Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 4/26/2002 8:08:30 PM EDT
Saw the movie for the first time ever last night on TCM. Great film, btw. But what struck me is how sureal it must have been to be a farmer in the fields or a boy in London watching the dogfights overhead. To see those who bailed out, those that didn't quite make it and those who never stood a chance at all. Nothing like front row seats for a war...
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 8:18:05 PM EDT
lets not forget the fear of a bomber or fighter (or parts of..) hitting/crashing into your familly/house. and of course lots of .50 and 20mm gots to have a place to go!
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 8:18:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 8:55:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 9:02:41 PM EDT
I have always wondered ho much damage was done during an air battle by shit falling out of the sky. This could be returning antiaircraft fire that has missed its mark, air to air fire, and aircraft parts/ fuel. any one know of a source of info on this??
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 10:15:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By paterpk: I have always wondered ho much damage was done during an air battle by shit falling out of the sky. This could be returning antiaircraft fire that has missed its mark, air to air fire, and aircraft parts/ fuel. any one know of a source of info on this??
View Quote
Probably way too busy putting out fires and recovering survivors and bodies from wrecked buildings to collect this data. However logic would dictate LOTS. All kinds of crap probably fell on London.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 10:38:30 PM EDT
If Hermann Goering had continued the attacks on the RAF airfields, the Battle of Britain would have ended in a Nazi victory. Just as the RAF was about to go under, the Luftwaffe switched to targeting civilian centers and the London blitz was on. The RAF airfields were spared just in the nick of time! And the rest, as they say, is history! Eric The(CarryOn,OldChap)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 5:51:16 AM EDT
In fifth grade I did a project on what I thought of at the time as the most beautiful aircraft yet, the Supermarine Spitfire. I built a model and painted it, and also drew a "three angle" view poster. [img]216.219.216.110/supermarine/spitbca.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 6:11:29 AM EDT
Cool pic, [b]Jarhead_22[/b]! Monogram models used to have some very nice models of WWII aircraft you could put together and paint. The Spitfire and the Hawker Hurricane were my favorites. From the European theatre. Most of the models I put together were from the Pacific Theatre! And they were Navy/Marine fighters, divebombers, and torpedo planes. My all-time favorite was the Douglas SBD Dauntless dive bomber - simply for its role in the Battle of Midway! [img]http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/history/mdc/images/D4E-535495.jpg[/img] BTW, it had the lowest loss ratio for any carrier-based aircraft during the war. Not bad, eh? Does Monogram even make kits nowadays? Eric The(I'mGonnaGoBuyAKitToday!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 6:16:59 AM EDT
Now you guys are on a topic that I could discuss for days! I've read a voluminous number of books on WWII - especially the air war. Yes, ETH - the Dauntless dive bomber did do one bang-up job during the battle of Midway! I always felt bad when I read about the pilots of the Brewster Buffalo's that tried to go in low...none of 'em made it in, or out. (I've got my battles right, don't I?)
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 6:32:35 AM EDT
If you remember it was the attack of the Douglas Devestator torpedo planes that brought the Zeros down from their lofty perch. [img]http://216.219.216.110/douglas/omen.jpg[/img] They splashed every single Devestator of TS37 and left only a single survivor, an Ensign Gay, who clung to a seat cusion and was later rescued by the US Navy. He had a front row seat at the Battle of Midway! But with the Zeros busy taking out the courageous torpedo plane crews, there were none left to defend against the Dauntless dive bombers, which quickly sank, what? four aircraft carriers? The turning point of the war in the Pacific! You know if you had told every member of the flight crews of Torpedo Squadron 37 that by the late morning every one of them would be dead, save one, but that their sacrifice would cripple the Japanese Naval Air Arm [u]forever[/u], what do you think the odds would be that they would still have gone thorugh with their mission? [b]There were giants on the earth in those days![/b] Eric The(AndTheyWoreUSUniforms!GodBlessThemEveryon­e!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 6:33:46 AM EDT
Speaking of damage on the ground.... When my dad and his brother were kids in Holland durring the war they used to like to watch the dogfights over their town.... UNTIL......... One day an American P-38 was hot on the tail of a FW-190 ( from how he described it). The P-38 took a shot at the diving FW..... The rounds that missed ( the FW did go down) stitched the ground between my father and his brother... After that they stayed in the air raid shelter that my grandfather had built for the family.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 6:36:45 AM EDT
Didn't the Krauts call the P-38 Lightning, the 'fork-tailed devil'? Thanks, [b]Stormbringer[/b], that was a very interesting story. Glad your dad and uncle made it through the Maelstrom. Eric The(Happy)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 6:40:03 AM EDT
You're right ETH, it was the Devastators that went in low, and Ensign Gay did have a ring-side seat, floating on a seat cushion watching the battle. And yes - it was 4 carriers that went down, crippling the Japanese fleet for the remainder of the war (heck - forever!) (I still think there was a flight of Buffalo's that got shot up pretty badly too though. I'll re-check the books when I get home.)
