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Posted: 5/13/2002 1:48:39 PM EDT
I just heard there has been another unsubstantiated threat against the US on or around July 4 of this year. This threat involves a possible strike on nuclear power plants. I live in a good area overall, but there is a plant probably 100 miles to my south or southwest...maybe a little farther. What would be the minimum safe distance be from one of these things should something happen? Would the wind be the most important factor? Just wondering so I can decide whether to prepare a bug-out bag or keep in place. I guess better to be prepared than not. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 1:54:51 PM EDT
There is a story about that one on Foxnews. Ben
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 1:57:37 PM EDT
At 100 miles I would be considering the prevailing wind patterns and the water supply.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 1:59:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:01:42 PM EDT
Time for the sodium iodate!
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:03:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: I can see three from my bedroom window, are you implying this is bad?
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Nawww - just sleep on the couch !
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:07:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:11:38 PM EDT
Read up on the Three Mile incident and especially Chernobyl. That should give you some nonhypothetical information.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:17:05 PM EDT
"Flip on the lights and siren, speed out to the house, grab the wife and kids and head south as fast as the patrol car will go."
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That man is no fool. They may not be amused but they will be dead or their balls will fall off. But not this guys.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:17:57 PM EDT
Neither one of those are good examples for what you want. Three mile island had no containment breach, so that isn't any good. Chernobyl had a breach/explosion, but that was due to the moderator and coolant used. I agree though at 100 miles, I would be checking out the wind patterns in the area. If you are up wind, you are good to go, but radiation spreads pretty far. We found higher readings due to chernobyl on our side of the world.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:18:05 PM EDT
I would suggest staying at least 92,500,000 miles away.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:22:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 2:30:36 PM EDT by Benjamin0001]
What does FEMA expect... I don't want to hear , "NO CAUSE FOR ALARM THIS IS STANDARD OPERATION AND PROTOCOL" As a huge green glowing cloud appears over their heads in the distance. Nah No Thanks. I will hand him a bottle of aspirin, Saying "I think you will need these." as I turn and hall ass. Just because your local FEMA guy appears in control doesn't mean shit. I have appeared in control when the SHTF before. STOICISM doesn't mean in Control of anything. Deer appear IN CONTROL when they refuse to move right about the time they get smacked down on the Highway. Nah. A WORD TO THE WISE, If all of a sudden you feel like an Extra in, "Dr. StrangeLove " Or "How I learned to stop worrying and Love the Bomb." RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.I might be the most American person alive , I love my country, but I also know stupidity when I see or hear it. Ben
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:32:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: I can see three from my bedroom window, are you implying this is bad?
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You and me both. And I live on an island with only a few ways off (all through NYC). Oh well, free Xrays for life [:D]
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:41:34 PM EDT
we will all be glowing some day anyway.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:51:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 2:55:39 PM EDT by sniped]
Originally Posted By cyrax777: we will all be glowing some day anyway.
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I already glow [:D] a pretty hue of mint green, I live near Hanford or TriCities WA one of the biggest fest pools of radiation. With that said I'm screw since I'm at ground zero. But I rather not be 100 miles away and die a slow death, I'm not trying to be morbid its a real threat in the times we live in. Have you paid your fire insurance lately
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 2:57:10 PM EDT
Have you paid your fire Insurance??? Doesn't matter as most Companies now doing insurance are changing their policies to NOT include acts of terrorism. That probably also means secondary consequences as well. Ben
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 3:37:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: Have you paid your fire Insurance??? Doesn't matter as most Companies now doing insurance are changing their policies to NOT include acts of terrorism. That probably also means secondary consequences as well. Ben
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Sorry Ben, I wasn't referring to homeowners insurance, your policy excludes nuclear issues anyway. I was referring to(in a sarcastic way) about afterlife insurance
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:10:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: We have three nukes outside town and FEMA (I think) was here running one of the disaster drills. Some of the local police were there and they asked one of the deputies what he was to do if he was on duty and heard the siren go- "Flip on the lights and siren, speed out to the house, grab the wife and kids and head south as fast as the patrol car will go." They were not amused.
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Hahahah nice... hey, he was just being an "H-Hole"
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:12:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: What does FEMA expect... I don't want to hear , "NO CAUSE FOR ALARM THIS IS STANDARD OPERATION AND PROTOCOL" As a huge green glowing cloud appears over their heads in the distance. Ben
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No no, it goes like this: "Move along people, nothing to see here!"
