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Posted: 5/3/2002 11:30:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2002 12:18:55 AM EDT by Blaze-Of-Glory]
If you were ordered to confiscate guns, would you consider the order legal? Would you follow it?
Link Posted: 5/3/2002 11:45:45 PM EDT
YES they will and do. Do you really expect them to give up their Job, Family and way of life for nothing more than your personal rights?
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 12:21:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2002 12:24:10 AM EDT by Blaze-Of-Glory]
I've known some LEO's who would consider the order to be illegal, and would not follow it. I think the answer varies from region to region, and from officer to officer; so I hope that on this thread, we non-LEO's will keep quiet and let the LEO's speak for themselves.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 12:58:52 AM EDT
Why the hell could we keep quiet?? And do you really expect any leo here to answer that they would confiscate firearms?? Or are you just trying to stir up shit again?? Sgtar15 BTW, were is that proof about the FBI?? Did you send GoatBoy his $10??
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 1:02:02 AM EDT
(Yawn) BTDT, this topic is played out B-O-G...do a search and you'll see for yourself.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 1:06:17 AM EDT
Waverunner=good guy [^] [^] Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 2:04:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2002 2:13:38 AM EDT by Blaze-Of-Glory]
Originally Posted By Waverunner: (Yawn) BTDT, this topic is played out B-O-G...do a search and you'll see for yourself.
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Thanks, I didn't realize the LEO's had chimed in already. I keep hearing non-LEO's claim "LEO's all would follow the order"; but then I also hear individual LEO's say, "no I would not follow that order", so I'm trying to gauge where the LEO's really stand on this. (sgtar15, the reason you should keep quiet is that the question was directed to LEO's, you are not one, and you cannot speak for them.)
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 2:21:20 AM EDT
That question you ask has way too many variables involved. Just realize that LEO's do have [b]discretion[/b] regardless of who or what their supervisor/boss tells them to do, we are not mindless [s]robot[/s][BD] pawns.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 5:36:09 AM EDT
My eyesight isn't perfect. And even if it were, I cannot see everything. I mean, if I searched your house and couldn't see it, it must not be there. Besides, the cops I know would all be too busy trying to hide their own firearms to go searching other people. misanthrope747
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 6:48:16 AM EDT
They would all do as they are told and some with glee as they get to dress up in hoods and don their fun gear.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 6:52:07 AM EDT
I wonder how the LEO's in Shitcago would answer this question?
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 7:24:10 AM EDT
I keep hearing non-LEO's claim "LEO's all would follow the order"
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I don't need anyone speaking for me, thank you very much! [b]Supervisor;[/b] Officer take this list of peoples names living on this block, go door to door and confiscate every firearm. [b]Officer;[/b] [moon] I DON'T THINK SO!
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 7:35:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 8:02:15 AM EDT
Puff_of_Smoke Since you are also not a LEO than what give you the right to ask the question?? Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 8:32:25 AM EDT
I am sure that members of Chicago's CAGE unit are carefully screened for political reliability. The concept is very reminiscent of SS einsatzgruppen, which were used for "special enforcement" activities, like genocide..
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 8:35:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 8:40:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 9:06:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: Since you are also not a LEO than what give you the right to ask the question?? Sgtar15
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Try to remember that as long as the forum conduct rules are not being broken, a member is allowed to post as he or she pleases. Please don't think I am trying to be an ass or flame you bro - it's not like that at all. If I were asking our LE members a specific, honest question, I would probably post it in their forum, though [:D] Tyler
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 9:12:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 10:07:54 AM EDT
Considering that I only attain peace officer status while flying, and even then I don't get paid for the job but am instead forcibly 'volunteered' through legislation, AND I've had a firearm confiscated before [in the off chance you missed the story, I'm officially not guilty, cops lost their jobs and I lost a battered old gun] Hell no. And 'legal' is solely governed by laws, which are made by politicians. Would you consider politicians who have never seen the situation and never owned a gun to be justified in telling you to take a man's property without payment? If so, what happens next, when you've got his property and the whole world knows you took it? Quite a problem to start and shoulder for the sake of enforcing a silly gun law.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 11:11:44 AM EDT
There won't be any need to confiscate guns. In a couple of generations the public schools will have trained the people so well that no one will want to have guns around.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 11:22:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By misanthrope747: My eyesight isn't perfect. And even if it were, I cannot see everything. I mean, if I searched your house and couldn't see it, it must not be there. Besides, the cops I know would all be too busy trying to hide their own firearms to go searching other people. misanthrope747
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Yup first group of cops to hide what they have are the ones that forged thier police dept letter head in order to get LEO only ar15's... and as soon as there personal arsonal was secure they would proudly go after yours and mine. They will lay them all out on the ground so CNN can get it all on a live feed and he gets a promotion... Sorry Decent 99.9999% of LEO's out there but the other .0001111% really fuckes it up for everyone... Cluster
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 12:10:32 PM EDT
This topic has been debated over, and over, and over, and over...... Here's the the bottom line, BOG- some will, some won't, and we won't know who really falls on which side of the fence until it happens. The only point of this exercise is to make the pot-stirrers like you feel important.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 12:20:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy223: My brother is a LEO and quite pro gun. I put this question to him and his responce was something like "Screw that. I am not getting shot over something like that. Let the ATF take the bullet."
