[url=http://www.insidedenver.com/drmn/news/article/0,1299,DRMN_3_1111735,00.html]shooting[/url]

Also read the "AP UPDATE" Link to the right of the story text at the top.

Uh oh  there just went another reason to now ban Shotties in Cali. What ever happen to good ole stabbings ?
[V]

And this will keep happening until the arm the teachers!

[puke]

Arming the teacher would be the way to go but don't you think that at very least there should be a phone in every room. I know where I went to school there was only phone in certin rooms but there was places where someone could just start emptyin mags and across the building people could not hear what was going on and have no idea, at least they could pick up the phone and call so every one could be informed. Think about it kid enters school walks down hall takes out teacher in one room with a few rounds other teachers hear in near by rooms, what do that do? Stop teaching walk to the door and poke there head out POP POP. That makes less work for the shooter. But if the teachers knew what was going on or atleast told to say in the room that could be less deaths right there or at least make the shooter take more time to do what he wants to acomplish. I duno really its what needs to be done is arm the teachers just like the pizza men and airline crew. I duno.....

DIESEL

I thought that stuff only happened in the USA!

arming the teachers may help prevent higher numbers of casualties, but it won't stop the people from committing the crimes.

as for school shootings, these will continue to happen, regardless of the armed status of the educators, until America puts its collective foot down and says, "hell, no, we ain't gonna take this anymore."  we have to start disciplining our children, teaching them RIGHT from WRONG, showing them love and attention instead of the latest Barney flick.  America's parenting skills as a whole were flushed down the toilet years ago (something about hippies raising children strikes a nerve with me!).  

since unarmed teachers isn't the cause of the disease, but rather an ameliorating factor, arming them won't change a thing.  except maybe the casualty number.

[i]Risk factors for school violence
March 5, 2001
Web posted at: 5:34 p.m. EST (2234 GMT)

The Federal Bureau of Investigation compiled this list of risk factors in its two-year study of school shootings, which was completed in September 2000:

Questions for educators to ask about a troubled child
• What is the culture of the school and how is it affecting the child?

• Does he or she have problems expressing anger?

• Does he or she show an inordinate fascination with violent movies, books and music?

• Has he talked or written about committing violent acts?

Other traits listed
• Poor coping skills

• Access to weapons

• Signs of depression

• Drug and alcohol abuse

• Alienation

• Narcissism

• Inappropriate humor

• No limits to, or monitoring of, television and Internet use

The report also classifies levels and types of threats. Direct threats are clear: "I am going to place a bomb in the school's gym." Medium-level threats indicate possible place and time; high-level threats indicate practice with a weapon or surveillance of a victim.

Source: Federal Bureau of Investigation of 18 school shooting cases[/i]

Jebus I am glad this wasn't out when I was in high school I would of been arrested quicker then shit.

Other then the drug and alchol (of which I have consumer neither) I would of met every single one of those points... Damn thats scary.

BTW CNN has a big story about it...

HOLY CRAP.  What are gun laws like in Germany right now?  

I thought Germany was pretty strict!  You can't get a fishing license without taking classes first.  I was told by a German immigrant hunting and fishing is a priviledge only the rich can afford.

Shok

     
DEBATE IN PARLIAMENT
      The shooting coincided with a debate in the German parliament on Friday on tightening gun control legislation.
      Germany already has strict laws governing the right to own a gun but experts say the country is awash with illegal weapons smuggled into the country from eastern Europe and the Balkans.
      Those wishing to get hold of a hunting rifle must undergo checks which can last a year, while those wanting a gun for sport must be a member of a club and obtain a license from the police.
     
      NBC’s Andy Eckardt in Frankfurt, The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
     
Sounds pretty strict to me, and an obvious waste of time.

