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Posted: 4/27/2002 10:43:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2002 10:53:05 PM EDT by kill-9]
Ever since the attacks on 9/11, Secretary Powell has, in my view, undermined President Bush's efforts to deal effectively with terrorism. His calls for "moderation" and a "measured response" are handcuffing the administration. I think that he and his staff at State are largely responsible for the mess that is our mideast policy. Personally, I would be very glad if he was shown the door. [b]Edit:[/b] If you vote "Asset" I'd be very interested in hearing why. -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 11:39:28 PM EDT
Asset. He's exactly the measured response "element" in what would either be the Nuke 'em All resolution or, God forbid, a Jesse Jackson solution. Could be worse, I guess.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 11:52:27 PM EDT
As I do not trust anyone who is anti-gun, I do not trust him.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 7:02:58 AM EDT
I don't know. I havn't seen him act. The only time that I have seen Collin Powell in action was when he was doing a defense review for the senate committee. Those Democrats were having their way with him. They were trying to decide what is the littlest possible force structure the US could have and still be capable of fighting a single front war and two regional wars. I was yellin at the TV, "JUST TELL THOSE SOB'S NO COLLIN, TELLEM ITS STUPID TO GO SO LOW." But of course he stuck to his role and what he was asked. It was not his place to decide what was enough it was the Senate's. I think Collin Powell just fills his role. That is it, he doesn't overstep his bounds. He is not the president for goodness Sakes. He is merely one of the Cabinet. He can't say what he thinks, he just does what he is told. That is the only Collin Powell I know of. Ben
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 7:24:39 AM EDT
His Rodney King, 'can't we all just get along' attitude does more harm than good... nothing worse than someone who just sits on the fence speaking hollow words... This situation will only escalate unless someone grows some balls in the current Administration and lets the IDF do what needs to be done... but we know that's not going to happen... we're too busy holding hands with the Saudi terrorist leader, worried about our next tank of fuel in our overpriced yuppie-mobiles...
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 7:33:05 AM EDT
peacenik at any cost, especially the interests of the U.S. seems willing to surrender faster than a french general. we need a big 'swinging' stick at the state dept, not one with a 'we can cede that to you'[:)] attitude. he needs to go.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 9:20:54 AM EDT
BusMaster, do you really think that a "measured response" is called for? Should we not go balls to the wall in destroying terrorists and those who harbor them? -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 10:52:39 AM EDT
Liability
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 12:13:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2002 12:15:17 PM EDT by zonan]
Colin powell is a closet democrat. I don't know why so many right wing people like him (because he's a minority?). He is anti-gun, pro-affirmative action, and I think pro-abortion. The only thing he doesn't agree with the democrats on is probably defense.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 12:30:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 1:07:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2002 1:08:02 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
Originally Posted By kill-9: BusMaster, do you really think that a "measured response" is called for? Should we not go balls to the wall in destroying terrorists and those who harbor them? -kill-9
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Well, yes. I'm of the NUKE 'EM philosophy, 'cuz I'm not a 'grey area' kinda guy... That was my short answer in the first post. The reason I look at this in that way: Don't laugh, now. I watched an episode of 'La Femme Nikita' in which the head of Section One, "Operations", explained to Nikita why they didn't just take out Saddam. His reason was that there's only one Saddam, and that situation is controllable. Take him out and 25 more like him would spring up, putting the situation WAY out of control. Lesser of two evils. Nuke 'em All or Jesse Jackson? Too much, too soon; and sending a guy that doesn't even belong in the mix. Hey, I'm all for the balls to the wall attitude, but, there's gotta be a reason these (our)people are doing what they're doing and We the People may not know the whole story. I agree that Colin Powell is strangely one of the people of this day that seems to think the world needs to be "socialized" (which has failed EVERY time) and that the Constitution of the United States is somehow an outdated document...go figure. I wasn't trying to be an uninformed, off-the-cuff dickhead, I just see things as being played out perhaps above our heads or behind the scenes. He's more of an asset than a liability 'at this time'.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 5:59:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zonan: Colin powell is a closet democrat. I don't know why so many right wing people like him (because he's a minority?). He is anti-gun, pro-affirmative action, and I think pro-abortion. The only thing he doesn't agree with the democrats on is probably defense.
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Well said, though I think he's probably closer to the Dems on defense than we'd like to think. -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 6:09:30 PM EDT
Asset. Gen. Powell understood and Secretary Powell understands that the interest of the United States are not served by Israel or the Palestinians but by the Muslim oil producing states and Turkey. Both Turkey and Arabia are strategic to U.S. interests.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 6:24:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Both Turkey and Arabia are strategic to U.S. interests.
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Turkey, maybe, but are you referring to the same "Arabia" which produced people who flew planes into the WTC, killing thousands of Americans? -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 6:47:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Asset. Gen. Powell understood and Secretary Powell understands that the interest of the United States are not served by Israel or the Palestinians but by the Muslim oil producing states and Turkey. Both Turkey and Arabia are strategic to U.S. interests.
