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Posted: 5/5/2002 10:45:55 PM EDT
I am watching one of those cop video shows narrarated by a man and woman cops. They show videos of convinience store robberies and say you are best off just giving them the money. Then, IN THE VERY NEXT SCENE, a clerk gets shot even though he is complying, and they say that is what happened. Do they not see failings in their logic? I was just stunned.
Link Posted: 5/5/2002 10:53:42 PM EDT
I just wonder why they dont show the videos where the criminals get away, Ive seen thousands of these, and everyone gets caught, you know some of them get away. I would love to get in a high speed pursuit, just to SEE if I could get away, You know just to see for fun.. not because I was running from anything, but its not LEGAL!, dammit.... If the LEO cant catch you, you should get off scot free, no setting up road blocks, or calling backup, just one on one, thats cheating. oh well.
Link Posted: 5/5/2002 11:14:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ratters: They show videos of convinience store robberies and say you are best off just giving them the money. Then, IN THE VERY NEXT SCENE, a clerk gets shot even though he is complying, and they say that is what happened. Do they not see failings in their logic?
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Sure they see it. They just can't admit it, because if they did, they would be out of a job. I'll connect the dots for ya. It's well-known that thieves aren't one-timers; they've robbed before and they'll rob again. Sometimes the same place. I would estimate that the cops can count on each crook generating 30-40 cases over their lifetime. What would happen if store owners started sending the goblins to the morgue? Those cases never materialize. If enough of them get capped, people start feeling safer (because they are) and pretty soon, there will a bunch of cops sitting around doing nothing. Then, when the Police Levy comes up for renewal, it gets voted down, resulting in cops losing their jobs. This is really bad for the FOP, since it will lose dues-paying members. It's the same reason cops oppose concealed carry here in Ohio. Decreased crime=bad for business.
Link Posted: 5/5/2002 11:25:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Armalite_Shooter:
Originally Posted By Ratters: They show videos of convinience store robberies and say you are best off just giving them the money. Then, IN THE VERY NEXT SCENE, a clerk gets shot even though he is complying, and they say that is what happened. Do they not see failings in their logic?
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Sure they see it. They just can't admit it, because if they did, they would be out of a job. I'll connect the dots for ya. It's well-known that thieves aren't one-timers; they've robbed before and they'll rob again. Sometimes the same place. I would estimate that the cops can count on each crook generating 30-40 cases over their lifetime. What would happen if store owners started sending the goblins to the morgue? Those cases never materialize. If enough of them get capped, people start feeling safer (because they are) and pretty soon, there will a bunch of cops sitting around doing nothing. Then, when the Police Levy comes up for renewal, it gets voted down, resulting in cops losing their jobs. This is really bad for the FOP, since it will lose dues-paying members. It's the same reason cops oppose concealed carry here in Ohio. Decreased crime=bad for business.
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exactly
Link Posted: 5/5/2002 11:37:44 PM EDT
I've seen those types of shows many times before. I remember one where they show a owner of a convenience store getting into a fire fight with a robber. Even though the robber shot every round in his gun, he never hit the shop owner. However, the owner shot and wounded the robber a few times before he got out of the store. The cop narrating says, "We don't advise using a gun and escalating things." Yeah, but I bet that guy, if he didn't die, wont be back to THAT store again. USPC40 ------------------------------------------------- [b][blue]NRA Life Member[/blue][/b] - [url]www.nra.org[/url] [b][blue]GOA Life Member[/blue][/b] - [url]www.gunowners.org[/url] [b][blue]SAF Supporter[/blue][/b] - [url]www.saf.org[/url] [b][blue]SAS Supporter[/blue][/b] - [url]www.sas-aim.org[/url] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 1:20:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 1:44:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Armalite_Shooter: Sure they see it. They just can't admit it, because if they did, they would be out of a job. I'll connect the dots for ya. It's well-known that thieves aren't one-timers; they've robbed before and they'll rob again. Sometimes the same place. I would estimate that the cops can count on each crook generating 30-40 cases over their lifetime. What would happen if store owners started sending the goblins to the morgue? Those cases never materialize. If enough of them get capped, people start feeling safer (because they are) and pretty soon, there will a bunch of cops sitting around doing nothing. Then, when the Police Levy comes up for renewal, it gets voted down, resulting in cops losing their jobs. This is really bad for the FOP, since it will lose dues-paying members. It's the same reason cops oppose concealed carry here in Ohio. Decreased crime=bad for business.