Tough gun laws fail to prevent German Columbine

[url]http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/4/26/124507[/url]

I think they have just passed or were about to pass an even stricter gun law in the Bundestag today. It would seem the massacre came at a tailor-made time.... [rolleyes]

Nobody I knew in Germany had guns. Legally, that is. But WW2 and Soviet stuff was everywhere, even back in the 1960s and 1970s. To become a hunter in Bavaria and in Baden-Wuerttemberg, one had to study and virtually memorise a two-inch thick green volume called (I think) "Die Kunst des Waidmanns" (The art of the hunter) many years ago, and be able to demonstrate such skills as how one slits open the belly of a hare to release the urine in the bladder and how to hobble a warthog (yep- that's what I said...). Very comprehensive, but also very arcane to the point of obscurity. As I recall, not all that much was mentioned about guns, but it's been a good twenty or more years since I last saw a copy.

Of course, that's just to become a hunter. The laws are designed to keep guns out of the hands of poor(er) people, and firmly in the hands of the rich and powerful. I can only imagine what the laws are like to get a CCW over there- unless one is a cop or bureaucrat in certain areas of govt., it's almost impossible to get one.

Hmmm- not much has changed re guns in Germany, essentially, since the 1930's, has it...

Erfurt, the scene of the crime. Well, I was shocked when I read that it happened, but Erfurt is a really run-down _dead_ industrial city in the former East Germany. So, in retrospect, I guess I'm not surprised, and here's why: There is NO tradition of individual, peaceful, legal, citizen gun ownership over there, unless it was in one of the now-disbanded factory workers' militias, and those guns were out-of-date Soviet stuff (PpSh, M91/30s, etc.) or guns for hunting for the rich Communist party members used on landed estates nearby.

Guns were forbidden fruit to most in society.

In both cases, any kind of guns were kept under strict central control, esp. after the workers' uprisings in 1953 against the Soviets.

And this massacre just happened in a Gymnasium, a college-track high school- the sons and daughters of some of the very people who lost their positions of leadership in the fall of communist E. Germany. Somehow, I bet unemployment, lost chances and status, resentment at the "Besserwessis" (W. German post-reunification carpetbaggers), as well as a general sense of loss of socialist entitlement, contributed a lot to this nutbar's rage against the machine. German child-rearing also changed in both Germanys after the war- the "anti-autoritaere Erziehung" (anti-authoritarian upbringing), a way to raise children w/o punishment or self-esteem-hurting restrictions [rolleyes], as promulgated by guilt-ridden liberals and hippies, became the norm for many, so as to somehow pinch off the aggressive tendencies fostered in the harsh traditional upbringing of German kids. Of course, with no limits set on kids since the 60s, no wonder they have lots of psychopaths running around Germany since then...

As a kid, I knew some real nutballs over there - and their parents were divorced, working all the time, drug and alcohol-addicted- too many kids wandering around with no direction. I was glad to go back to the States......

Oh, BTW, I'll bet an anti-foreign element comes into this somehow- E. Germany saw itself as guiltless when it came to the Holocaust,  (as communists, they were the "resistance") and was therefore ignorant about and uninterested in Germany's deeds in the Nazi era. W/ no guilt, young E. Germans have no compunction about blaming immigrants and asylum-seekers for all their troubles.

What a mess- I'm getting that same sick, pit-of-the-stomach feeling I had three years ago around this time....

(Edited cuz I can't type for s#*t...)

Well said! - my feelings exactly!

Tyler

No law ever devised prevented a criminal from breaking it.

The day all firearms are destroyed, LEO/Military and civilian, it will be the day the first drive by stoning will be reported.

Pointing the muzzle, forgive me the term, at gunowners is a cheap shot meant only to score political points with the unaware public who gets a false sense of security.

I hear you there. I can't remember how many days I spent in "in school suspention" (my schools version of torture, a bunch of 4' stools in a big room where you go sit all day instead of being in class. You get sore by the end of a full school day of sitting on a stool in the middle of the room) for doing things like bringing knives to school, telling bullies that "if they are going to pick on me they'd better kill me because if they don't i'll go home and get my deer rifle and kill you sniper style", brining and shooting bb guns in school, oh the list goes on. Woo, I'd be drugged up and in re-education camp if i pulled any of that stuff in one of todays high school.