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 6:47:56 AM EDT
Doesn't the P-51 deserve an honorable mention in this thread? I know it came along after the battle of Britain so the time frame is a little off. There's been a guy that still has one in flying condition that stops by the small airport in our town once or twice a year. Once while driving by, I saw it parked close to the control tower so I had the wife & kids wait with me until he warmed it up & took off. It wasn't long before he taxied down the runway and got the bird airborn. Josie & the daughters were wondering what was so cool to me about that plane. Then the air traffic controller came over the PA system and announced that the pilot wanted to do a high-speed flyover, on the deck & they'd cleared him to do so. He must've only been 100 feet or so off the ground and he came in [b]HOT[/b]! He had to be running WOT - they said he was running over 400mph. Imagine the terror in the hearts of our enemies - facing something that loud, that fast, with six .50 cal machine guns blazing... Awesome, piston driven aircraft.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 6:48:53 AM EDT
I believe the Buffulo's were land based on Midway and were shot down trying to provide CAP for the island.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 7:02:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: I believe the Buffulo's were land based on Midway and were shot down trying to provide CAP for the island.
View Quote
I believe you're exactly right! I've allowed myself to get a little rusty when it comes to this, so I guess I'll have to read up on it again. Who's going to be the first one to post the names of the 4 Japanese carriers that went down?
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 7:05:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2002 7:07:22 AM EDT by a3kid]
I will...
In the hour after about 0930, U.S. Navy planes from the carriers Hornet (CV-8), Enterprise (CV-6) and Yorktown (CV-5) made a series of attacks, initially by three squadrons of TBD torpedo planes that, despite nearly total losses, made no hits. The sacrifice of the TBDs did slow Japanese preparations for their own strike and disorganized the defending fighters. Then, at about 1025, everything changed. Three squadrons of SBD scout bombers, two from Enterprise and one from Yorktown, almost simultaneously dove on three of the four Japanese carriers, whose decks were crowded with fully armed and fueled planes that were just starting to take off. In a few minutes, [red]Akagi[/red], [red]Kaga[/red] and [red]Soryu[/red] were ablaze and out of action. Of the once-overwhelming Japanese carrier force, only [red]Hiryu[/red] remained operational. A few hours later, her planes crippled USS Yorktown. By the end of the day, though, U.S. carrier planes found and bombed Hiryu. Deprived of useful air cover, and after several hours of shocked indecision, Combined Fleet commander Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto called off the Midway operation and retreated. Six months after it began, the great Japanese Pacific War offensive was over.
View Quote
[url]http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/mid-4.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 7:37:45 AM EDT
Gentalmen thanks for the post. Lets not forget those that fought during WWII. They are dying at a very fast rate. When you see one of these hero's take the time and say thanks. It will mean the world to them. We owe them everything!
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 7:47:48 AM EDT
My Grandfather LOVED P38s. He was a top turret gun on a B24 Liberator (15th out of Italy) and a pair of P38s bailed them out when they was getting ripped by 6 Focke Wolfe 190s.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:00:51 AM EDT
I really don't know anything about aircraft, but what were the "Corsairs" that I've seen on Black Sheep Squadron? P-38s? P-51s?
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:08:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe: I really don't know anything about aircraft, but what were the "Corsairs" that I've seen on Black Sheep Squadron? P-38s? P-51s?