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Beware, Beware!! You better shut up lest you be called a cop basher. [;)] The police are only one ring of the government protection racket. Government doesn't like the idea of people being able to do things without it because it wouldn't have any power. Notice how the antis always use the "protection is what the police and military are for" argument? Liberals are [b]always[/b] pro-dependency because the more dependent the people are, the more power government can acquire. Socialists absolutely love the idea of government enforced egalitarianism, but they can't have it without the people being unquestioningly dependent on the government for their very survival.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 3:57:12 AM EDT
[url]http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/2498735p-2962658c.html[/url]
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 4:15:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 5:48:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2002 5:48:50 AM EDT by AZCOP]
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By USPC40: The cop narrating says, "We don't advise using a gun and escalating things."
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Of course not. Only POLICE are qualified to do so. If you get shot and killed, well, that's too bad. Better you die then make it obvious that the police can't protect you, and that your own protection is YOUR business. As Armalite_Shooter said: "Bad for business." -Troy
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Yep, Only I am qualified to "escalate" things. [:)] I watched about 10 seconds of those two. One was LAPD, and one was LASO: Even less likable than John "Hollywood" Brunell. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:25:28 AM EDT
I have a plan: A ma-deuce beside every cash register in America, specially rigged so that the MG must be gripped for firing in order to open the cash register. Ain't gone be no steekin robberies then. [:D] This plan has a bonus. With fewer police needed, there will be fewer telemarketer calls from FOP asking for a free handout. Good riddance.
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:27:09 AM EDT
I agree, most police units don't like an armed populace. When Virginia first passed the 'shall issue' statue I jumped in line to get my concealed permit. Back then you had to go down to the police station, get fingerprinted and a mug shot taken, back in the booking area, JUST LIKE YOU WERE A CRIMINAL!!! They did their best to make me feel like one too. I can assure you there are many ordinary citizens out there who can handle firearms as well, if not better, than many cops. The 'problem' is that bad guys are not stupid. If they have a choice of robbing somebody they know is armed or one they know isn't, which one do you think they will rob?
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 2:29:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 2:46:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2002 6:54:29 PM EDT
Ohh I see, as a cop, I'd rather have some poor sap trying to put food on his kids table die a sensless death so that I can have a job during the time I'm not stuffing donuts down my throat... Yea, thats the ticket!
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 6:20:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ECS: I agree, most police units don't like an armed populace. When Virginia first passed the 'shall issue' statue I jumped in line to get my concealed permit. Back then you had to go down to the police station, get fingerprinted and a mug shot taken, back in the booking area, JUST LIKE YOU WERE A CRIMINAL!!! They did their best to make me feel like one too.
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You know last place that hired me a LEO, does all it's LEO fingerprinting and photos in the booking area. That's where the camera and figerprint machine is. So you either got treated like a criminal or a LEO. Welcome to the team here's a donut.
I can assure you there are many ordinary citizens out there who can handle firearms as well, if not better, than many cops.
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Thanx nice story. There's a continuum, some of my co-workers shoot competitively, some don't care for guns. Of course we don't know anybody (non-cop) that has guns in their house that has no idea how the gun works, or how to safely handle it. Yes some cops aren't great, but they all have to meet a minimum standard. The only minimum standard for gun owners is having enough cash to buy a gun.
The 'problem' is that bad guys are not stupid. If they have a choice of robbing somebody they know is armed or one they know isn't, which one do you think they will rob?