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Is he also going to passively watch as gun owners are taking bullets from the ATF? IMO LEO can say all they want now about not participating in gun confiscations, but when it comes right down to when the orders are actually given, most will obey.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 12:51:38 PM EDT
Think its dangerous getting the guns out of the hands of the criminals? Wait till you try to do it to the honest people. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 1:01:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By schapman43: Think its dangerous getting the guns out of the hands of the criminals? Wait till you try to do it to the honest people. [:)]
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.. [b]there[/b] is the root of this proplem... as soon as the order comes down to: A. get out of the donut shop. B. go door to door collecting firearms that is where the [b]honest people/criminal[/b] line starts to blur... the local LEO is simply following ( and they will follow) thier orders. If at that piont you dont give .... then you are now no longer an honest lawabiding person.. you are now a criminal... Who was that Great man that said.. [b]Flick of the wrist.... law of the land?[/b][puke] Cluster
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 1:04:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2002 1:14:19 PM EDT by Blaze-Of-Glory]
Originally Posted By TylerDurden: If I were asking our LE members a specific, honest question, I would probably post it in their forum, though [:D]
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That would make sense. I didn't think I was allowed to post questions in there.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 1:50:50 PM EDT
What will be interesting to watch is the blackpowder reenactment community. All those .75 caliber Brown Bess', the .54 caliber Charleville muskets, the .58 caliber Springfields - all illegal... What will also be interesting to see is if the Chicago AG will sue mail order blackpowder companies like Navy Arms for 'negligent marketing' for allowing a Chicagoan to buy an illegal firearm by mail..
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 2:16:05 PM EDT
I have worked in an agency under the Department of Justice for over 15 years. I would not go into homes in a widespread search to confiscate weapons of those who legally own them under the laws of the state in which I live. Those who are in possession of firearms because of a commission of a prior felony do not legally own firearms unless their rights have been reinstated. Should prior felons be banned from gun ownership. If the crime had nothing to do with violence or firearms, or say a threat of violence. I believe their gun rights should be restored. A majority of the people I have worked with believe that gun ownership is a right with to many restrictions already. I donate through the Combined Federal Campaign to two NRA programs and to Gunowners of America (I believe the GofA is one I donate to). That said, not all people I work with are of the same belief. A young supervisor, former Marine like myself, was asked if he would enter peoples homes for widespread confiscation of firearms without search warrants if so ordered. He said if he was ordered to confiscate firearms by those over him that he would do so without question. The question and his response was made in front of a number of fellow officers who are all owners of hunting firearms, handguns, AR's and AK's. My response to him was that he would have made a good little Nazi and probably would have enjoyed rounding up Jews for the death-camps. Needless to say, I held not a very favorable place with this rookie supervisor after that.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 2:30:45 PM EDT
I wouldn’t take regular guns off the average Joe. I would, however, be extremely proud to confiscate an illegal machinegun off a crack dealer with a rap sheet a mile long.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 2:41:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2002 2:45:09 PM EDT by cluster]
wiseweasel02
I would not go into homes in a widespread search to confiscate weapons of those who legally own them under the laws of the state in which I live
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what if the state laws changed ... today at 1500 hours. And it was technicly illegal for me to own a 10/22. would the fact the there was now a law on paper that siad I cound not have that anymore change your mind about coming to get it? If like any one else a LEO needs a job .. would you continue with these now legal searches and confications untill you could find another job? It nice to say "I wont to it" but in reality its just part of the job , is it not? again.. not trying to start an argument just believe when the time comes if it is now a law on paper saying a 10/22 is banned ... a LEO will do his/her job... edited to add *************** and god bless them for doing thier [b]job[/b].. we cant have indivdual LEO deciding what laws they will or will not uphold... if it comes to that piont we have failed ourselves for letting the law get passed, ,for reelectioning the ass that brings it up every year in commitee untill someone finnialy,sp. let there guard down...
