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Posted: 5/9/2002 9:30:28 PM EDT
Gadzooks! After what? 37 days? [size=4]Palestinians Leaving Nativity Church[/size=4] Fri May 10,12:04 AM ET BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AP) - Palestinians began leaving the Church of the Nativity at daybreak Friday, marking the end of a standoff with Israeli troops that lasted more than five weeks. The first to emerge was among 13 suspected militants. The 13 are to be deported first to Cyprus and then to European countries, officials said, to be followed by 26 who are to be taken to Gaza and about 85 civilians, who are to be freed. The first person to leave the church, whose identity was not immediately known, was stopped several times at an Israeli metal detector and had to take off his jacket before being cleared. Wearing a black and white checked Arab scarf around his neck and accompanied by two priests, he approached two Israeli soldiers, who talked to him briefly before directing him to a red and white Israeli bus. The crisis began April 2, when more than 200 people fled into the church that marks the traditional birthplace of Jesus, ahead of Israeli troops invading the biblical town. At first Israel insisted that the gunmen among them must surrender, but dropped that demand when the Palestinians agreed that 13 of the senior militants would be deported and others sent to Gaza. Arduous negotiations and several near-deals characterized the effort to defuse the standoff at one of Christianity's holiest shrines. The Vatican (news - web sites) pressed for a quick solution, criticizing Israel for surrounding the church and the Palestinians for taking weapons inside. See remainder of article at:[url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20020510/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bethlehem_church_standoff_72[/url] Eric The(Yippie.)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 9:32:19 PM EDT
[b][red][size=6]SNIPER BAIT!!!!!!![/b][/red][/size=6] Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 9:41:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: the church that marks the traditional birthplace of Jesus Eric The(Yippie.)Hun[>]:)]
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I thought [i]he[/i] was born away in a manger? [>:/]
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:02:58 PM EDT
"MILITANTS TO BE SCATTERED A diplomat who requested anonymity said several European nations had agreed to take some of the militants but details would not be made public until they were out of Israel. “It affects several European nations,” the diplomat said, declining to identify them. Cypriot Foreign Minister Yiannakis Cassoulides confirmed Thursday night that his country would temporarily take in the men. From there they would be flown to their final destinations." From...[url]http://www.msnbc.com/news/677951.asp?pne=msn[/url] Maybe France will show the world just how much they really care for these oppressed gunmen.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:09:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:41:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wolfpack: I think the church is built where the manger was supposed to have been...
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Too bad The Historical Preservation Society didn't get their meddling grubs in there, they'd still have a manger.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 10:56:31 PM EDT
Those militants and many others need to be exterminated. Why the hell are they giving them a free pass? They're just gonna start a new cell wherever they end up.
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 11:32:03 PM EDT
I am waiting to see what they did to the inside of the place...or will the Church step in and not allow the press inside??
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 4:03:06 AM EDT
Post from Wolfpack -
Don't hold me to it but, I think the church is built where the manger was supposed to have been...ETH, am I right?
