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Posted: 5/6/2002 4:16:02 PM EDT
...In that it could fit about half the members of AR15.com, not to mention assweb...
Expert Profiles Mailbox Bomber By CAROL ANN RIHA .c The Associated Press DES MOINES, Iowa (May 4) - The note found accompanying pipe bombs in rural mailboxes in three Midwestern states reflects a writer who is angry with the government and appears to be either working alone or in a very small group, a former FBI profiler said Saturday. Eight bombs were found Friday in eastern Iowa and western Illinois, including six that exploded and injured six people. On Saturday, five more bombs appeared in central Nebraska mailboxes; none exploded. ''Attention people ...'' the note says. ''If the government controls what you want to do, they control what you can do.'' It was signed, ''Someone Who Cares.'' ''This is someone whose thinking ... whose anger, sense of frustration is so strong, that he doesn't care who else is injured because he feels his message is so important,'' said Clint Van Zandt, who started his own behavioral analysis company after a 25-year career with the FBI that include leading the team credited with identifying the Unabomber. Van Zandt believes the bomber may have written to his local newspaper or the government with his grievances and felt ignored. ''This guy didn't just fall off of a turnip truck. This is a guy who is angry with government,'' Van Zandt said. Nothing in the note indicates the writer was a woman, a foreigner or anyone whose primary language is not English, he said. The use of the phrase ''attention getter'' seems to indicate the writer is older, and other aspects indicate the writer may have mental health problems. Looking at the timing of the bombings, he said, ''we're drawn to April 15th. This is someone who may well have some tax protest issues.'' On Saturday, FBI special agent Jim Bogner invited the bomber to contact the FBI with his grievances. ''We want to assure him he has our attention and we want to understand what the situation is,'' Bogner said. ''It's a much better option to exercise than planting bombs and injuring people who have nothing to do with these grievances.'' FBI officials have not said whether they think the bombings in Iowa, Illinois and Nebraska were the work of a single individual or a group.
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Link Posted: 5/6/2002 4:17:09 PM EDT
The first bombs appeared in a jagged circle around the Mississippi River, between Dubuque and Davenport. One person driving the route in one night ''would be a very doable thing,'' said Jon Petersen, an agent with Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. Van Zandt said the geography of the bombs found Saturday in Nebraska indicated it would have been easier to plant them with help. ''I would suggest it's either one person or a small, small group of participants, people who have known each other for a long time or shared distrust of the government, tax issues, health issues, land use, grazing rights - all of these would be consistent.'' That the bombs were planted overnight indicates they likely were not targeted at rural residents but rather at the mail carriers, Van Zandt said. ''It's his believe we wouldn't go to the mailbox until the mailman got there,'' he said. ''You know if he comes at noon every day, so there's no use in going out at 8 a.m. His target is either the post office itself or mail carriers as representatives of the government.'' Van Zandt believes the bomber may have used phrases similar to those in the note in his conversations with others. ''This person who did the bombings, or he and his group of friends are going to be known by those around them ... as people who have railed against the government,'' he said. ''I think the FBI will be asking people to come forward and share what they know.'' Van Zandt said the series of bombings probably would not continue for long. ''I don't see this as keep happening day after day after day,'' he said. ''They will make a small number of devices and then do that and hope that the fear, like in the case of the anthrax letter, which is probably their model, will continue.''