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:28:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 4:31:02 PM EDT by Spade]
I live about a 40 mile drive north of a decent sized nuke plant and in our phone book it has a map with a big circle around it marking the evacuation area of the plant ever went completly critical (which is an event just short of impossible. That nuke plant uses the wrong stuff, and not nearly enough to make a mushroom cloud). The circle stops about 10 miles to my south. (I'd still head west, but I wouldn't have to, in theory). In any event, as long as you don't live right next door to the damn thing (sorry Aimless) you should be okay. All of those people died at Chernobyl because they didn't evacuate and had prolonged exposure. As long as you are out of the area within 12 hours of the "event" you should be okay. Just wash really well in a shower and clean your car. *edit: Except for the firefighters and the plant workers at Chernobyl, but they really didn't have a chance.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:44:40 PM EDT
[url]http://www.nei.org/documents/maps/statebystate/[/url] Plant locations. I'me about 80 miles due south of three plants. Hopefully the wind will blow east.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:58:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: As a huge green glowing cloud appears over their heads in the distanceBen
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Y'all been watching 'The China Syndrome' too much. You know, the one with that famed nuclear physicist, Jane Fonda.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 5:03:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 5:21:25 PM EDT
Y'all been watching 'The China Syndrome' too much. You know, the one with that famed nuclear physicist, Jane Fonda.
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The last time I saw the China Syndrome it was the Saturday Night Live nock off. [size=6]THE PEPSI SYNDROME![/size=6] No really , I was just bringing into perspective something. Concerning this post.
We have three nukes outside town and FEMA (I think) was here running one of the disaster drills. Some of the local police were there and they asked one of the deputies what he was to do if he was on duty and heard the siren go- "Flip on the lights and siren, speed out to the house, grab the wife and kids and head south as fast as the patrol car will go." They were not amused.
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Now then having read the LEO's response and the Civil Authorities response I think it will bring into focus my attempts at satire. Which are also partially true.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 5:42:49 PM EDT
If I lived with in 300/400 miles from a nuclear power plant, I sure would double-check your supply of potassium iodate pills, depending on the winds, nuclear fallout could be blown your way. How many thousands of square miles did Chernobyl contaminate?
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 5:51:03 PM EDT
What you need is the advice of an expert nuclear physicist. You should go down to a nearby McDonald's and ask one. That's where most of them work these days.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:01:38 PM EDT
Ok. What do the potassium iodate pills do for you? Where can they be bought? And finally how much? If they aren't too expensive, it might be worth buying some. I realize the chances of something happening at one of these plants is small.....but if terrorists could reach them with the proper stuff, they could very well set one of them off. That's why I wanna be prepared. Just as the liklihood of me having to use a firearm for defense is small....I feel much better knowing I have one if needed.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:10:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 8:36:02 PM EDT by Sodie]
I saw a map some where of potential radioactive drift. I'll post the link if I can find it. Basically you don't want to live East of a nuclear disaster because of the Earths rotation. Wind and bad weather could change the general path, but the Rads in the upper atmosphere will flow with the Earth's rotation. [url]http://www.ki4u.com/[/url] There's a whole bunch of info on this site. [img]http://www.ki4u.com/reactorsmap1.gif[/img] The pills are cheap, like $22.00, "even less if you look around", for a big ol bottle. But they are not something that you can find at 7-11. And if some sort of radiological pollution gets into the air, those little pills would be priceless in the short term. They keep a long time too if you don't break the seal. They are not vitamins; they’re “just incase shit”. So don't start taking them ahead of time as a pre-emptive measure. Po Iodate can cause some allergic reactions, rashes etc in some people. But during a Rad leak or release, which would you rather have a radioactive thyroid gland or rashy skin.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:17:58 PM EDT
What do the potassium iodate pills do for you and where and for how much can they be bought? If they aren't too expensive I may get a few for the same reason I own guns......just rather have them than not in the rare chance I would need em.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:19:19 PM EDT
Ask yourself: What could a small group of terrorists do to a nuke plant that would cause a real problem? Set off a bomb inside the reactor? It would have to be a bomb big enough to crack the outer vessel, like OK-City size, and that may not even accomplish anything. Cause a meltdown? That takes too much time. Unless they are trained in operating the plant and have tons of time to cause a meltdown, there isn't a hell of a lot of a threat that I can see. Every nuke plant I know of has pretty beefy security and can you imagine the kind of police (and let's be honest, military) response that an attack on a nuke plant would receive? These are not unarmed airline passengers we're talking about now. Plus, you'd as soon as the call went out you'd have thousands of armed men arriving there and storming the place. So even if they could get in, they couldn't hold it long. This FOX News story sounds to me like our own government wants to keep everyone scared so that they can continue to erode our freedom out from under us. It was a story planted in the media to keep the adrenaline going. Then again, maybe the media made it up for the sake of ratings. Or whoever they are interrogating down there in Gitmo is having a really good time making up bullshit stories for his interrogators.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:21:00 PM EDT
Ooops. Sorry for the double post of the same question....didn't see that this topic had made it to the second page and thought it didn't post the first time! I am kinda dense. LOL.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:44:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 6:44:56 PM EDT by Magic]
Originally Posted By Andrewh: We found higher readings due to chernobyl on our side of the world.