View Quote
F4AU Corsair
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:08:57 AM EDT
[b]F4U[/b] - Corsairs! You're welcome! Eric The(ModelingSOB)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:13:57 AM EDT
[img]http://www.vought.com/photos/images/0426_093.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.vought.com/photos/images/0426_085.jpg[/img] And, to show you what they looked like in color: [img]http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/images/vought_f4u_corsair.t.JPG[/img] Eric The(ModelingSOB)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:14:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2002 8:19:17 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: [b]F4U[/b] - Corsairs! You're welcome! Eric The(ModelingSOB)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Do a search for "Vought Corsair F4AU". [img]http://westwood.fortunecity.com/chanel/132/f4u_vought_corsair.jpg[/img] ...as flown by the Marines. The above is the F4AU-1 that came after and was used in Korea. IIRC, the F4U was the original Navy designation.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:31:41 AM EDT
Hmmm, [b]SteyrAUG[/b], there's not much on a F4AUs, but tons on F4Us: [url]http://216.219.216.110/vought/f4u.html[/url] [url]http://www.corsairgathering.com/gatheringmain.htm[/url] Are you certain you have the designation correct for a WWII aircraft? Eric The(Joking?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:41:40 AM EDT
SteyrAUG, my father-in-law (decessed)was a tail gunner in B-24 "Our Hobby II" out of Torreta Italy, 15th AF, 484 BG. Never said squat while alive, but we found out after he died that he flew 50 missions with 4 confirmed kills...the VFW (he did'nt even join) officer spoke at the funeral, they played taps and I swear there was a single jet flyover...
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:46:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: They splashed every single Devestator of TS37 and left only a single survivor, an Ensign Gay, who clung to a seat cusion and was later rescued by the US Navy. Eric The(AndTheyWoreUSUniforms!GodBlessThemEveryon­e!)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Actually he wasnt the only Devestator survivor to make it back. One of the land based Devestators also made it back to Midway...barely. All the other Devestators went down.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:58:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redpine: SteyrAUG, my father-in-law (decessed)was a tail gunner in B-24 "Our Hobby II" out of Torreta Italy, 15th AF, 484 BG. Never said squat while alive, but we found out after he died that he flew 50 missions with 4 confirmed kills...the VFW (he did'nt even join) officer spoke at the funeral, they played taps and I swear there was a single jet flyover...
View Quote
Wonder if they served together. Did he do any of the Ploesti Raids? And you might like this site... [url]http://www.frankambrose.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 9:02:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2002 9:07:27 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Hmmm, [b]SteyrAUG[/b], there's not much on a F4AUs, but tons on F4Us: [url]http://216.219.216.110/vought/f4u.html[/url] [url]http://www.corsairgathering.com/gatheringmain.htm[/url] Are you certain you have the designation correct for a WWII aircraft? Eric The(Joking?)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
From your link you are right, the AU-1 is korean War designation... "The AU-1 was produced solely for the US Marines during the height of the Korean War. Deliveries began in January 1952 and a total of 111 were supplied during the year. The AU-1 was powered by an R-2800-83W Double Wasp with a single stage supercharger, developing 2,300 hp (1,716.4 kW) for take off and 2,800 hp (2,089.6 kW) for War Emergency. Extra armor was added for protection from the small arms fire which would be encountered at the lower altitudes where the AU-1 would be working. It’s ground attack role was underlined by the statistics; max take-off weight was almost 10 tons (9071.9 kg) while the service ceiling was only 19,500 ft (5,943.6 m) and the maximum speed was a mere 238 mph (383 kph)! Ground attack required only enough speed to present a difficult target for ground fire and only enough altitude to properly aim it‘s weapons. The AU-1 was armed with 10 rockets or 4,000 lbs (1,814.4 kg) of bombs, in addition to four wing mounted 20 mm cannon with 230 rounds per gun. A fully armed AU was an awesome war machine!" God I hate being wrong...
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 9:31:26 AM EDT
Note to SteyrAUG- I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken! [:D] BTW, while the Navy was just about to 'land base' all of its Corsairs, due to the difficulty of landing aboard aircraft carriers, it was the British who finally worked out a method of landing the Corsair on their carriers in spite of the visibility problems caused by the long nose. Instead of the normal downwind-crosswind-final approach method, the British simply turned downwind, then made a slow, continuous curve which aligned the Corsair with the deck only at the last second before the aircraft touched down and trapped. This method allowed the pilot to keep the Landing Signals Officer in view right up to the moment the plane was over the fan-tail where the LSO gave the sign to either "cut" or make another attempt. [b][i]Voila[/i][/b], the Corsairs went back aboard! Just look and see how many wartime photos of the Corsair have them aboard carriers! Those plucky Brits still could teach the Yanks a thing or two! Eric The(TheBritsAlsoShowedUsYouCouldStopOilLeaksO­nWindshieldByWiringTopCowlingsClosed!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 9:41:57 AM EDT
Post from Atencio -
Actually he wasnt the only Devestator survivor to make it back. One of the land based Devestators also made it back to Midway...barely. All the other Devestators went down.
