that has pledged itself to the destruction of Israel.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 7:09:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: Also, if you want to have rational discussions with people, you should avoid calling them liars, even in the most backhanded fashion.
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I'm not sure of the specific incident you may be referring to, but it was not my intention to do so. All I can think of is above where I put two of your statements side by side. My intent was to show error in your logic, NOT in your honesty. If I have done other than my intent, then my words were poorly chosen, I was wrong, I apologize, and I ask your forgiveness. (To me, wrongly attacking a man's integrity is contemptible. Let it never be true that I have done so. And if I have, may I always be quick to apologize)
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This is the statment to which I was referring:
If the ENTIRE ARAB WORLD (thundering ominous music) vs. poor, helpless, defenseless little Israel (tinkerbell music) were a reality, and were not a blatant lie that some good people have unwittingly swallowed, then the Arabs would have LONG AGO done just exactly what those "good people" who keep regurgitating the lie claim - they would have driven israel into the sea.
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You need to be more careful about making accusations without evidence. I quoted you calling the Israelis dirtbags and morally equating them to the "Palestinians," as you have frequently in the past, when you objected to my "visceral objection" comment. "Good people regurgitating the lie?" You believe it's untrue. That is not the same as "It's a lie."
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 7:39:00 PM EDT
Just an aside...Dennis Miller just mentioned in his monologue that people were complimenting him on the piece Mac quoted at the beginning and he wanted to say that it was done by LARRY Miller, a friend of his...but for those who thought it was too conservative for Dennis Miller, he said it was a very intelligent piece and he approved of it.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 8:00:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2002 2:40:10 PM EDT
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