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Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:33:48 AM EDT
[#1]
I have found a web site that sells potassium iodide/iodate. They are based in:
KI4U
602 N. College St.
Gonzales, Texas, 78629
(830) 540-4188
[url]http://www.ki4u.com/[/url]

They have an interesting FAQs page and an emergnecy plan b, when potassium iodide/iodate is not available.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 10:05:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Magic- I guess I didn't type enough. I re-read my post, and I said higher levels, I guess I need to clarify. Higher levels. We(ELT's)do regular swipe surveys of the area to make sure that contamination has not spread anywhere on the base. I was in Idaho by the way.
These are really low level readings that either are not readable in the area due to background radiation being higher(near the plant,) or you would need a PRN-5 to read.
The swipe surveys showed higher levels even out to the parking lot on cars. They were dismissed as due to chernobyl, not a leak at the plants.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:30:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Andrewh, also not wanting a pissing contest but I think you are mistaken about coolant.  

As far as the fallout from the massive amount of fissionable and fission byproduct material, it did occur.  Worst in Scandanavia but some did make it here.  Quite a lot fell in Europe too. Further downwind you get, the wider and less intense the fallout becomes.  First few hundred miles are by far the worst.  What made Chernobyl rather nasty was the things released.  Near the end of the fuel cycle, which it was, there are far more "byproducts" in the core.  These include radioactive iodine which is what the potassium iodine pills protect you from.  "Floods" the thyroid so it will not take up the radioactive isotope and cause thyroid cancer as did the Nevada tests to so many "downwinders".  Strontium 90 is another problem.  Chemically similar to calcium so the bones take it up readily.  Causes big problems for adults but even worse for children because their growing bones use a lot of calcium.  Many of the radioactive isotopes released are similar to things the body uses so they carry radioactivity into the body.  Add to that fine particles of dust that settle in the lungs, minerals absorbed by growing plants later eaten as food by humans,  eaten by food animals or dairy cows and you have many ways for fallout to find its way to you.  While the effects of moderate to high levels of ionizing radiation are pretty well know (in part from HUMAN experiments performed by OUR government!!) the effects of low level exposure are less well understood.  The US govenment has a long history of hiding the truth and there is no reason to believe they are telling it now, either!

Beta particles from fallout cause surface burns to exposed skin but pose little risk otherwise.  It is the gamma rays (ionizing radiation) that causes the mischief to ALL parts of the body.  Some area such as the lungs intestines and eyes suffer at lower doses.  As the dose increases more organs are affected until enough are damaged to terminate the individual.  At extremely high doses, death is rapid such as the firemen who gave their lives putting out the fires on the roof of the turbine building.  Those who looked into the burning core died in hours.  The "shovel brigade" that scooped up the ejected graphite and threw it back into the reactor also died but it took them days rather than hours.  The helicopter pilots who dropped boron and sand into the reactor to put out the graphite fires lived a little longer.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:52:28 PM EDT
[#4]
The Russians made a whole host of dumb errors, just like we did at TMI.  (Similar plants like TMI, such as Perry, continue to operate.)  