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Please cite your source... [img]http://www.salug.org/~davidm/images/bsflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:46:18 PM EDT
Here is a handy link.... [url]www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html [/url] [8D]
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:53:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Ok. What do the potassium iodate pills do for you? Where can they be bought? And finally how much? If they aren't too expensive, it might be worth buying some. I realize the chances of something happening at one of these plants is small.....but if terrorists could reach them with the proper stuff, they could very well set one of them off. That's why I wanna be prepared. Just as the liklihood of me having to use a firearm for defense is small....I feel much better knowing I have one if needed.
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From the Tactics & Training Forum: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=83032[/url] U.S. Says It Bought Radiation Drug - Wash. Post [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=77480[/url] U.S. Changes Stance on Radiation Exposure Regimen - NY times I bought mine from Major Surplus & Survival, Gardena, Calif. [url]www.majorsurplussurvival.com[/url]
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:56:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Ask yourself: What could a small group of terrorists do to a nuke plant that would cause a real problem? Set off a bomb inside the reactor? It would have to be a bomb big enough to crack the outer vessel, like OK-City size, and that may not even accomplish anything. Cause a meltdown? That takes too much time.
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I don't know. Before 9/11/01, I would've never thought that anyone would hi-jack a 747 and crash it into a skyscraper either.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 7:01:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
Originally Posted By trickshot: Ask yourself: What could a small group of terrorists do to a nuke plant that would cause a real problem? Set off a bomb inside the reactor? It would have to be a bomb big enough to crack the outer vessel, like OK-City size, and that may not even accomplish anything. Cause a meltdown? That takes too much time.
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I don't know. Before 9/11/01, I would've never thought that anyone would hi-jack a 747 and crash it into a skyscraper either.
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Exactly... what's to stop someone from crashing a plane into any one of a hundred reactors that are "sort of" guarded? What kind of damage would that do?
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 7:02:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 7:02:40 PM EDT by Grock]
more: [url]www.nbcps.com/nbcps/3-6/3-6ch3.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 7:05:18 PM EDT
Safe distance???? LOL [:D]
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 7:06:26 PM EDT
Well said warlord. The thing that bothers me is the fact that the terrorists may not have to storm one of these plants and take it over.....they may have been working at them for years! With the kind of Mickey Mouse security we have in this nation, that would no longer be a shock to me at all. Another news report I heard today focused on a government brief about the possibility that as many as 25 terrorists had entered the US along with cargo that came in on a ship. While I pay little attention the media, this could have happened. One thing that's for sure....these people are crazy enough that they will try something else if they get any chance at all. I just hope the next time we can shove their plans of destruction and death back down their throats.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 7:07:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 7:35:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Since the nukes are so close to town there has been a lot of talk about this and, although this may be mainly BS to make us not feel like morons for living next to these things, -to cause the right kind of damage to the plant to release any radiation with a plane strike there is a very small area of the plant that a terrorist would have to hit, a terrorist could knock over the cooling towers but so what? -Getting into the plant with an armed force would be impossible. There is good security, video cameras and men with machineguns. You'd never get in, at least not before every policeman & probably some of the local army had time to show up. -Getting "mole(s)" in would be tough too, the security clearance procedures are fairly strict and most of these workers have lived here for years-it's not like 10 suspicously arabian looking guys can get jobs there with access to anything other than, maybe, the cafeteria. They could not get weapons in and would end up facing the machinegun toting guys referred to above. I'm as paraniod as anybody else, but I don't plan on spending the Fourth hiding out in the woods with my HK.