View Quote
Ensign Gay was the only survivor from the [i][b]USS Hornet's[/b][/i] Torpedo Squadron 8! Eric The(Saddened)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 10:02:35 AM EDT
[img]http://westwood.fortunecity.com/chanel/132/f4u_vought_corsair.jpg[/img] [size=4]THE BENT WING WIDOWMAKER![/size=4] The Japanese hated this plane because it would make a this TERRIBLE SCREAM like a BANSHEE when it was diving due to the inlets on the wings.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 10:14:59 AM EDT
Another Proud Lineage. P-51D Mustang [img]http://www.spitcrazy.com/Mustang-in-flight.jpg[/img] F-86 Sabre [img]http://www.fabulousrocketeers.com/images/336F86.jpg[/img] F-16 Block 50/52 [img]http://www.geocities.com/ArchAngelCD/f16pics/f16004.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 10:54:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Note to SteyrAUG- I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken! [:D]
View Quote
Nahhh, you've been consitently wrong on the whole Israel thing.
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: BTW, while the Navy was just about to 'land base' all of its Corsairs, due to the difficulty of landing aboard aircraft carriers, it was the British who finally worked out a method of landing the Corsair on their carriers in spite of the visibility problems caused by the long nose. Instead of the normal downwind-crosswind-final approach method, the British simply turned downwind, then made a slow, continuous curve which aligned the Corsair with the deck only at the last second before the aircraft touched down and trapped. This method allowed the pilot to keep the Landing Signals Officer in view right up to the moment the plane was over the fan-tail where the LSO gave the sign to either "cut" or make another attempt. [b][i]Voila[/i][/b], the Corsairs went back aboard! Just look and see how many wartime photos of the Corsair have them aboard carriers! Those plucky Brits still could teach the Yanks a thing or two! Eric The(TheBritsAlsoShowedUsYouCouldStopOilLeaksO­nWindshieldByWiringTopCowlingsClosed!)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
At least I did know this...
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 11:55:38 AM EDT
The P-51 Mustang has been said to be the most important weapon system of the war. The British of course were responsible for the initial orders allowing for it's production and for replacing the GM Allison engine with the Rolls Royce that allowed it to reach it's potential. Packard was given the prints/tooling to make the engine in numbers. The Corsair F4U was faster but was not deployed in the numbers before 1945 and probably had minimal effect on the outcome of the war.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 12:07:46 PM EDT
As I recall, the F4U was the designation for the fighters, and the AU1 us a postwar fighter-bomber version powered by a low altitude rated engine and with more hard points for ordnance. They looked pretty much the same. There were other designations for the F4U type built by Goodyear (FG1, FG2, etc.) One version was built with the R4360 engine to catch the Kamikaze's. The R2800 engine was on all the others, in different horsepower ratings. Enough rambling.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 12:15:57 PM EDT
I always wanted to fly a F6F Hellcat my self , its my favorite plane to use in online combat flight sims.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 1:18:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/27/2002 1:19:11 PM EDT by Benjamin0001]
Yeah I just noticed that the Speed rating on the Artist Drawing picture of the F-4U is rated at 238 Knots. That is wrong. Like the P-51 The plane could do around 350 to 400 Knots in a dive. Some were known to get to 450 Knots. Ben
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 3:08:20 PM EDT
Actually, it's correct, [b]Ben[/b], read the snippet from the website. This was a model that was used solely as a low level attack fighter bomber (hence, the 'A' in its designation). The 4FU that flew during WWII was a completely different version, engine-wise, and was one of the fastest prop planes in that conflict! Eric The(I'mNeverWrongAboutIsrael!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 3:31:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Brooks: The Corsair F4U was faster but was not deployed in the numbers before 1945 and probably had minimal effect on the outcome of the war.