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You are correct, Sir. In about the year 324 AD, the mother of then emperor Constantine had specifically traveled to the Holy Land to see for herself the reputed birthplace of Jesus. Tradition, in the form of the stories of St. Justin Martyr, indicated that a pagan temple had been built over the supposed grotto in which Jesus had been born roughly three centuries earlier. The remains of a pagan temple were found near the supposed site, and so the location became the accepted site. In 333 AD, the first basilica was built on the site of the grotto by the Emperor Constantine. Personally, I believe that if Jesus had desired for His church to know the precise location of the particular 'manger' in which He was born, directions and descriptions would have been given. And since Joseph and Mary had long since perished before there was any thought given to making His birthplace a Holy Site, one must wonder whose testimony it may have been to Justin Martyr to convince him that this grotto was different from any other in the area. After the passage of even thirty years, I doubt that Joseph or Mary could have identified the place again. The importance is that He was born, not where He was born. Eric The(ButItDoesMakeOneThinkOfHim)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 4:29:03 AM EDT
What I don't get about all this is - WHAT do they think these Palestinians (if they are the hard-core militants everyone makes them out to be) are gonna do when disbursed to countries all over the world - get a 40 hr a week job, and become productive members of society?? I beleive the thinking that environemtn is what makes people commit evil factors WAY too much in modern policy making. I see two possibilities: 1. Either these guys are hard-core militants, which means until they are dead, they will ALWAYS be a threat to civilized people, or 2. They are people justly aggrieved at the loss of their homes, land, freedom and way of life, in which case they will always be a threat to the Isrealis occupying the West Bank. Either way, they will always be a threat. ANyone heard what happens to these guys after they get deported??? Compared to the taliban at Gitmo.... ....I kinda wish we had a "take no prisoners" secret policy with regard to the talibans. They will ALWAYS be a threat. Either they need to get dead, or we'll need to incarcerate them until they are. (Disclaimer: I'm not sure these Pali's are hardcore like the Talibans, but if they are....... [:(!] )
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 6:04:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Personally, I believe that if Jesus had desired for His church to know the precise location of the particular 'manger' in which He was born, directions and descriptions would have been given. Eric The(ButItDoesMakeOneThinkOfHim)Hun[>]:)]
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Kind of arrogant, don't ya think?
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 7:18:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 7:29:16 AM EDT
Post from 1GUNRUNNER -
Kind of arrogant, don't ya think?
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Arrogant of whom? Jesus or His church? If Jesus, then don't worry, 'cause as I said, He didn't seem to think His birthplace worthy of being located or described in Scripture. If His church, well, if there is any truth behind the tradition that St. Justin Martyr in the Second Century, AD, conveyed to us, then His church had made precious little fuss over His birthplace, either. It was pagans (of an unknown source) who built a temple over the supposed site, as a means of keeping any Christians away from the place. But just how accurate any of this might be is open to conjecture. As I mentioned, I would imagine that neither Joseph nor Mary could have found the spot after a few years, but there were other witnesses, such as the shepherds of the nearby temple flocks, who would certainly have remembered the episode in which they were so incredibly caught up in or around 4 BC, and may have passed the memories on to their sons who took their place as shepherds of the temple flocks. Eric The(BetterSafeThanSorry)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 7:58:45 AM EDT
Eric and 1gun - Here's an intersting Scripture that kinda addresses yer lil spat - [i]Deut. 34: 5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 And he (the Lord) buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.[/i] The way this was presented to me was that God hid Moses' burial place such that NO ONE would turn it into a shrine. God wants people worshipping Him, NOT landscapes and locales. I imagine God has also let things (pagans building a temple on teh site) happen re: the Church of the Nat such that it would be difficult to build a shrine there. And yet, people STILL worship land. Go figger.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 8:06:36 AM EDT
Things that back you go hmmmmmm...several days ago it was reporte4d that one of the churchsitters had a tatoo of the star of david...and now they are all released? hmmmm
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 8:11:29 AM EDT
Here's some of the terrorists as they arrive in Gaza! So tell me, where did this POS get the M-16? From his 'keepers'? [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020510/capt.1021033859.mideast_israel_palestinians_xgb102.jpg[/img] Caption: One of 26 Palestinian militiamen arriving at a hotel in Gaza after being released from the Church of the Nativity fires an assault rifle in celebration Friday, May 10, 2002. The 26 were to be checked by doctors in Gaza after spending more than a month holed up inside the Church of the Nativity in Bethelehem. (AP Photo/Greg Baker) Some 'keepers', eh? They let you have an M-16 and fire it out the open window of the bus carrying you to your 'jail.' I smell a rat. Eric The(ARatWearingABurnoose)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 8:16:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2002 8:22:45 AM EDT by 9divdoc]
Fox had their cameras inside..the rags crapped and uriniated in one of Christian's most sacred shrines (if you belive in sacred places) the world takes little notice..in fact now the Terrorists are being sent on all expenses paid trips to Europe and Canada. What if radical Christians had taken over a mosque or a better analogy a Mosque in Mecca ..the shrine of allah or mohamed and took a dump in it..oh how they would scream and cry and tear their hair out...and the Euro trash and commie media hear would scream and shout and demand.. They might even send in Clinton/Clinton/Reno/MaGaw to burn them out ala WACO G-man is correct (gasp!...choke!)...the reason we have been given places to remember is because God made something happen at that particular spot.We are not suppose to worship the spot or objects but these are to remind us of what He did ...