Chernobyl had some really bad design features including a control rods that INCREASED power output upon initial insertion and a positive temperature coeffient!!!!  The disaster, however, was the direct result of human error.  A test was ordered to be run (one the Russians were very fond of for some reason) to determine how long the slowing reactor output could sustain the auxillaries such as coolant pumps during a reactor shutdown.  To make the test more realistic the emergency core cooling system was disabled!!  Outside electrical power was cut off.  Next, the reduction of power prior to shutdown was interrupted by the grid operators requesting a temporary INCREASE in output.  This added confussion and huge amounts of reserve heat to the reactor.  The test was behind so at shutdown they became rushed and careless.  Combination of locked out safety systems, poor design, tired & poorly trained operators, end of fuel cycle operating conditions and all that extra stored heat allowed a power run-away.  Without emergency cooling system the coolant temperature and pressure ran away and exceeded the burst preasure of the vessel, piping etc.  After the explosion most coolant was lost but the nuclear reation was still making a lot of heat - enough to ignite the graphite moderator.  Much of the core (>50 tons) was ejected in the initial explosion.  Even more was vaporized and released in the smoke plume.  A substantial amount melted an flowed out through the bottom of the shattered vessel creating a formation known as the "elephants foot" in the basement.  This area remains so highly radioactive that it has been sealed off somewhat and cannot be approached.  It continues to give off large amounts of heat.  It is likely to do so for many years.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:07:12 PM EDT
[#5]
The "accident" at TMI was also a combination of design flaws and operator error.  A reactor SCRAM caused an overpressure valve to open(normally) in the primary cooling loop.  Trouble is, it failed to close properly losing a significant amount of coolant (water).  By the time this was discovered, the core was severely overheated and a bubble of steam had formed at the top of the reactor vessel, further adding to the overheating.  As the core melted waterflow was disrupted and further core damage occurred.  The fear was that the process would continue until that or the accumulating hgydrogen would cause a breach of the reactor vessel itself.   Should that happen, the resulting massive amount of steam would rupture the containment if not released.  Venting it to save the containment is not THAT much different than the containment failing.  Either way a huge amount of radiation would be released though MAYBE not as bad as Chernobyl.

The pressure relief valve was a know problem that had plauged this design for years.  Some improvemnts have been made to it.  The Babcock and Wilcox pressurized water reactor design used a much reduced water content compared to other PWR's used.  This was done to save money, of course.  It also had the unintended consequence of making the thing harder to control.  Small changes in reactor power level were exagerated by less "flywheel effect" in the cooling systems.  That has never been fixed as it is part of the basic design.

Anything that distrupts the emergency core coolin AND causes a turbine trip is likely to not be pretty!  I would rather not write much about that for obvious reasons.

100 miles is WAY too close.  Ever.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:33:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Magic- I guess I didn't type enough. I re-read my post, and I said higher levels, I guess I need to clarify. Higher levels. We(ELT's)do regular swipe surveys of the area to make sure that contamination has not spread anywhere on the base. I was in Idaho by the way.
These are really low level readings that either are not readable in the area due to background radiation being higher(near the plant,) or you would need a PRN-5 to read.
The swipe surveys showed higher levels even out to the parking lot on cars. They were dismissed as due to chernobyl, not a leak at the plants.
View Quote

I did not realize that you had information to the contrary.  [B)] You never know who you are talking to on the internet.[}:D]
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 10:04:46 AM EDT
[#7]
I too can admit when I am wrong. Further research shows it was a water cooled reactor. I don't know why I thought it was sodium cooled.
I recall seeing a tape on it and I thought it mentioned that as part of the design. It also showed those poor bastards saying how they volunteered to help control the fire and bury the rest of the plant for Mother Russia, and how we joked that you just couldn't see the AK-47 pointed at the guy off camera.

So Magic you were right it was a steam explosion. And for light reading, according to the NRC even, it made it to north america.
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/staff/sr1437/v1/part05.html
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 10:37:39 AM EDT
[#8]
i dont have a degree in physics and i cant cite any sources except my old brain. but i seem to recall shortly after chernobyl went, increases in radiation were detected in scandinavia and canada. supposedly the finnish govt killed off reindeerand the canadian govt dumped massive quantities of milk because it could be contaminated.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 10:59:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I too can admit when I am wrong. Further research shows it was a water cooled reactor. I don't know why I thought it was sodium cooled.
I recall seeing a tape on it and I thought it mentioned that as part of the design. It also showed those poor bastards saying how they volunteered to help control the fire and bury the rest of the plant for Mother Russia, and how we joked that you just couldn't see the AK-47 pointed at the guy off camera.

So Magic you were right it was a steam explosion. And for light reading, according to the NRC even, it made it to north america.
[url]http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/staff/sr1437/v1/part05.html[/url]
View Quote


Wow, didn't know that! Thanks for the info.
The release of radioactive material from the accident was initially reported by the Soviets to be about 100 million Ci of fission products, but (except for the noble gases) that estimate included only material deposited within the European part of the Soviet Union. As a result of the accident, radionuclides were deposited throughout the Northern Hemisphere.
View Quote

I wonder how long after the accident it took for the radionuclides to get to the US?
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