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Most of the time that is true. But it goes even further than that. Criminals look for "victim types". You not not situationally aware, scared of their own shadow, no self confidence types. They are more likely to be picked out to be picked on. Don't ever underestimate the stupidity of criminals. I worked on a burglary arson. The BG's broke into a gas station store and tried to burn the place down by putting a can of charcoal starter on some boxes it and lighting the fluid. Good plan exepct the boxes they put it on were cases of bottled water. The fire burned a cardboard box, that melted the water bottles, which let the water out, which put out the little fire. Of course BG's also decide based on a risk/benefit type analysis. They don't want to fight armed people, but all armored car guards, that handle lots of money, are armed. Then there is always alcohol or drug induced courage. Or desperation to get money to get drunk, high, or whatever. The reason they say that "don't fight back" stuff is MOST of the time the BG's want money. They don't have any beef with the robbee per se, but they want the money. Often times they are nervous, and have a finger on the trigger, not a good combo. If you startle them they might shoot, w/o meaning to. If you get hit, you are just as dead from a ND as an intentional well aimed shot. The problem is that a certain percentage of the robbers, either because of drugs, alcohol, or just plain meanness, will hurt you for no reason.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 6:21:16 AM EDT
If you run into a robber that wants to shoot or one that "freaks" because he meets resistance, the danger is that BG's are TERRIBLE shots. They will fire a lot of "to whom it may concern" kind of rounds, w/o thinking. Which can be real dangerous, to anybody anywhere near the armed robbery scene. Of course there should be a "line in the sand" kinda thing. Don't leave the original crime scene. If they are putting you in a car it is because they want to take you someplace to KILL you. If they tell you to get in the closet, walk in freezer, or vault again probably bad news they want you someplace that will muffle the sounds of gunfire and that will make it more difficult for your bodies to be found.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 7:59:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Armalite_Shooter: Sure they see it. They just can't admit it, because if they did, they would be out of a job. I'll connect the dots for ya. It's well-known that thieves aren't one-timers; they've robbed before and they'll rob again. Sometimes the same place. I would estimate that the cops can count on each crook generating 30-40 cases over their lifetime. What would happen if store owners started sending the goblins to the morgue? Those cases never materialize. If enough of them get capped, people start feeling safer (because they are) and pretty soon, there will a bunch of cops sitting around doing nothing. Then, when the Police Levy comes up for renewal, it gets voted down, resulting in cops losing their jobs. This is really bad for the FOP, since it will lose dues-paying members. It's the same reason cops oppose concealed carry here in Ohio. Decreased crime=bad for business.
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LMFAO!!!! Have you gotten a little jaded here,or are things that slow in your town? 'Round here, for every one in jail, there's probably a felony going on right now. I won't say there aren't a few self-serving cops, but I've never known more than a very small minority who come close to what you're describing. If you want your PD to be constantly so busy that they can only respond to calls and don't get much slow time to actually LOOK for crime, why don't you move to Waverunner's 'hood?
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 8:18:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: Yes some cops aren't great, but they all have to meet a minimum standard.
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What's the min. requirement? A pulse? Breathing at least once a minute?
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 8:37:14 AM EDT
Check this out: [url=http://www.survivalforum.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=398&mode=nested&order=0&thold=0]Businessmen: 1st-degree murder for shooting intruder[/url]
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 8:54:54 AM EDT
Our minimum standard is 85%. 55 rounds (with magazine changes) timed, from 3 to 30 yards into a 15" diameter half silouhette. Shotgun is 25 rounds buck, 10 slug. (None of that wimpy tactical low recoil stuff.) Also timed, to 50 yards. If you carry a patrol rifle, school is one week long with 1100 rounds expended, qualification is 20 rounds from 100 yds into a 6" circle, also timed. Optics/red dots not allowed. All courses require the use of cover. We're trying to add a 1/2 mile run to the requirements before shooting, but there is lots of debate as to whether time the run with the course of fire or not. Of course, I'm sure all the posters here can do better, but that does not explain those "Self inflicted gunshot wound" calls EMS gets, or all those holes in the tables, roof, and walls at my local shooting range.
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