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 8:26:26 AM EDT
For the sake of discussion, let's say that there was fighting near Mecca or Medina & a hundred Israeli soldiers took refuge in an Islamic temple. Would the whole world, especially Muslims, have just let them sit there for 37 days & then give them guns & free passage? Where is the outrage?
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 8:50:55 AM EDT
You can hear the outrage in the loading of Israeli M16 magazines, in the roar of Merkava engines, in the phone calls bringing in the reservists, and in the quiet discussions of the military planners. Then, the outrage will become deafening as many terrorists die. Soon, I believe.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 9:43:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Fox had their cameras inside..the rags crapped and uriniated in one of Christian's most sacred shrines (if you belive in sacred places) the world takes little notice..
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"The rags..." ???? That ain't the love of Christ I'm hearing, 9!!!!! Fer my money, "the rags" can chew on any "sacred" articles, THEN urinate on them, burn them, and have an orgy with goats on them. God makes it clear he DOES NOT want us making "graven images" as part of our worship to Him. These "sacred" articles are in fact NOTHING but "wood, hay, stubble."
G-man is correct (gasp!...choke!)...the reason we have been given places to remember is because God made something happen at that particular spot.We are not suppose to worship the spot or objects but these are to remind us of what He did ...
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Hey - it had to happen sooner or later. [BD] With the exception of Israel, I think you and I prolly agree on LOTS of things. And if you ever REALLY want to know why I beleive what I believe 'bout israel, I gots a USS Liberty ship load of Scriptures I'd love to show you!!! [}:D] (Alternatively, you can feel free to continue in your potentially mistaken notions of my feelings toward the Jewish peoples, as I'm sure many do here. Apparently, they prefer to beleive I'm a Jew hater, than to engage me in Scriptural debates which would clarify my position. But hey - it's a free country. Do what y'all want!!!!!) [:D]
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 11:44:40 AM EDT
DScott, I hope that you are right, but my point is that it's not a shrine to people of the Jewish faith. Rather, the Palestinians & other Muslims see their "noble" cause as one of Islam against both Christianity & Judaism, i.e., it is a religious war. I wonder what would happen if Jewish or Christian soldiers took over their holy places, notwithstanding the above comments regarding geography.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 12:48:15 PM EDT
Can anyone answer why the Europeans are taking these scumsuckers in, while no Arab or muslim country will?
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: Oh well, if they go to Canada, they will have a free opportunity to come to the U.S. and plan terrorist attacks here. Canada is the only place that allows immigrants and terrorists a safe place to live for free as well as get paid to do it. What a great system.
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They could commit robberies, take trips to Afghanistan (or some new party place now... I hear Indonesia's a hoot!) for terrorist training, all the while on welfare (and perhaps to be followed by a quick trip into the US to blow up the space needle), just like one of their colleagues. Isn't Canada a great place for the oppressed and underprivileged!
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 5:19:36 PM EDT
Yep. Those Fundamentalist Muslims took every bit of care of Issa's House, which is how they refer to Jesus's birthplace, as you would be led to believe by some Muslim apologists. [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020510/capt.1021058725.mideast_israel_palestinians_xcd121.jpg[/img] Caption: Dirty dishes, hair brushes, cleansers, and other personal items are left on top of an ancient pedestal in the Basilica of the Church of the Nativity after the end of the five-week siege in Bethlehem, Friday, May 10, 2002. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak) Yep. It looks like they took real good care of this holy site! It reminds me of the graffiti that appears on the walls of Bethlehem ~ 'First we take care of the Saturday People, Then we take care of the Sunday People.' Reckon who they're talking about? Eric The(SundayPerson)Hun[>]:)]
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