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Posted: 4/27/2002 9:14:42 PM EDT
What is going on lately. In the last week I have been to 3 places of business (a resturant and 2 convience stores) where I have walked in and have been greated by the wonderful smell of chloramine gas!!! What the hell are these people doing! Don't they know that you can't mix ammonia and chlorine bleach to make a super cleaning solution?!?!?!?! Each time, I have had to stop and explain that they are playing with a possible lethal gas. Each time they look at me like I am some wacko. Only the resturant people took me seriously (I am a regular and they know that I wasn't messing around). They went straight to the cleaning lady and asked what she was mixing. She just lifted the bottles of ammonia and bleach and motioned to the bucket (older hispanic lady that doesn't speak english). I just yelled NO!!! and shook my head, then made the sign of choking. Should have seen the panic in her eyes after that! Every couple of years the local news explains this issue, I guess it is time to call them and remind them that it is time for an public update.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 9:22:44 PM EDT
... Ah, yes. Phosgene gas. The poor mans chemical weapon.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 9:25:27 PM EDT
Back in '93, I was on mess duty in Japan, and one of the cooks (a LCpl, just like I was at the time) tried to make us mix them and I said hell no. So he goes and gets a Cpl, and said that I was refusing an order, and I SLOWLY explained the situation (and danger) to the the Cpl. Then I asked if they had the Material Safety Data Sheets for ammonia and bleach, and they looked at me like I was speaking martian. Needless to say, THAT cleaning evolution didn't happen their way!!
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 9:26:41 PM EDT
Somewhere, I saw a list of common household chemicals that turn letal. You'd be surprised at how innocently we see some of them, and how deadly they can become when mixed.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 9:37:11 PM EDT
I was at a friends house where I warned them about storing other chemicals with the pool chemical stuff. thier thompson's water seal eventualy leaked into the hard chlorine tablet bucket. you could see where the heavier than air gas flowed across the grass into the neighbors yard. the grass wass all dead and so was the neighbors cat. the cloud went downhill for about five yards.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 10:13:37 PM EDT
FYI chlorine gas is one of very few gasses that has particles small enough to go through the filters in a gas mask. Not the kind of stuff you want to play with.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 4:17:07 AM EDT
well one good thing abot chorline gas it reeks so bad u know ure getting hit by and it and can get the hell out of there.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 7:48:53 AM EDT
Thats the kind of stuff someone might use if he/she had some kind of unwanted rodent critter living under his or her shed in the backyard espically if they happened to live in a conservative neighborhood which frowned on .22's going off in the adjacent yard . But of course this is only theortical .
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 8:46:12 AM EDT
another interesting combo drop a pool chlorine tablet into a mayonaise jar full of turpentine it instantly makes a cloud of dark gray/black smoke and generates a lot of heat probably a lethal cloud, but I didn't breath any of it in
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 8:54:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By green18: I love when someone tells me that I am using deadly chemicals on my golf course. I always then ask them if they realize how deadly some common household chemicals are and that mixing ammonia and bleach together could easily kill their whole family. They usually leave me alone after that.
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Link Posted: 4/28/2002 9:09:48 AM EDT
I used to be a supervisor at Frito Lay's largest plant in Frankfort, Indiana. Working second shift, I was usually the shutdown supervisor on Friday or Saturday nights. Before we had a decent sanitation supervisor, it was my job to coordinate the sanitation before I went home. Give the wage rates in the area, sanitation operators were usually ~$8.50 part timers who would rather have been at home or their "other" jobs. Not a week went by where some yahoo wouldn't try to make a "witches brew" that they thought would make their jobs easier. Other than repetitive stress injuries (carpal tunnel, rotator cuffs, etc), these guys had the highest injury rates (eye trauma, inhalation, chemical burns) due to their stupidity. We finally got a full time supervisor who kept a close tab on these walking timebombs.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 10:09:58 AM EDT
Speaking of deadly household fumes, you should smell my wife's cooking. [:D]
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 10:17:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: Speaking of deadly household fumes, you should smell my wife's cooking. [:D]
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Growing up, the phrase in my house was... "Where there is smoke, there's dinner!" mom hated that phrase, but it fit!
