Most versitile camo?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Most versitile camo?

Posted: 4/30/2002 4:04:43 PM EDT

What do you guys think? I am of the opinion that most of the military stuff (USGI Woodland, British DPM, Swiss Alpenflage, German Fleck) is to dark to be effective in anything but heavy woodland (green)type cover. In open grass, or in the Fall when the leaves have dropped, your nothing but a dark blob stumbling through the woods. I use to have a destain for commercial, heavily marketed apparel, but some of this stuff seems to work rather well. I have a Mossey Oak jacket that is damn near invisible in just about any terrain. I found some new stuff called Safariflage , which seems to be pattered after the British DPM, only lighter in color. What are your opinions on the subject?

Posted: 4/30/2002 4:24:17 PM EDT

[#1]

I like the woodland in my urban situations. While in Washington State the dark woodland patterns fell in just fine with the dark shadows cast by the plentiful and thick trees. In the forest visibility is limited to a few dozen yards to begin with, unless the target was moving or making noise the camo blends very well with the dark trees and leaves.

I don't hunt but do keep my eyes open. Here in the Southern California deserts either 3 or 6 color patterns work well but in the cities amoung the homes and parks the woodland works well. The six color chocolate chip pattern worked very well everywhere but best in the rocks, the three color better in the open than the 6-color.

I would keep to the plentiful shadows and watch my background though in an urban situation wearing woodland colors.

Posted: 4/30/2002 4:32:38 PM EDT

[#2]

An important lesson about how camo is supposed to work, and why most of it doesn't:

[url]www.whitetail.com/camo1.html[/url]

The best *military* camo for all-around use is the 6-color-desert, due to its LARGE, HIGH-CONTRAST patterns, with a light background.

The commercial camo referenced in the article above appears promising, but it isn't available in BDU style clothing AFAIK.

-Troy

Posted: 4/30/2002 4:34:33 PM EDT

[#3]

The problem I have with the military camo is the heavy greens. In hunting season (at least towards the end as the leaves fall and the days are shorter and often overcast) the colors seem too bright/light because of the green, rather than too dark.

Troy's article about Predator camo is good. The point is too break up your silhouette. I don't see the point of camo with acorns painted on it, from a distance the patterns are too fine and don't do the job. Unfortunately I haven't seen Predator available. LL Bean had it for a year or two, but I don't think they do anymore. The one place I found with predator seemed limited in what styles and fabrics they had-seems like very promising stuff that has not taken off.

When I took my hunter safety course, many years ago, the instructor mentioned about breaking up silhouettes and showed us a picture where he was wearing home made camo-a flightsuit type olive drab suit that he had spray painted with random black stripes-he was very hard to spot against a wooded backdrop.

Posted: 4/30/2002 5:10:45 PM EDT

[#4]

This is the safariflage...

[img]www.soldiercity.com/graphics/products/bdus/1966.gif[/img]

Posted: 4/30/2002 6:00:47 PM EDT

[#5]

Rhodesian camo - it's somewhere between Safariflage and Serengetiflage in color. The olive/dark yellow/brick red German WW2 camouflage works very well, too.

Posted: 4/30/2002 6:42:28 PM EDT

[#6]

I like the German 'Desert Storm' Flecktarn - it matches my part of Texas better than anything else I've found.

I used to have a steady source, now it's all dried up.

This is a sample of what it looks like:

[img]http://www.mcaroy.com/euro%20camo/desertm43.jpg[/img]

I have a couple of complete BDUs and a few coats, some shirts, in this style!

Eric The(Germanic)Hun[>]:)]

Posted: 4/30/2002 9:14:45 PM EDT

[#7]

Damn, Eric, I've been looking for that German desert fleck for years. My buddy traded for a set while serving in Desert Storm, stuff works great. Better than our 3 color desert. If you somehow manage to locate anymore, give a holler.

Posted: 4/30/2002 9:27:26 PM EDT

[#8]

Troy
Was that you the author mentioned and had in the pic in his website?

Posted: 4/30/2002 9:54:29 PM EDT

[#9]

Anyone know of a source for the German BDUs? Thanks ahead for any tips.
W

Posted: 4/30/2002 10:12:13 PM EDT

[#10]

For woodland flecktarn BDUs:

[url]http://www.wephaus.com/german_flectarn_uniforms.html[/url]

For 'desert storm' Flecktarn...nichts!

I have no idea where to get anymore.

My sole supplier was a fellow from Stuttgart named Siegmund Steffan, but he stopped coming to the Texas Gun Shows about 5 years ago!

Eric The(SOL)Hun[>]:)]

Posted: 5/1/2002 12:29:09 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Troy
Was that you the author mentioned and had in the pic in his website?

View Quote

No. It is just a great page that illustrates most people's misconceptions of how camo is supposed to work.

Eric,

The desert flecktarn works for the same reason the US 6-color desert works: the background is a light, neutral color that covers about 2/3, with large, dark, irregular shapes making up the rest.

I've found that the desert stuff works remarkably well even in the forest. If you're more than 50 feet away and you stop moving, you're virtually invisible.

-Troy

Posted: 5/1/2002 12:40:13 AM EDT

[#12]

my prob with camo is if i wear woodland people mistake me for the airforce base personal.

man that german desert camo looks sweet thu i got to find em a set.

Posted: 5/1/2002 1:00:19 AM EDT

[#13]

Good article Troy. Thanks.

I've noticed when bowhunting with my partner that our camo becomes very dark when it gets rained on. In this state that's about every day during deer season. This goes for woodland/advantage and realtree. The material itself gets dark when wet and the breaking up qualities are gone. We end up as dark human shapes sneaking around the boonies.