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Link Posted: 5/6/2002 4:24:06 PM EDT
Oh man this profiling stuff is such a bunch of crap. Was that an episode of South Park where the had a profiler that came up with some outrageous stuff... I can't really remember now.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 4:33:57 PM EDT
SNormanm - I couldn't agree more. This profiling stuff has been so hyped by TV .. but it remains a pseudo-science. This bomber guy could just as easily be: a multiple personality that works for the post office someone that works for a large government organization or contractor at has always gotten "passed over" someone that got into trouble or feels troubled by the IRS could be anyone... and what's this "he will have used these phrases in conversation with others" junk ... *sigh* Ryan
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 4:42:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2002 4:45:19 PM EDT by MatthewDaugherty]
It would not take a genius to produce this profile with the given information. Any hardworking American in tune with the politics today would be upset with taxes, especially Federal Income Tax. Bombs in mailbox- Who else besides the government or postal service would this person be angry with? Definitely would not be angry with PETA. Working either alone or small group- Wow! This profiler must have dwelled over this for hours. I doubt it was a large organization like this in that they had a Ford style assembly plant for making bombs and a group of delivery people. Maybe check with chemists that work at Domino's Pizza. "This guy didn't just fall off the turnip truck". -It's not like it was some Amish Turnip Farmer who got his first television and watched CNN one day and decided to go bonkers. Hate to be able do something like this brews over a long time in an unstable person and finally someone puts pickles on his Big Mac and goes crazy.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 4:46:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By reidry: SNormanm - I couldn't agree more. This profiling stuff has been so hyped by TV .. but it remains a pseudo-science. This bomber guy could just as easily be: a multiple personality that works for the post office someone that works for a large government organization or contractor at has always gotten "passed over" someone that got into trouble or feels troubled by the IRS could be anyone... and what's this "he will have used these phrases in conversation with others" junk ... *sigh* Ryan
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No, it couldn't be just "anyone". How many people do you know that would do these sorts of things? Not just talk about it, or think about it, but actually *do* it? Besides, you're "profiling" in your statements above. When you say, "it could be..." that's what you're doing. It's not a hard science, true, but you're not going to get the deatils they have, nor are you going to get the full profile. I'd bet they're pretty close. I would *love* to see the full profile report, as I thinkyou would be as well. We'll see how close they are.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 5:03:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 5:41:48 PM EDT
Someone who "is angry with the government." That narrows it down to a few hundred million.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:03:20 PM EDT
Profiling issue aside; Makes me wonder what this person is trying to accomplish. Terrorize the government? I'm sure he has a lot of rural mail carriers frightened. I kind of doubt he has many people in Washington trembling with fear. Disrupt government services? Probably slowed rural delivery for about a day. What this person is actually doing is pissing off a whole lot of farmers. If he(she/they?) is trying to garner a groundswell of public support for their "cause", they are failing miserably. Any rural land owner that is afraid to open his mailbox is not going to have much sympathy for this person or any desire to understand motivation.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:18:16 PM EDT
I knew a guy in Michigan that did a few mailboxes. He was my employer's son. Something involving a 32 ounce Mountain Dew bottle. This was big for newspaper sales, and making the local cops look like they were really on the fast track to Quantico. He got 45 days.Time off for good behavior. The Coppers are going to use every situation to make them look like our lives are in their hands. What would we do without them?
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:18:45 PM EDT
They give this guy credit for IDing the Unabomber? Little hint, Over 9 years the FEDS tried to find him. It was his brother that "ID'd" him, Not this yahoo.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:51:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2002 6:54:38 PM EDT by LARRYG]
Nothing in the note indicates the writer was a woman, a foreigner or anyone whose primary language is not English, he said. The use of the phrase ''attention getter'' seems to indicate the writer is older, and other aspects indicate the writer may have mental health problems.
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I would disagree on the foreigner part, but I do agree with the mental health part.
I'm here to help you realize/ understand that you will live no matter what! It is up to you people to open your hearts and minds. There is no such thing as death. The people I've dismissed from this reality are not at all dead. Conforming to the boundaries, and restrictions imposed by the government only reduces the substance in your lives. When 1% of the nation controls 99% of the nations total wealth, is it a wonder why there are control problems? The United States strives to provide freedom for their people. Do we really have personal freedom? I've lived here for many years, and I see much limitation. Does the definition of freedom include limitation? I've learned about the history of various civilizations in history, and I see more and more limitation. Do you people enjoy this trend of limitation? If not, change it! As long as you are uninformed about death you will continue to say "how high", when the government tells you to "jump". As long as the government is uninformed about death they will continue tell you to "jump" Is the government uninformed about death, or are they pretending?