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 11:03:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DonR: Somewhere, I saw a list of common household chemicals that turn letal. You'd be surprised at how innocently we see some of them, and how deadly they can become when mixed.
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If possible could you find and post the list of these chemical mixtures? Never knew about Bleach and Ammonia until today...
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 11:11:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sharky30: another interesting combo drop a pool chlorine tablet into a mayonaise jar full of turpentine it instantly makes a cloud of dark gray/black smoke and generates a lot of heat probably a lethal cloud, but I didn't breath any of it in
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i'm not gonna ask why in the fuzzuck you did this. sounds neat though.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 11:19:15 AM EDT
Here's an oldie but a goodie: Never, never, NEVER store brake fluid near pool chlorine. Mix them and you get a time-delay incendiary device. Some high-school kids here in Tucson quite a while back poured some into a scuba tank and sealed it. Several didn't live to make graduation.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 11:22:56 AM EDT
One time my mom poured chlorine bleach into toilet to clean it, and I peed into it and created a bellow of white smoke. Cruel trick to play on dear friends.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 1:07:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cgwahl: Never knew about Bleach and Ammonia until today...
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hmm thats funny says right on the bottle of bleach. course it only works with a cholorine based bleach
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 1:18:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Javak: One time my mom poured chlorine bleach into toilet to clean it, and I peed into it and created a bellow of white smoke. Cruel trick to play on dear friends.
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Sounds like someone should drink more water
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 1:28:15 PM EDT
If you want to know other mixtures not to make all you have to do is read the side of the bottles on your chemicals that you have stored at home.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 1:32:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... Ah, yes. Phosgene gas. The poor mans chemical weapon.
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Not quite. Phosgene is carbonyl chloride, COCl. What makes it especially bad is it hydrolyzes in the lungs to carbon monooxide and hydrochloric acid. If you don't suffocate from the carbon monoxide, you drown from the HCl as the body responds to the low pH by adding large volumes of fluid.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 8:20:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Guncrazy223: FYI chlorine gas is one of very few gasses that has particles small enough to go through the filters in a gas mask. Not the kind of stuff you want to play with.
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Actually gas masks with Cl2 rated filter cartridges are good up to 5 ppm concentration but a self contained breathing appuratus is highly recommended ! From NIOSH; CL2-Reacts explosively or forms explosive compounds with many common substances such as acetylene , ether, turpentine, ammonia, fuel gas, hydrogen & finely divided metals.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 8:48:01 PM EDT
Pool Chlorine is usually a class 5 (Oxidizer) and will react with just about everything. Solid Tri-Chlor, Calcium Hypoclorate and Sodium Di-Clor all common pool chemicals are extremely dangerous if tampered with. Ex.-if an open container of chlorine was to have one cup of water, or dirt or a metal object added to it, It would start a chemical fire and also produce an extremely toxic smoke. About 5 years ago around here a local garden supply company accidentally spilled fertilizer in to a container of Chlorine resulting in a Hazmat callout and a 4 mile radius of police blockade. Without providing information that can possibly be used for improvised chemical munitions, I would suggest that with questions regarding Hazmat information to contact their local Fire Department or OSHA, both usually have plenty of available information. JerrY PS If a container states "it is a Violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconstant with its label" that usually means that if mixed with something else it is potentially hazardous to human health.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 9:00:34 PM EDT
I used to work for a pool company in high school and let me tell you I despise the smell of clorine.. I think the boss told me not to let the muratic acid and chlorine mix.. it was mustard gas? Also said oil or gas (petro products?) with bleach would cause fire? Nasty stuff.. Should have seen all the holes in my work shorts and shoes.. And that chlorine smell doesn't come off your hands too quickly..