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 3:04:39 PM EDT
here's the letter i sent to mayor daley. Dear Mayor Daley: I am outraged upon hearing the news of your new city-wide ban on "assault weapons", a ban that has conveniently extended itself by including various common hunting rifles & handguns. Mr. Mayor, you were once quoted as saying, "Every gun we take off the street is one less gun that can be used to maim or kill." Every law abiding firearm owner couldn't agree more. However, you unconstitutionally crossed line from the "streets" and into people's homes via your new law, and your elite CAGE unit. This is terrifying! The very thought of this concept of gun enforcement is reminiscent of Hitler's SS troop's engaging in the same activity only decades ago. Even more alarming is that your law, and the CAGE unit, effects the city's own police officers. Most saddening of all, because the guns your law now targets are overwhelmingly owned by law abiding citizens, they will no doubt cooperate by turning them in. But for their sake, hopefully they'll keep what's entitled to them & just move. Further more, the premises of this new law assumes that the actual criminals will voluntarily surrender their tools of the trade. A concept that is not only highly doubtful, but is also destined to fail. You have done everything short of deputizing these criminals. Criminals that will surely find more comfort in preying on once law abiding gun owners. I will have no reservations about surrendering my badge if I'm ever subject to enforce such personally motivated laws that insist I violate people's rights. After all, I have to be happy with the person i see in the mirror every day. Finally, myself & millions of others can only pray that the officials, we the people, elect into office will not follow your administration's example of gun control. In parting, I'm curious Mr. Mayor, did we both raise our right hands and be sworn to the same constitution? Shame on you! Sincerely, Res. Ofc. XXX (i removed my name on this copy for privacy reasons)
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 3:29:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sf46: I wouldn’t take regular guns off the average Joe.
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What do you mean by a regular gun? Suppose average joe had (illegally) a full auto .50 with 50,000 rounds of belted ammo in his basement. Would you go in to take that from him? (assume he's not at home so you don't have to worry about getting perforated)
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 3:34:25 PM EDT
I can understand completely how a LEO can take pride in his work and put his life at risk to protect people from criminal activity and other dangers and to uphold the Constitution of the U.S., but what I won't understand is why any LEO would risk his life to take away a gun from any law-abiding citizen, who has the right to own it, who knows how to use it and may use it against that LEO. People will do crazy things when their freedoms are on the line. I don't think any job is worth anyone's life to be a puppet of some dictator-like politician out to control the world. I'd rather work at at McDonalds than be a police officer who goes to peoples houses and takes away their freedoms because some Mayor Yahoo told me to. ...But that's just me [b]ArmaLiter[/b]
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 7:28:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cluster: wiseweasel02
I would not go into homes in a widespread search to confiscate weapons of those who legally own them under the laws of the state in which I live
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what if the state laws changed ... today at 1500 hours. And it was technicly illegal for me to own a 10/22. would the fact the there was now a law on paper that siad I cound not have that anymore change your mind about coming to get it? If like any one else a LEO needs a job .. would you continue with these now legal searches and confications untill you could find another job? It nice to say "I wont to it" but in reality its just part of the job , is it not? again.. not trying to start an argument just believe when the time comes if it is now a law on paper saying a 10/22 is banned ... a LEO will do his/her job... edited to add *************** and god bless them for doing thier [b]job[/b].. we cant have indivdual LEO deciding what laws they will or will not uphold... if it comes to that piont we have failed ourselves for letting the law get passed, ,for reelectioning the ass that brings it up every year in commitee untill someone finnialy,sp. let there guard down...