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The phrasing of this 'I have lived here for many years' indicates to me that he/she was not born here as well as just the general wording reminds me of how some Southeast Asians I know would phrase things in English. Go to [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=114040[/url], about half way down the page, AlClenin posts the entire contents of the note. Can you say whacko? No such thing as death???? Of course, some believe that this is a gubmint conspiracy, as is everything else. Based on the 1 percent/99 percent remark, maybe it is someone who is upset that he/she is not getting enough freebies from the government, definitely someone who has nothing being upset at those who do.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:52:58 PM EDT
Actually the mail carriers around here don't really seemed phased to much. They had several call in on the local moring talk show like-ok another part of this crazy job. Also directions were given that unless the mailbox was left open, the carrier did not or was not to deliver to rural addresses. Humm, maybe I could sell kits for opening mailboxes- a piece of 50ft string! Else make and sell clear plastic boxes? I also think the profiling thing is overdone. I thought the person sounded a little foriegn from his use of phrases and language? Later IAJack
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:58:27 PM EDT
I was just going to ask if these profilers ever get it right? My educated guess is that it is actually 1-3 16-21 year old white males, from a rural community. Who have a history of pyromania, playing with fireworks, and animal cruelty involving fire and fireworks. The areas they are going to in neighboring states, besides being convinent in regards to highways, are also homes to non-immediate relatives where they are crashing and assembling batches of bombs. I was going to say "high school drop out" but it is spring so they might just be out of school now. But they are a similar kind of ner-do-well to your average school shooter, who are on a power trip
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 7:14:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2002 7:28:38 PM EDT by Goad]
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: ...In that it could fit about half the members of AR15.com, not to mention snip
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Just members in the midwest. I doubt if that is half.
Originally Posted By rallywagon They give this guy credit for IDing the Unabomber? Little hint, Over 9 years the FEDS tried to find him. It was his brother that "ID'd" him, Not this yahoo.
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The Feds were not close to finding the unibomber. Incidentally, the Unibomber had no money, no support group, and lived in poverty. Yet the Feds only caught him because his brother turned him over.
Originally Posted By LARRYG: I would disagree on the foreigner part, but I do agree with the mental health part.
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It sounds like a foreign student with extremist religious views. Must be the ADL and the Mossad working with the BATF to make fools of Americans. The Hun and Imbroglio are the ring leaders and are being paid by the Daley election fraud machine. Did I miss anybody? Oh yes. The Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission are wacking mailmen because...
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 7:15:02 PM EDT
I was unaware of the new "mailbox rules" stating I have to leave the door of the box open all the time now. This morning the mail guy ignores my mail to go that was in the box (closed) and just dropped my incoming mail off on the porch. Guess my outgoing and incoming mail is gonna get wet from here on out. BTW, I was up in Minnesota at the times in question. Added that just cause I do fit the profile [;)] Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 7:21:23 PM EDT
said Clint Van Zandt, who started his own behavioral analysis company after a 25-year career with the FBI that include leading the team credited with identifying the Unabomber
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I thought the Kaczynski's brother turned him in?
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 7:55:54 PM EDT
" the note says. ''If the government controls what you want to do, they control what you can do." and "This is a guy who is angry with government,..." Sheer genius. We are listening to a profiling phenom here. "This is someone who may well have some tax protest issues." LOL - Well now, THAT narrows it down a bit. At least we know what happens when you can't hack it as a one of Miss Cleo's tele-psychics. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 8:24:22 PM EDT
It sounds like someone has watched "The Matrix" one too many times, judging by the letter.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 8:27:16 PM EDT
Well, I guess we now know that Blaze-of-Glory was actually telling the truth.[:)] Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 9:21:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2002 9:23:12 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
FBI: Colo. Pipe Bomb Linked to Others By COLLEEN SLEVIN .c The Associated Press SALIDA, Colo. (May 7) - An FBI official said a pipe bomb found in a Colorado mailbox Monday appeared linked to 16 others found in three Midwestern states, raising concerns that the domestic terrorism spree is spreading West. ''We have a rather disturbing pattern where the subjects are moving West rather quickly,'' FBI agent Mark Mershon said. ''We're looking for someone who is mobile. We're moving mountains to determine who that is.'' A resident found the device in a sandwich bag with a piece of folded paper in the small mountain community of Salida, about 100 miles southwest of Denver. It did not explode. ''The device is consistent in description and appearance with 16 other devices recovered since Friday in Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska,'' Mershon said. He said the fact that the other devices were found in clusters makes authorities fear that more bombs may be delivered in the area. Postal carriers near Salida have been told not to deliver materials to any closed mailbox but that they could deliver to the home's front door. Mershon said he hadn't seen the paper inside with the device, so he didn't know whether it was similar to the anti-government letter found with the other devices. A bomb squad from the Colorado Springs Police Department took the bomb. It wasn't clear whether police planned to detonate it. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms spokesman Rich Marianos said a second Colorado pipe bomb was found late Monday in a field about 35 miles east of Salida. He said it did not fit the characteristics of the other devices. Also Monday, another mailbox bomb was found in rural Nebraska. It was the eighth discovered in the state and the 16th in the Midwest since last week. Six people were injured by mailbox pipe bombs in Illinois and Iowa on Friday. None of the injuries were considered life-threatening. The latest Nebraska pipe bomb was found near Hastings in the mailbox of someone who had been away for the weekend, authorities said. It did not explode. There was no immediate word on whether it was accompanied by the same anti-government note found with the other devices. The explosive was disarmed Monday evening by Nebraska State Patrol bomb technicians after it was removed from the rural Clay County mailbox by a robot. Authorities had detonated the other Nebraska bombs. There have been no arrests in the case. The FBI said Monday that the first 15 bombs clearly come from the same source, but officials have not said whether they are searching for an individual or a group.