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 9:28:22 PM EDT
I read about it online when doing some research for chemistry class in high school (one of those times when you use a search engine and the results aren't quite what you're looking for)
Originally Posted By quietshoez:
Originally Posted By sharky30: another interesting combo drop a pool chlorine tablet into a mayonaise jar full of turpentine it instantly makes a cloud of dark gray/black smoke and generates a lot of heat probably a lethal cloud, but I didn't breath any of it in
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i'm not gonna ask why in the fuzzuck you did this. sounds neat though.
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Link Posted: 4/29/2002 9:32:55 PM EDT
Years and Years ago. I was working at a 'Central Hardware', erm Dont think they ever were national, sorta a cheesey Home Depot. Somebody I worked with was cleaning the floor after closing. Sweeping up the spilled fertilizers, potting soil, cow manure, etc. Well this genius Cleaned the Pool Chem isle, had a 40something lbs pool clorine spill, then went and cleaned the ammonium nitrate section. Put 20-30 lbs of Ammonium Nitrate on top of the Clorine and left the metal garbage can in the stock room half filled with this stuff. Since both were granules and dry, not much happened right off. A couple hours after the store closed though they got hot enough to set off a sprinkler head in the stock room. The Water pouring into the can really wasnt the best thing, seems it accelerated the reaction. When the FD got it under control it had melted the garbage can and two huge metal stock room shelving units (the kind you can store paletized loads weighing tons on). No telling what kinda fumes came off that fire.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 9:48:18 PM EDT
COCl2 is phosgene and is made by decomposing trichloracetic acid at 290C for about 2 hours. I only give that recipe because schoolkids can't do it. It takes specialized apparatus. The stressed bonds in some of the halogen salts can indeed react with stressed bonds in certain organic compounds. gasoline and the old type of Drano made before the safe enzyme based version comes to mind. Br real careful with that stuff. There are worse things in lfe than being dead. BTW, the concentrated bleach in the toilet is a great one. I loved to do that to my fraternity brothers.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 12:40:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Guzzler: What is going on lately. In the last week I have been to 3 places of business (a resturant and 2 convience stores) where I have walked in and have been greated by the wonderful smell of chloramine gas!!! .....
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Isn't chloramine used in small quantities for water treatement? I seem to remember this because as they adopt this technology, people with fish tanks have to buy chemicals to neutralize it - can 't just left the water sit for a few days.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 2:40:12 PM EDT
most cities use some form of chlorine Buffalo water tastes slightly like a pool, which is ok because I've gotten used to it and don't notice it, but some days it tastes just like lake water
Originally Posted By prk:
Originally Posted By Guzzler: What is going on lately. In the last week I have been to 3 places of business (a resturant and 2 convience stores) where I have walked in and have been greated by the wonderful smell of chloramine gas!!! .....
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Isn't chloramine used in small quantities for water treatement? I seem to remember this because as they adopt this technology, people with fish tanks have to buy chemicals to neutralize it - can 't just left the water sit for a few days.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2002 2:42:04 PM EDT
Kills a lot of housewives each year, never hear husbands falling over from it!
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 3:16:19 PM EDT
If you have these two chemicals in your home, the local news will say you had "ingredients for chemical weapons" stored in your home when the ATF arrests you. That will be a hoot! What do I care if some illiterate hispanic is too stupid to understand how dangerous certain cleaning chemicals can be? This was covered on that other thread about Darwinism...
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 3:33:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sharky30: most cities use some form of chlorine Buffalo water tastes slightly like a pool, which is ok because I've gotten used to it and don't notice it, but some days it tastes just like lake water
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Then there's moose water, which tastes a lot like chicken. . . .
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 5:35:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: What do I care if some illiterate hispanic is too stupid to understand how dangerous certain cleaning chemicals can be? This was covered on that other thread about Darwinism...