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Instead of picking one line of mine to quote: I put my money where my mouth is and donate hundreds of dollars yearly to support gun rights under the 2nd ammendment. Money that is used to lobby for gun rights, money to defend court those whoe are accused of violating laws as interpreted by the ATF. Fortunately, I live in a state where the current gun laws are what I would consider quite liberal. Though with a senator like John McCain even that could change. I am close enough to retirement that I will probably never be put to the test. And being an employee of the Federal instead of state gov't, I would not be called upon to enforce a solely state law. That would be handled by state authorities. Futhermore; with the number of AR's and AK's I legally own, I would suffer as much if not more than many on this site with widespread confiscations. I was recently stopped for speeding while crossing the United States on vacation. Interstate 44 in MO. The state officer walked up to my car and asked how fast I thought I was going. I responded 74 and he responded 78 and stated he wasn't going to give me a ticket but would I step back to his vehicle. It was a canine unit and the dog in back barked alot when I got in. The officer asked what was in the green bag in the back of my vehicle. Clothes. I told him he could check if he liked. He didn't. I said to him that I was glad that I had not brought some of the guns with me that I had planned on since I was crossing so many state lines. The officer said I would have no problems going through MO. with firearms as they could legally be transported through the state if unloaded and in a case. I was also driving through Chicago though and had some reservations with going through that city with an AK or two and a couple of my AR's. By the way, I found out later that I44 is a drug corridor and I was being profiled due to AZ plates.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 7:58:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmaLiter: I can understand completely how a LEO can take pride in his work and put his life at risk to protect people from criminal activity and other dangers and to uphold the Constitution of the U.S., but what I won't understand is why any LEO would risk his life to take away a gun from any law-abiding citizen, who has the right to own it, who knows how to use it and may use it against that LEO. People will do crazy things when their freedoms are on the line. I don't think any job is worth anyone's life to be a puppet of some dictator-like politician out to control the world. I'd rather work at at McDonalds than be a police officer who goes to peoples houses and takes away their freedoms because some Mayor Yahoo told me to. ...But that's just me [b]ArmaLiter[/b]
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Nuff said. I agree 110%, it really is that simple. If I were an LEO, how could I see it differently?
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 8:19:49 PM EDT
My guess (and I'm being generous) is that 85% of LEO's WOULD confiscate firearms. 60% of those would do it because they would [b]proudly[/b] be doing their job to uphold whatever reason the confiscation was happening. The other 40% would STILL do it even though they don't like it. Confiscation has been happening more in this country the last few years, and [RED]I HAVE NOT HEARD ONE STORY OF AN OFFICER STANDING UP AND SAYING NO, BASED ON THE 2ND AMENDMENT.[/RED] There will be no confiscation of "Legal" firearms. First those legal firearms must be made ILLEGAL, then the LEO's would be at your door. That's how it happens. That's how it happened in Kalifornia, and that's how it's happening in Chicago.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 8:33:43 PM EDT
I would have to say, first of all, is or would there be a legitamate reason for confiscating a person's personal firearms. Are they a prohibited possessor? I do not believe there is any law, at least where I am from, that would allow for wholesale confiscations of lawfully owned weapons? Unless you think the U.N. is going to swoop down on their black helocopters and take everyone's weapons. Don your tin hats, gentlemen and ladies. LEOs like myself are sworn to obey the LAW, not to barge in and violate peoples constitutional rights. Ok, I will give credence to the fact that this has happened in the past, even recently, in isolated incidents. But don't say we are police officers just because we want to be all powerful, demigods who think we can do what we want. Most of us are hard working joes just like you, who go to work, collect a paycheck, and go home to our loved ones just like you. Ok, sure my job entails arresting sh**tbirds on occasion, and writing tickets, and doing things that are unpleasant to some people. I became a police officer to because I believe it is a noble profession. There are the jaded ones. But I think I can make a difference in a small way, and that is why I put a uniform on every day. So for those of you who lump us all into the bad cop, take your civil liberties away, raging a-holes, give it a rest. And move to Arizona, like me. You can own all the weapons you want, and register not a one. My .02
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 8:45:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2002 8:46:37 PM EDT by AlClenin]