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Link Posted: 5/6/2002 9:27:03 PM EDT
Shouldn't be too hard to catch this guy. Just look at retail outlets that had a run on tin foil... The guy's got to have it stockpiled. [img]www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/Images/tinfoil.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 9:39:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 10:25:19 PM EDT
Well golly gee! I thought you all were rationalizing about how profiling was needed right after 9-11 or against minorities. My, my, now that YOU may be the profilee how opinions have changed.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 10:39:13 PM EDT
That the bombs were planted overnight indicates they likely were not targeted at rural residents but rather at the mail carriers, Van Zandt said.
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Or simply, the bombs were planted overnight to avoid being seen. With this kind of deductive reasoning, Inspector Clouseau would be more likely to crack this case. coyote3
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 10:48:52 PM EDT
Granted, I'm not sober right now, but doesn't the majority of people who pay taxes have some kind of problem with the government? Now, isn't that about 90-something percent of the population?
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 10:53:12 PM EDT
I've seen better "profiling" in the daily horoscopes. Good old Carol Ann Riha really checked her facts well, huh?
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 1:35:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: I'd bet they're pretty close. I would *love* to see the full profile report, as I thinkyou would be as well. We'll see how close they are.
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Profiles lend nothing to an investigation. Ask any serious detective. The profiles tend to be so broad and nonspecific that literally millions of people would fit. When an investigation has found a perpetrator, the profile was found to be of little use, and frequently only partially matches the suspect's personality. Criminal profilers are about as useful as psychics to serious investigators.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 1:55:03 AM EDT
Or some front to keep terrorist incidents fresh in the media. Yes, I'm speculating! (And I'm all for 'the war on terror')
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 2:26:10 AM EDT
the profiling is not an exact science, but it does help to narrow the field. based on the evidence, similar previous cases, educated guesses and assumptions it merely helps the cops to focus on there efforts better. based on what they know this guy is probably a middle age white man who lived mostly in rural areas and has some form of education. so would it make sense to start looking for a young black woman in large cities? it IS possible that a young black woman is doing this, but the odds are against that. the Former FBI agent they interviewed in the article is making a guess, and is probably doing so based on Public info, and withOUT looking at the evidence and case file that the FBI and ATF have collected. of course 100% of the population is pissed at the govt, especially around tax day. the difference is that WE can be pissed off at the govt and then "Let it Go" and move on with our lives, and every conversation we have with our friends (and people we dont even know) isnt about how the govt sucks. the guy that is doing this probably rants and raves about the govt every chance he gets and to Everyone who will give a half listen. i think we have all talked to someone who is a bit "OFF", "Twisted", "a few screws loose" and just "not right" and we realize that they can not go on with there lives because of the anger they have with the govt and its time to call the men with the straight jackets. this would be closer to the type of person that the FBI would be looking for, and not your average joe who is pissed because he had to pay an extra $20 more this year than last on his taxes.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 4:02:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Boy, this profiling crap is almost as amusing as Miss Cleo. As pointed out by RallyWagon and Magic, this numbnuts did not catch the Unabomber. Perhaps the Unabubba in Atlanta. (Remember him?)
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Also remember the Amtrak sabotage incident in Arizona and the Anthrax mailings. No one has been caught from either of those incidents. The "unsolved" file is getting a little thick.[IMG]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/ups/krista/eeksmile.gif[/IMG]
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 4:56:02 AM EDT
A resident found the device in a sandwich bag with a piece of folded paper
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A bomb in a sandwich bag? That seems a little odd. I wonder what sort of trigger is being used.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 5:05:23 AM EDT
My favorite statement in the profile is [i]" writer may have mental health problems."[/i] Brilliant I tell you. Simply astounding powers of deduction.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 6:21:54 AM EDT
On the surface, it may seem general or non-specific, but that is on purpose. They even twist the truth sometimes as a tactic to piss-off the criminal, goading him in to action, hopefully to his downfall by slipping up in anger. Also, they NEVER give the complete profile. They hold out certain information to help weed out the loonies who falsely confess to crimes they didn't commit. Lastly, no one addressed the previous comment in regards to being for profiling in connection with terrorism and now seemed to think profiling doesn't work. Can't have it both ways.( BTW, I'm in favor of profiling)
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 7:16:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By platform389:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Boy, this profiling crap is almost as amusing as Miss Cleo. As pointed out by RallyWagon and Magic, this numbnuts did not catch the Unabomber. Perhaps the Unabubba in Atlanta. (Remember him?)