View Quote
In the Pacific theater, the Corsair was far more significant than the Mustang. You tell any surviving Japanese pilot that the Corsair was less significant than the Mustang, they will laugh at you. The Mustangs saw some service in the Pacific, but not nearly as much as the Corsairs and the Hellcats. The Pacific theater was a Navy/Marine show moreso than an Army/Army Air Corps war.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 3:33:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Note to SteyrAUG- I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken! [:D]
View Quote
Nahhh, you've been consitently wrong on the whole Israel thing.
View Quote
You got that backwards.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 3:36:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: If you remember it was the attack of the Douglas Devestator torpedo planes that brought the Zeros down from their lofty perch. [img]http://216.219.216.110/douglas/omen.jpg[/img] They splashed every single Devestator of TS37 and left only a single survivor, an Ensign Gay, who clung to a seat cusion and was later rescued by the US Navy. He had a front row seat at the Battle of Midway!
View Quote
That was [b]Torpedo 8[/b], not 37 (I noticed that you corrected that later). BTW, I have 'Midway' on DVD. Great movie!
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 9:02:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Post from Atencio -
Actually he wasnt the only Devestator survivor to make it back. One of the land based Devestators also made it back to Midway...barely. All the other Devestators went down.
View Quote
Ensign Gay was the only survivor from the [i][b]USS Hornet's[/b][/i] Torpedo Squadron 8! Eric The(Saddened)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Yeah I knew what you meant. Slight mistake on my part about the planes. Often times people will say that Ensign Gay was the only survivor of VT-8 which is I pointed out not true. At Norfolk Naval Air Station VT-8 was split in half in order to begin transition to start using the TBF-1 Avenger. One half left with the Hornet, the other half after training went to Midway on the USS Saratoga. The half stationed on Midway were flying TBFs not Devestators. Rest of story is true though. Ensign Earnest and radioman Ferrier along with Gay were the only survivors of VT-8. Side note story. There were some American fliers who were shot down at Midway and survived only to be picked up out of the water by the Japanese, interrogated and then shot.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 9:16:42 AM EDT
Torpedo 8
View Quote
THE COFFIN SQUADRON! TO ETH, THANKS for the correction. Ben
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 10:04:21 AM EDT
My dad was 5 during the Korean war. He would sit with his friends and watch Sabres and MIG15s go at it. THey waould run for cover sometimes because of hot .50 cal raining down on them!
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 6:42:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: If you remember it was the attack of the Douglas Devestator torpedo planes that brought the Zeros down from their lofty perch. [img]http://216.219.216.110/douglas/omen.jpg[/img] They splashed every single Devestator of TS37 and left only a single survivor, an Ensign Gay, who clung to a seat cusion and was later rescued by the US Navy. He had a front row seat at the Battle of Midway! But with the Zeros busy taking out the courageous torpedo plane crews, there were none left to defend against the Dauntless dive bombers, which quickly sank, what? four aircraft carriers? The turning point of the war in the Pacific! You know if you had told every member of the flight crews of Torpedo Squadron 37 that by the late morning every one of them would be dead, save one, but that their sacrifice would cripple the Japanese Naval Air Arm [u]forever[/u], what do you think the odds would be that they would still have gone thorugh with their mission? [b]There were giants on the earth in those days![/b] Eric The(AndTheyWoreUSUniforms!GodBlessThemEveryon­e!)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Hun, They WERE Giants! For the record, the squadron of which you speak was Torpedo 8 from the USS HORNET. Squadron CO was a full blooded Cherokee named John C. Waldron. He along with all the men of his squadron were shot down by the Zeros save Ensign George Gay. Of the fifty one torpedo planes from the three American carriers that launched that day, only five returned. Not one torpedo hit their targets. Part of the problem was the slow speed of the planes and part was the slow speed of the torpedos themselves. Since the American aerial MK -13 torpedo would only do a bit over 30kts, the Jap carriers had but to turn their heels and get into a stern chase to run the torpedos out of fuel. As to whether or not they'd have gone...who can say for certain. Nobody expects to die in that situation. They had an idea that they were in real trouble before they launched. The TBD-1 Devastator was the only torpedo plane available to the Navy then...the TBFs would not be carrier qualified for some months to come...so they went. Brave men.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 6:44:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Didn't the Krauts call the P-38 Lightning, the 'fork-tailed devil'? Thanks, [b]Stormbringer[/b], that was a very interesting story. Glad your dad and uncle made it through the Maelstrom. Eric The(Happy)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Der Galbalschwanz Teufel (Or something like that!)
Top Top