Originally Posted By Aladdin: I would have to say, first of all, is or would there be a legitamate reason for confiscating a person's personal firearms. Are they a prohibited possessor? I do not believe there is any law, at least where I am from, that would allow for wholesale confiscations of lawfully owned weapons? Unless you think the U.N. is going to swoop down on their black helocopters and take everyone's weapons. Don your tin hats, gentlemen and ladies. LEOs like myself are sworn to obey the LAW, not to barge in and violate peoples constitutional rights. Ok, I will give credence to the fact that this has happened in the past, even recently, in isolated incidents. But don't say we are police officers just because we want to be all powerful, demigods who think we can do what we want. Most of us are hard working joes just like you, who go to work, collect a paycheck, and go home to our loved ones just like you. Ok, sure my job entails arresting sh**tbirds on occasion, and writing tickets, and doing things that are unpleasant to some people. I became a police officer to because I believe it is a noble profession. There are the jaded ones. But I think I can make a difference in a small way, and that is why I put a uniform on every day. So for those of you who lump us all into the bad cop, take your civil liberties away, raging a-holes, give it a rest. And move to Arizona, like me. You can own all the weapons you want, and register not a one. My .02
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Just doing your job, ja? Seig Heil! I think the post right before yours pretty much shoots your "isolated incident" comment out of the water.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 9:32:12 PM EDT
My first grouchy flame on this board so I better put my suit on. There is a great assumption among several people that have posted here stating their firm belief that LEO's would salivate at the thought of taking firearms away from law abiding citizens. And that cops don't care about the constitution. That they are mindless, robotic thugs, that do whatever some lame-brain politician tells them to. I'm not sure what professions these people earn their living with, but I guess I'm going to start making assumptions about them. If you all are accountants, I bet you're low life embezzlers, cheating your employer out of profits. If you're a mechanic, I bet you sell little old ladies the super new air filter that increases gas milage by 25% and leave her old one her car. And then use the one she paid for in your own car. If you're a doctor, I bet you fondle your patients when they're under anesthesia. If you're a factory worker, I bet you steal from the factory and sell to pawn shops. And I bet you all do every snivelling little thing your boss tells you to so you can keep your paycheck so you can go on living your pathetic life and making broad generalizations about people you don't even know. Sheez, you all disgust me. I know that I will probably read this tomorrow and wish that I hadn't written it. But what the heck could I do, my boss told me to write it. Every profession has good, bad, and indifferent people in it. Get used to it. That's how the world works. Like my mother used to say, "if you had a brain, you'd take it out and play with it." misanthrope747
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 9:42:36 PM EDT
Just doing your job, ja? Seig Heil! I think the post right before yours pretty much shoots your "isolated incident" comment out of the water.
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Uh, hello... The post above mine said "My guess (and I'm being generous)." So I would say you should not talk out of your a** without some hard facts. If you actually read the posts, and provided your own insight, instead of quoting them and saying "na-na-nana-na" you might sound more intelligent.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 9:47:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: Puff_of_Smoke Since you are also not a LEO than what give you the right to ask the question?? Sgtar15
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Man, I told ya bro, you are a [:K]TROLL! GG
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 9:47:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2002 9:59:25 PM EDT by AlClenin]
Originally Posted By misanthrope747: My first grouchy flame on this board so I better put my suit on. There is a great assumption among several people that have posted here stating their firm belief that LEO's would salivate at the thought of taking firearms away from law abiding citizens. And that cops don't care about the constitution. That they are mindless, robotic thugs, that do whatever some lame-brain politician tells them to.
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I don't think that they salivate at the thought, but i don't think many would balk at taking the guns. Suppose there were a total ban of all AR15 type guns. Instead of asking you to go door to door, your employer asks you to man a collection center where people come turn in their guns. Would you do that? If so then you are as bad as the chicago CAGE unit in my opinion. I don't think there would be many cops who would turn down an order to man a "turn in" station. I've heard some objection to going around grabbing guns that is based on not wanting to get shot. So lets take that danger away, would you man voluntary confiscation centers? Based on what has happened in the very anti-gun states i'd say that the leos here who say that they wouldn't enforce an unconstitutional law are the exception not the rule. A question for LEOs here: If you pulled me over on the highway at night going 15 mph over the limit and saw a loaded full auto AK on my front seat would you pretend to not have seen it? I'd be very surprised to get out of such a situation without going for a ride in the back of your car.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 9:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2002 9:56:35 PM EDT by AlClenin]
Originally Posted By Aladdin:
Just doing your job, ja? Seig Heil! I think the post right before yours pretty much shoots your "isolated incident" comment out of the water.