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I agree 110%...I know why the Dems hate Powell, a self made VERY successful man.....
Originally Posted By kill-9 Turkey, maybe, but are you referring to the same "Arabia" which produced people who flew planes into the WTC, killing thousands of Americans?
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No he was referring to the same "Michigan" that "produced people" (McVeigh, a decorated American & Nichols another American) who killed hundreds of Americans, including children and pregnant woman... tyvvm
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 2:46:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 6:15:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Asset. Gen. Powell understood and Secretary Powell understands that the interest of the United States are not served by Israel or the Palestinians but by the Muslim oil producing states and Turkey. Both Turkey and Arabia are strategic to U.S. interests.
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I agree 110%...I know why the Dems hate Powell, a self made VERY successful man.....
Originally Posted By kill-9 Turkey, maybe, but are you referring to the same "Arabia" which produced people who flew planes into the WTC, killing thousands of Americans?
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No he was referring to the same "Michigan" that "produced people" (McVeigh, a decorated American & Nichols another American) who killed hundreds of Americans, including children and pregnant woman... tyvvm
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CavVet, your point is tenuous at best. It's a fact that Arab countries foster a culture of hatred for America. The majority of Arabs dislike or even hate the U.S., whereas I expect that it's less than one percent of Michigan residents. -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 2:17:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2002 2:22:08 PM EDT by CavVet]
Originally Posted By kill-9: CavVet, your point is tenuous at best. [red]It's a fact[/red] that Arab countries foster a culture of hatred for America. [red]The majority of Arabs[/red] dislike or even hate the U.S., [red]whereas I expect[/red] that it's less than one percent of Michigan residents. -kill-9
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And whats the difference between unsubstantiated "facts", unsupported polls and errant supppositions?....Nada..... Talk about tenuous..... Since you obviously missed [b]My[/b] point, allow me to explain. [b]My[/b] point is that [b]ALL[/b] enemies, [b]both[/b] foreign [b]AND[/b] domestic should be dealt with swiftly and severly. I dont care if you are a Methodist from [b]Idaho[/b] or a Muslim from Portugal. If you have a problem with "US", we should collectively have a problem with you. If you kill Americans, there will be [b]NO[/b] safe place for you on this Earth, or elsewhere. An eye for an eye [b]IS MY[/b] mandate to our government. [b]Anything less is unacceptable!!![/b]
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 2:51:36 PM EDT
Post from CavVet -
If you kill Americans, there will be NO safe place for you on this Earth, or elsewhere. An eye for an eye IS MY mandate to our government. Anything less is unacceptable!
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That's strange to hear, [b]CavVet[/b], 'cause from the signing of the Oslo Peace Accords in 1993, until August, 2001, there have been eighteen (18) American citizens killed by the actions of Palestinian terrorists in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Quick, go get your weapons and join me in the settling of scores for these dead American citizens. [b]Or do these American citizens not count.[/b] And I can assure you that since August, 2001, there have been many more American citizens killed as the result of Palestinian terrorism. Bear with me a few minutes and I'll go see if I can obtain their names and the circumstances of their deaths! Eric The(O.K.???)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 2:56:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 3:25:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2002 3:26:11 PM EDT by CavVet]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: [b]Or do these American citizens not count.[/b]
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Evidently you missed this, so let me say it again....
Originally Posted By CavVet: [/red]My point is that ALL enemies, both foreign AND domestic...[/red]
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I kinda think my statement speaks for itself. However I notice you ONLY direct your wrath at the Arabs....18 Americans in 8 yrs, versus again, OK City...how many in 5 minutes??? Are you giving the Americans a pass? A little anti-Arab are we??? Or is it pro-????? Please explain... [red][b]ONE MORE TIME IN PLAIN ENGLISH....LETS GET ALL OF THEM, ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.....NO EXCEPTIONS[/b][/red]and by the by, I actually do think, while an enemy is easier to villify, identify and fight, the enemy within is the scourge that needs dealt with much quicker. As they have special freedoms enjoyed by being the home team, they ARE the proverbial Devil in the Blue Dress.....
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 4:35:04 PM EDT
Post from CavVet -
However I notice you ONLY direct your wrath at the Arabs....18 Americans in 8 yrs, versus again, OK City...how many in 5 minutes??? Are you giving the Americans a pass?
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The individual American, Timothy McVeigh, gets no pass. As a matter of fact, he passed. But American Society had nothing to do with that idiot. Certain foreign societies worship violence against their enemies. Their religious leaders beg for violence upon their enemies. Their religious leaders refuse to denounce terrorism. How many American preachers, priests, rabbis, mullahs, etc., [b]failed[/b] to condemn the actions of Timothy McVeigh? There's a world of difference between these two societies!