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This article in Physics Today would disagree with your assessment... [url]http://www.physicstoday.org/pt/vol-54/iss-12/p20.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 7:57:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 8:03:32 PM EDT
I don't know about govt. I maybe paranoid, but at least the govt agencies that I have dealt are either a toothless/paper tiger and/or smoke and mirrors. And maybe I'm over-reacing who knows. BTW: If you folks buy the potassium iodate, this stuff is truly a single purpose item, to prevent cancer in the tyroid gland because of radioactive fallout. Unlike ammo - you can shoot it, and food - you can eat it. But hopefully we will never have to use it.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 8:12:35 PM EDT
Saying it is impossible to cause massive radiation leak from a nuke power plant is like saying <20 Saudi camel jockeys couldn't possibly bring down the WTC! Now that we have settled that misunderstanding....... Downwind a hundred miles is way too close! The plume downwind can be highly radioactive for many huindreds of miles. Depends on a lot of things, but one is sure: The government WILL lie to us!! Chernobyl was interesting. The initial destruction was from a massive STEAM explosion, blowing the reactor apart. Secondly, it was a graphite moderated reactor. When it blew, all the stored heat set fire to the graphite. Some 50 tons of radioactive fuel was ejected into the atmosphere. Untold amounts of radioactive steam and smoke was released both initially and over several days following the disaster. It was at the end of it's fuel cycle making the release of radiation byproducts most severe. The Russian government reacted exactly like ours and tried to hide the magantude of the event - or what they understood of it. Even today it releases large amounts of radiation, heat, dust and steam. The sarcopagus is rusting and near collapse with some 100 tons of highly radioactive dust inside. It is far from over.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 9:27:17 PM EDT
I grew up and still live in a town that's just downstream from a multi-reactor site where weapons grade plutonium was made since 1944. It now has the largest inventory of high level radioctive waste in the world outside of Russia. I can attest that it is completely safe as I have only had cancer once and other members of my family haven't had [b]any[/b] cancer at all!. Besides, it's nothing that a little more radiation and chemo drugs can't burn off. [%|]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 4:09:37 AM EDT
Magic- If you can just check the log books of any nuke plant in the US at the time. Mine happen to be Naval, and we do regular checks for radiation. After the Chernobyl incident, there were higher readings all over the place, even on peoples cars parked outside. Just like the atomic bombs have increased the base line radiation on everything made after WW II. If you want sources on that, you have to find the book on building a room on detecting low level radation contamination on or in people. They have to build the room out of battle ship armor manufactured prior to WW II. And it states specifically for that reason.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 4:51:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Andrewh: Magic- If you can just check the log books of any nuke plant in the US at the time. Mine happen to be Naval, and we do regular checks for radiation. After the Chernobyl incident, there were higher readings all over the place, even on peoples cars parked outside. Just like the atomic bombs have increased the base line radiation on everything made after WW II. If you want sources on that, you have to find the book on building a room on detecting low level radation contamination on or in people. They have to build the room out of battle ship armor manufactured prior to WW II. And it states specifically for that reason.
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I was actually working in a nuclear power plant at the time of Chernobyl in the US Navy. We collectively were very interested in this. [b]NOBODY[/b] noticed any higher background radiation levels in the United States. The surveys that I know of were done for 30 days after Chernobyl. If you think about it for a minute, it makes sense that we didn't notice any higher background levels. This was not a nuclear explosion. There was a steam explosion and a pretty powerful one at that, but it is not even comparable to a nuclear blast. To get radioactive particles into the United States from Russia, you would need to get the particles into the upper atmosphere. There was no mushroom cloud to do that.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:31:44 AM EDT
Magic- Not to make this a pissing contest, but if you will check again, there is/and was never any water in chernobyl to cause a steam explosion. The chernobyl plants use liquide sodium as a coolant, and a graphite block as the moderator. The fire was and explosion occured due to overheating, and igniton of the graphite moderator, and spewed crap into the atomosphere. If that isn't enough to travel here, then tell me why the fires a few years back where ever it was, (but not anywhere near texas,) made the air dirty down here?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:54:10 AM EDT
Re Potassium Iodate pills... Since I didn't see a response (only the links) and someone might be only interested in the short version, I'll go ahead and answer. The thyroid gland soaks up iodine like a sponge. Since radioactive iodine would likely be present in fallout (don't recall the isotope or exactly why), your thyroid would take up the radioactive stuff, which would then destroy it by radiation. Since you can't live without a thyroid, well, you get the picture. The solution is to saturate it with the non-radioactive variety beforehand so it won't take up anymore. Feel free to correct me if I got any of that wrong. regards, legrue
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:58:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Andrewh: Magic- Not to make this a pissing contest, but if you will check again, there is/and was never any water in chernobyl to cause a steam explosion. The chernobyl plants use liquide sodium as a coolant, and a graphite block as the moderator.
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You are right about that.[:)]I don't want a pissing contest either.
The fire was and explosion occured due to overheating, and igniton of the graphite moderator, and spewed crap into the atomosphere. If that isn't enough to travel here, then tell me why the fires a few years back where ever it was, (but not anywhere near texas,) made the air dirty down here?
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I think it was Mexico or Guatemala, if I am thinking of the same thing you are. I know for a fact that the background radiation levels in Norfolk, VA and Alameda, CA were not above normal up to 30 days after Chernobyl. Does that mean that there weren't some other areas that had higher background levels? No, it don't. I haven't ever seen anything about higher background radiation levels in the US after Chernobyl until you stated it. If you have some information about it, then I would be interested. I raised the BS flag because it seems very unlikely that you have any such information. If you do, then I will humbly apologize.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:31:31 AM EDT
I hope they don't hit the Davis-Besse plant. That's just a few miles west of Camp Perry! [shock]
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