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Uh, hello... The post above mine said "My guess (and I'm being generous)." So I would say you should not talk out of your a** without some hard facts. If you actually read the posts, and provided your own insight, instead of quoting them and saying "na-na-nana-na" you might sound more intelligent.
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He made a good argument. Why not quote it? If so many leos wouldn't confiscate guns, then how do you explain california and chicago (and others) ? See the part in [red]BIG RED LETTERS[/red] in his post? Maybe you should actually read the post. That is one of the best points i've seen in this argument and I have seen no explanation of it from the "I wouldn't grab the guns" side. By saying 85% was generous he meant (and correct me if I'm wrong) that it would likely be much higher than 85%.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 9:58:18 PM EDT
A question for LEOs here: If you pulled me over on the highway at night going 15 mph over the limit and saw a loaded full auto AK on my front seat would you pretend to not have seen it? I'd be very surprised to get out of such a situation without going for a ride in the back of your car.
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First of all, you seem to have it in for LEOs in general. Been in the back yourself lately? Second, there is no law (at least in my State) that you could not have it. If you have it legally, what is the problem? I don't have the ATF on speeddial, as much as you would like to believe. How am I going to know it is full auto from looking at it, shoot out your tires to check? NOT. I would be more worried at a pistol on the seat, I can see the AK being brought to bear. Mind you, I would not conduct my business with you still in the car. You would be stepping out and joining me at the passenger side of my patrol unit. But as for you getting hooked up? Well, not on my watch. There obviously is no way to change your attitude based on your posts. But again, Police are human. Try not to forget we put our pants on in the morning just like you.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 10:03:35 PM EDT
What compels you non-LEO's to talk over the LEO's on this thread? If you are non-LEO and have a point to make, why not respect the title of this thread and make your point in another thread?
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 10:07:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlClenin: He made a good argument. Why not quote it? If so many leos wouldn't confiscate guns, then how do you explain california and chicago (and others) ? See the part in [red]BIG RED LETTERS[/red] in his post? Maybe you should actually read the post. That is one of the best points i've seen in this argument and I have seen no explanation of it from the "I wouldn't grab the guns" side. By saying 85% was generous he meant (and correct me if I'm wrong) that it would likely be much higher than 85%.
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So you know first-hand of the actual cofiscations in those areas of the country? Or are you basing your facts...er... opinions on other opinions. If the confiscations are illegal, do you think they would continue without litigation? I am sure the NRA would be jamming lawyers down the throats of the prosecutor's officer pretty fast. Maybe this is a black helicopter scenario. I do not have any prior knowledge of these confiscations, only what appears on this board. So I will not defend the confiscations, based on the fact that I know only OPINIONS that have been posted here. You have your absolute right to your opinion. That is protected by the constitution. So is the right to bear arms, of which I stand behind as well, LEO or not. LEOs love guns as much as you do for fun. Don't forget we have lives outside of standing in line all day to confiscate your full auto AK.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 10:09:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aladdin:
A question for LEOs here: If you pulled me over on the highway at night going 15 mph over the limit and saw a loaded full auto AK on my front seat would you pretend to not have seen it? I'd be very surprised to get out of such a situation without going for a ride in the back of your car.
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First of all, you seem to have it in for LEOs in general. Been in the back yourself lately?
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Personal attack. Good way to argue champ.
Second, there is no law (at least in my State) that you could not have it. If you have it legally, what is the problem? I don't have the ATF on speeddial, as much as you would like to believe. How am I going to know it is full auto from looking at it, shoot out your tires to check? NOT. I would be more worried at a pistol on the seat, I can see the AK being brought to bear.
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Do you see the point of my imaginary scenario? If not then lets revise it. Make the loaded full auto AK on my front seat one that I am not allowed by law to have. Make it an AK converted to full auto after the machine gun ban. Further (and here we delv into fantasy) suppose you somehow know all of the things about the gun that make it illegal. I'm not sure how the laws work in AZ so I can't make up a precise situation in which it would be clear to you that I have a gun that I am not allowed by law to have.
Mind you, I would not conduct my business with you still in the car. You would be stepping out and joining me at the passenger side of my patrol unit. But as for you getting hooked up? Well, not on my watch. There obviously is no way to change your attitude based on your posts. But again, Police are human. Try not to forget we put our pants on in the morning just like you.
