Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 5/10/2002 9:52:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2002 9:53:56 PM EDT by jz02]
I've recently turned 18 and since I'll be heading off to college this coming September, I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking. I read a lot of different books, but it all comes back to one thing. What sort of person should I be? I've been reading "Steel My Soldier's Hearts", in which there is a character Colonel Hunt, who is portrayed as a sort of villain. He orders suicide charges to company commanders while bypassing the chain of command since he's the division staff officer. He does tons of stupid, egotistical, and morally unacceptable things that gets tons of American soldiers killed basically, all for his own gain. Then I was reading "The Money Culture" by Michael Lewis which describes the money madness of the 80s. The recent Ivy grads becoming millionaires by ripping off the Savings and Loans, the government, the taxpayers, basically anyone who'd listen to them. The moneymen who spun a whole system of BS to convince the country that their fleecing of the country was good for it. What all this came down to is my extreme disillusionment. I feel like the world is such an immoral place. I've began to question everything I've thought about moral behavior. I mean I feel guilty when I accidentally litter, I have to go back and pick it up and throw it into the garbage. But after this, I feel like I'm out of place. Since I'll be going into the real world in a few years. I'm deeply disturbed and shaken by all this. Is it ok to screw others over to get ahead as long as I can get away with it? What about lying? Doublespeak? What about pride/hubris? Basically, is it ok to be a heartless, egotistical, greedy, elitist snob? I guess I just feel so angry that I feel compelled to outscrew these people. How do I find my place in the grey area between morality and legality?
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 9:57:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 9:57:55 PM EDT
Don't base your decision on what others do...just be a good person and you won't have regrets.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 10:06:27 PM EDT
i've never known a situation in which the golden rule didn't apply. if you wouldn't want it said/done to you, that's a pretty sure bet you shouldn't say/do it to someone else. and about that litter thing: you should feel guilty. we all have to share this world and i don't want to be looking at the shit you threw out the window all day long. i think this is a beautiful place when we take care of it. i don't trash your home. please don't trash mine or others'. no flame. just a request.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 10:55:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:03:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jz02: I've recently turned 18 and since I'll be heading off to college this coming September, I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking. I read a lot of different books, but it all comes back to one thing. What sort of person should I be? I've been reading "Steel My Soldier's Hearts", in which there is a character Colonel Hunt, who is portrayed as a sort of villain. He orders suicide charges to company commanders while bypassing the chain of command since he's the division staff officer. He does tons of stupid, egotistical, and morally unacceptable things that gets tons of American soldiers killed basically, all for his own gain. Then I was reading "The Money Culture" by Michael Lewis which describes the money madness of the 80s. The recent Ivy grads becoming millionaires by ripping off the Savings and Loans, the government, the taxpayers, basically anyone who'd listen to them. The moneymen who spun a whole system of BS to convince the country that their fleecing of the country was good for it. What all this came down to is my extreme disillusionment. I feel like the world is such an immoral place. I've began to question everything I've thought about moral behavior. I mean I feel guilty when I accidentally litter, I have to go back and pick it up and throw it into the garbage. But after this, I feel like I'm out of place. Since I'll be going into the real world in a few years. I'm deeply disturbed and shaken by all this. Is it ok to screw others over to get ahead as long as I can get away with it? What about lying? Doublespeak? What about pride/hubris? Basically, is it ok to be a heartless, egotistical, greedy, elitist snob? I guess I just feel so angry that I feel compelled to outscrew these people. How do I find my place in the grey area between morality and legality?
View Quote
Looks to me that you are a very moral person. You will not do any of these things. I haven't, and I'm doing ok. My .02
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:08:24 PM EDT
I'm going to go out a limb here, and assume that you grew up knowing the difference between right and wrong. Now that you're going to be out on your own, it'll be be up to you to find the wisom and the strength to make the right choices. Trust in yourself, and follow your heart and you should be fine.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:09:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:12:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jz02: I've recently turned 18 and since I'll be heading off to college this coming September, I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking. I read a lot of different books, but it all comes back to one thing. What sort of person should I be? I've been reading "Steel My Soldier's Hearts", in which there is a character Colonel Hunt, who is portrayed as a sort of villain. He orders suicide charges to company commanders while bypassing the chain of command since he's the division staff officer. He does tons of stupid, egotistical, and morally unacceptable things that gets tons of American soldiers killed basically, all for his own gain. Then I was reading "The Money Culture" by Michael Lewis which describes the money madness of the 80s. The recent Ivy grads becoming millionaires by ripping off the Savings and Loans, the government, the taxpayers, basically anyone who'd listen to them. The moneymen who spun a whole system of BS to convince the country that their fleecing of the country was good for it. What all this came down to is my extreme disillusionment. I feel like the world is such an immoral place. I've began to question everything I've thought about moral behavior. I mean I feel guilty when I accidentally litter, I have to go back and pick it up and throw it into the garbage. But after this, I feel like I'm out of place. Since I'll be going into the real world in a few years. I'm deeply disturbed and shaken by all this. Is it ok to screw others over to get ahead as long as I can get away with it? What about lying? Doublespeak? What about pride/hubris? Basically, is it ok to be a heartless, egotistical, greedy, elitist snob? I guess I just feel so angry that I feel compelled to outscrew these people. How do I find my place in the grey area between morality and legality?