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Also remember the Amtrak sabotage incident in Arizona and the Anthrax mailings. No one has been caught from either of those incidents. The "unsolved" file is getting a little thick
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Kinda makes you think that Ross's [i][u]Unintended Consequences[/i][/u] scenario is possible, doesn't it? I heard on the radio last night that at least some of the bombs have been constructed of "6-inch water pipe" and "highly-explosive black-powder." Is that 6" DIAMETER, 6" LONG, STEEL water pipe, or PVC? And, of course, this heinous crime will justify passage of Torricelli's [url=thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107:1:./temp/~c1076bZ7jD::]Dangerous Explosives Background Checks Requirement Act [/url]. You know, the one that will eliminate mail-order powder and primer sales?
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 9:37:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2002 9:38:39 AM EDT by BenDover]
The most recent ones found in Texas and Colorado were said to be similar in construction to the other ones and were also described as being 3/4 steel pipe. A 9v battery was being used and they were described as being set to detonate from movement or touch. (mercury switch?)
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 10:05:25 AM EDT
I couldn't believe how obvious the conclusions of the profiler were. I also can't believe how obvious it would be for someone to fake this. Most high school students could build simple pipe bombs and come up with the same anti-government rhetoric.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 11:13:13 AM EDT
''This is someone whose thinking ... whose anger, sense of frustration is so strong, that he doesn't care who else is injured because he feels his message is so important,'' said Clint Van Zandt, who started his own behavioral analysis company after a 25-year career with the FBI that include leading the team credited with identifying the Unabomber. ... The use of the phrase ''attention getter'' seems to indicate the writer is older
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It turns out their suspect is 22. I remember reading their profile of the Unabomber. The part where they said the Unabomber had never finished college especially stuck in my mind. The profile was so bad I was wondering if Kozynski (sp?), who got his undergraduate from Harvard and his doctorate in mathmatics from Michigan, could have used it in his defense. The only reason they caught that guy was because his brother turned him in.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 12:39:22 PM EDT
The suspect is 5'9", 150lbs. That's WAY too thin for most people on the various gun message boards! [;)]
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 2:44:04 PM EDT
FBI Hunts for Pipe-Bomb Suspect Bureau Seeking 21-Year-Old College Student for Questioning By BETSY BLANEY .c The Associated Press AMARILLO, Texas (May 7) - The FBI said Tuesday it was searching for a 21-year-old college student in connection with a wave of pipe bombs found in rural mailboxes. Luke John Helder was seen driving a gray Honda Accord with Minnesota license plates, investigators said. Helder turned 21 on Sunday, according to a check of public records. Helder is ''a person of interest that we would like to question in connection with the series of pipe bombs found throughout the Midwest,'' FBI agent Jim Bogner told reporters in Omaha, Neb. The announcement came a day after a pipe bomb was discovered in a rural mailbox in Amarillo with a letter attached. The device was similar to the 17 pipe bombs found in four other states, the FBI said. Earlier, Bill Morgan, a police spokesman in Lubbock, Texas, said an all-points bulletin described Helder as armed and dangerous. Bogner, however, said he could not confirm that Helder had a gun. Bogner said Helder is believed to be somewhere in Texas.
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Hey! I was right![:D] Maybe I could be a profiler, how much does one pull down a year anyways?? I get a kick out of this part:
Earlier, Bill Morgan, a police spokesman in Lubbock, Texas, said an all-points bulletin described Helder as armed and dangerous. Bogner, however, said he could not confirm that Helder had a gun.
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If I were him I would go FAR outside Texas before trying to surrender, after this little slip of the tongue.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 3:01:05 PM EDT
The timing is perfect, and the materials used are too well suited to garner support for that mail order ammo ban...... this wreaks of a government setup.
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