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There is a way to change my attitude. Convince me that there are any cops who would let me go in the above scenario.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 10:16:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boom Stick: My guess (and I'm being generous) is that 85% of LEO's WOULD confiscate firearms. 60% of those would do it because they would [b]proudly[/b] be doing their job to uphold whatever reason the confiscation was happening. The other 40% would STILL do it even though they don't like it. Confiscation has been happening more in this country the last few years, and [RED]I HAVE NOT HEARD ONE STORY OF AN OFFICER STANDING UP AND SAYING NO, BASED ON THE 2ND AMENDMENT.[/RED] There will be no confiscation of "Legal" firearms. First those legal firearms must be made ILLEGAL, then the LEO's would be at your door. That's how it happens. That's how it happened in Kalifornia, and that's how it's happening in Chicago.
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Jesus, what do you expect in places like California or Chicago. Places ruled by liberal bleeding hearts because some apathetic a**holes don't get off their couches and vote these creeps out of office. As for law enforcement officers not standing up for 2nd amendment rights. I believe some of the county sheriffs in Arizona filed lawsuits fighting the Brady bill background checks.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 10:22:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlClenin:
Originally Posted By Aladdin:
A question for LEOs here: If you pulled me over on the highway at night going 15 mph over the limit and saw a loaded full auto AK on my front seat would you pretend to not have seen it? I'd be very surprised to get out of such a situation without going for a ride in the back of your car.
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First of all, you seem to have it in for LEOs in general. Been in the back yourself lately?
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Personal attack. Good way to argue champ.
Second, there is no law (at least in my State) that you could not have it. If you have it legally, what is the problem? I don't have the ATF on speeddial, as much as you would like to believe. How am I going to know it is full auto from looking at it, shoot out your tires to check? NOT. I would be more worried at a pistol on the seat, I can see the AK being brought to bear.
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Do you see the point of my imaginary scenario? If not then lets revise it. Make the loaded full auto AK on my front seat one that I am not allowed by law to have. Make it an AK converted to full auto after the machine gun ban. Further (and here we delv into fantasy) suppose you somehow know all of the things about the gun that make it illegal. I'm not sure how the laws work in AZ so I can't make up a precise situation in which it would be clear to you that I have a gun that I am not allowed by law to have.
Mind you, I would not conduct my business with you still in the car. You would be stepping out and joining me at the passenger side of my patrol unit. But as for you getting hooked up? Well, not on my watch. There obviously is no way to change your attitude based on your posts. But again, Police are human. Try not to forget we put our pants on in the morning just like you.
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There is a way to change my attitude. Convince me that there are any cops who would let me go in the above scenario.
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I guess I'm building a scenario that strays quite a bit from the "performing door to door confiscations" imagined at the start of the thread. I'll buy that there are a few who would not act on that order. When it comes down to enforcing unconstitutional laws slightly less nazi-like when compared to door to door confiscation (most restrictive gun laws for example) I think there aren't very many at all that would refuse that kind of order.
Link Posted: 5/4/2002 10:23:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlClenin: Personal attack. Good way to argue champ.
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Uh...Humor...Ever hear of it?
Do you see the point of my imaginary scenario? If not then lets revise it. Make the loaded full auto AK on my front seat one that I am not allowed by law to have. Make it an AK converted to full auto after the machine gun ban. Further (and here we delv into fantasy) suppose you somehow know all of the things about the gun that make it illegal. I'm not sure how the laws work in AZ so I can't make up a precise situation in which it would be clear to you that I have a gun that I am not allowed by law to have.
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No, I do not see the point. You just made your fantasy scenario impossible. What your are saying is that you are placing an obviously illegal item in plain view on the passenger seat. I know, lets revise the scenario further. On your front passenger seat is a big package with a white substance inside, and on the outside is labeled HEROIN. ...or... On your front passenger seat is a 6 year old child. You have a T-shirt and identification labeling you as a child molester. The scenario you descride, and I describe, are all FELONIES. Therefore, your point is made. You do not pass go, you do not collect $200.00. So what is your point. You want some blind cop to ignore it? You are stacking the deck, and begging to get arrested in your scenario.
There is a way to change my attitude. Convince me that there are any cops who would let me go in the above scenario.
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No good LEO would let you walk away, so I do not see your point.
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