A little anti-Arab are we??? Or is it pro-????? Please explain...
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Well, being a citizen of the 'Great Satan', I'm not certain I need to explain my antipathy towards the Arab world. They need to explain theirs toward us! Or did I just dream that they were dancing in the streets on Sept 11th? Eric The(Pro-American)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 9:03:03 PM EDT
Oh boy, lookee here, Powell has a big fan, now: [size=4]Clinton Urges Support for Powell[/size=4] By LYNN BREZOSKY Associated Press Writer April 28, 2002, 11:22 AM EDT McALLEN, Texas -- Former President Bill Clinton urged support for Secretary of State Colin Powell's peacekeeping efforts in the Middle East during an appearance Saturday night. "I think some of the negative publicity about Colin Powell's trip has been wrong," Clinton told reporters at a fund-raiser for Hispanic college students attended by about 400 people. "No matter how long they fight or how many people die, in the end if there's going to be peace there has to be security and normal relations with neighbors," Clinton said. "There has to be justice and economic opportunities for the Palestinians." Powell's recent trip to the Mideast did little to stop the violence. The State Department has announced that Powell will hold a new round of talks next week with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov and top officials of the European Union. The leaders are expected to meet in Washington to discuss how to get Mideast peacemaking back on track. President Bush recently criticized Clinton, saying his failed 2000 Mideast summit had resulted in a "significant intefadeh." Clinton has declined to comment on the criticism. See article at:[url]http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-clinton-mideast0428apr28.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dnationworld%2Dheadlines[/url] Eric The(StrangeBedfellows?No,NotReally!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 6:45:56 AM EDT
ETH, well that seals it, doesn't it? Any friend of Clinton's... CavVet, OK, you got me. I'm usually pretty good, but I didn't catch your subject-switching troll at first. Now that I realize what you're up to, I'll act accordingly. -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 10:07:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2002 10:09:18 AM EDT by CavVet]
Its weird when you stop to realize alliances here... The Taliban AND the McVeigh & similar types are [b]BOTH[/b] against the American govt. [b]Both[/b] claim to be resentful of the boot on their collective neck. [b]Both[/b] killed Americans who were neither policymakers nor enforcers. [b]Both[/b] are the bad guy. But the distinction of true enemy only falls to the foreigners. Our terrorists thought it up on their own. Their terrorists were taught this by their government. Our terrorists were victims. Their terrorists were savages. In Oklahoma our government was wrong. In the 'ganistans our government is right.... These are the views I see coming from you [s]sheeple[/s] guys. The only difference I see (hate to say it, [red]Nomex on[/red]) is skin color....And where exactly does (original thread topic) Colin Powell fall in here??? Or is simply being a moderator and not a warmongerer a bad thing? Is peace too peaceful? If one dares to not suck Israels ass are they always wrong? Remember, the state of Israel, in 1948, was established in [b]PALESTINE[/b]... Can we just get some continuity on these issues??? Cant bad just be bad? Cant enemies of the state ALL have a price on their colletive heads? I ask for the death of all terrorists, and am called a troll, and denounced. Call it anyway you want to. You have your opinion, I have mine. But when one terrorist is better than another terrorist something is wrong with the math [b]AND[/b] the mathmetician.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 6:43:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: Its weird when you stop to realize alliances here... The Taliban AND the McVeigh & similar types are [b]BOTH[/b] against the American govt. [b]Both[/b] claim to be resentful of the boot on their collective neck. [b]Both[/b] killed Americans who were neither policymakers nor enforcers. [b]Both[/b] are the bad guy.
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I totally agree. [b]Both[/b] enemies, foreign and domestic, [b]are enemies[/b].
But the distinction of true enemy only falls to the foreigners. Our terrorists thought it up on their own. Their terrorists were taught this by their government. Our terrorists were victims. Their terrorists were savages. In Oklahoma our government was wrong. In the 'ganistans our government is right.... These are the views I see coming from you [s]sheeple[/s] guys. The only difference I see (hate to say it, [red]Nomex on[/red]) is skin color....And where exactly does (original thread topic) Colin Powell fall in here??? Or is simply being a moderator and not a warmongerer a bad thing? Is peace too peaceful? If one dares to not suck Israels ass are they always wrong? Remember, the state of Israel, in 1948, was established in [b]PALESTINE[/b]... Can we just get some continuity on these issues??? Cant bad just be bad? Cant enemies of the state ALL have a price on their colletive heads? I ask for the death of all terrorists, and am called a troll, and denounced. Call it anyway you want to. You have your opinion, I have mine. But when one terrorist is better than another terrorist something is wrong with the math [b]AND[/b] the mathmetician.
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A terrorist is a terrorist is a... In the case of McVeigh, the government did the right thing, they destroyed the terrorist. My concern with Powell is that his conduct and that of his department are going to impede our ability to do the right thing and destroy the foreign terrorists. -kill-9
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