View Quote
I think you are exactly on the right track. You don't need to screw everyone over to get ahead, but you also need to realize (as it seems that you are begining to) that there are some real slime buckets out there. Beware of them as they don't all "look" like slime balls. You also need to rediscover that there are some truely amazing individuals out there, many of whom are right here. I think you'll be a fine upstanding man that your future kids will be proud of.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:13:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:15:32 PM EDT
It means that it's late, and I'm tired! [;)]
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:20:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:24:30 PM EDT
Sure did, and it's neat as hell!
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:33:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 12:55:24 AM EDT
jz02, you seem to be tempted by the dark side of The Force. Easy money, power, women etc. You *might* get some of that action. Could happen. But. Ever see "Wall Street"? Gordon Gekko? Ever hear "The ends justify the means"? After 38 years I can tell you without hesitation that there are no ends, only means. If you want to be happy in life you'll forget those "shortcuts" and just do the right thing. Maybe you'll die old and rich, maybe not. You won't have a ton of regrets though. Corny but true. Listen to Obi Wan... ;')
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 1:30:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2002 1:31:33 AM EDT by ARChoo]
Lately I have been answering every dillema that comes across my path by answering one simple question to myself: [b]Is this the smart thing to do?[/b] You'd be amazed at how much your life can improve by asking yourself that simple little question and then answering it.
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 4:38:49 AM EDT
Screw unto others before they screw unto you[;)]
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 7:39:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2002 7:41:38 AM EDT by jz02]
Thanks for all your responses. What troubles me is that having gone through high school in one of the biggest economic booms of the past half century, I saw first hand the mass hysteria and obsession with money that such an environment can produce. I remember that everytime my parents had guests over all they talked about were stocks, stocks, stocks. People worshipped money, the stock market, the now disgraced analysts who peddled crap on TV, the celebrity CEOs who stole massive chunks of shareholder equity and then used their CFOs as scapegoats. It's just all so disgusting. Yet most of this is legal, and they will get away with it. Then I read a bunch of books on 80s financial history and found that it was all the same. I just got such a sense of helplessness because it seems that Wall Street never change and they are just there to fleece every new generation of investors. As soon as the old memories faded, they will just market some new get rich quick scheme and people will buy it and lose their shirts and it just happens over and over again. What galls me the most however is the helpless feeling that things are never going to change. Our memories are short, and our appetite for money large. Our present outrage will be soon distracted, and in ten years this will all happen again. Individuals maybe disgraced, but the money culture will always be celebrated. What do I do when ten years from now, when this all happens again. When people around me all go crazy with money fever and I don't know what to say or do to stop them or help them? I can't stop the predators, but I can't help their victims either. I know I will never be one of their victims, but it's just too galling to stand here and watch. Which is why I've been wondering, if I join them, would that stop my moral outrage? I guess what I'm asking is, would it help if I desensitize myself to the immoralities of this world by partaking in it?
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 7:51:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 8:06:18 AM EDT
If you have morals, you have a dilemma. That is to say that you appear to have morals but are going through the adolescent phase of questioning them. Any thinking person does this, which is to say that not very many actually do. So, to answer some of these questions:
Is it ok to screw others over to get ahead as long as I can get away with it? What about lying? Doublespeak? What about pride/hubris? Basically, is it ok to be a heartless, egotistical, greedy, elitist snob? I guess I just feel so angry that I feel compelled to outscrew these people. How do I find my place in the grey area between morality and legality?
View Quote
The answer to the first, second and third is obviously "yes." Now, about pride/hubris, heartless, egotistical, etc., you are free to have it but it is in your self interest not to show it. As to finding the place between legality & morality, you will find it with some work. The nmost troubling aspect of that question is the fact that it was asked at all. It indicates that the thought has occurred to you and indicates that you could very well be headed down that slippery slope right now. Lots of contradictions, huh? Well, the simple fact is that if you have ANY morals you might as well give them up if you want to be successful. All, 100%, of the successful people that I have seen would screw over their mothers for a few dollars. The less moral people in that bunch would do it simply for the ego boost & the attendant rush. So, what is the net? Here is my best advice: Don't think. Just do. If you think about these kind of things, it will only frustrate you because you will see many people do exactly the types of things that you question and get ahead without any negative result to them. The Enron & Anderson headlines are only a small fraction of the grossly unethical & illegal things that happen every day in business. All of those guys have an agenda that is strictly self interest and you will be only one more body for them to step over.
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 8:07:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 8:09:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 8:22:46 AM EDT
Top Top