Those guys in that article are on to something.

A "sort of" related side note. On the lines of "sharp contrast vs subtle shades", I remember reading an article (and seeing it on history/discovery channel) of where the army tried to camo a tank at distance. The best camo was several very bright lights so the tank had no silhouette as viewed from a distance. It isn't very practical, but I thought it interesting.

Posted: 5/1/2002 2:12:53 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Anyone know of a source for the German BDUs? Thanks ahead for any tips.
W

View Quote

Sportsmans Guide sells a lot of this stuff, although I know some is out of stock. I was at their outlet warehouse today ( I am close), and they were out of the Med sized pants. They will get more, guaranteed.

Posted: 5/2/2002 11:05:49 AM EDT

[#15]

Mossy Oak is pretty good but just latched on to some desert pattern tigers and really like them...

Posted: 5/2/2002 1:59:37 PM EDT

[#16]

Hmmm...I've been using the woodlands since 1976, and believe it's the most versatile there is. I also own the Vietnam tiger stripe, and it kicks ass in the pines of the high country of AZ. I also use the safariflage, and it really works well in the desert here, as long as you stay in or close to some sort of vegetation. I have the newest (?) desert camo that the military is wearing in Ashcanistan, and consider it the LEAST versatile. The flectars look pretty effective, buy I don't own any yet. My girlfriend has all Mossy Oak and Realtree, which works very well IF USED WITH A GOOD BACKDROP OR OTHER COVER AND CONCEALMENT. To me, that stuff sticks out like a turd in a punchbowl AS SOON AS YOU MOVE. Granted, nothing works if you're standing right out in the open, but I DO think that some work better than others.

Posted: 5/2/2002 5:34:37 PM EDT

[#17]

At the CA state High Power Championships at Camp Pendleton last weekend I was able to see some Marines in their new camo. I know there have been pics posted of it, but seeing it live and up close next to another Marine wearing the old style camo was a revelation. The new camo is very effective. It may not look like it in a pic but it is distorting to the eye to look at. Against mixed greenery and / or dry brown grass, even when the guy was standing up 10 feet away, it works. The old camo stands out like the proverbial sore thumb while the new camo blends into everything. No one color or pattern stands out regardless of the background. Even when the guy was shooting prone his legs blended with the dirt (he was wearing a shooting jacket at the time) Hard to explain. But if I could get some of that I would.

Posted: 5/2/2002 6:32:10 PM EDT

[#18]

The new Marine camo is basically the Canadian CANPAT design, with a different color scheme. The Canadians started this design way back in '88, and gave the Marines all their technical knowledge so they could produce their own. CANPAT was voted as the most effective camo in recent NATO tests. I'll try to find the link.

Posted: 5/2/2002 10:44:57 PM EDT

[#19]

What it looks like at 10 feet isn't what's important. It's what it looks like at 50 yards that's important.

-Troy

Posted: 5/2/2002 11:12:08 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
At the CA state High Power Championships at Camp Pendleton last weekend I was able to see some Marines in their new camo. I know there have been pics posted of it, but seeing it live and up close next to another Marine wearing the old style camo was a revelation. The new camo is very effective. It may not look like it in a pic but it is distorting to the eye to look at. Against mixed greenery and / or dry brown grass, even when the guy was standing up 10 feet away, it works. The old camo stands out like the proverbial sore thumb while the new camo blends into everything. No one color or pattern stands out regardless of the background. Even when the guy was shooting prone his legs blended with the dirt (he was wearing a shooting jacket at the time) Hard to explain. But if I could get some of that I would.

View Quote

I have to agree. I've never considered my issue camo to be very effective. If nothing else, the terrain where we train most often (Fort Hunter-Liggett) looks nothing like the Woodland. The new patented design for the Corps, as I saw at Pendleton this past weekend, was impressive. I can't wait to get my hands on it, as it seemed incredibly effective. I think he could easily have disappeared into the brush behind the 600.

Posted: 5/3/2002 1:34:32 AM EDT

[#21]

The MARPATs, and CADPATs, work off the way the human mind works, instead of breaking up your outline, it causes the mind to fill you in as empty space and ignore you.

Posted: 5/3/2002 7:32:11 AM EDT

[#22]

IMHO, the best camo if a pair of old Woodland BDU's that have been washed to the point where they are extremely faded and lightened. Add in several years of light colored dirt stains, and the stuff works great! Olive drab isn't bad either. For fall camouflage in a deciduous forest, I find that oddly enough, very,very light colored, open patterns, even oranges and yellows, work extremely well against the light backgrounds.

Posted: 5/3/2002 6:35:14 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
What it looks like at 10 feet isn't what's important. It's what it looks like at 50 yards that's important.

-Troy

View Quote

Well Troy, I saw it at ranges from 10 feet to 200 yards. And believe me it works. At times, if it hadn't been for the fact this one guy was wearing a solid green sweat shirt I would have missed him completely. It was weird, even when he was walking his legs just kind of weren't there. See Stlrn's post. The design messes with your head. It's not the one sees something but just doesn't know what, the mind just seems to kind of ignore what it sees. It's not mean't to blend in with the surroundings. It's mean't to make the wearer disappear into them.

Posted: 5/3/2002 7:20:59 PM EDT

[#24]

This is the Swedish M90 camo that utilizes geometric shapes in order to fool the brain. This was also designed with the help of computers. Definitely location specific, but scores high in the "cool" category.

[img]www.aos.nu/img/articlepics/m90.jpg[/img]

Posted: 5/3/2002 7:21:37 PM EDT

[#25]

Urban...

[img]http://users.pandora.be/rags/illusion4-1.jpg[/img]

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Most versitile camo?

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