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Gee thanks. What about us poor bastards that just happen to walk into this nightmare?!?! Fortunately the resturant had outdoor seating so I didn't have to endure. BTW how I found about this propblem first hand, was I staying at a friends house back in high school. I woke up in the morning, unable to breath (seriously gasping for air). I could just barely crawl to the window and open it. I ended up pushing my head through the window screen to get some fresh air. When I was able to regain my composure, I asked what the hell was his mom cleaning with? Ammonia and bleach was the answer. I just bitch slapped my friend and said "Weren't you paying attention in chemistry yesterday?? You can't mix Ammonia and chlorine bleach!!!!" Honestly, the day before my chemistry teacher gave us a lecture about this. My friend just freaked out when the light bulb went off. He went on a 20 minute diseratation to his mother about what not to mix around the house. Oh, I didn't have to pay or fix the screen. They took care of it. I will NEVER FORGET the smell of ammonia and chloring bleach when mixed!
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 7:40:27 PM EDT
Back in '77 I was working at Wynn Dixie supermarket. In the back room we had a small enclosed room that we had to enter to throw garbage down the shoot and into the trash dumpster. Well late one night I was cleaning up and had used kitty litter to clean up a spill of Wesson cooking oil or something. I also had an open bottle of bleach to throw away do to it being damaged. Needless to say the kitty litter and the bleach got mixed together when I tossed them down the shoot. A few minutes later I staggered out of that room and nobody was able to enter it again the entire night. That was some nasty s--t!
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 7:59:34 PM EDT
Tonight my wife and I were mixing some cleaning solution for a carpet steam cleaner. I look over and see her grab a bottle of Lysol With Bleach and attempt to pour it in to the rest of the cleaner. Of course, I freak out and she looks at me crazy. I pointed out on the bottle of carpet cleaner solution where it clearly states on the label "DO NOT MIX WITH BLEACH" is bright red lettering. She didn't believe me that Ammonia and Bleach create a toxic gas... Now I showed her this thread and she doesn't think I'm quite so crazy.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 8:19:24 PM EDT
I have a pool where I live, which means I have all the nasty chemicals to store. Read the girlfriend the riot act one day [argue] because she bought the muratic acid we need for balancing the pH (this is truly funny-if you pour muratic acid on the sidewalk, it starts smoking and eating away the concrete. Yet, you pour it into a pool that you're GOING TO GET INTO! Not immediately, though) and when she came home from the store, where did she store the acid? RIGHT ON F**KING TOP OF THE LIQUID CHLORINE! [stick] She's a licensed respiratory therapist, so I didn't have to explain very long the effects on your lungs of mixing the two. (correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the two mixed form the same gas they use in gas chambers?)
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 3:12:35 AM EDT
Since you mentioned muratic acid, here's a good one for the Fourth of July. Just be sure to be FAR away, and not have this happen next to anything you don't want to see get messed up.(cars, buildings, people, traffic signs and signals, light poles, animals, fencing, mailboxes, AC units, gardens, your bosses office, dog house, anything made of glass, inside of garage, etc, etc) 1 two liter coke bottle + A little muratic acid inside of said bottle + A wad of aluminum foil sealed inside with the acid = Big Smoky KABOOM!!!!! You can actually watch the two liter bottle swell up like a baloon being inflated, and when that plastic bottle lets go, you can hear it from many blocks away. Hell, you can feel the pressure wave from a good ways off, or so I'm told. Of course I would never construct such a device.
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 8:07:24 AM EDT
Yes the muratic acid, soda bottle, and tin foil will work. In the past I have treated and transported several patients who had eye injuries and finger lacerations. One was life flighted by helo to the level 1 trauma center. And these are now viewed as explosive devices..so the local pd will take appropriate action. Seems kids love to make em and then place them in the neighbors mailbox. The overpressurization of the bottle causes the mailbox to turn into shrapnel...thus the loss of fingers and eye. And yes, the chlorine and chemical cocktails have caused fires, inhalation problems, chemical burns and general bad things for the public, business owners, and those of us who respond to hazmat, fire, and ems calls. People store everything and anything improperly in their homes, garages, barns, outbuildings, vehicles, etc. And bad stuff happens when it mixes or is exposed to heat. And treating a 14 year old, who has just lost two fingers to a pipe bomb is no fun. be safe....
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